what do i need to do to see abs

GERMAN ROCKS

ok according to some online calculator my bodyfat is 23%. One could never see my abs as they are always covered in a layer of fat. I have been going to the gym now with two years and never worked abs. Was always on a "bulk" and build up a good chest, back, legs and arms (with just fair shoulders). Want to work a bit now on getting the abs. currently on a deficit with a week but what do I do next.

do I need to do workouts to build abs?
do I need to do workouts to lose fat in order to see abs?
another retarded question- do you need to build abs in order to see them and get a six pack or can anyone get a sixpack.

So basically what do I need to start doing. any recommendations on exercises how often etc?

seamus

Ab-focussed training will give you a little more sculpting and strength. But you won't see abs. It's all about the body fat. For a man, you'll usually need to get your bodyfat down to 10% or less to get the six-pack look.

Online calculators for your bodyfat are a load of nonsense, go get properly measured and then find out how to cut body fat through diet.

Alf Veedersane

It's largely going to be down to diet.

Clean it up and run a deficit for a sustained period of time.

There are no specific workouts, per se, but adding in some interval type training might be an idea

MightyMandarin

GERMAN ROCKS wrote: »

ok according to some online calculator my bodyfat is 23%. One could never see my abs as they are always covered in a layer of fat. I have been going to the gym now with two years and never worked abs. Was always on a "bulk" and build up a good chest, back, legs and arms (with just fair shoulders). Want to work a bit now on getting the abs. currently on a deficit with a week but what do I do next.

do I need to do workouts to build abs?
do I need to do workouts to lose fat in order to see abs?
another retarded question- do you need to build abs in order to see them and get a six pack or can anyone get a sixpack.

So basically what do I need to start doing. any recommendations on exercises how often etc?

Abs are like any muscle which grows when you train them and give them enough protein and energy to grow. Yes, lads can have a 'six pack' with a low bf% without working them, but they certainly become more visible when they're worked directly.

Ideally, you should've worked them on your bulk like any other body part but if you get lean enough -in or around 10% should suffice- then you'll see them.

Any ab exercises should work but I personally like decline weighted sit ups, leg raises and planks.

Even if it's purely for aesthetic purposes, you should always try to get a stronger core; it'll never be a disadvantage in life or in lifting.

colossus-x

Your problem is you are taking this 'bulk' thing too seriously.

Whenever you read up about bulking they say that you need an excess of calories.

This idea is totally ridiculous. The amount of calories you need is exactly the amount of calories you need and no more than that.

If you consume excess calories all that will happen is you will put on fat and the first place that will go on is on your belly, covering up your abs.

If your body needs 'extra calories' to grow you body will use the fat on your belly as those calories and you will grow. It makes no difference if your body uses those 'extra calories' from food you eat or if it takes it from the fat that is on your belly already.

Ripped people cannot rely on body fat for calories so they have to make sure they are getting enough in their diet. You don't have this problem.

Mellor

At this point its working or not working is not the issue. Sure it might make a small difference, but the bf% is the real decider. At 23%* body fat, you have a decent about of fat to lose before they are visible. That's going to be mostly down to diet.




*Online calculators are fairly inaccurate, but it doesn't matter at this stage. Whether you are actually 18%, 23%, or 27%. The target and the approach to get there is the same.

FISMA.

diet, diet, and more diet...

Transform

sort your diet out, buy a scale, start recording everything (yes its a pain in the bass), stop leaving out what you do at weekends, do some bloody cardio/metcons, learn there is a point where strong is strong enough if the excess fat is holding you back

Blacktie.

Your problem is you are taking this 'bulk' thing too seriously.

Whenever you read up about bulking they say that you need an excess of calories.

This idea is totally ridiculous. The amount of calories you need is exactly the amount of calories you need and no more than that.

If you consume excess calories all that will happen is you will put on fat and the first place that will go on is on your belly, covering up your abs.

If your body needs 'extra calories' to grow you body will use the fat on your belly as those calories and you will grow. It makes no difference if your body uses those 'extra calories' from food you eat or if it takes it from the fat that is on your belly already.

Ripped people cannot rely on body fat for calories so they have to make sure they are getting enough in their diet. You don't have this problem.

Please enlighten me how fat people convert their bodyfat into protein.

Transform

colossus-x wrote: »

Your problem is you are taking this 'bulk' thing too seriously.

Whenever you read up about bulking they say that you need an excess of calories.

This idea is totally ridiculous. The amount of calories you need is exactly the amount of calories you need and no more than that.

If you consume excess calories all that will happen is you will put on fat and the first place that will go on is on your belly, covering up your abs.

If your body needs 'extra calories' to grow you body will use the fat on your belly as those calories and you will grow. It makes no difference if your body uses those 'extra calories' from food you eat or if it takes it from the fat that is on your belly already.

Ripped people cannot rely on body fat for calories so they have to make sure they are getting enough in their diet. You don't have this problem.

good lord!

