Objection to planning, is this petty?

Ave Sodalis

Hi all,

So we've recently discovered that the owner of the field beside our house has gotten planning permission to build and has a digger in the field so I'm presuming he is going to use the planning permission. However, I have a few concerns about a house being built on the site. The main one is there is very few places in the field they can build that wouldn't block our stunning view. As a photographer, it would pain me as the field is between our house and the sunset and one of my favourite things to do it watch the sunset. A house, or even a garden would ruin this. I know that they're building due to the view which would be taken off us, but it is unusual as we live rural and most families live in clumps of houses (i.e my aunt lives on the otherside of us, my grandparents live across the road and similar all over the townland).

The other concern is I struggle very badly to deal with change and the idea of someone not only changing the view which I adore, but also building so close to the house so we'd then be sandwiched between two houses when we're supposed to be living in the countryside... it's causing me huge amounts of stress and upset. I know these are entirely my own issues though so I'm aware it probably won't count. I think if the house went up, it would cause panic attacks which again, are entirely my own issues.

The problem is I'm not the homeowner. I live with my mother who owns the house. I don't know if I, as a non-home owner, have any say at all. I know my mother isn't too fussed but my grandfather is as the house would be directly across the road from his. I haven't spoke to my aunt yet.

I guess what I'm asking is if I have a right to put in an objection and is it too petty to go ahead with?

Del2005

sup_dude wrote: »

Hi all,

So we've recently discovered that the owner of the field beside our house has gotten planning permission to build and has a digger in the field so I'm presuming he is going to use the planning permission. However, I have a few concerns about a house being built on the site. The main one is there is very few places in the field they can build that wouldn't block our stunning view. As a photographer, it would pain me as the field is between our house and the sunset and one of my favourite things to do it watch the sunset. A house, or even a garden would ruin this. I know that they're building due to the view which would be taken off us, but it is unusual as we live rural and most families live in clumps of houses (i.e my aunt lives on the otherside of us, my grandparents live across the road and similar all over the townland).

The other concern is I struggle very badly to deal with change and the idea of someone not only changing the view which I adore, but also building so close to the house so we'd then be sandwiched between two houses when we're supposed to be living in the countryside... it's causing me huge amounts of stress and upset. I know these are entirely my own issues though so I'm aware it probably won't count. I think if the house went up, it would cause panic attacks which again, are entirely my own issues.

The problem is I'm not the homeowner. I live with my mother who owns the house. I don't know if I, as a non-home owner, have any say at all. I know my mother isn't too fussed but my grandfather is as the house would be directly across the road from his. I haven't spoke to my aunt yet.

I guess what I'm asking is if I have a right to put in an objection and is it too petty to go ahead with?

Would it not have been better to object before they got the planning permission? Don't think that there's much you can do once the PP has been granted.

Kristopherus

Yes, you can object. In fact anyone can object. And to strengthen your case, you should ask all adjacent homeowners to object as well. Just check with the Local Authority that you are within the timeframe to object.

Ave Sodalis

Del2005 wrote:

Would it not have been better to object before they got the planning permission? Don't think that there's much you can do once the PP has been granted.

Sorry, I should say that I'm not sure whether planning permission has been gotten, however they seem to be making moves to do so (diggers, land surveyors etc). There's no sign up about planning permission that I can see. Sorry, shouldn't have said gotten as it may not be correct.

db

If permission has already been granted it is too late to make a submission on the application. Your mother may be able to appeal the decision to An Bord Pleanala, if it was granted within the last month, as an adjoining landowner.
If permission has not yet been granted and it is still within the timeframe for submissions you can make your objection for a fee. However, unless there is a planning issue with the application it will make little difference. You do not own the view and don't have any right to it.
You will be able to see if there is an application on the council website and the current status along with details of the application.

Ave Sodalis

db wrote:

However, unless there is a planning issue with the application it will make little difference. You do not own the view and don't have any right to it.

