NetDuma router

iLikeWaffles

I was thinking of purchasing a netduma r1 router for use with searching for games with a good ping to host in bo3 and other games that require it. Basically what they do is allow or deny people on any game servers to connect to you based on there ping and geo location in a set radius around you. First off does anyone know of these routers?

I'm on 240mb upc and don't have any problems with my isp but when playing online I'd like to get the best connection possible on the best connection possible and not be playing against a host in America with a ping of above 400ms. Pretty stupid that I have to think about resorting to external hardware in this day and age to get an even playing field but I don't see them fixing bo3 matchmaking anytime soon. A simple location search within the bo3 menus (like they used to have) would probably do the job but this router's software is supposed to be the sh** for gaming. I did a keyword search on the boards and found noting so if someone else see's the router and thinks about buying it also maybe any opinions here will give them a better idea if they too search. I could probably do without the router but the ability to block players cheating and people with the worst connection imaginable would be less stressful.

Also does anyone know of any other software that would do the same job as the netduma?

mass_debater

iLikeWaffles wrote: »

I was thinking of purchasing a netduma r1 router for use with searching for games with a good ping to host in bo3 and other games that require it. Basically what they do is allow or deny people on any game servers to connect to you based on there ping and geo location in a set radius around you. First off does anyone know of these routers?

I'm on 240mb upc and don't have any problems with my isp but when playing online I'd like to get the best connection possible on the best connection possible and not be playing against a host in America with a ping of above 400ms. Pretty stupid that I have to think about resorting to external hardware in this day and age to get an even playing field but I don't see them fixing bo3 matchmaking anytime soon. A simple location search within the bo3 menus (like they used to have) would probably do the job but this router's software is supposed to be the sh** for gaming. I did a keyword search on the boards and found noting so if someone else see's the router and thinks about buying it also maybe any opinions here will give them a better idea if they too search. I could probably do without the router but the ability to block players cheating and people with the worst connection imaginable would be less stressful.

Also does anyone know of any other software that would do the same job as the netduma?

It's not the router, it's the way decentralised servers and matchmaking works. Games with dedicated local servers don't suffer from this

iLikeWaffles

mass_debater wrote: »

It's not the router, it's the way decentralised servers and matchmaking works. Games with dedicated local servers don't suffer from this

I wish they would put dedicated servers for the game would solve all problems unfortunately that's not going to happen this year and is mostly the reason I am considering this router!

ED E

This is a total kludge.

Buy a gaming PC. Play games on PC where you have a server browser, forget XBL and PSN bullsh1t.

iLikeWaffles

ED E wrote: »

This is a total kludge.

Buy a gaming PC. Play games on PC where you have a server browser, forget XBL and PSN bullsh1t.

If I wanted to game on a pc I would. You'll be telling me to get a networking degree next!

mass_debater

iLikeWaffles wrote: »

If I wanted to game on a pc I would. You'll be telling me to get a networking degree next!

He's not taking crap. Pc gaming works better because they have proper dedicated servers in data centres with decent hardware and proper uncontended connections to the internet. Compare that hosting the game on someone's 300 quid console on a weak wireless connection in their bedroom.

iLikeWaffles

I know this. What that router does or claims to do is filters all that crappy bedroom wifi and put you in lobbies that are close to you!

mass_debater

iLikeWaffles wrote: »

I know this. What that router does or claims to do is filters all that crappy bedroom wifi and put you in lobbies that are close to you!

The thing about letting residential connections host games is that what's a perfectly good connection one minute could be terrible the next minute. No router is going to fix this.

iLikeWaffles

mass_debater wrote: »

The thing about letting residential connections host games is that what's a perfectly good connection one minute could be terrible the next minute. No router is going to fix this.

That's also what this routers software can do to by limiting devices on your connection but as you say if someone is hosting you have no control but only the ability to rate them as a host.

mass_debater

It's nonsense, throw away your money if you wish but I'm telling you it will do nothing, too many variables

iLikeWaffles

mass_debater wrote: »

It's nonsense, throw away your money if you wish but I'm telling you it will do nothing, too many variables

Care to elaborate.

mass_debater

iLikeWaffles wrote: »

Care to elaborate.

I already have, hosting a game on a residential connection on 300 quid hardware will always have issues.

iLikeWaffles

mass_debater wrote: »

I already have, hosting a game on a residential connection on 300 quid hardware will always have issues.

