‘Get in Gear’ – Amber before Green light

Juran

Should Ireland adopt the ‘amber flash before green’ at traffic lights? I drive mainly in an Irish city and find that drivers tend to be very slow at responding to a green light, and this can be frustrating when the green light last for only seconds (eg. side roads at major junctions). I was driving in the UK recently and found that drivers seem to respond and take off quicker as the amber light flashes once just before they get the green light … this gives you time to get in gear and be ready to respond quicker. I’ve seen this amber system in the US and other countries and always found it works really well (ok, I know with automatic cars in the US, they tend to take much quicker at traffic light than manual gear cars).

Thoughts anyone? I wonder have the county and city councils considered introducing it here? I do believe it would make a significant difference to traffic management in Irish cities.

colm_mcm

Once drivers here master red and green then maybe we could look at changing how amber works.

murph226

No.

seamus

Change are aimed at solving problems. What problem exactly would this save? Someone who is not in gear and prepared is going to kiss an amber just like they miss a green.

All I can see happening is:

- People launching themselves into junctions without looking, causing accidents with red light breakers coming from the right.

- People starting to roll when the light goes amber

- People sitting on the horn when a driver doesn't immediately take off from the green like a rocket.

Juran

The problem is people who don't take off when they get a green light, they are fumbling with the gear stick or scratching their head, and when they do manage to take off the light is turning amber / red ... which means the cars behind him miss the green light. It happens all the time when its a short green light.

bazz26

Would be a disaster imo. Driver at one side takes off early as soon as the lights hit amber while the red light breaker at the other side doesn't stop when they should.

sonny.knowles

Juran wrote: »

The problem is people who don't take off when they get a green light, they are fumbling with the gear stick or scratching their head, and when they do manage to take off the light is turning amber / red ... which means the cars behind him miss the green light. It happens all the time when its a short green light.

Not sure people should be 'taking off when they get a green light' - there is usually one or more cars or cyclists speeding through on an amber before it turns red. At least let them check that the road is clear.

Youngblood.III

No...look up Russian driving on YouTube

Kristopherus

bazz26 wrote: »

Would be a disaster imo. Driver at one side takes off early as soon as the lights hit amber while the red light breaker at the other side doesn't stop when they should.

Tough sh*t on the light breaker. They are then totally at fault.

blackbox

No.

I see a lot of people in the UK moving off before the light goes green.

jimgoose

Dragster-style transbrakes and linelocks would solve this urgent problem in a much more effective and fun way.

sonny.knowles

Kristopherus wrote: »

Tough sh*t on the light breaker. They are then totally at fault.

Tell that to a Garda after an accident and you'll ge done for dangerous driving.

bazz26

Kristopherus wrote: »

Tough sh*t on the light breaker. They are then totally at fault.

Little comfort after a life changing injury as a result of it.

Cookie_Monster

or just pay attention to what is going on around you so you are aware the light is likely to turn green and have the car in gear already...
apply a bit of common sense and you don't even need a rule.

jimgoose

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

or just pay attention to what is going on around you so you are aware the light is likely to turn green and have the car in gear already...
apply a bit of common sense and you don't even need a rule.

Can't you understand that some people need a colour-change to warn them that the colour is about to change?? For safety an' shizzit.

Del2005

Juran wrote: »

Should Ireland adopt the ‘amber flash before green’ at traffic lights? I drive mainly in an Irish city and find that drivers tend to be very slow at responding to a green light, and this can be frustrating when the green light last for only seconds (eg. side roads at major junctions). I was driving in the UK recently and found that drivers seem to respond and take off quicker as the amber light flashes once just before they get the green light … this gives you time to get in gear and be ready to respond quicker. I’ve seen this amber system in the US and other countries and always found it works really well (ok, I know with automatic cars in the US, they tend to take much quicker at traffic light than manual gear cars).

Thoughts anyone? I wonder have the county and city councils considered introducing it here? I do believe it would make a significant difference to traffic management in Irish cities.

Wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference. The people who dawdle will always dawdle and nothing will make them move any faster.

At the vast majority of traffic lights it easy enough to see the other lights and be ready to go when they start turning amber.

corks finest

Juran wrote: »

Should Ireland adopt the ‘amber flash before green’ at traffic lights? I drive mainly in an Irish city and find that drivers tend to be very slow at responding to a green light, and this can be frustrating when the green light last for only seconds (eg. side roads at major junctions). I was driving in the UK recently and found that drivers seem to respond and take off quicker as the amber light flashes once just before they get the green light … this gives you time to get in gear and be ready to respond quicker. I’ve seen this amber system in the US and other countries and always found it works really well (ok, I know with automatic cars in the US, they tend to take much quicker at traffic light than manual gear cars).

