Partner taking children abroad.

FortySeven

My 7 year old daughter just told me she thinks they are moving to Poland with their Mother. We are currently separating, still in the same house until I move out, we are not married and everytime I tried to get her to give me guardianship rights in the past it has caused huge problems, I know I have to get guardianship but was hoping to leave this until after things have calmed down.

Kids were born in Ireland, she is Polish and I am a UK passport holder but we have lived here together for over 10 years.

This is freaking me out and I would value any advice. Thanks.

Wabbit Ears

In Ireland fathers have limited parental rights. Even less if you are not married. I would be contacting a family law solicitor immediately and discussing your options. Best if luck, honestly, my heart goes out to you.

Edit to add Link http://www.treoir.ie/target-fathers.php

meeeeh

Go to a solicitor now. Seriously you have very few rights as unmarried father and you might need to apply for guardianship through court. I don't want to scare you but guardianship is the first thing you should try to sort out.

patsypantaloni

OP legal advice isn't allowed here so all I'll say is that there are steps you can take to safeguard your rights and your children, you need to speak to a solicitor asap about urgently issuing District Court applications for guardianship and access

jam_mac_jam

Get guardianship as you have no rights without this. Speak to her about it again and explain that if she doesn't grant it you will go the legal route. This is really important as the child cannot get a passport without your consent if you are a guardian.

FortySeven

Sorry, I should have said that I have taken legal advice on this in the past. I'm aware of the difficulties with my position. My main worry here is that she can move them before I can secure guardianship and what my situation would be in this type of scenario.

The sad part of it is that I would have significantly more rights as a father in Polish law but obviously this does not help access due to the distances involved.

patsypantaloni

FortySeven wrote: »

Sorry, I should have said that I have taken legal advice on this in the past. I'm aware of the difficulties with my position. My main worry here is that she can move them before I can secure guardianship and what my situation would be in this type of scenario.

The sad part of it is that I would have significantly more rights as a father in Polish law but obviously this does not help access due to the distances involved.

Once an application is issued no move can take place without a court decision, that's why it's important to issue the application urgently

eviltwin

Can you get your daughters passport before you leave the house? I'd apply for guardianship again and site your belief your ex might try and take your daughter abroad.

ted1

Would you consider moving to Poland? Irish law sucks with regards fathers. While the courts might delay them, ultimately they'll get back there.

I've three kids myself and couldn't bear thinking about not been able to see them. Hope it works out for you

FortySeven

ted1 wrote: »

Would you consider moving to Poland? Irish law sucks with regards fathers. While the courts might delay them, ultimately they'll get back there.

I've three kids myself and couldn't bear thinking about not been able to see them. Hope it works out for you

I would, I lived there before but it would put me at a significant disadvantage regarding employment. I speak a bit of Polish but not enough to do any work except native speaker in an english school. I did this for a year and hated it.

There are 2 children, not just my daughter, my son is 8. Moving them to Poland would be detrimental to their education, they are both bilingual but have no reading or writing skills in Polish. While I am sure they would catch up it just seems so unfair that she would put them through this just to get at me, she has a job here and has always wanted to stay here. It was herself that wanted to move back when we were living there. She hated it.

I'm hoping my daughter has the wrong end of the stick but I cannot approach her about it as any attempt at discussion she wants to fight. She has already taken out a protection order on me so I cannot really put myself in that position. She has her parents here in the house and I am trying to keep out of everyones way to not antagonise but the kids are already suffering so I feel I have no choice but to leave. I have asked her to sit down with the kids with me to try to explain what is happening but she refuses to respond. I am down to seeing the kids only after she has put them to bed and then she comes and interferes when I am kissing them goodnight.

It's an intolerable situation and I have decided to tell the kids as gently as possible that I will be leaving, I have read a few advice pages online as to how to broach the subject and hope to do it in an adult fashion but if I'm honest I have tears rolling down my cheeks right now at the thought of it.

