Thinking of buying a new Qashqai? Read this first.

Carrigman

https://carrigmanblog.wordpress.com/2015/11/12/my-new-nissan-qashqai-from-kearys-of-cork/

CJhaughey

I never liked those electric handbrakes.
The old style takes more space in the cabin but in terms of reliability is far superior to the electric versions.
My friend had a LR discovery roll away from him on a steep hill because his electric handbrake failed.
Luckily no injuries but a big bill from the ESB for the Pole and his bodywork.

colm_mcm

Had the handbrake thing happen me on a Scenic before.
Any time I'm using something with an electronic parking brake (rare these days) I listen for the motor

bazz26

I've had an electronic parking brake on two cars now and neither have had any problems. Unless it's an auto it's good practice to leave the car parked in gear to avoid rolling in the event of handbrake failure whether electric or manual.

R.O.R

It's an even better idea to make sure you put the handbrake on before leaving the car, especially if you are going to leave the door open, rather than relying on the car to activate it itself.

Modern cars don't like doors being left open and can do strange things when you do. But obviously that is the dealers fault and warrants a long winded moany blog.

ofcork

I have one in my avensis and it has been trouble free so far i always leave the car in gear when parked though and always have done as any handbrake could fail.

Long Time Lurker

You can just tell the age profile of this customer and the fact that they're more than likely retired <twitches curtains from comfort of arm chair facing the front room window>

Give Joe a call. I'm sure the country needs to know this.

Good Jebsus

colm_mcm

ofcork wrote: »

I have one in my avensis and it has been trouble free so far i always leave the car in gear when parked though and always have done as any handbrake could fail.

The electric one in the avensis isn't auto is it?
I've only driven 09, but I think newer ones may be auto?

Toyotafanboi

I thought it was taught in "learning to drive 101" to park in gear when on a hill?

I doubt the technicians in Kearys are software programmers either, if they don't have the update they don't have the update.

I can understsnd your frustrations having such faults in a brand new car but it is a bit unfair to blacken Kearys name, what more could they do for you?

Contact Nissan Ireland to push for a software update. Does the handbrake really activate as soon as you turn the ignition off? I'd say you have to meet more criteria than that.

Drummerboy08

Kearys aren't at fault here, so essentially what you've done is defamed them and left yourself open to a legal case.

By the way, I thought it was good practice to leave a car parked in gear on an incline, no matter how slight? Surely an experienced driver such as yourself would know this?

Soarer

Park it in gear, with the wheels slightly turned in towards the kerb.

Jaysus.

Edit: I've just read your blog. Can't understand the Software fix thing. There's either a problem with the software, which would affect all cars, or there isn't. I don't think there's individual software going into each car.
And before you get the car fixed, why don't you go over to Keary's and see if they can recreate the problem? There's a bit of a hill there. Put a couple of blocks on the road a couple of feet behind the wheels, and get one of their staff to do exactly what you did. Or if you really want to test their bravery, get them to park one of their new cars a few feet behind yours and see if they'll trust the brake.

gk5000

Must try this out as driving a quashi at the moment and parking on a hill.
Not a fan on the electric handbrake but it does seem to work.

However he does not seem to have actually pulled the electric handbrake - but depended on the car to do it itself when he removed the key.

I know mostly it does apply the handbrake when you stop, but....

Also but,
1. there is hill assist which comes on when you stop on a hill so he may have felt that kicking in and thought the brake was on

2. Noticed one day.. I hit the electic handbrake on a hill before I was fully stopped...and it engaged...but then disengaged as it maybe though I was trying to move off again

Anyway...I am ultra careful with the electic handbrake as I don't fully trust it anyway...and don't think it would be much use as an emergency brake or
for ye olde handbrake turn

searay

I have an electric handbrake on my Passat. If I over-ride it, say because I'm reversing the car In my driveway and don't want bother with a seatbelt, it stays off when you next switch off the ignition.

If there was a hill in my driveway, my Passat would have rolled away. Assuming the qashqai's electrics are similar, a roll away could easily be caused by a driver over-riding the handbrake and then not switching it back on when he parks.

colm_mcm

I wonder what the owners manual has to say. Is the handbrake coming on automatically a feature or a back-up

gk5000

After extensive deliberation my money is on:
The guy jumped out of the car before it came to a complete stop, and the evidence of the open door points to this.