Thoughts anyone? I wonder have the county and city councils considered introducing it here? I do believe it would make a significant difference to traffic management in Irish cities.

Agree totally,living in dilly dally land here,half drivers are on the phone,doing make up etc,no Gardai on roads,L drivers driving un-accompanied,parking on paths ,especially near schools,so expecting drivers in Ireland to actually go on time at lights/junctions is a no,no

ironclaw

I was always thought when learning to be in gear if first at the lights. Zero danger of popping the clutch and going into the back of someone, so I see no issues. Also means you are ready to go once you drop the handbrake. That and watching the light sequence.

The short answer is, the vast majority of drivers are very unaware of what is going on. Each journey is genuinely terrifying to them and we just have to accommodate them as best we can.

Special Circumstances

Del2005 wrote: »

The people who dawdle will always dawdle and nothing will make them move any faster.

Nail on the head.

ironclaw wrote: »

The short answer is, the vast majority of drivers are very unaware of what is going on.

Passengers in the driving seat, passive vegetables.

Automatic cars with a bit of power would help a lot of people, but it's the humans that are the real limiting factor here. Less people on the roads or driverless cars with all sorts of flow control etc.

In the UK orange is treated as green so it makes no difference really. If you don't move on orange you are holding people up and get blown out of it.

Juran

If the majority think its a 'No' ... then we should have TV adverts about traffic flow at the lights, like the ones we see about how to use a roundabout, or a motorway fast lane, etc..

H3llR4iser

ironclaw wrote: »

I was always thought when learning to be in gear if first at the lights. Zero danger of popping the clutch and going into the back of someone, so I see no issues. Also means you are ready to go once you drop the handbrake. That and watching the light sequence.

I know a few learners who were instructed that absolutely, in any circumstances, they need to put the car in neutral at the lights; Even if they're the very first car. It fits in well with the abysmal standards of driving instructors I've seen around, especially in the Cork area - which to me, and many if not all of the non-Corkonian Irish people I know, seems like having the highest share of slow, distracted, incompetent drivers on the island. Not to mention the amazing amount of "L" plates with just the driver in the car.

ironclaw wrote: »

The short answer is, the vast majority of drivers are very unaware of what is going on. Each journey is genuinely terrifying to them and we just have to accommodate them as best we can.

Nail on the head - however the question should be raised about these people and why they are allowed on the roads. We're talking about failing to live up to very, very, very low minimum standards here - essentially, being aware of what's happening around you.

jimgoose

ironclaw wrote: »

I was always thought when learning to be in gear if first at the lights. Zero danger of popping the clutch and going into the back of someone, so I see no issues. Also means you are ready to go once you drop the handbrake. That and watching the light sequence.

The short answer is, the vast majority of drivers are very unaware of what is going on. Each journey is genuinely terrifying to them and we just have to accommodate them as best we can.

Correct. Stop-in-gear, handbrake, select first, cover service brake with clutch down.

Skylinehead

Kristopherus wrote: »

Tough sh*t on the light breaker. They are then totally at fault.

They'd both be at fault.

YbFocus

I love the roadworks ones with the built in timer, you can do wrc stage starts with them
Great fun

Del2005

Kristopherus wrote: »

Tough sh*t on the light breaker. They are then totally at fault.

Green means proceed with caution, so if you are involved in a collision at a junction where you have a green light both drivers are at fault.

dr.fuzzenstein

jimgoose wrote: »

Correct. Stop-in-gear, handbrake, select first, cover service brake with clutch down.

Almost. Here's the correct procedure:

Stationary with the engine idling, while in neutral you press the accelerator and set your RPM, in some vehicles you will not need to do this as an RPM is already set, you then select drive and engage the sport or sport plus setting, apply both the accelerator and the brakes, quickly release the brake pedal and you're off.

Personally, I wouldn't mind a yellow before green. It seems to work in every other country on the planet without major chaos or carnage. I remember it from Germany. I also remember a complete lack of catastrophic car accidents because people cannot hack it.
C'mon Ireland, surely this is not beyond the grasp of most people here? I lived here 20 years and most people I meet seem to be fairly smart and switched on. You're giving yourself too little credit

Del2005 wrote: »

Green means proceed with caution, so if you are involved in a collision at a junction where you have a green light both drivers are at fault.