Wabbit Ears

AFAIK if she decides to take them to Poland then there is absolutely nothing to stop her from doing so.

On your situation the very little hope you have is a pending court date but really, if she just decided to not go to court and grab a flight, there is nothing realistically stopping her.

You could become a transgender Teacher? That way you'd be afforded every protection possible and possibly get custardy rights by claiming that you identify as the child's mother. On the opposite end of the scale if you are a male self employed atheist you are barely human in the eyes of ireland.

patsypantaloni

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

On your situation the very little hope you have is a pending court date but really, if she just decided to not go to court and grab a flight, there is nothing realistically stopping her.

Not correct. If someone has received court papers and leaves the country before the court hearing then it's classed as child abduction and they can be ordered to return, this is why it's so important to get urgent, proper legal advice

Wabbit Ears

Ordered to return, yes, but nothing preventing them from leaving.

And, again realistically, once she has left Ireland with the children an Irish court order is not nessisarily something that will make her return. She could and would fight it, or simply ignore it completely. And it would be years before it was eventually, if ever, sorted out.

AFAIK it's only considered abduction if the father leaves with the children.

patsypantaloni

The levels of misinformation in this thread are really worrying. Under child abduction law, the person can be ordered to return by the courts of their own country, and there's a significant procedure in place between all EU countries to make sure this happens. As far the statement that abduction only applies when it's the father, that's so wrong I don't know where to start

OP please get legal advice ASAP, there are things you can do to protect yourself and your children but you need to act fast, if you can't afford a solicitor call FLAC 1890 350 250 they may be able to help

Wibbs

+1000 to what patsypantaloni has posted. I knew a similar case to yours 47 and he got the ball rolling legally very quickly and protected his kids and in his case the partners country wasn't even in the EU(Russia). Get good legal advice today.

Hemerodrome

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

Ordered to return, yes, but nothing preventing them from leaving.

And, again realistically, once she has left Ireland with the children an Irish court order is not nessisarily something that will make her return. She could and would fight it, or simply ignore it completely. And it would be years before it was eventually, if ever, sorted out.

AFAIK it's only considered abduction if the father leaves with the children.

Stop posting unhelpful nonsense.

Wabbit Ears

Hemerodrome wrote:

Stop posting unhelpful nonsense.

No, simply because I have a friend in exactly this situation. She went home with the kids and he has been battling with it for over two years now.

Hemerodrome

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

No, simply because I have a friend in exactly this situation. She went home with the kids and he has been battling with it for over two years now.

Your friend has my sympathy, but that doesn't change the fact that you're making it up as you go along and misleading the OP. Hopefully they take the good advice they were given and get legal help immediately and ignore your posts.

fima

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

Ordered to return, yes, but nothing preventing them from leaving.

And, again realistically, once she has left Ireland with the children an Irish court order is not nessisarily something that will make her return. She could and would fight it, or simply ignore it completely. And it would be years before it was eventually, if ever, sorted out.

AFAIK it's only considered abduction if the father leaves with the children.

Nonsense.

OP you can secure guardianship very quickly if necessary. You just need the right legal advice. My partner has had to move very quickly in the past when he shared custody of his two children with their mum to stop her from taking them abroad and was able to do so in a couple of days. He got guardianship overnight when the children were very young. Obviously you would need legal advice for this. No judge would deny a father guardianship of their child, you just need to get it done quickly.

He now has full sole custody of the children so please don't listen to advice above.

Taltos

Mod Note
Wabbit Ears - you've received one warning for an unhelpful post. Don't post in this thread again and before posting any further in PI please read our charter.

Hemerodrome, welcome to PI/RI. This forum is a lot stricter than others. Please take some time now to read our charter. Your post above would normally result in mod action. If you have an issue with a poster please report it. Rule of thumb here is if you don't have constructive advice to offer in a civil manner just don't post.

Thanks

zeffabelli

Ok I think that people are catastrophising here and sending you into a panic based on the reports of a 7 year old.