Irrespective: he neither set the handbrake manually nor checked that the system had set it automatically - so has no case.

Further money on a call of nature.

bazz26

In my F10 I always have the auto hold feature on (brilliant feature with the auto box) so when the engine is switched off the parking brake automatically engages. Strangely enough the manual F10 doesn't have the auto hold feature despite still having an electronic parking brake.

ofcork

colm_mcm wrote: »

The electric one in the avensis isn't auto is it?
I've only driven 09, but I think newer ones may be auto?

No its not auto has to be manually engaged but will go off automatically if engaged on a hill and go to move off.

SgtBob

I have a Qashqai (new model) and haven't ran into these issues. Though I do have a couple of gripes, but that's pretty normal with most cars and I won't bother putting them here.

As far as I know, for the electronic hand brake to engage, you have to have your foot on the brake pedal. I don't think it comes on otherwise. But like some others have said, being a bit wary of it, I always listen out for the hum.

Long Time Lurker

There's no doubt that it was the owner who screwed up. He then goes and a makes a show of himself by making a daytime TV style blog about what an idiot he is. People then react with shock horror and it all becomes a bit front page of da Headarld. Stupid is what stupid does hey!

wrt40

So you got a stop\start error, big deal. Give them the time they need to fix it. If they say they need new software to do so then who are you to argue with them. Your blog clearly highlights that you are not exactly a mechanic or well informed on such matters.

left the driver’s door slightly ajar as I was only going to be in the house for a few minutes and then be on my way

So you hoped out of the car, left the door open and just assumed that the car would automatuically apply the hand brake for you...and somehow Nissan are to blame? Right...

btw, the handbrake has a light on it and a very audible noise when it engages.

Kearys sell six different car makes

Sweet jesus man, bring it to a Nissan dealer before you go defaming Nissan on the internet!

Leprechaun77

Ok, as someone with no declared vested interest in Keary's or the motor trade, I'll give my tuppence worth to balance the debate here, albeit somewhat of a devils advocate stance.

This chap bought a new car which had a problem that was present from outset. This is not acceptable but let us put that down to bad luck. I would look to see how this is going to be rectified at this point. Two trips back and the issue is still present...another 4-6 weeks before a software patch is available? What a farce imo. This indicates that Nissan know about this problem and have commissioned a fix...that's good, but they are still selling cars knowing this fault can be present, no?

I don't buy into the fact that Keary's are an innocent bystander here. This chap is basically being told that it is Nissan Ireland he should be pushing for a fix?....not as far as I'm concerned. His contract is with the garage and they are implicit in the selling of a new car that is faulty. Whilst they are following up with Nissan, I must admit that the timescale for the fix is poor considering it is not a secondhand car. There is no defamation of Keary's here as far as I'm concerned as they are the selling agent of a faulty product.

Now where it gets interesting is the alleged faulty electronic handbrake. I will play the devils advocate on this and claim there is definitely a portion of blame to be laid at Nissan, and indeed their agent Keary's for not clearly outlining how the operation of this device should be handled. From a legal perspective I'm sure a case could be be made that Nissan (and in fact all manufacturer's) have changed the long established design of 'the handbrake' and failed to properly inform and educate users of the new procedures. (Please refer to owners manual does not cut it). My last three cars all had electronic handbrakes and never once was this even mentioned to me, or a demo offered of how they operate. I found out quite quickly by trial and error, but the likes of my mother or father would have had trouble learning. I believe there is some degree of negligence here on the part of the dealer and manufacturer.

Nissan have advised that no fault occurred with the electronic brake. That may be true, but the question needs to asked is whether the design and function of this device is sufficient in the first place, and whether there is sufficient redundancies built in for the ordinary Joe Soap? I don't believe there is.

Poor ole John Finn, obviously a Ford lover, regrets moving away from the beloved blue oval. Makes something about nothing on a blog. Isn't enough cringe in the world.

"I also, as was my previous practice with all my other cars, left the gear in neutral. (There is nothing in the handbook advising drivers not to do so.)