That's what I was worried about. However, is there any argument to be made for it lowering the value of our house, given part of what would be a key selling point would be taken away with the construction of the house?

db

No

BryanF

Op can you, confirm whether your issue is purely view related and not traffic safety for example ?

Ave Sodalis

BryanF wrote:

Op can you, confirm whether your issue is purely view related and not traffic safety for example ?

I haven't thought about traffic safety or the implementation of traffic, other than our road not being designed for much traffic use as it's a narrow country road with children on it. However, the current owner of the field drives it daily (as he uses our drive way to turn). I don't see it being a traffic problem for us personally as the house would be just before ours, except if they are exceptionally slow drivers.

BryanF

sup_dude wrote: »

I haven't thought about traffic safety or the implementation of traffic, other than our road not being designed for much traffic use as it's a narrow country road with children on it. However, the current owner of the field drives it daily (as he uses our drive way to turn). I don't see it being a traffic problem for us personally as the house would be just before ours, except if they are exceptionally slow drivers.

You have no right to a view. Best of luck

exaisle

db wrote: »

If permission has already been granted it is too late to make a submission on the application. Your mother may be able to appeal the decision to An Bord Pleanala, if it was granted within the last month, as an adjoining landowner.

I'm open to correction, but AFAIK if you haven't objected to the local authority during the initial planning process, you cannot take the case to Bord Pleanala.

Metric Tensor

exaisle wrote: »

I'm open to correction, but AFAIK if you haven't objected to the local authority during the initial planning process, you cannot take the case to Bord Pleanala.

That's not 100% true. In certain circumstances the adjoining land owner (not sure about occupier) can object even if they didn't make a submission.

I wouldn't call it petty but its certainly a bit precious.

The first fella to ever build a house would have been the last if he had the powers you're pining for here imo.

Metric Tensor

Firstly OP if he has machinery on site there's a very good chance you are already too late. You need to find out if he has planning permission to do something in the site. You can do this at your local planning office and sometimes on line. If he has already obtained planning permission (actual permission - not just a decision) it's too late.

If he hasn't gotten permission he shouldn't be doing work (except for certain exempted development) on the site.

No one is entitled to a view in planning law. (Your house is probably blocking someone else's view!)

If there is still an opportunity to make a submission or object your submission will only be effective if it identifies clear reasons why the development is contrary to good planning if the area. Have a read through your county development plan to see what the local authority consider to be proper development. You may need to hire a professional to guide you.

Also .... bear in mind this person may be your close neighbour in future.

exaisle

Kristopherus wrote: »

Yes, you can object. In fact anyone can object. And to strengthen your case, you should ask all adjacent homeowners to object as well. Just check with the Local Authority that you are within the timeframe to object.

*The following is on the basis that planning permission has not yet been granted.

Bad idea to involve anybody else. Ultimately, at Bord Pleanala level, planning permissions for single dwellings tend to be dealt with on the basis of whether they are within the terms of the Development Plan for the area concerned. It won't matter if one or a dozen people object, the process is the same.

In the OP's case, I think his reasons for objecting are not genuine planning concerns (and might be seen to be frivolous or vexatious) and unless he can show that the proposed development are outside the terms of the local County Development Plan, his objection will fail.

My advice would be to get in touch with the neighbour and ask what's going on before any objections need to be considered...

exaisle

Metric Tensor wrote: »

That's not 100% true. In certain circumstances the adjoining land owner (not sure about occupier) can object even if they didn't make a submission.

Yes....you are correct...thanks for the heads up. See Question 33 here: (Although the circumstances are quite restrictive but "occupiers" are included)

http://www.pleanala.ie/guide/appeal_guide.htm

the_pen_turner

if you are living there for a while( I presume you are) then you would have noticed the planning signs that had to be put up.
im sure you would have seen a digger digging percolation test pits and surveyors measuring out things.