Not really explaining it but are you! I mean what do you know about the software the router uses first off are you basing your experience with networking and saying that its impossible to do what the router is claiming to do.

mass_debater

iLikeWaffles wrote: »

Not really explaining it but are you! I mean what do you know about the software the router uses first off are you basing your experience with networking and saying that its impossible to do what the router is claiming to do.

There is no software can fix the variances in console gaming on residential connections. You might improve your own connection slightly (this can be done with simple QOS on any decent router) but you cannot fix other peoples. The host and other gamers could have a good connection one minute and it could be terrible a minute later with other people connected to their routers using the residential connections. A residential connection is like a pipe you share with other people.

If you want an improvement by all means get a better router with a faster cpu and better wifi, there are plenty of threads about it here and there's plenty of better options than the one you're asking about. Also make sure you cable all static devices in your house and only use wireless for mobility, your network will work better this way
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057367191

iLikeWaffles

mass_debater wrote: »

There is no software can fix the variances in console gaming on residential connections. You might improve your own connection slightly (this can be done with simple QOS on any decent router) but you cannot fix other peoples. The host and other gamers could have a good connection one minute and it could be terrible a minute later with other people connected to their routers using the residential connections. A residential connection is like a pipe you share with other people.

If you want an improvement by all means get a better router with a faster cpu and better wifi, there are plenty of threads about it here and there's plenty of better options than the one you're asking about. Also make sure you cable all static devices in your house and only use wireless for mobility, your network will work better this way
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057367191

I use wired wherever possible I'm not a complete noob mate. I not asking about variance in other peoples connections just about the NetDuma R1 specifically and if any body has had experience with that router.

mass_debater

This is the router they're reselling, I use exactly the same one here, a Mikrotik RB951. It's seriously powerful but has it's drawbacks, it's only wireless 802.11n (not the latest 802.11ac) and only has a 2.4Ghz radio, I've added a 5Ghz access point to mine. Newer 802.11ac routers are dual band

http://www.ip-sa.com.pl/rb951g-2hnd-p-1370.html

iLikeWaffles

mass_debater wrote: »

This is the router they're reselling, I use exactly the same one here, a Mikrotik RB951. It's seriously powerful but has it's drawbacks, it's only wireless 802.11n (not the latest 802.11ac) and only has a 2.4Ghz radio, I've added a 5Ghz access point to mine. Newer 802.11ac routers are dual band

http://www.ip-sa.com.pl/rb951g-2hnd-p-1370.html

You use the same router the NetDuma uses minus the software? So if I buy one I'm getting 50 dollar router that's chained to 150 dollar software! Most of my devices use 2.4 anyways. I believe the Duma can transmit both.

mass_debater

iLikeWaffles wrote: »

You use the same router the NetDuma uses minus the software? So if I buy one I'm getting 50 dollar router that's chained to 150 dollar software! Most of my devices use 2.4 anyways. I believe the Duma can transmit both.

It's just a geo filter rule. All the prioritisations and optimisations are in the RouterOS software the router runs but they're not at all user friendly, need expert networking knowledge to configure beyond the default script. Mikrotik don't make an integrated dual band router
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=80066213

You'd be better with a Tp Link Archer c8 or c9 from the other thread I posted, easier to manage

iLikeWaffles

mass_debater wrote: »

It's just a geo filter rule. All the prioritisations and optimisations are in the RouterOS software the router runs but they're not at all user friendly, need expert networking knowledge to configure beyond the default script. Mikrotik don't make an integrated dual band router
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=80066213

You'd be better with a Tp Link Archer c8 or c9 from the other thread I posted, easier to manage

So is it possible to set up a geo filter with most routers.

mass_debater

iLikeWaffles wrote: »

So is it possible to set up a geo filter with most routers

No, nearly all residential routers are locked down and don't give you any way of setting options like this. Mikrotik is an enterprise router

iLikeWaffles

mass_debater wrote: »

No, nearly all residential routers are locked down and don't give you any way of setting options like this. Mikrotik is an enterprise router

Right ok sure.

I'm confused first your telling me that the router is a load of crap then your saying the router without the software is one you use and that you added a 5Ghz transmitter to it then your saying I could get the same results with the router the NetDuma uses if I had expert knowledge to configure it. The NetDuma's routers OS looks easy to use so are you recommending it based off the configurability of the Mikroktic or what? I'm confident I could buy the Mikrotic and be able to learn how to configure it I want to be able to do it easily but!

mass_debater

A new router will no doubt improve your connection but don't expect it to fix your console gaming woes

iLikeWaffles

Big troll you lol!

mass_debater

FWIW I wouldn't buy a Mikrotik until they have dual band 802.11ac integrated one. I only added a 5ghz access point because I have access to hardware, if I was buying it'd be a different story. The access point is actually an Eir f2000, I just use the wireless part, don't have it routing, fills the gap for now giving me dual band. The Archer is a better buy atm and there are also some other 802.11ac routers that can take DD-WRT custom firmware, this is an easier to manage option.