I left the driver’s door slightly ajar as I was only going to be in the house for a few minutes and then be on my way."

What an idiot.

billy few mates

Her indoors has a new Nissan Qashaqi and she's been back to the main dealer eight times in the last seven months with a fault (not this one), and she has to go back again with it in mid January when the next spare part they try will be available. The main dealer has been worse than useless as have Nissan Ireland where a customer services person was going to 'personally' see to it that it's fixed. She only chose this car because she already had one and loved it so much, suffice to say her next one won't be a Nissan.
Poor customer service, poor troubleshooting skills and poor communication....

Long Time Lurker

Leprechaun77 wrote: »

Now where it gets interesting is the alleged faulty electronic handbrake. I will play the devils advocate on this and claim there is definitely a portion of blame to be laid at Nissan, and indeed their agent Keary's for not clearly outlining how the operation of this device should be handled. From a legal perspective I'm sure a case could be be made that Nissan (and in fact all manufacturer's) have changed the long established design of 'the handbrake' and failed to properly inform and educate users of the new procedures. (Please refer to owners manual does not cut it). My last three cars all had electronic handbrakes and never once was this even mentioned to me, or a demo offered of how they operate. I found out quite quickly by trial and error, but the likes of my mother or father would have had trouble learning. I believe there is some degree of negligence here on the part of the dealer and manufacturer.

Nissan have advised that no fault occurred with the electronic brake. That may be true, but the question needs to asked is whether the design and function of this device is sufficient in the first place, and whether there is sufficient redundancies built in for the ordinary Joe Soap? I don't believe there is.

Ah stoooooooooooooooooop. This is Joe Duffy stuff.

You're just looking for an argument now. That's not devils advocate at all.

"Is whether the design and function of this device is sufficient in the first place"

Come on! Really!!!!

This is a storm in a teacup. Its a nothing. The guy just fancies a rant and other moaners just love jumping on the bandwagon. Stop now.

Leprechaun77

Long Time Lurker wrote: »

Ah stoooooooooooooooooop. This is Joe Duffy stuff.

You're just looking for an argument now. That's not devils advocate at all.

"Is whether the design and function of this device is sufficient in the first place"

Come on! Really!!!!

This is a storm in a teacup. Its a nothing. The guy just fancies a rant and other moaners just love jumping on the bandwagon. Stop now.

Listen, I'm just trying to add balance to the argument here and I think it is a valid point of view. My personal opinion is that if you cannot successfully operate a car and it's handbrake, electronic or otherwise, you probably should not be allowed on the road anyway. The fact of the matter is that people from 18-80+ are buying cars and the manufacturers have to bare this in mind. I would say though that most people had some sort of roll backwards, or a 'why the f#ck did the brake disengage there?' moment when using an electronic handbrake for the first time.

Kev1nDonn

I own the new QQ. The Stop/Start problem can be due to not lifting off the clutch quickly enough for the car's sensors. It is not necessarily a software fault so a firmware update may not be the solution.
As for not ensuring the handbrake has engaged - a good driver would not do that.
I also do not buy the new technology not properly explained argument. You should not be operating machinery if you do not understand it. If you have doubts or questions simply ask how it works.

Dai John

The world has gone mad about gadgets. What was wrong with handbrake cables or throttle cables ? So they broke an odd time but were easy to fix and cost a lot less. Most trucks now have automatic gearboxes as standard, in my day a driver was able to change gear with a crash box without using the clutch. If he could not change gear he should not have been driving.I met a man one day after he had an accident at a roundabout, claimed it was not his fault as his sat-nav did not show it. Shower of wimps with lame excuses to cover their bad driving.

Nonoperational

Whatever about anyone's opinions on handbrakes, the guy got out of his car, didn't engage the brake, left it in neutral and left the door open. Come on...

biko

This is not a Buying thread, rather a Consumer Issue, but I'll just move to main Motors forum.

Leonard Hofstadter

Well this has been an interesting thread for sure!

A couple of comments spring to mind.