I would guess that they are only starting the process

why don't you go out for a friendly chat and see what they are at

exaisle

sup_dude wrote: »

Hi all,

So we've recently discovered that the owner of the field beside our house has gotten planning permission to build and has a digger in the field <snip?

A digger in the field might be an indication that he's having a percolation test done which would be a precursor to lodging a planning application.

You can be damned sure that somebody would have noticed if he'd stuck the statutory notice up along the roadside....

My guess is that he hasn't yet applied. Go have a chat with him...

Ave Sodalis

BryanF wrote:

You have no right to a view. Best of luck

It's not just the view but also the serious issues I have with change. Change has caused panic attacks in the past, and to be honest, changing the security that is my home I don't think it something I can cope with

Deleted User wrote:

I wouldn't call it petty but its certainly a bit precious.

With respect, although I may agree with the view (although if you seen it, I would be very surprised if anyone wouldn't be upset about losing it), I think it's a bit unfair to call my problems with a change precious, given how much it affects my life and mental health.

Metric Tensor wrote:

No one is entitled to a view in planning law. (Your house is probably blocking someone else's view!)

I can assure you, my house doesn't block anyone's view

exaisle wrote:

show that the proposed development are outside the terms of the local County Development Plan, his objection will fail.

I've just read it and there is a part in there that states that a house can't be imposing, and can't block an attraction which this house would be doing.

the_pen_turner wrote:

if you are living there for a while( I presume you are) then you would have noticed the planning signs that had to be put up. im sure you would have seen a digger digging percolation test pits and surveyors measuring out things.

There are no signs up, but there is a digger and there were surveyors.

Addle

Your reasons are not legitimate for objection, but you can still make a submission, once planning has been applied for.
Your neighbour is probably just doing a percolation test now.
As they're not reasons to prevent grant, by making a submission, you may cause bad feeling with your neighbour.
Are you sure you want that?

Metric Tensor

Your mental health is very important OP but the local authority cannot be expected to manage development of the county to suit your personal situation.

Likewise the view from your house is not something you own or are entitled to and the local authority cannot manage the development of the county based on what you think is best to see out your window.

If there is a planning application you can make observations and objections based on anything you want but the posters here are trying to tell you what type of things the councils will ignore and what type of things they'll take on board.

An objection may also fail leaving you with a new neighbour who knows you tried to stop him living there. This might be even more damaging to your mental health? I think you need to prepare yourself for the possibility of a house next door to you now. The alternative if you have enough money is to buy a house on a large plot of land/farm where you would own the sites both sides of your house and then only you could build on them.

Ave Sodalis

Addle wrote:

Are you sure you want that?

It seems like a lose/lose situation to be honest. Even if the house was on the other side of the road and 100 meters further down, it would fine. He has land there too.

Also, I read the County Development plan and the rural building section is almost entirely about not imposing on scenic areas. This is something a house there would do both from our point of view and from the road.

Gumbo

sup_dude wrote: »

It seems like a lose/lose situation to be honest. Even if the house was on the other side of the road and 100 meters further down, it would fine. He has land there too.

Also, I read the County Development plan and the rural building section is almost entirely about not imposing on scenic areas. This is something a house there would do both from our point of view and from the road.

But if it house will be imposing, surely your house is imposing too????

OP, you are entitled to make the objection, but as your mental health (as you say) is at risk here, bear in mind that when your neighbour gets permission, he will know it was you and what you said. All objection are public and the application see it, your name, address will be published, and that's something that will change for the rest of your days there, your relationship with your neighbour.

Ave Sodalis

kceire wrote:

But if it house will be imposing, surely your house is imposing too????

It's hard to explain but there's few vantage points in the area. One of these is across the front of the field. It's quite easy to view the area from there without our house getting in the way.