Franky, without further investigation and confirmation, this is simply insane to be so reactive to the reports of a 7 year old.

My 7 year old still believes in Santa, calls his teacher a boot camp instructor and tells his friends all sorts of exagerrated versions of things.

They pick up on things and sometimes get it right and sometimes get it very very wrong.

IF you run with this in hysterical fashions with accusations of child abduction you are going to cause an immense amount of conflict, suspicion, and lack of good will. You have a long road ahead of co parenting.

I would be a GROWN UP, and solidly and calmly ask her mother to clarify, tell her the child seems to be under the impression they are moving.

Honestly if it were a real abduction, no way would the child know. It would be kept a secret and then poof, gone one day.

Perspective - keep it!

arayess

zeffabelli wrote: »

Ok I think that people are catastrophising here and sending you into a panic based on the reports of a 7 year old.

Franky, without further investigation and confirmation, this is simply insane to be so reactive to the reports of a 7 year old.

My 7 year old still believes in Santa, calls his teacher a boot camp instructor and tells his friends all sorts of exagerrated versions of things.

They pick up on things and sometimes get it right and sometimes get it very very wrong.

IF you run with this in hysterical fashions with accusations of child abduction you are going to cause an immense amount of conflict, suspicion, and lack of good will. You have a long road ahead of co parenting.

I would be a GROWN UP, and solidly and calmly ask her mother to clarify, tell her the child seems to be under the impression they are moving.

Honestly if it were a real abduction, no way would the child know. It would be kept a secret and then poof, gone one day.

Perspective - keep it!

I wouldn't do this. As some who has a child with an ex with a completely broken down relationship , I know a bit about these situations.
The worst thing you can do is let your ex know that you know (or suspect) even if it's not true.
It may speed up her plans in fact make them immediate.

OP - the best (and only advice) has been given earlier.
Get a solicitor and get papers lodged immediately. The judge can then order that the children not leave the state until a further court order permits this.
If your ex takes them back to Poland (or anywhere) she will be guilty of abduction unless she goes to court to get permission first.

That said , you mightn't get your way in court , in the courts defence they must choose a side based on what is said in court but it's the only way to protect yourself.
You seem to have a strong case based on the kids difficulty integrating in Poland and also they have a life already in Ireland.
And although it's far from perfect the courts are moving away from the 100% side with the mother ethos of old. If you are involved in the kids lives and claim you want to be , you stand a good chance.
I had my son half the week , he is 16 now and lives with me 90% of the time (although it's his friends rather than my charming company that causes that)

As for the poster above and their advice I'd reject that.
I have experience in family court and a child telling you this information will be considered evidence and the other side will be obliged to admit or deny it.

Final advice is also based on my experience get a family law solicitor , don't get a general solicitor or a solicitor who does family law as a list of other areas. Get a solicitor who is pretty much exclusive in family law.
I'd a solictor who did family law as part of his brief moved to another who did family law exclusively.

zeffabelli

arayess wrote: »

I wouldn't do this. As some who has a child with an ex with a completely broken down relationship , I know a bit about these situations.
The worst thing you can do is let your ex know that you know (or suspect) even if it's not true.
It may speed up her plans in fact make them immediate.

OP - the best (and only advice) has been given earlier.
Get a solicitor and get papers lodged immediately. The judge can then order that the children not leave the state until a further court order permits this.
If your ex takes them back to Poland (or anywhere) she will be guilty of abduction unless she goes to court to get permission first.

That said , you mightn't get your way in court , in the courts defence they must choose a side based on what is said in court but it's the only way to protect yourself.
You seem to have a strong case based on the kids difficulty integrating in Poland and also they have a life already in Ireland.
And although it's far from perfect the courts are moving away from the 100% side with the mother ethos of old. If you are involved in the kids lives and claim you want to be , you stand a good chance.
I had my son half the week , he is 16 now and lives with me 90% of the time (although it's his friends rather than my charming company that causes that)

As for the poster above and their advice I'd reject that.
I have experience in family court and a child telling you this information will be considered evidence and the other side will be obliged to admit or deny it.