If the other guy broke a light I'd be at fault? Poppycock. I'd like to see example cases. One could say the same about every single accident. The argument would be that the other guy broke a light/disobeyed a sign/tore out blind from a sidestreet/switched lane without looking I should have been prepared for them and if they run into me, I would have to be partially responsible. Nonsense. I can safely say not a single case of a red light runner not getting full blame will be found in the history of the state.

Terrontress

Do auto stop/starts need you to be in neutral with the foot off the clutch? I drove one on hire this summer and I think it required something I wasn't used to for it to cut out. I was definitely taught to sit at the lights with the car in first and the clutch depressed so that the driving examiner wouldn't mark me down for hesitation when the lights went green.

slimjimmc

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Personally, I wouldn't mind a yellow before green. It seems to work in every other country on the planet without major chaos or carnage.

France, Italy and some US states go straight from red to green with no intermediate amber, just like here.

dr.fuzzenstein

slimjimmc wrote: »

France, Italy and some US states go straight from red to green with no intermediate amber, just like here.

All in all not a huge issue. Personally I think it wakes people up and gets them in gear, while a lot of people think it would lead to unprecedented carnage at Irish intersections. Nah.

visual

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Almost. Here's the correct procedure:

Stationary with the engine idling, while in neutral you press the accelerator and set your RPM, in some vehicles you will not need to do this as an RPM is already set, you then select drive and engage the sport or sport plus setting, apply both the accelerator and the brakes, quickly release the brake pedal and you're off.

Personally, I wouldn't mind a yellow before green. It seems to work in every other country on the planet without major chaos or carnage. I remember it from Germany. I also remember a complete lack of catastrophic car accidents because people cannot hack it.
C'mon Ireland, surely this is not beyond the grasp of most people here? I lived here 20 years and most people I meet seem to be fairly smart and switched on. You're giving yourself too little credit



If the other guy broke a light I'd be at fault? Poppycock. I'd like to see example cases. One could say the same about every single accident. The argument would be that the other guy broke a light/disobeyed a sign/tore out blind from a sidestreet/switched lane without looking I should have been prepared for them and if they run into me, I would have to be partially responsible. Nonsense. I can safely say not a single case of a red light runner not getting full blame will be found in the history of the state.

Green light is to proceed with caution it is not right of way. While red is compulsory stop.

Take from that what you will.

Mint Sauce

With all the rollers creeping forward before the lights turn green, and the red light breakers around the country, having amber before green, would only lead to disaster.

dr.fuzzenstein

Mint Sauce wrote: »

With all the rollers creeping forward before the lights turn green, and the red light breakers around the country, having amber before green, would only lead to disaster.

Well, it is true, red light breaking in Germany is taken very seriously, with some quite steep fines, points, bans and mandatory retraining. It is true, the "no more than 5-6 cars after red" rule would have to be gotten rid of.
I concede that point and if yellow is not implemented, it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. But if some cnut hit me after him/her breaking a red light, it would be a cold day in hell before I concede any liability.

ianobrien

Well, all I'm saying is that if I am first in the queue at the lights, and they go green, I often appear to dawdle away after 2 or 3 seconds. I may appear that I'm not paying attention but there are so many "red light runners" that I wait that extra time.

This goes back a few years ago when early one morning (2am early) I was going driving through suburbia. I came to a traffic light that was red for me, so I stopped. As there was nobody about, the mind started to wander and i never copped immediately that the light had gone green. It then registered that the light had gone green, so as I was putting the car into gear, somebody motored across the junction from the right hand side, running the red light. If I had gone when the light had gone green, he was in the door to me. Thus, since then, I always give it a second or three before moving.

MarkAnthony

ianobrien wrote: »

Well, all I'm saying is that if I am first in the queue at the lights, and they go green, I often appear to dawdle away after 2 or 3 seconds. I may appear that I'm not paying attention but there are so many "red light runners" that I wait that extra time.

This goes back a few years ago when early one morning (2am early) I was going driving through suburbia. I came to a traffic light that was red for me, so I stopped. As there was nobody about, the mind started to wander and i never copped immediately that the light had gone green. It then registered that the light had gone green, so as I was putting the car into gear, somebody motored across the junction from the right hand side, running the red light. If I had gone when the light had gone green, he was in the door to me. Thus, since then, I always give it a second or three before moving.

I dont like these so you were doing x posts but in this case...

So you weren't paying attention and the solution is to hang about at the lights? I grant you it's more likely that an idiot will break the red directly after it was amber but it's also possible an artic comes hurtling through at the time you set off, where as going on green would have saved you.

The trick correct procedure is simple. Check the junction is clear and go on green.