I, to be quite honest, have no problem with a neighbour not liking me for any particular reason. I've never spoken to this particular neighbour, bar the odd wave if I happen to be outside while he's turning. You could also turn the question around and ask if it's worth upsetting the neighbours and spending a lot of money on building another house, when you've owned your own house not even a mile down the road for decades.

db

You may have spotted an opportunity for a reason to object there if planning has not yet been granted. One of the main restrictions on rural housing is that there must be a local need and part of it is that the applicant must have a housing need. If he already has a house up the road he may not get permission to build a new house but in this case the application would often be in the name of an older child.

Ave Sodalis

db wrote:

You may have spotted an opportunity for a reason to object there if planning has not yet been granted. One of the main restrictions on rural housing is that there must be a local need and part of it is that the applicant must have a housing need. If he already has a house up the road he may not get permission to build a new house but in this case the application would often be in the name of an older child.

He has no children so it's definitely not that.

Thanks to all those who are replying by the way!

Penn

Sorry sup_dude, but I don't think it's fair to object just because you get panic attacks from change and don't want their house to spoil the view.

Firstly, you don't know what the proposed house looks like. It might not be that imposing. You don't even know if they have planning or not.

Secondly, while you obviously have to try and protect your mental health, it's unfair to try and prevent someone else from building on a site they own because of it.

Thirdly, you don't even know if the proposed design will affect your view or to what extent. And as another poster said, your house is possibly even blocking the view on someone else.

Ultimately, you don't know enough about the proposed development to make a substantial complaint, and objecting just because of the view (no right to a view) and because of your own incapability to deal with big changes are simply not valid reasons to prevent someone building (or trying to build) on their own property providing the planners have determined (or will determine) that the development doesn't infringe on any of your rights relating to planning and is in keeping with the area.

Larbre34

Just ring the Council today, right now and find out. Because anything else is just speculation.

Either its still under consideration or it has been granted and the appeal period to An Bord Pleanála might still be open, or even that might have passed by now.

Or, he might have been turned down and he could be appealing to the Board himself.

Either way, the only grounds for objection are those in the planning regulations or the County Development plan specific to your County.

Generally the grounds for refusal are related to access, water issues, drainage or flooding issues, incompatible design or the location not being zoned appropriately.

Sorry, but your mental health and a bit of NIMBYism isnt good enough in itself.

Metric Tensor

I echo what is said above - you're a long way ahead of yourself here OP.

The first thing to do is find out if he has applied for or been granted anything on the site. Then based on this information you can decide what to do next.

Mahogany Gaspipe

sup_dude wrote: »

It seems like a lose/lose situation to be honest. Even if the house was on the other side of the road and 100 meters further down, it would fine. He has land there too.

Also, I read the County Development plan and the rural building section is almost entirely about not imposing on scenic areas. This is something a house there would do both from our point of view and from the road.

Well OP you asked the question is it petty?

The responses you've received here have been spot on and delivered in a kind voice.
Frankly, IMO the reasons that you are considering objecting to the development are laughable.

Ave Sodalis

Mahogany Gaspipe wrote:

The responses you've received here have been spot on and delivered in a kind voice. Frankly, IMO the reasons that you are considering objecting to the development are laughable.

I'm not understanding the purpose of this post. I didn't mention or object to the tone of people's posts. Any post is a direct reply to a question or point raised by other posters. I don't see the need for the attitude displayed in your post at all.

Metric Tensor

Hi sup_dude,

Most people who have worked in this area have experienced "frivolous" objections to sound developments. These objections are often by people who's only interest is that a new development might somehow make them feel that the area in which they live isn't as exclusive/nice/scenic/quiet as they would like.

You have said the main reason you don't want development is that you don't like change - to a lot of people this sounds like trouble-making and possible begrudgery.

I think that's why some people might be getting a little testy towards some of your posts.

I think you need to make your peace with the fact that change is inevitable in the built environment. In 50 years time your locality will be a very different place. The key is to object to developments that would genuinely injure the entire locality (rather than injure your own sensibilities) whilst taking a more pragmatic view towards relatively benign developments.