Final advice is also based on my experience get a family law solicitor , don't get a general solicitor or a solicitor who does family law as a list of other areas. Get a solicitor who is pretty much exclusive in family law.
I'd a solictor who did family law as part of his brief moved to another who did family law exclusively.

And they say dads have no rights....clearly they do! Good.

I'd still want to verify what the 7 year old says is true...otherwise you just look like a paranoid dickhead.

strandroad

zeffabelli wrote: »

And they say dads have no rights....clearly they do! Good.

I'd still want to verify what the 7 year old says is true...otherwise you just look like a paranoid dickhead.

Whether it's true or not a guardianship is a good thing to have. Imagine if the mother fell ill, died etc. and you have to prove you are who you are on top of everything else.

FortySeven

zeffabelli wrote: »

And they say dads have no rights....clearly they do! Good.

I'd still want to verify what the 7 year old says is true...otherwise you just look like a paranoid dickhead.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, she has taken a completely unjustified protection order out against me, there is no talking going on at the moment. She seems to want to slug it out, I'm hoping it can be amicable but not holding hope. Her parents are egging her on to fight and I can't be bothered with any of them.

I am going into court on Monday to submit the guardianship application. I have taken a look and I don't think I need a solicitor. It is just a case of filling in 2 forms and serving her with one of them, solicitor quoted me 500 euro to see it through but there are no grounds for not awarding me guardianship so I am just going to save that money. I'm going to need it.

I appreciate all the responses, I have been doing a lot of research on this and it seems once those papers are lodged and she has been served then it is abduction if she takes them. I'm starting to wonder if her parents have been trying to get her to move home and this is what my daughter overheard.

Anyway, nothing I can do till the court is set in motion. I hope the judge takes note of the fact that my partner is attempting to restrict my rights with my children with no reason other than to get at me.

power pants

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

Ordered to return, yes, but nothing preventing them from leaving.

And, again realistically, once she has left Ireland with the children an Irish court order is not nessisarily something that will make her return. She could and would fight it, or simply ignore it completely. And it would be years before it was eventually, if ever, sorted out.

AFAIK it's only considered abduction if the father leaves with the children.

Nonsense. I know this for a fact as have been through the process. Take a child out of the country with a court order issued and you will soon know about it when you land in the other EU country quick enough

zeffabelli

FortySeven wrote: »

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, she has taken a completely unjustified protection order out against me, there is no talking going on at the moment. She seems to want to slug it out, I'm hoping it can be amicable but not holding hope. Her parents are egging her on to fight and I can't be bothered with any of them.

I am going into court on Monday to submit the guardianship application. I have taken a look and I don't think I need a solicitor. It is just a case of filling in 2 forms and serving her with one of them, solicitor quoted me 500 euro to see it through but there are no grounds for not awarding me guardianship so I am just going to save that money. I'm going to need it.

I appreciate all the responses, I have been doing a lot of research on this and it seems once those papers are lodged and she has been served then it is abduction if she takes them. I'm starting to wonder if her parents have been trying to get her to move home and this is what my daughter overheard.

Anyway, nothing I can do till the court is set in motion. I hope the judge takes note of the fact that my partner is attempting to restrict my rights with my children with no reason other than to get at me.

Sorry OP I didn't see that about the protection order.

Get the guardianship regardless......shame you can't confirm about the moving....

I have a 7 year old and am around 7 year olds and they get things really wrong sometimes...... which is why I'd be careful there which taking as gospel what yours is saying...

YEah I'd save my money on the lawyer.... you can do that yourself... the only question might be one of service.