Dude you had me on the first few lines then you left the reservation

Zillah

colossus-x wrote: »

Your problem is you are taking this 'bulk' thing too seriously.

Whenever you read up about bulking they say that you need an excess of calories.

This idea is totally ridiculous. The amount of calories you need is exactly the amount of calories you need and no more than that.

If you consume excess calories all that will happen is you will put on fat and the first place that will go on is on your belly, covering up your abs.

If your body needs 'extra calories' to grow you body will use the fat on your belly as those calories and you will grow. It makes no difference if your body uses those 'extra calories' from food you eat or if it takes it from the fat that is on your belly already.

Ripped people cannot rely on body fat for calories so they have to make sure they are getting enough in their diet. You don't have this problem.

This is 100% based on what you imagined while lying in bed one night and not in any way connected to how the human body actually works.

colossus-x

Blacktie. wrote: »

Please enlighten me how fat people convert their bodyfat into protein.

Fat doesn't convert into protein silly.

Zillah wrote: »

This is 100% based on what you imagined while lying in bed one night and not in any way connected to how the human body actually works.

Can you explain to me of how i have managed to put on muscle and lost body fat at the same time?

Transform wrote: »

good lord!

Dude you had me on the first few lines then you left the reservation

Exactly what kind of reservation are you residing in ? I'm not in one myself.

MightyMandarin

colossus-x wrote: »

Can you explain to me of how i have managed to put on muscle and lost body fat at the same time?

I had the same experience my first year of lifting when I went from 60kg at 17-20-ish% to 70kg at ~15%, but you're still wrong. You also didn't lose bodyfat, you just look leaner because you've more lean mass on you and your bf% is lower.

Your belief is that you can build muscle without a calorie excess because your body will use bodyfat as those calories. While this works for newbie lifters, it's a really slow process and imo, you would be better off going on a slight surplus (assuming you're not more than 20%bf) and then cutting down when you've made some gains.

During my first year I had a slight surplus and gained a little less than a pound a week. Because I gained so slowly, most of the weight I put on was muscle and because of this my bodyfat% reduced slightly because I think there was just more lean mass there, and I only gained a small amount of fat along the way.

colossus-x

MightyMandarin wrote: »

I had the same experience my first year of lifting when I went from 60kg at 17-20-ish% to 70kg at ~15%, but you're still wrong. You also didn't lose bodyfat, you just look leaner because you've more lean mass on you and your bf% is lower.

Your belief is that you can build muscle without a calorie excess because your body will use bodyfat as those calories. While this works for newbie lifters, it's a really slow process and imo, you would be better off going on a slight surplus (assuming you're not more than 20%bf) and then cutting down when you've made some gains.

During my first year I had a slight surplus and gained a little less than a pound a week. Because I gained so slowly, most of the weight I put on was muscle and because of this my bodyfat% reduced slightly because I think there was just more lean mass there, and I only gained a small amount of fat along the way.

1. What I said was not simply from personal experience. I believe it.

2. I believe the 'bulking' psychology is perpetrated by the body-building industry ( ie dr*gs and supplement industry) .

3. As far as I'm concerned there is no such thing as 'Bulking' , unless you are on the juice.

4. People who are 'lifting loads' and like to think they are 'calorificied up' , juiced up if you like. - that's nonsense. Eating more calories that you need makes no differenced to your results.

Sorry MightyMandarin, but I think the body-building websites/circuit has a lot to answer for, for a lot of mis-information.

No wonder. They make millions form it.

Alf Veedersane

Bulking means eating more food.

Not sure how the bodybuilding industry makes money out of that.

Dtp1979

colossus-x wrote: »

1. What I said was not simply from personal experience. I believe it.

2. I believe the 'bulking' psychology is perpetrated by the body-building industry ( ie dr*gs and supplement industry) .

3. As far as I'm concerned there is no such thing as 'Bulking' , unless you are on the juice.

4. People who are 'lifting loads' and like to think they are 'calorificied up' , juiced up if you like. - that's nonsense. Eating more calories that you need makes no differenced to your results.

Sorry MightyMandarin, but I think the body-building websites/circuit has a lot to answer for, for a lot of mis-information.

No wonder. They make millions form it.

Have you links to any scientific research about this?

colossus-x

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Bulking means eating more food.

Not sure how the bodybuilding industry makes money out of that.

God, do I have to explain everything to the last detail.

Yes they can. You know perfectly well the body-building industries doesn't work in isolation. They all feed off there own marketing.

If Burger King offers burgers on the telly I might as well walk into Mc Donald's based on the burger king advert.

The bodybuilding stores sell all kinds of rubbish. Fuel before. Fuel after. Don't wanna eat this bar then buy this can of this charbodrate mess.

Downing copious protein drinks is 'eating' by the way.

So in essence, I don't accept your point.

colossus-x

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Have you links to any scientific research about this?