Ave Sodalis

Metric Tensor wrote:

I think that's why some people might be getting a little testy towards some of your posts.

To be fair, it has only been Gaspipe that hasn't offered any practical advice and only posted to ridicule.

Metric Tensor wrote:

You have said the main reason you don't want development is that you don't like change - to a lot of people this sounds like trouble-making and possible begrudgery.

Except it's a lot more than not liking change. It can, at times, cause a very extreme reaction. Considering the idea of a house being built has already caused distress and hyperventilation, I'm not entirely sure if I can cope at all with it actually being built.

Penn

sup_dude wrote: »

Except it's a lot more than not liking change. It can, at times, cause a very extreme reaction. Considering the idea of a house being built has already caused distress and hyperventilation, I'm not entirely sure if I can cope at all with it actually being built.

But with respect, sup_dude, your neighbour isn't at fault for that and shouldn't be restricted from building on his site (within the relevant planning laws) because of that. That's your problem which you need to deal with, with the aid of a professional if needs be.

Ave Sodalis

Penn wrote:

But with respect, sup_dude, your neighbour isn't at fault for that and shouldn't be restricted from building on his site (within the relevant planning laws) because of that. That's your problem which you need to deal with, with the aid of a professional if needs be.

Which I have already acknowledged. I was clarifying that my dislike of change isn't just a minor, trouble making irritation that I can just get over.

Penn

sup_dude wrote: »

Which I have already acknowledged. I was clarifying that my dislike of change isn't just a minor, trouble making irritation that I can just get over.

No I understand, but what I'm saying is that in terms of using it as a reason for objecting to your neighbour's development... it's not a reason.

esforum

sup_dude wrote: »

That's what I was worried about. However, is there any argument to be made for it lowering the value of our house, given part of what would be a key selling point would be taken away with the construction of the house?

wow! Im actually pretty amazed on your self centred view of this situation. When I bought my house there was a field behind it, now theres an entire estate. If I wanted the field to remain I should have bought the field.

So buy the field and every piece of land within visibility, problem solved.

sup_dude wrote: »

Which I have already acknowledged. I was clarifying that my dislike of change isn't just a minor, trouble making irritation that I can just get over.

Entirely your problem. If your that bad, stay inside and dont look out. On a more serious note, change happens every single day, literally. People get older, children are born, seasons come and go. How do you deal with all of lifes changes and is it only the rare changes or regular ones as well? This is not a phobia I have heard of before.

Metric Tensor

sup_dude wrote: »

It can, at times, cause a very extreme reaction.

I'm also not trying to belittle any issues you might have in this regard - I understand how debilitating and distressing things like this can be.

However, it would be wrong of the council to take this into account when deciding about your neighbour's planning. I hope you can see this?

At some stage a development will occur somewhere in your area which will negatively affect your view and impact your extreme reaction to change. Regardless of what your neighbour is doing it might be a good idea to start looking at systems for how you might deal with this. Even if your neighbour does nothing somebody will do something somewhere in your vicinity eventually.

Ave Sodalis

Metric Tensor wrote:

However, it would be wrong of the council to take this into account when deciding about your neighbour's planning. I hope you can see this?

I can of course see this. My original question was if it was taken into consideration, which has been answered. I was just pointing out that it wasn't just an annoyance, which may have affected the answer.

@esforum, if I wanted those kinda of replies, I would have posted in AH.

Ave Sodalis

For the record, I don't know if it makes any difference but it does state in our County Development Plan that houses can't impact on the scenic amenities of rural dwellers.

Nekarsulm

Sup dude, the only way to prevent development in the field next door, is to buy it from the owner.
You say he has land further down the road, if he got enough for "your" field, perhaps he would build there.
But in reality, he's looking permission there because that site has a nice view!
Do you see yourself living with your mum long term?
If you move away to work, for example, it's no harm to have a neighbour next door who could keep an eye on your mum, in winter weather, etc. And you do say that your Mum isn't too worried about the neighbour's plans.