I know one dad who called up my friend the day before they were do in court, and told her he wasn't going to go or bother with it, which was a complete lie, so she didn't turn up and he did anyway...and the judge gave it to him even without her showing up. So there ya go.

vagazzled

Things can get really nasty with family court. You may qualify for Free Legal Aid for family court if under a certain salary- but as far as I know you could be waiting 3-4 long months for that. If you are in Dolphin House, the upstirs office has the details and time frame, but it's been a few years since I've been in there., or to be frank a solicitor specialising in family law with the flight risk there would be money well spent. You can't put a price n not being able to see your children.
If they are your children, you 'should' have gone about getting guardianship as soon as possible, for lots of reasons- medical, travel, school choice, just the fact you have a say in what goes on in your kids lives. Not having a go at you, it's just a simple fact that all involved fathers need to wise up to these days.
You are in a much stronger position with a solicitor to spell out everything to you, as it's an emotive process and you may find it nerve wracking, plus you have someone to call for advice should your suspicions deepen.
I have been through the family courts in Dolphin house for a couple of years when my son was growing up. I always kept guardianship, getting full custody after a protracted battle. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.
Also, I wonder if the mother in question was an Irish woman, Irish based and the father a foreign dad would the replies be the same on this thread?

zeffabelli

vagazzled wrote: »

Things can get really nasty with family court. You may qualify for Free Legal Aid for family court if under a certain salary- but as far as I know you could be waiting 3-4 long months for that. If you are in Dolphin House, the upstirs office has the details and time frame, but it's been a few years since I've been in there., or to be frank a solicitor specialising in family law with the flight risk there would be money well spent. You can't put a price n not being able to see your children.
If they are your children, you 'should' have gone about getting guardianship as soon as possible, for lots of reasons- medical, travel, school choice, just the fact you have a say in what goes on in your kids lives. Not having a go at you, it's just a simple fact that all involved fathers need to wise up to these days.
You are in a much stronger position with a solicitor to spell out everything to you, as it's an emotive process and you may find it nerve wracking, plus you have someone to call for advice should your suspicions deepen.
I have been through the family courts in Dolphin house for a couple of years when my son was growing up. I always kept guardianship, getting full custody after a protracted battle. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.
Also, I wonder if the mother in question was an Irish woman, Irish based and the father a foreign dad would the replies be the same on this thread?

I definitely think there are racial, xenophobic undertones to the responses on the thread.

ALso consider, OP you might get full custody, but the mother than will leave the country. This may seem A OK by you, but ultimately your child will feel abandoned by her and you will be coping with a child who was abandoned by their mother.

If you are going to oppose a move, you really can only oppose it if you are able to take the child on full time and be able to offer that while the mother leaves the country.

If you can't do that then your position is selfish.

power pants

zeffabelli wrote: »

I definitely think there are racial, xenophobic undertones to the responses on the thread.

ALso consider, OP you might get full custody, but the mother than will leave the country. This may seem A OK by you, but ultimately your child will feel abandoned by her and you will be coping with a child who was abandoned by their mother.

If you are going to oppose a move, you really can only oppose it if you are able to take the child on full time and be able to offer that while the mother leaves the country.

If you can't do that then your position is selfish.

Can you explain how you "definitely think there are racial,xenophobic undertones to the responses on the thread"?

I dont see any. An irish father is asking a question where a woman from another country is involved and looking for advice. That is not racist , it is answering a question given. People cry about racism and Xenophobia without knowing the meaning half the time.


Also, I dont think the father ever stated that he wanted to go for full custody

zeffabelli

power pants wrote: »

Can you explain how you "definitely think there are racial,xenophobic undertones to the responses on the thread"?

I dont see any. An irish father is asking a question where a woman from another country is involved and looking for advice. That is not racist , it is answering a question given. People cry about racism and Xenophobia without knowing the meaning half the time.


Also, I dont think the father ever stated that he wanted to go for full custody

OP cant expect her to stay in a foreign country with the child unless he can offer full custody. She has every right to go home, she just doesnt have the right to take the child with her. If she really wants to go home, he and he stops her via the courts, he risks her abandoning the child while she goes home.