It annoys me that a good number of traffic jams are created by people not on the ball at lights, not indicating in good time and not allowing traffic around them to flow. The majority of these people (generally a bit older) think they're great drivers.

As with all these proposed changes - there is no point changing anything until the current laws are enforced. It's not the rules that are an issue here it's enforcement.

dr.fuzzenstein

ianobrien wrote: »

Well, all I'm saying is that if I am first in the queue at the lights, and they go green, I often appear to dawdle away after 2 or 3 seconds. I may appear that I'm not paying attention but there are so many "red light runners" that I wait that extra time.

This goes back a few years ago when early one morning (2am early) I was going driving through suburbia. I came to a traffic light that was red for me, so I stopped. As there was nobody about, the mind started to wander and i never copped immediately that the light had gone green. It then registered that the light had gone green, so as I was putting the car into gear, somebody motored across the junction from the right hand side, running the red light. If I had gone when the light had gone green, he was in the door to me. Thus, since then, I always give it a second or three before moving.

So you're on an automatic timer? I don't think it's good road safety practice to look for the green, go "ok, 1..2..3..go" and then dawdle off whilst looking straight ahead.
What about, erm, you know, it's only a suggestion, ahhm, paying attention not only to the light, but also cars breaking the light? It's called being aware of your surroundings and I really hope it'll catch on on Irish roads one day. :P:cool:

Zcott

Northerner here, where we have the amber light before it goes green. I prefer it, because it means when I'm stopped in traffic I'm not sitting there with my foot on the clutch. Handbrake on, car in neutral...ready to go when the Amber light comes on. If I drove an automatic it wouldn't bother me but driving a manual I don't want to sit on the clutch if I don't have to.

jimgoose

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

So you're on an automatic timer? I don't think it's good road safety practice to look for the green, go "ok, 1..2..3..go" and then dawdle off whilst looking straight ahead.
What about, erm, you know, it's only a suggestion, ahhm, paying attention not only to the light, but also cars breaking the light? It's called being aware of your surroundings and I really hope it'll catch on on Irish roads one day. :P:cool:

I fear a "stage" amber will only turn Doris in her Yaris into the next Tony Schumacher. :pac:

ianobrien

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

So you're on an automatic timer? I don't think it's good road safety practice to look for the green, go "ok, 1..2..3..go" and then dawdle off whilst looking straight ahead.
What about, erm, you know, it's only a suggestion, ahhm, paying attention not only to the light, but also cars breaking the light? It's called being aware of your surroundings and I really hope it'll catch on on Irish roads one day. :P:cool:

I never said that I look straight ahead only.

I know it might get peoples back up but that's the way I do it now due to the number of red light runners. I guess other people are doing the same.

Edit, Im not looking to pick an argument but that's the way I do it. It may not be correct or the most time efficient, but unless the numbers of red light runners drop, I won't be changing. If you don't agree, fair enough I accept that we will agree to disagree.

Zubeneschamali

Terrontress wrote: »

I was definitely taught to sit at the lights with the car in first and the clutch depressed so that the driving examiner wouldn't mark me down for hesitation when the lights went green.

The do indeed seem to be teaching that these days. Back in my time, they taught us to sit in neutral with the handbrake on, pay attention, and engage 1st just before the lights go green, which does have a risk as a learner that you'll be caught napping by the green light, panic, stall etc...

But it's 2nd nature to me at this stage.

savagethegoat

I guess being a clairvoyant would help in engaging gear just before the light changed?

dr.fuzzenstein

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

The do indeed seem to be teaching that these days. Back in my time, they taught us to sit in neutral with the handbrake on, pay attention, and engage 1st just before the lights go green, which does have a risk as a learner that you'll be caught napping by the green light, panic, stall etc...

But it's 2nd nature to me at this stage.

You will see older drivers always wrestle with the handbrake when the lights turn green, they would have been told take car out of gear and wrench the handbrake up as far as she'll go. Just watch for the handbrake shimmy. You will notice the driver and car rocking slightly from side to side.
Hence the 5 second delay.

visual

savagethegoat wrote: »

I guess being a clairvoyant would help in engaging gear just before the light changed?