Penn

sup_dude wrote: »

For the record, I don't know if it makes any difference but it does state in our County Development Plan that houses can't impact on the scenic amenities of rural dwellers.

To a point. However if it was that wide-reaching of a rule no one would be able to build anything that's in sight of someone else.

Again, you don't even know what the proposed house will look like, or if it actually will spoil your view.

To be honest, if you really want to object to the planning, you need to engage an architect, surveyor or engineer who will actually visit the site and check the planning and will let you know if you have a valid objection etc. I doubt you do, but it's the only way you'll know for sure.

Ave Sodalis

Nekarsulm wrote:

Sup dude, the only way to prevent development in the field next door, is to buy it from the owner. You say he has land further down the road, if he got enough for "your" field, perhaps he would build there. But in reality, he's looking permission there because that site has a nice view! Do you see yourself living with your mum long term? If you move away to work, for example, it's no harm to have a neighbour next door who could keep an eye on your mum, in winter weather, etc. And you do say that your Mum isn't too worried about the neighbour's plans.

It's not so much living with my mother long term, but home has been the safe haven ever since this change problem developed.
My mother is only 39, and our family do already live around us so I wouldn't think she needs an eye kept on her
I guess one of the main reason I absolutely adore living in the countryside is because of the room. Being surrounded on all sides by houses, I may as well be living in a town. I just don't see the point in building when the house you have owned for decades is less than a minutes drive away and a 5/10 minute walk.

Nekarsulm

Yeah I know, but the guy could be retiring and leaving the land & original house to a child.
I had a vision of your mum being in her 70's or 80's !
UNLESS he plans a skyscraper altogether, and blocks your natural light, then the view argument is not enough to stop his plans.

Penn

sup_dude wrote: »

I just don't see the point in building when the house you have owned for decades is less than a minutes drive away and a 5/10 minute walk.

His reasons are his own, and given the costs associated with planning & construction, I'm sure he's not just doing it for the sake of it. You don't see the point, but he obviously does.

Metric Tensor

sup_dude .... have you gone to the planning website of your local authority to check the status of the field next door yet?

This whole thread will continue to go around in circles until you do.

Mahogany Gaspipe

sup_dude wrote: »

To be fair, it has only been Gaspipe that hasn't offered any practical advice and only posted to ridicule.

You asked if putting in an objection for the reasons you outlined was petty and I gave you my answer.

In way of constructive advice you have received that too from many other posters. To be fair you're not even sure if planning has been granted.

My opinion is that planners would wholly disregard your objection. But that said, on the face of the way you describe the supposed planning applicant he may not be in a position to satisfy planning requirements himself leading to the application to be rejected by the CC.

Heed the good advice you have received from other posters and establish if planning permission has indeed been granted and to whom. We cant answer that for you.
You may be worrying over nothing.

Addle

You won't be objecting anyways, you'll be making a submission.

Angry bird

As previously advised, find out from the Council whether an application has been lodged or granted. If the answer is no to both, see can you have a chat with the relevant person re your concerns. Perhaps a compromise where the house is positioned so that it does not unduly impact on your views, and on your mums house residential amenity. If its still at concept stage, or before planning is lodged, then this is your best choice without pissing off a potential future neighbour. Re planning application stage and objection, rule of thumb is that no one is entitled to a view, unless it is specified in the relevant development plan but one is entitled to protection of their residential amenity. I've seen lots of completely off the wall objections and your concerns are reasonable enough but may not be relevant for planning purposes. Best of luck.

Gumbo

Addle wrote: »

You won't be objecting anyways, you'll be making a submission.

He doesn't want the house built, so he will be objecting to the proposed works.

Reputable Rog

I think this is a wind up thread. Sup Dude your objection makes no sense.
The fact that all your family are living in one offs all around you would indicate to me that rural and visual amenity of the area has probably been eroded anyway.
By the sounds of it you only want the area for yourself and your family .