I definitely think people have compassion bias for their own kind and if this were an Irish mother posting from abroad about wanting to come home, the whisteling would have a very different tune to it.

Parents leave their children all the time for other countries....don't think it doesn't happen.

FortySeven

zeffabelli wrote: »

OP cant expect her to stay in a foreign country with the child unless he can offer full custody. She has every right to go home, she just doesnt have the right to take the child with her. If she really wants to go home, he and he stops her via the courts, he risks her abandoning the child while she goes home.

I definitely think people have compassion bias for their own kind and if this were an Irish mother posting from abroad about wanting to come home, the whisteling would have a very different tune to it.

Parents leave their children all the time for other countries....don't think it doesn't happen.

As I've said in the thread, she never wanted to be in Poland. I am not applying for custody here but I will later. I don't expect or want full custody, that would not be fair on anyone. The fact that she will not give guardianship rights voluntarily when she has been fine with me being their father all this time tells the story fairly plainly.

It is very common for women to use the children against the father. This is in no way xenophobic or biased. It is a fact. There is a good chance she would take them to Poland just to hurt me. She is already using them as weapons and the court hasn't even begun, from my research on the subject it seems to be the norm.

LegacyUser

I think I understand what zefabelli is saying:

I left Ireland with my eldest after a bad break up. Her father had guardianship. He was sleeping with a mutual friend and I had no support here as we were in a small town. I had moved here to be with him. I was devastated and needed my own supports as well as had a job offer when I couldn't find anything here. He also began to get funny about money and it was damaging both myself and my daughter.

When the non Irish patent leaves its not always a case of trying to punish the Irish parent. Its not an easy decision to live in a foreign country and unfair to expect no comprise. The other parent also has family equally as important, needs a support mechanism (especially if they do the bulk of day to day care). Childcare us already crippling, imagine being foreign, with no convenient family to help and with few friends (who have their own childcare burdens). Then saying, stay in Ireland! I returned as I got another job offer actually that made it possible for my child to grow near enough her father but its been hard. I made the decision to come here for him initially and also to return later for our daughter.

That worked for me but I know another girl whose ex husband insisted she stay, knowing full well how isolated she was and finding it hard to cope both on welfare and alone. She took the child back and he followed her to get their son back. He now has full custody and that girls life us destroyed. Can't see her son and no means to come back and the ex has a new wife. She's a shadow of herself.

These things are very emotive and to be frank are very difficult to resolve with maturity if there is a lot of hurt.

Best to just be open with your ex OP. Even with the court issues. This is the mother if your child. If she stays she's in your life anyway. If she leaves you'll still have to communicate...best to try and get mediation if you can. Do get guardianship anyway because if she does leave and anything happens to her abroad you're the child's next of kin and it will stop trouble with extended family.

Bit speaking from my own experience you can't have enough dialogue about these things. The future is jot written in stone.

Taltos

Mod note
OK, so again - if you don't have constructive advice to offer or by your own admission don't know the area then don't post.
zeffabelli - don't post in this thread again. Your posts are not adding to the advice or aiding the OP, instead they are dragging this thread off topic. Posting as you have here will result in mod action up to and including a ban.

All off topic posts are now being deleted.

FortySeven

OK, I got the ball rolling. I downloaded the forms from the court website. Filled them in and went up to the court office. No good, must be typed. So, after filling them in using adobe PDF I took my three copies up and have a date of February the 9th for the hearing. They were not interested in fastracking the hearing, I have sent a copy of the order by registered post and she should receive it today. I am also going to hand a copy to her. Then I just have to get the statutory declaration stamped and witnessed at the court office declaring I have sent the document to her and showing the receipt for postage. They have a notary there that will sign as witness for a 10 euro fee.