I'm sorry but if you were trying to make a point it was a poor attempt.

How about a differing point of view ?

MightyMandarin

colossus-x wrote: »

1. What I said was not simply from personal experience. I believe it.

2. I believe the 'bulking' psychology is perpetrated by the body-building industry ( ie dr*gs and supplement industry) .

3. As far as I'm concerned there is no such thing as 'Bulking' , unless you are on the juice.

4. People who are 'lifting loads' and like to think they are 'calorificied up' , juiced up if you like. - that's nonsense. Eating more calories that you need makes no differenced to your results.

Sorry MightyMandarin, but I think the body-building websites/circuit has a lot to answer for, for a lot of mis-information.

No wonder. They make millions form it.

1. I don't care if you believe it, you're wrong.

2. Again, I don't care if you believe it, you're still wrong. The 'bodybuilding industry' doesn't benefit from the 'bulking psychology'. Yes they sell lots of sh*t and worthless garbage, but eating more food doesn't benefit them.

Not bulking means not making substantial muscle gains as far as I and science is concerned. The fact that you don't bulk means that you very likely have very little muscle.

3. As far as I'm concerned, you're wrong yet again. Being on the juice is irrelevant. If you want to gain muscle, you need to be in a caloric surplus; that's science, not just my opinion by the way.

4. I've no idea why you decided to make up your own word in 'calorificied' but I gather it means you're in a surplus. In that case, you're still wrong; you can't gain muscle in a deficit and you sure as hell can't get significantly stronger in one.

I'm going to infer that, again, you don't have much muscle mass and don't lift much weight, because if anyone followed your philosophy, they wouldn't either.

Alf Veedersane

colossus-x wrote: »

God, do I have to explain everything to the last detail.

Yes they can. You know perfectly well the body-building industries doesn't work in isolation. They all feed off there own marketing.

If Burger King offers burgers on the telly I might as well walk into Mc Donald's based on the burger king advert.

The bodybuilding stores sell all kinds of rubbish. Fuel before. Fuel after. Don't wanna eat this bar then buy this can of this charbodrate mess.

Downing copious protein drinks is 'eating' by the way.

So in essence, I don't accept your point.

You wouldn't have to explain anything to the last detail if your point made sense.

Supplement companies will pitch a supplement to help you improve fat burning, muscle growth etc. No argument there.

But that doesn't really have anything to do with bulking.

Downing copious protein shakes would be a pretty poor way to go about bulking as well.

colossus-x

Okay. Buff dudes in the gym. I'm 'Bulking'.

You see so many fat muscular guys in the gym. Why, because there are 'bulking'.

They think they need excess energy but they don't.

They just need the amount of energy and calories that they need , that's all.

The body-building industry perpetrates this idea of getting 'big big big' , by marketing this idea of eating loads and fuelling up, and eating in excess.

I'm really sorry to take away from you this idea that if your eating loads then your muscling up loads. Sorry guys , but it's just a sad macho notion.

colossus-x

MightyMandarin wrote: »

1.
I'm going to infer that, again, you don't have much muscle mass and don't lift much weight, because if anyone followed your philosophy, they wouldn't either.

I have been very successfully in my endeavours to the point people are shocked what I have done with my body over the last 2 years.

Edit: I'll send you a pic if you like : )

Alf Veedersane

colossus-x wrote: »

Okay. Buff dudes in the gym. I'm 'Bulking'.

You see so many fat muscular guys in the gym. Why, because there are 'bulking'.

They think they need excess energy but they don't.

They just need the amount of energy and calories that they need , that's all.

The body-building industry perpetrates this idea of getting 'big big big' , by marketing this idea of eating loads and fuelling up, and eating in excess.

I'm really sorry to take away from you this idea that if your eating loads then your muscling up loads. Sorry guys , but it's just a sad macho notion.

That's not really down to the bodybuilding industry. It's down to guys using the idea of bulking to eat loads.

I don't disagree with you only needing a certain amount of calories. But you do need to eat a surplus to build muscle.

Bulking doesn't mean a free for all. It just means eating a calorific surplus. That might only be an extra 250-300 kcals a day which isn't a chocolate cake a day but it's still termed bulking.

People getting it wrong isnt really down to the bodybuilding industry. It's mostly down to people trying to do something without understanding what they're doing.

Todd Toddington III

Buy a fitness mag, abs galore in them .
Being serious, whatever everybody apart from colossus said

(Alf, mighty m and Mellor are regular posters in fitness/weight lifting forums, they know what they're talking about)

Dtp1979

colossus-x wrote: »

I'm sorry but if you were trying to make a point it was a poor attempt.

How about a differing point of view ?

I'm not trying to make any point. I'm genuinely curious. What you're suggesting is going against all modern scientific research.
Are you the only person on the planet who believes your own theroy or has there been any studies done anywhere to back up what you're saying??