Ifa not representing suckler/beef farmers

porter shark

The ifa is in ruins and the difference in beef price between ireland and the uk is at an all-time high. Am I the only one that feels its time for suckler/beef farmers to set up their own organisation?

If all the suckler/beef farmers claimed back 7 years ifa deductions and put a fraction of it into a new organisation we would soon have a powerful organisation. A new independant organisation would surely do a better job marketing our beef than the ifa who, as far as I can see, are more interested in the dairy sector.

Username John

Sheep farmer here, and not even a good one at that

Do you think there are enough beef farmers to support another farm organisation?
Do you think lads will get 7 wars worth of levies back?
If they do, how much do you expect to put into this new organisation?

I know everyone is raw about the IFA debacle. But setting up a new organisation is difficult enough I'd imagine?

What are the existing organisations currently out there, and what are their aims?
ICMSA, INHFA - not sure what either do, or who they claim to represent to be honest...

Bullocks

porter shark wrote: »

The ifa is in ruins and the difference in beef price between ireland and the uk is at an all-time high. Am I the only one that feels its time for suckler/beef farmers to set up their own organisation?

If all the suckler/beef farmers claimed back 7 years ifa deductions and put a fraction of it into a new organisation we would soon have a powerful organisation. A new independant organisation would surely do a better job marketing our beef than the ifa who, as far as I can see, are more interested in the dairy sector.

Its Bord Bia that should be marketing our beef . But i get what your saying

rangler1

porter shark wrote: »

The ifa is in ruins and the difference in beef price between ireland and the uk is at an all-time high. Am I the only one that feels its time for suckler/beef farmers to set up their own organisation?

If all the suckler/beef farmers claimed back 7 years ifa deductions and put a fraction of it into a new organisation we would soon have a powerful organisation. A new independant organisation would surely do a better job marketing our beef than the ifa who, as far as I can see, are more interested in the dairy sector.

It's there already...ICSA

barnaman

As Rangler said ICSA. I am in it and the IFA.

djmc

Don't forget ifdl.
They are the only ones that represent my interest's
I think the inhfa and ICSA also do a good enough job at raising issues

porter shark

Wat do the Icsa do for us? Does it not seem insane that our organisations aren't shouting for live export to the uk?

rangler1

porter shark wrote: »

Wat do the Icsa do for us? Does it not seem insane that our organisations aren't shouting for live export to the uk?

If you think any government/ organisation is going to magic markets for cattle, you're going to be sorely disappointed.
Price is what generates markets, there's enough exporters here in the country to move if the price is right. Irish exporters fill boats other places than here,

Sam Kade

Bullocks wrote: »

Its Bord Bia that should be marketing our beef . But i get what your saying

They're too busy checking out farms for silly regulations to be bothered with marketing :mad:

porter shark

rangler1 wrote: »

If you think any government/ organisation is going to magic markets for cattle, you're going to be sorely disappointed.
Price is what generates markets, there's enough exporters here in the country to move if the price is right. Irish exporters fill boats other places than here,

You think the differential of €450 between here and the uk isn't enough? Ifa and the rest are in goodmans pocket. I'm not expecting anyone to magic up a market but fair access to existing ones isn't even an ifa priority

barnaman

Take a look at the Beef Price Thread and the last few pages. Bottom line the UK is not Ireland and Irish Beef is not British beef. British supermarkets promote British beef as its what their customers want.

rangler1

porter shark wrote: »

You think the differential of €450 between here and the uk isn't enough? Ifa and the rest are in goodmans pocket. I'm not expecting anyone to magic up a market but fair access to existing ones isn't even an ifa priority

We're exporting lambs into France and there's usually a 20% difference in price there too.....if we're not happy with the price, they'll get lamb from England/new Zealand.
I'm sure there is plenty of beef going into England from Ireland but there's plenty of Polish going in too cheaper than Irish

Willfarman

barnaman wrote: »

Take a look at the Beef Price Thread and the last few pages. Bottom line the UK is not Ireland and Irish Beef is not British beef. British supermarkets promote British beef as its what their customers want.

No. cheap qaulity beef is what the British consumer wants. And the the retailers want to sell it cheap and buy it cheaper. There is a more volume of Irish beef sold in the uk than British beef.. Now they will pay a higher price for a limited volume of branded red tractor prime beef, but if the price of the Irish bord bia approved beef one shelf down equates to 450 euro on a 350 carcass I'll eat ranglers cowboy hat and Stetsons.

barnaman

Willfarman wrote: »

No. cheap qaulity beef is what the British consumer wants. And the the retailers want to sell it cheap and buy it cheaper. There is a more volume of Irish beef sold in the uk than British beef.. Now they will pay a higher price for a limited volume of branded red tractor prime beef, but if the price of the Irish bord bia approved beef one shelf down equates to 450 euro on a 350 carcass I'll eat ranglers cowboy hat and Stetsons.