The lady advised me to also make an application for access on the same hearing so I will start looking into that and add it on when I am in court to answer her barring order application in January. I am 100% sure that they will not grant her a barring order, most likely outcome is that she will be given a safety order which basically changes nothing due to me not actually being any kind of threat to her. She only wants the barring order so she can move me out of the house and have it to herself and start controlling my access to the kids. This is not going to happen.

arayess

FortySeven wrote: »

OK, I got the ball rolling. I downloaded the forms from the court website. Filled them in and went up to the court office. No good, must be typed. So, after filling them in using adobe PDF I took my three copies up and have a date of February the 9th for the hearing. They were not interested in fastracking the hearing, I have sent a copy of the order by registered post and she should receive it today. I am also going to hand a copy to her. Then I just have to get the statutory declaration stamped and witnessed at the court office declaring I have sent the document to her and showing the receipt for postage. They have a notary there that will sign as witness for a 10 euro fee.

The lady advised me to also make an application for access on the same hearing so I will start looking into that and add it on when I am in court to answer her barring order application in January. I am 100% sure that they will not grant her a barring order, most likely outcome is that she will be given a safety order which basically changes nothing due to me not actually being any kind of threat to her. She only wants the barring order so she can move me out of the house and have it to herself and start controlling my access to the kids. This is not going to happen.

I think you should get a solicitor even for the optics for the judge. they don't like people representing themselves , court has order ,decorum and fancy stuff etc...that the rabble don't adhere too - sad I know but it's the truth.
More importantly a family law solicitor knows the ins and out and tricks to pull.
You don't. i've been through lengthy bitter stuff in family court and I still don't. It's an art.

I'm not sure on the advice you received. I fast tracked hearings twice when i was being denied access to my son and were seen within 10 days both times.
you can always apply for an emergency hearing if child in danger etc... solicitor will know if this is justified or not...

Best of luck with it. I know it's not easy

FortySeven

She's done it, I don't ****ing believe it, they went to Polish school this morning and they have not come back, I have searched the computer history and there is ryanair and she has set up a throwaway email account that she left logged in. They flew out at 16.15 to Poland, she has booked herself seperate from the kids and the kids with her mother. I am ****ed now.

FortySeven

There is also history in the browser where she is looking for a job in Poland.

Diamond Doll

Get to the Gardaí ... you do have rights here, and she's doing herself no favours in courts in the future. I'm really sorry for what you're going through.

The Princess Bride

Please look after yourself FortySeven - you've a difficult road ahead and you need to be mentally, emotionally and physically strong to deal with it all.

I am horrified that a mother would do this to the father of her children, and deprive the children by taking them away from their father. I'll never understand some people.

Best of luck and take care.

andala

What a horrible situation...I think you should go to the Gardai first and report the abduction. At the same time try finding out their current address. No idea how helpful Polish police/courts will be if you don't have guardianship rights/custody, you may have to apply for paternity test first. Is your name on their birth certificates? If so, that may be enough.

I can't believe you can live with somebody for so many years, have children with them and then suddenly run away like that. It only comes to show how important it is for unmarried fathers to obtain the status of a legal guardian as soon as possible to avoid situations like yours.

A friend of mine managed to get his ex and their daughter extradited from the UK back to Poland a few years ago, but he was a recognised guardian of the child and both him and his ex are Polish so his position was a tad different to yours.

Best of luck 47!

fima

Hope you're ok Fortyseven and that the guards were helpful. You should be able to get this sorted but it will take time and it will have a very unsettling affect on the children. It's so unfair on them at the end of the day. Good Luck

stickybookmark

Hey really sorry to see this happen to you. Easy to put things like guardianship on the back burner when a relationship is going well. Are you in Dublin there is a support group for single fathers you can attend which could help to meet others that can empathise with you and provide advice:
http://www.uspi.ie/

Do you own your house or just renting? The fact the kids have irish passports will hopefully help you in court. I hope the court battles don't turn out to be very expensive. Best of luck with it

melissak

Would you consider moving to Poland? I am very sympathetic to you, but to the mother too. She is Polish, she most likely only stayed in Ireland to be with you and now you are not together she would prefer to be near her family etc. I have seen this happen so often to people I know where one is Irish and one is not. On one hand she can't just take them, on the other she can't be forced to stay in a country not her own. Someone has to have the kids, you can't divide them between you. There is no possible way this scenario can be made fair to everyone and always leaves one or more people heartbroken. My heart goes out to you on. I can't imagine how I would feel in your shoes, thank God.