1) Auto start-stop, well I understand your frustration, however a software update is just that, there is nothing the dealer can do until such time as they get it, though I do accept it is a pain. I wouldn't be too worried about any fuel savings, because in the real world away from the EU tests these systems don't save anything unless you're constantly stuck in traffic. Also, it's less wear and tear on the engine and in particular, the turbo if this system is not working, so I wouldn't be overly concerned. I turn it off on any car I have with such a feature, especially if it's a diesel as the whole procedure can cause the car to vibrate quite a bit.

2) Turning to the more serious issue, well I'm sorry that you have had to replace the driver's door, and claim it off the insurance. Unfortunately however this is down to driver error on your part. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but by your own admission, you left the car in neutral on a hill! This is the first thing you're told in a driving lesson (or at least I was), NEVER leave the car in neutral! I don't mean to sound rude, and I'm certainly not whiter than white myself when it comes to driving, but you can't be that great a driver if you've never done this.

Also, I've gone to the trouble of downloading the owner's manual for the Qashqai. Unfortunately, I couldn't find one for the latest Qashqai, but for the previous generation car the manual states the following on page 5-33:

"Safe parking procedure requires that.... the gear lever is placed in an appropriate gear for manual models". That's self-explanatory really. I can't see why Nissan wouldn't include a statement like this (or similar) in the current model if they went to the trouble of this before.

My assertion that your driving isn't as great as you make it out to be is backed up by the fact that you've also stated incorrect information in your blog and could lead other motorists to follow your advice with similarly catastrophic consequences. It is not true to state that the car should always be put into first gear when you turn it off. This is only useful if the car is facing upwards on a hill, as putting it in first prevents the car from going backwards (99.99% of the time - it is still possible under extreme circumstances for a car to go backwards in first). However, if the car is facing down on a hill then you might as well have put it in neutral. It is first facing up hills and reverse facing down a hill. On the flat it doesn't matter which one you choose.

Lastly, if there is no reported fault with the electronic parking brake then we must accept that there is. I very much doubt any even half decent garage would say an electronic parking brake was fine if it wasn't, especially in today's litigious culture. A light would have come up on the dashboard and a fault would have been logged in the car's diagnostics if there was a fault.

Sorry if this sounds harsh but this is the reality of the situation.

colm_mcm

Would disagree with saying putting it in first facing down a hill is useless.
Back in the day, before electronics, injection etc you'd be afraid to in case you accidentally effectively pushstarted a diesel.
Leaving in 1st will still usually help stop the car from rolling.

Voodoomelon

What I would be worried about is the following statement:

"It seems to me that the park-brake failure was related to the pre-existing Stop/Start fault. I have been advised that a car’s electronics are all related – a fault in, or damage to, one part for instance can often have a knock-on effect on another, seemingly unconnected, part. The fault in the electronics caused some momentary, one-off, de-activation of the park-brake and it rolled back. "

Unless this has been proven to be the case with your particular vehicle, i'd remove this straight away from your blog. Your entire accusation is based upon your own opinion, or that of an un-named party. You're leaving yourself wide open there, its pure speculation that one fault caused another.

The fact that something similar happened in the UK doesn't mean a whole lot. There was hundreds of reports of E65 7 Series running into walls and the fronts of houses when they came out, the Park button was allegedly failing when owners were parking up, yet no fault codes were being logged. Owners simply weren't pressing the button fully before releasing the brake.

ianobrien

Another case of cars rolling away (Focus i think but could be wrong) when the handbrake was applied was people were not pulling the handbrake hard enough. What was happening was people were applying the handbrake just enough to hold the car, but were applying it to a hot disc. The disc cooled and contracted, coming away from the clamping pads just enough for the car to roll.

Also, I know my car has hill hold and it releases after 1.5 seconds. I'm thinking that the car didn't think it was parked (door open) so when the hill hold released the car didn't apply the handbrake. Was the handbrake button pushed hard enough to engage?

colm_mcm

think that was the Citroen xantia that did that

slimjimmc

captainspeed wrote: »

My assertion that your driving isn't as great as you make it out to be is backed up by the fact that you've also stated incorrect information in your blog and could lead other motorists to follow your advice with similarly catastrophic consequences. It is not true to state that the car should always be put into first gear when you turn it off. This is only useful if the car is facing upwards on a hill, as putting it in first prevents the car from going backwards (99.99% of the time - it is still possible under extreme circumstances for a car to go backwards in first). However, if the car is facing down on a hill then you might as well have put it in neutral. It is first facing up hills and reverse facing down a hill. On the flat it doesn't matter which one you choose.