ED E

What are you 12 years old waffles?

Both myself and Mass(?) work in surrounding industries, we deal with this stuff day to day.

Even if it finds a local game in Ireland, say Johnny in cork, well that seems great, you connect, 30ms, fine. But then every time Johnny's little sister Mary sends a snapchat you spike to 400ms and get killed twice before resuming normal play.

Think about it logically, its just making decisions based on latency, its a 1Ghz single core, the current consoles are hugely more powerful octa-cores, if a router can do it so can a console. If it worked PSN/XBL would already be doing it.

Piss away your money if you want, but you'd just about as much benefit from pouring angel dust over your console.

iLikeWaffles

ED E wrote: »

What are you 12 years old waffles?

Both myself and Mass(?) work in surrounding industries, we deal with this stuff day to day.

Even if it finds a local game in Ireland, say Johnny in cork, well that seems great, you connect, 30ms, fine. But then every time Johnny's little sister Mary sends a snapchat you spike to 400ms and get killed twice before resuming normal play.

Think about it logically, its just making decisions based on latency, its a 1Ghz single core, the current consoles are hugely more powerful octa-cores, if a router can do it so can a console. If it worked PSN/XBL would already be doing it.

Piss away your money if you want, but you'd just about as much benefit from pouring angel dust over your console.

Well both you need to go back and read the original post I'm not saying that I am going to buy this router I'm enquiring here because well I thought I could get some helpful and constructive information while at the same time others may see the post and if they too think about buying the router and want to find out more about it they will be properly informed. Your arrogance isn't going to help anyone!

Cuddlesworth

It could work. It depends on how many times you actually end up on American or east European hosts rather than what I would assume is first preference in your own region. The downside would be greatly increased wait times as the available pool of players would significantly decrease.

But it could work, I wouldn't view it as snake oil as much as a over the top reaction to a bad system. And with a solid guarantee of a low ping host you would have a advantage over other players.

If you're that concerned about latency, simple steps like getting off of wifi and getting a decent router can shave 5-10ms off your ping.

mass_debater wrote: »

It's just a geo filter rule. All the prioritisations and optimisations are in the RouterOS software the router runs but they're not at all user friendly, need expert networking knowledge to configure beyond the default script. Mikrotik don't make an integrated dual band router
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=80066213

You'd be better with a Tp Link Archer c8 or c9 from the other thread I posted, easier to manage

I'd assume a fair part of the cost is a managed geo-ip prefix list. Which if I think about it would really slow operations down, its not like Enterprise gear finds that easy to do.

mass_debater

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

I'd assume a fair part of the cost is a managed geo-ip prefix list. Which if I think about it would really slow operations down, its not like Enterprise gear finds that easy to do.

Exactly this. This is the list of ip ranges just for Ireland that you'd need to add to an access control list. It would be counterproductive as it would add a few milliseconds to the ping as the firewall checks each connection against the list

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87.

iLikeWaffles

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

It could work. It depends on how many times you actually end up on American or east European hosts rather than what I would assume is first preference in your own region. The downside would be greatly increased wait times as the available pool of players would significantly decrease.

But it could work, I wouldn't view it as snake oil as much as a over the top reaction to a bad system. And with a solid guarantee of a low ping host you would have a advantage over other players.

If you're that concerned about latency, simple steps like getting off of wifi and getting a decent router can shave 5-10ms off your ping.



I'd assume a fair part of the cost is a managed geo-ip prefix list. Which if I think about it would really slow operations down, its not like Enterprise gear finds that easy to do.

There now lads see how easy it is to be helpful!

Cuddlesworth

iLikeWaffles wrote: »

There now lads see how easy it is to be helpful!

I said it could work, I didn't say it does work or work to an extent that justifies the cost. At 200 quid you're halfway to a decent gaming pc. Most of this crap relies on peoples subjective opinions rather than actual hard data.

iLikeWaffles

Alls I said was your reply is helpful to the actual topic I know what you said. Is the net & comms forum in a different dimension?

ED E

mass_debater wrote: »

Exactly this. This is the list of ip ranges just for Ireland that you'd need to add to an access control list. It would be counterproductive as it would add a few milliseconds to the ping as the firewall checks each connection against the list

It really should be more a matter of <1ms really as CAM will make that lookup REALLY fast.