Will what retailers? Where can I buy this "prime" Irish beef in the UK. If I go to Waitrose or Tesco in the UK they only sell British fresh beef. You are trageting Somerfield and the like for selling Irish beef

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/keep-sending-your-irish-beef-and-well-mince-it-uk-farmer/

€3 a kilo is what they sell in the shop Irish beef.

Willfarman

Only at the fresh meat counter. The Irish beef in tesco waitrose and sainsburys is fresh beef. Ie not frozen, just already sliced diced and packaged and is a volume seller.

barnaman

Will I posted in the Beef Price that Waitrose only stock and sell British beef end of. Tesco only sell British beef at its fresh meat counters, again end of. Just look at their published commitments to British beef. I lived in the UK for years and have a decent idea what you can buy in UK supoermarkets. Sainsburys was one only one that was a main player stocking Irish beef.

http://www.thegrocer.co.uk/ireland-wants-new-label-to-boost-beef-sales-to-uk/204936.article

This is the sub prime market for Irish beef has been the case for years.

Willfarman

The tesco fresh meat counter would account for a small volume of it beef sales. They are a major buyer of Irish prime beef as are sainsburys. I never lived there but have plenty of family over there. I am wrong about waitrose as far as I can see on Google. And our subprime beef has to go somewhere too as it would account for half of the average carcass.

gerryirl

porter shark wrote: »

The ifa is in ruins and the difference in beef price between ireland and the uk is at an all-time high. Am I the only one that feels its time for suckler/beef farmers to set up their own organisation?

If all the suckler/beef farmers claimed back 7 years ifa deductions and put a fraction of it into a new organisation we would soon have a powerful organisation. A new independant organisation would surely do a better job marketing our beef than the ifa who, as far as I can see, are more interested in the dairy sector.

Have to agree with a lot of what you say. I was one of the many fools that picketed the factories last year. Where did it get us, no where. The factories are doing what they want.
Every agri paper I pick up its dairy from front to back. I've nothing against dairy don't get me wrong but there is a big imbalance with the beef/suckler and dairy.
Henry burns in fairness I hear is a good man but the top brass in the Ifa held him back the time of the pickets. He wanted out for longer as did most farmers. The Ifa in recent years remind of the unions. All talk but no balls when it gets dirty. The old Ifa had balls

barnaman

Willfarman wrote: »

The tesco fresh meat counter would account for a small volume of it beef sales. They are a major buyer of Irish prime beef as are sainsburys. I never lived there but have plenty of family over there. I am wrong about waitrose as far as I can see on Google. And our subprime beef has to go somewhere too as it would account for half of the average carcass.

https://www.fwi.co.uk/business/anger-as-facings-of-british-lamb-plummet-at-tesco.htm

Scroll down and see the percentage beef sold in British supermarkets that is British most are 100% and the rest nudging it.

manjou

250 a animal may seem alot of a difference but on a 500g pack of beef in a supermarket the price differential is only about 50c roughley so irish beef isent being discounted that much. The problem is that there are people manupliating supplys so as to keep the british beef price down at a level by using irish beef.If british farmers could feed irish cattle and kill them at british prices it would be a whole different ball game as less irish competition.

Tail painter

porter shark wrote: »

The ifa is in ruins and the difference in beef price between ireland and the uk is at an all-time high. Am I the only one that feels its time for suckler/beef farmers to set up their own organisation?

If all the suckler/beef farmers claimed back 7 years ifa deductions and put a fraction of it into a new organisation we would soon have a powerful organisation. A new independant organisation would surely do a better job marketing our beef than the ifa who, as far as I can see, are more interested in the dairy sector.

I did my time on the IFA dairy committee a few years back and there was general agreement that the main focus for IFA was sucklers/beef. The reason is that there are far more beef farmers than all other sectors put together. I dont know how you can say that IFA are far more interested in the dairy sector.

CallofGuti

I think the ICSA is really good organisation. It is hamstrung by the fact that it's small and will always been seen as the little brother but I think that's what makes it good.

It will never be able to compete financially but maybe that's a good thing and seeing this week that they don't get levies is a good thing. I don't think their president is up to much but overall a good org.

Saying that, I thought the ad in the farm indo the other day was a bit OTT. In the week that Darragh was digging the boot into the IFA, the ICSA was hawking for business, Maybe that was good strategy though?! I'm talking in circles!

rangler1

CallofGuti wrote: »

I think the ICSA is really good organisation. It is hamstrung by the fact that it's small and will always been seen as the little brother but I think that's what makes it good.