melissak

AFAIK the Polish authorities are helpful really issues like this. A cousin of mine was in a similar boat and they ordered her to return to sort it out
He had to hire a private investigator etc though and the whole thing cost him a lot of money. I also know of many cases where the authorities were not helpful though so I wouldn't take it as a given that you will get a good result and it will undoubtedly annoy your ex, which might make things more difficult down the line rental visits etc. How old are the children

andala wrote: »

What a horrible situation...I think you should go to the Gardai first and report the abduction. At the same time try finding out their current address. No idea how helpful Polish police/courts will be if you don't have guardianship rights/custody, you may have to apply for paternity test first. Is your name on their birth certificates? If so, that may be enough.

I can't believe you can live with somebody for so many years, have children with them and then suddenly run away like that. It only comes to show how important it is for unmarried fathers to obtain the status of a legal guardian as soon as possible to avoid situations like yours.

A friend of mine managed to get his ex and their daughter extradited from the UK back to Poland a few years ago, but he was a recognised guardian of the child and both him and his ex are Polish so his position was a tad different to yours.

Best of luck 47!

Wompa1

Wow, that's awful! Sorry, OP. Best of luck

FortySeven

No news yet, I have been phoning, no answer, email, no answer. I managed to speak to her sister eventually but she won't tell me anything.

I contacted the Department for Justice and equality and they put me in touch with the central authority of international child abduction. They sent me out a veritable mountain of forms to fill in to make a return request under the Hague convention. They try to have proceedings completed in 6 weeks. I have my fingers crossed.

I don't relish this fight. I want to fly over there now but I'm sure it would only damage my case somehow if I act rashly.I hope she sees sense after christmas or this is going to get really ugly.

Wompa1

FortySeven wrote: »

No news yet, I have been phoning, no answer, email, no answer. I managed to speak to her sister eventually but she won't tell me anything.

I contacted the Department for Justice and equality and they put me in touch with the central authority of international child abduction. They sent me out a veritable mountain of forms to fill in to make a return request under the Hague convention. They try to have proceedings completed in 6 weeks. I have my fingers crossed.

I don't relish this fight. I want to fly over there now but I'm sure it would only damage my case somehow if I act rashly.I hope she sees sense after christmas or this is going to get really ugly.

Fair play to you for being so level headed. I have never been in such an awful situation and I hope I never am but I think you have the right mindset. Tread carefully. Make sure every move you make is the right one and helps your case.

I hope you took a copy of those e-mails and search history. Even some screenshots. Hell, it might be a good idea of getting a transcript from this thread to show the timeline and your concerns.

Good luck, OP!

FortySeven

Sorry, I just reread the thread.

Kids are 8 and 6, boy and girl. I'm not actually Irish. I am a UK national so neither of us have support of family here in Ireland.

fits

I cant offer any advice but just wanted to say that I am really sorry you are going through this.

FortySeven

Finally got an email after I forwarded the email from the Hague convention office accepting my case. I think she thought I was bluffing. The email was a load of tripe accusing me of many different types of abuse. All false. Also claiming the house was unsafe and accusing me of destroying it on purpose.

She really doesn't understand the dangers of dry rot. Perhaps if I had painted over it everything would be fine.

Still haven't heard anything about the kids. I'm afraid she will leave them with her parents and come back to work in Ireland. When I met her in Edinburgh years ago she had a daughter living in Poland with her parents. We brought her over to live with us when she was 9.

Hague application is in anyway and has been forwarded to poland. I have been so busy chasing offices, paperwork, lawyers and evidence I may need to defend myself.

It's going to be a shifty christmas this year.