Cuddlesworth

ED E wrote: »

It really should be more a matter of <1ms really as CAM will make that lookup REALLY fast.

With a accept list of 20k+ prefixes? On a 50quid router. Mikrotik have a good rep but I don't think it's that good.

iLikeWaffles

Ok back to the point of this thread to being informative. Here's a quote from a guy that has this piece of gear.

"So I got a Netduma r1 router which allows me to see where the current host is. Let me start off by saying to those thinking about getting one that it is nice for finding games. However, that changes after every game.

I live in Washington state near the coast and have said all along that I don't mind skill based matchmaking as long as I can play in local lobbies. Well I can see now that the game tries to put me in east coast lobbies constantly, router doesn't let it though so it takes a few minutes to get a game.

Problem is I get into a lobby and after the game even if nobody leaves the host will change before the next game even though it doesn't say so I can see it happen. What sucks if you are on the west coast is within about an hour if you never even change lobbies the host will be east of the Mississippi. I understand there are more players on the east half of the U.S. but there are plenty of players on the west side of the U.S. that they don't have to mix west and east players.

I thought it was the games fault for a long time and they cannot be without some blame but I now believe that PSN has something to do with it. Maybe more than some of us know. Maybe someone of knowledge could enlighten the rest of us, but is it possible that PSN is part of the problem.

Someone told me once when I was on Xbox that when you go to play a game online that Xbox would tell supply the list of players that were in your region to the game which then the game would put you in any of those lobbies that Xbox told them were in your region.

Either way the U.S. is big enough to be broken down into at least 2 but better 3 regions that if you live in that region you play others only in that region unless you were in a party which would allow you to play in another region but never be host of a game in that region which would keep the host from migrating away from the other players in that lobby.

The way things work now is either I have to expand my geo filter after I am in a lobby or after 1 or 2 games my router will kick me out saying the host is out of range as it just keeps moving east. But that first game sure is nice having decent hit detection and not having to reload after every kill."


So he's saying that the router will do what it claims as long as you search for a fresh host or lobby every time you get into a match because you don't have any control over other people from a different region or outside the geo filter range joining the lobby after you are in the lobby. The problem is that you have to build up a collection of hosts that you will say if you like playing against them or if the connection was good enough for you. Now before you repeat yourselves and say gaming is better on a pc you jackass go buy one. Try to understand I'm not trying to piss anyone off here but just to give somebody else an idea of this router I myself am trying to make an informed decision on whether or not to get one this information kind of explains some of the variables to consider.

Strangegravy

iLikeWaffles wrote: »

Ok back to the point of this thread to being informative. Here's a quote from a guy that has this piece of gear.

"So I got a Netduma r1 router which allows me to see where the current host is. Let me start off by saying to those thinking about getting one that it is nice for finding games. However, that changes after every game.

I live in Washington state near the coast and have said all along that I don't mind skill based matchmaking as long as I can play in local lobbies. Well I can see now that the game tries to put me in east coast lobbies constantly, router doesn't let it though so it takes a few minutes to get a game.

Problem is I get into a lobby and after the game even if nobody leaves the host will change before the next game even though it doesn't say so I can see it happen. What sucks if you are on the west coast is within about an hour if you never even change lobbies the host will be east of the Mississippi. I understand there are more players on the east half of the U.S. but there are plenty of players on the west side of the U.S. that they don't have to mix west and east players.

I thought it was the games fault for a long time and they cannot be without some blame but I now believe that PSN has something to do with it. Maybe more than some of us know. Maybe someone of knowledge could enlighten the rest of us, but is it possible that PSN is part of the problem.

Someone told me once when I was on Xbox that when you go to play a game online that Xbox would tell supply the list of players that were in your region to the game which then the game would put you in any of those lobbies that Xbox told them were in your region.

Either way the U.S. is big enough to be broken down into at least 2 but better 3 regions that if you live in that region you play others only in that region unless you were in a party which would allow you to play in another region but never be host of a game in that region which would keep the host from migrating away from the other players in that lobby.

The way things work now is either I have to expand my geo filter after I am in a lobby or after 1 or 2 games my router will kick me out saying the host is out of range as it just keeps moving east. But that first game sure is nice having decent hit detection and not having to reload after every kill."