Rubbish.
Leaving the car in gear relies on engine compression overcoming gravity along the incline. The only difference between 1st gear and reverse is gearing ratio and if one gear holds better then hold's better regardless of orientation. Putting a car in reverse gear when facing downhill is no different to putting it in reverse facing uphill, the forces on the engine are identical. If the incline is too steep for the engine then the engine will rotate clockwise just as easily as anti-clockwise.

captainspeed

captainspeed wrote: »

...........However, if the car is facing down on a hill then you might as well have put it in neutral. It is first facing up hills and reverse facing down a hill. On the flat it doesn't matter which one you choose............

lol

That's brilliant :pac:

billy few mates

Regarding those little handbrake switches and their effectiveness, I have one on the Golf that I drive and I was driving along one day half day dreaming and idly 'fingering' the switch when I suddenly caught it with my nail and it engaged...:eek:

Let's just say I'm more careful where I leave my hand now and apologies for the brown trouser moment if you were the one driving behind me...

colm_mcm

Wouldn't thought it would have engaged at all, would have thought it would just beep. Unless you held the button for a long time.

digzy

searay wrote: »

I have an electric handbrake on my Passat. If I over-ride it, say because I'm reversing the car In my driveway and don't want bother with a seatbelt, it stays off when you next switch off the ignition.

If there was a hill in my driveway, my Passat would have rolled away. Assuming the qashqai's electrics are similar, a roll away could easily be caused by a driver over-riding the handbrake and then not switching it back on when he parks.

I've a 13 Passat too. The odd time the hb doesn't come on and I just flick it in with my finger. Not wanting to be condescending here but it's not a big deal to wait the half second to hear it come on or look at the dash for it..

Avns1s

billy few mates wrote: »

Regarding those little handbrake switches and their effectiveness, I have one on the Golf that I drive and I was driving along one day half day dreaming and idly 'fingering' the switch when I suddenly caught it with my nail and it engaged...:eek:

Let's just say I'm more careful where I leave my hand now and apologies for the brown trouser moment if you were the one driving behind me...

Your "handbrake" is also your "emergency brake" and even the electronic ones (any I have come across anyway) will come on, once you hold the button. Normally isn't immediate as in, it may take a second or so of holding before it activates.

gctest50

slimjimmc wrote: »

Rubbish.
Leaving the car in gear relies on engine compression overcoming gravity along the incline. The only difference between 1st gear and reverse is gearing ratio and ............

nope, its just a throwback to when diesel things had a pull-to-stop instead of electric fuel cutoff

if it was in first facing downhill and started to roll away, it might start up and hasten the disaster

ba_barabus

colm_mcm wrote: »

Wouldn't thought it would have engaged at all, would have thought it would just beep. Unless you held the button for a long time.

If you hold the button down it will activate the handbrake as an emergency brake.

colm_mcm

ba_barabus wrote: »

If you hold the button down it will activate the handbrake as an emergency brake.

doesn't it beep first?

What good is an 'emergency brake' if you have to hold it for a second or two before it activates? I'd be against electronic handbrakes on the grounds that they're useless/dangerous emergency brakes (id imagine it's a random button that could be pressed by kids etc, whereas a conventional handbrake would be much more difficult to engage for anyone that's not the driver).


I had a very close call before, where I nearly side swiped a car that pulled out from a side road in front of me. I danced on the brakes, and then pulled the handbrake. Came very close to hitting him (I'm shocked I didn't, to be honest, it was that close. I was actually convinced I did hit him initially). In that situation, with an electronic brake, I'd have been sitting in his car with him.

Traditional handbrake is something I'd insist on in a car. Would never buy one with an electronic handbrake. It's such an effective/necessary aid when emergency stopping.


Maybe I'm just old fashioned though. I only drove two cars with electronic brakes and both caused me a bit of discomfort (especially as I often pull the handbrake on hills for hill starts and such, to eliminate any potential for rolling at all).