No need to be clairvoyant if your paying attention to your surroundings. Plenty of clues lights are about to change

walus

Personally I think that changing the light system is not going to help much to the traffic flow. In my experience 80% of drivers I come across on the roads drive as if they where not in the car but instead were sitting in their living room in front of the fire. The lack of concentration, poor decision making and not obeying the road rules and regulations is totally prevalent. As a non-irish national I went through a driving school that other than obvious theory demanded to do 24 hours of driving with instructor before one attempted an exam. Other than safe driving they put a particular emphasis on allowing other users of the road to drive efficiently. That meant moving off the light swiftly, leaving enough space for them to go straight when you turn at the junction, driving close to the allowed maximum speed in the given road and weather conditions (driving 55 not 40 km/h in 60 km/h zone) etc. Basically they taught that a drivers responsibility is to drive safe and unselfish and letting others to do the same.
What I have seen in Ireland over the past 10 years is shambolic and I would blame a lack of proper training for this. Half the drivers here would not pass the test in my country as other than knowing the road signs they do not present any skill of efficient driving and sharing the road properly. What saves this country from carnage is the sluggishness and driving slow that a lot of people entertain here. Why on earth everyone else needs to be paying for this with his/her own time and money? These drivers should not be out on the road there in the first place. A proper training and testing should be mandatory. It is anything but that now.

NiallBoo

Waiting in first with my hand waiting in the hand-brake is how I was taught.
It's much, much quicker.

I'll only ever not do this if it's obvious that I'm going to be waiting so long that I should turn off the engine.

visual

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

You will see older drivers always wrestle with the handbrake when the lights turn green, they would have been told take car out of gear and wrench the handbrake up as far as she'll go. Just watch for the handbrake shimmy. You will notice the driver and car rocking slightly from side to side.
Hence the 5 second delay.

The correct way to drive is when stopped put car in neutral apply handbrake. It is part of your driving test as is being prepared to take off as lights turn green.

What your failing to point out is the surprise some drivers have when lights go green and then only start preparing to take off. After they finished staring into space or playing with radio or phone. Sometime it takes a beep of a horn to get them back into reality and then they take off blindly.

MarkAnthony

visual wrote: »

The correct way to drive is when stopped put car in neutral apply handbrake. It is part of your driving test as is being prepared to take off as lights turn green.

What your failing to point out is the surprise some drivers have when lights go green and then only start preparing to take off. After they finished staring into space or playing with radio or phone. Sometime it takes a beep of a horn to get them back into reality and then they take off blindly.

That's the way I did it on my first driving test which I failed due to lack of progress. Probably not down to that particular thing. I got a new instructor who asked me what on earth I was doing sitting number 2 in the queue at the lights in neutral. If 1 2 or 3 stay in first he told me. Did this on my second test along with a number of other fixes which made life much easier and sailed through the test.

visual

MarkAnthony wrote: »

That's the way I did it on my first driving test which I failed due to lack of progress. Probably not down to that particular thing. I got a new instructor who asked me what on earth I was doing sitting number 2 in the queue at the lights in neutral. If 1 2 or 3 stay in first he told me. Did this on my second test along with a number of other fixes which made life much easier and sailed through the test.

Mother of God the driving instructors are very poor and seem to be getting worse.

The basics

Stop at Red light put in neutral hand brake on.
Watch other side of traffic lights notice cars starting to come to a stop and or amber light for other flow of traffic. Clutch, gear 1, hand on hand brake anticipate when green for you.clutch up to biting point little of acceleration pedal, lights change hand brake off away you go.

No need to be in gear for 2 or 3 mins while at Red light. Plus more importantly at lights pedestrian often cross don't want to be balancing car on clutch with people walking inches from your front bumper.

MarkAnthony

visual wrote: »

Mother of God the driving instructors are very poor and seem to be getting worse.

The basics

Stop at Red light put in neutral hand brake on.
Watch other side of traffic lights notice cars starting to come to a stop and or amber light for other flow of traffic. Clutch, gear 1, hand on hand brake anticipate when green for you.clutch up to biting point little of acceleration pedal, lights change hand brake off away you go.

No need to be in gear for 2 or 3 mins while at Red light. Plus more importantly at lights pedestrian often cross don't want to be balancing car on clutch with people walking inches from your front bumper.

My point was, if you can't do the above, stay in gear. If you can't do that take a bus. I don't really see a problem having the clutch depressed if the handbrake is on. If you let off the clutch the car isn't going very far but point taken from an absolute safety point of view.

Zubeneschamali

visual wrote: »

The correct way to drive is when stopped put car in neutral apply handbrake. It is part of your driving test as is being prepared to take off as lights turn green.

As has been explained in the thread, that is not how it is taught or tested today.

30 years ago, yes, but not any more. I don't know when they changed.

Special Circumstances

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

As has been explained in the thread, that is not how it is taught or tested today.

30 years ago, yes, but not any more. I don't know when they changed.

Roundabout the same time some l@nger started instructing people to indicate right when in the left lane and going straight ahead...