It will never be able to compete financially but maybe that's a good thing and seeing this week that they don't get levies is a good thing. I don't think their president is up to much but overall a good org.

Saying that, I thought the ad in the farm indo the other day was a bit OTT. In the week that Darragh was digging the boot into the IFA, the ICSA was hawking for business, Maybe that was good strategy though?! I'm talking in circles!

Eddie Punch seems to be good...or is he still there

rangler1

Tail painter wrote: »

I did my time on the IFA dairy committee a few years back and there was general agreement that the main focus for IFA was sucklers/beef. The reason is that there are far more beef farmers than all other sectors put together. I dont know how you can say that IFA are far more interested in the dairy sector.

It's as I've said before, it depends on who's on the various commitees whether they drive on the issues and, like the GAA county teams, their strength changes with every year.
Have to say though that Henry Burns on livestock is a very strong representative, but Sean O'Leary on the dairy committee wouldn't be as strong.
Sheep committee haven't really been tested....yet

patsy_mccabe

rangler1 wrote: »

Eddie Punch seems to be good...or is he still there

I bought cattle from Eddie a few years back.:D

oldsmokey

Can't blame icsa for advertising - more power to em. IFA got too big for their boots taking all say from local branches, centralising power - sound familiar??
They need to stop taking factory money to have any shred of future credibility - and give a say - and funds- back to the local branch.
What did ifa do when unclaimed bdgp money went straight to the dairy boys, who to be fair are the only crowd making a quid - a scandal.
IFA court the dairy lads cos they know they'll be the only ones who can afford membership in years to come - with cash comes clout.
And the hot air about the beef forum...the whole lot of them IFA, Coveney and the factories having a good laugh at the gom of a suckler farmer.

TITANIUM.

oldsmokey wrote: »

Can't blame icsa for advertising - more power to em. IFA got too big for their boots taking all say from local branches, centralising power - sound familiar??
They need to stop taking factory money to have any shred of future credibility - and give a say - and funds- back to the local branch.
What did ifa do when unclaimed bdgp money went straight to the dairy boys, who to be fair are the only crowd making a quid - a scandal.
IFA court the dairy lads cos they know they'll be the only ones who can afford membership in years to come - with cash comes clout.
And the hot air about the beef forum...the whole lot of them IFA, Coveney and the factories having a good laugh at the gom of a suckler farmer.

Ah feck it anyway, I suppose your right.
Im a suckler and sheep farmer and a member of both the IFA and the ICSA. Haven't withdrawn membership or anything like that yet. Not sure what I'm going to do yet. One things for sure tho we need some kind of voice. Maybe I'll wait and see what comes out of it once the dust has settled. This could be the best opportunity we have to reform the association but I won't hold my breath.
The IFA are so busy fire fighting that the current beef crisis is just allowed amble on. And if the factories are just left carry on like this unchecked then I'm worried that there won't be many guys left to buy my weanlings next year, Or those that do want to buy them won't pay what I would believe is a fair price because they would just loose money. ****e flows downhill and guys like me a at the bottom.
I love farming. But I don't want to be doing it for nothing.

paddysdream

porter shark wrote: »

Wat do the Icsa do for us? Does it not seem insane that our organisations aren't shouting for live export to the uk?

Have a look at their ad in last Tuesdays Farming Indo.Seem to be in favour of a push to help live exports instead of a 100% concentration on selling our processed beef.,

Willfarman

They called the beef grid fiasco several times too. They correctly pointed out how it has cheapened the greater tonnage of beef for the processers. The poorer grading carcasses. Ironic that the ifa livestock chairman that was so adamant about its introduction is now milking cows.

rangler1

Willfarman wrote: »

They called the beef grid fiasco several times too. They correctly pointed out how it has cheapened the greater tonnage of beef for the processers. The poorer grading carcasses. Ironic that the ifa livestock chairman that was so adamant about its introduction is now milking cows.

I was on the livestock committee around 2000, farmers were fed up with human graders and not being paid enough for good quality cattle. This was definitely what the farmers wanted, don't try to pass the buck on this one. I was selling cattle to moyvalley at the time and was very happy with the price and the grades so I wasn't too bothered about going electronic grading, moy valley didn't want it at the time either.
Omalley was livestock chairman then, is he gone milking

Willfarman

rangler1 wrote: »

I was on the livestock committee around 2000, farmers were fed up with human graders and not being paid enough for good quality cattle. This was definitely what the farmers wanted, don't try to pass the buck on this one. I was selling cattle to moyvalley at the time and was very happy with the price and the grades so I wasn't too bothered about going electronic grading, moy valley didn't want it at the time either.
Omalley was livestock chairman then, is he gone milking

Michael Doran I had in mind?