La Fenetre

billy few mates wrote: »

Her indoors has a new Nissan Qashaqi and she's been back to the main dealer eight times in the last seven months with a fault (not this one), and she has to go back again with it in mid January when the next spare part they try will be available. The main dealer has been worse than useless as have Nissan Ireland where a customer services person was going to 'personally' see to it that it's fixed. She only chose this car because she already had one and loved it so much, suffice to say her next one won't be a Nissan.
Poor customer service, poor troubleshooting skills and poor communication....

Looks like the new model Quashqai is fast becoming the new Renault Scenic.

Should have bought a Hyundai.

colm_mcm

Deleted User wrote: »

What good is an 'emergency brake' if you have to hold it for a second or two before it activates? I'd be against electronic handbrakes on the grounds that they're useless/dangerous emergency brakes (id imagine it's a random button that could be pressed by kids etc, whereas a conventional handbrake would be much more difficult to engage for anyone that's not the driver).


I had a very close call before, where I nearly side swiped a car that pulled out from a side road in front of me. I danced on the brakes, and then pulled the handbrake. Came very close to hitting him (I'm shocked I didn't, to be honest, it was that close. I was actually convinced I did hit him initially). In that situation, with an electronic brake, I'd have been sitting in his car with him.

Traditional handbrake is something I'd insist on in a car. Would never buy one with an electronic handbrake. It's such an effective/necessary aid when emergency stopping.


Maybe I'm just old fashioned though. I only drove two cars with electronic brakes and both caused me a bit of discomfort (especially as I often pull the handbrake on hills for hill starts and such, to eliminate any potential for rolling at all).

why would you pull the handbrake to help you slow down?

Avns1s

Deleted User wrote: »

What good is an 'emergency brake' if you have to hold it for a second or two before it activates? I'd be against electronic handbrakes on the grounds that they're useless/dangerous emergency brakes (id imagine it's a random button that could be pressed by kids etc, whereas a conventional handbrake would be much more difficult to engage for anyone that's not the driver).


I had a very close call before, where I nearly side swiped a car that pulled out from a side road in front of me. I danced on the brakes, and then pulled the handbrake. Came very close to hitting him (I'm shocked I didn't, to be honest, it was that close. I was actually convinced I did hit him initially). In that situation, with an electronic brake, I'd have been sitting in his car with him.

Traditional handbrake is something I'd insist on in a car. Would never buy one with an electronic handbrake. It's such an effective/necessary aid when emergency stopping.


Maybe I'm just old fashioned though. I only drove two cars with electronic brakes and both caused me a bit of discomfort (especially as I often pull the handbrake on hills for hill starts and such, to eliminate any potential for rolling at all).

I would have thought that "emergency brake" was for an unlikely event where your footbrake had failed.

I honestly have no idea why you would use a handbrake regardless of whether is was electronic or manual, in the situation you describe. In fact, had you managed to engage it before the footbrake was doing its job, then you could very easily have spun the car and lost control completely.

colm_mcm

Yep. Handbrake would usually only utilise the back brakes and apply far less pressure than you could with servo assisted footbrake, and would hinder the ABS and brake-assist if anything.

The Sidewards Man

The electronic handbrake is ruining the boy racer experience.

ba_barabus

colm_mcm wrote: »

doesn't it beep first?

Yep pretty loudly too. You'd be aware of what was about to happen.

I've used the handbrake to stop a car when a brave pipe burst before but I was lucky I had a lot of road and could raise it gently. I don't know if I'd like to use an electronic one if it just went on fully.

Toyotafanboi

The electronic handbrake button in the Astra is in the exact same place as the electric window button in the Celica.

When i'm coming up to the N25 toll I hold the window switch in the Celica for 2 seconds to use the auto down function so I can comb the cupholder for change.

Every - single - time in the Astra coming up to the toll I hold the handbrake switch for two seconds from force of habbit in the other car. You hear three dings for a warning and you know what's coming :pac: it doesn't jam on and put you out the window but it does come to a very quick stop. If you dip the clutch and let it out again it undoes it.