So he's saying that the router will do what it claims as long as you search for a fresh host or lobby every time you get into a match because you don't have any control over other people from a different region or outside the geo filter range joining the lobby after you are in the lobby. The problem is that you have to build up a collection of hosts that you will say if you like playing against them or if the connection was good enough for you. Now before you repeat yourselves and say gaming is better on a pc you jackass go buy one. Try to understand I'm not trying to piss anyone off here but just to give somebody else an idea of this router I myself am trying to make an informed decision on whether or not to get one this information kind of explains some of the variables to consider.

Well, Waffles, did you buy one in the end?

ED E

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

With a accept list of 20k+ prefixes? On a 50quid router. Mikrotik have a good rep but I don't think it's that good.

Yep, even 20 dolla switches use CAM, memory does the work instead of the CPU.

iLikeWaffles

Strangegravy wrote: »

Well, Waffles, did you buy one in the end?

Haven't decided yet. See after Christmas.

Cuddlesworth

ED E wrote: »

Yep, even 20 dolla switches use CAM, memory does the work instead of the CPU.

Not sure it's that easy though.

On a basic level, the cpu needs to look at the packet, check the destination address, cycle through 20k entries to confirm it matches a approved entry and then keep a approved conversation in memory. And it needs to do this while doing all its other tasks for multiple conversations.

The chip in that Microtik isn't exactly the most powerful, it's only 600 hundred cycles per second with a limited number of instructions there. I know that this is a problem most high end firewalls are now facing, pushing packets against rulesets without an unreasonable delay. And they are all ASIC based now. I think the behaviour would be similar to a public AS bgp router, normal operation all fine but when it has to go through the table it ****s itself for a second or 2.

iLikeWaffles

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Not sure it's that easy though.

On a basic level, the cpu needs to look at the packet, check the destination address, cycle through 20k entries to confirm it matches a approved entry and then keep a approved conversation in memory. And it needs to do this while doing all its other tasks for multiple conversations.

The chip in that Microtik isn't exactly the most powerful, it's only 600 hundred cycles per second with a limited number of instructions there. I know that this is a problem most high end firewalls are now facing, pushing packets against rulesets without an unreasonable delay. And they are all ASIC based now. I think the behaviour would be similar to a public AS bgp router, normal operation all fine but when it has to go through the table it ****s itself for a second or 2.

I have no idea what you lads are talking about in layman's terms what implications would this have with the NetDuma router.

mass_debater

iLikeWaffles wrote: »

I have no idea what you lads are talking about in layman's terms what implications would this have with the NetDuma router.

One or two milliseconds. I've used mikrotiks in the field, i have a few businesses and guesthouse hotspots i look after. They are fine for basic NAT but slow drastically when you start using address lists and mangle rules to connection and packet mark.

iLikeWaffles

mass_debater wrote: »

One or two milliseconds. I've used mikrotiks in the field, i have a few businesses and guesthouse hotspots i look after. They are fine for basic NAT but slow drastically when you start using address lists and mangle rules to connection and packet mark.

Ok so here's a question then what router should the netduma software use instead of the Mikrotic?

It is my understanding the router only connects to low ping hosts so why would any of that have an impact on games. For example I'm put into a lobby with 11 other players all of which have the potential to be good hosts set by the rules of the router when the match begins why would it need to keep anything in memory and introduce any sort of delay?

jcd5971

Sorry to necro bump thread but 6 months old I figure you may be still curious.

I have my r1 net Duma 6mnts it's an amazing piece of kit. I play on ps4 and mainly destiny.
In pvp it was OK but in recent months they have implemented a skill based priority in match making as oposed to connection based.

Now the router shines when not using George filtering I can see I'm am being matched routinely against usa or even further afield players.

When I turn on George filtering I can adjust the radius of players a I will be matched against I can also filter by ping.

The more strict I am the longer the matchmaking takes.
However I have found a happy balance by including most of Europe.
I find my matchmaking takes approx 1 minute longer than when not using the feature but it delivers a far better quality of match.

To the guy posting that he has the same router for a cheaper price, it is the software you are paying for.
It is designed for gamers specifically and is incredibly simple to use it's qos and port forwarding is also simple to use.

To the poster commenting that even if you match against someone local, there ping will fluctuate based on sister using Netflix etc.

That will be the case regardless of a router, however I would point out that even if they went from a ping of 20 to 100 which would be reasonable if their traffic was heavy, it is still an improvement on some of the figures I had seen when not using the George filter.

example I was matched in a lobby with an Algerian a Fireteam of 3 Russians and a combination of east and west coast Americans. Some of these players reported a ping of over 200ms when hosting.

To the person speaking about PC gaming, it is irrelevant debate both have pros and cons.

Just my 2c and as always YMMV