icbf salaries

angusangus

With all the scandium of the IFA salaries does anyone know what the icbf heads are paid? I personally don't have much faith in how they work but I do like the general concept of what they do

ganmo

angusangus wrote: »

With all the scandium of the IFA salaries does anyone know what the icbf heads are paid? I personally don't have much faith in how they work but I do like the general concept of what they do

State board afik submit an foi request

Or ask them

http://www.icbf.com/?page_id=635

angusangus

ganmo wrote: »

State board afik submit an foi request

Or ask them

http://www.icbf.com/?page_id=635

Is it not been asked already in light of recent events? I see Few of the IFA heads involved

blackdog1

angusangus wrote: »

Is it not been asked already in light of recent events? I see Few of the IFA heads involved

Anything funded by farmers should have transparent figures on wages and that includes teagasc too

stanflt

angusangus wrote: »

With all the scandium of the IFA salaries does anyone know what the icbf heads are paid? I personally don't have much faith in how they work but I do like the general concept of what they do

Icbf has been nothing short of the greatest revolution in cattle breeding and monitoring and collecting of data
For years we relied on false word of mouth from other countries and now we have a very progressive dairy industry
45% in increase in milk production across Europe came from our small country

Farmer Ed

blackdog1 wrote: »

Anything funded by farmers should have transparent figures on wages and that includes teagasc too

I agree is Downey getting still €30k from teagasc. Or has he resigned from that also?

Sorry my mistake. Its O Leary on the board of Teagasc.

angusangus

stanflt wrote: »

Icbf has been nothing short of the greatest revolution in cattle breeding and monitoring and collecting of data
For years we relied on false word of mouth from other countries and now we have a very progressive dairy industry
45% in increase in milk production across Europe came from our small country

Yes they have brought the national dairy herd to a whole new level! Great work there!
Back to my question ! Where could one see what salaries we the farmers are paying them?

Greengrass1

Be some craic when it's found what the top boys in the GAA are getting

Farmer Ed

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Be some craic when it's found what the top boys in the GAA are getting

You talking about Frank?

boggerman1

Farmer Ed wrote: »

You talking about Frank?

You beat me to it.

Farmer Ed

To be honest Angusangus, when you first asked the question, I thought the ICBF maybe was one of the more innocent ones. But on closer inspection it also seems to be controlled by IFA. One from munster cattle breeders and one from IHFA are also infact Dairygold board members and as Dairygold farmers have repeatedly seen, Dairygold and IFA might as well be one organisation.

Board of Directors ICBF

Chairman

Mr John O’Sullivan, Farmer, (IHFA)
Vice-Chairman

Mr Michael Doran, Farmer, (IFA)
Members

Dr Dave Beehan, Chief Livestock Inspector, (DAFM)
Mr Patrick Kelly (Progressive Genetics)
Dr Pat Mulvehill, Chief Executive (Munster AI)
Dr Ger Ryan, General Manager (Dovea Genetics)
Mr Tim Fitzgerald, Farmer, (ICMSA)
Mr Vincent Gorman, Farmer, (Progressive Genetics)
Mr Tom Wilson, Farmer, (ICMSA)
Mr Kevin Kinsella, Director of Livestock (IFA)
Mr Henry Burns, Farmer, (IFA)
Mr Richard Whelan, Farmer, (IHFA)
Mr Martin Ryan, Farmer, (Beef Herdbooks)
Mr James Lynch, Farmer, (Munster AI)
Mr Paddy Ryan, Farmer, (Munster AI)
Mr Kevin Keirsey, Farmer, (IFA)
Company Secretary

Mr John Carty, Inspector, (DAFM)

patsy_mccabe

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Be some craic when it's found what the top boys in the GAA are getting

Thou shall not touch that sacred cow!
I remember when Ger Loughnane went to train the Galway hurling team, there were all sorts of rumours about his pay. His reply was - "Well, let's have an honest and open discussion about manager pay". Nobody opened their mouth. Big can of worms to be opened there.

Farmer Ed

The closer you look at this it seems like a relatively small number of politically elite type people, somehow have found a knack for becoming serial board members.
None of us really know for sure what we are paying them, but from the revelations of the last couple of weeks, it seems like very nice work if you can get it.

Greengrass1

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Thou shall not touch that sacred cow!
I remember when Ger Loughnane went to train the Galway hurling team, there were all sorts of rumours about his pay. His reply was - "Well, let's have an honest and open discussion about manager pay". Nobody opened their mouth. Big can of worms to be opened there.

You can't compare a voluntary organisation to a paid one

patsy_mccabe

Greengrass1 wrote: »

You can't compare a voluntary organisation to a paid one

In what sense? County secretaries are paid. Openly admit to it.

Farmer Ed

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

In what sense? County secretaries are paid. Openly admit to it.

There are paid staff in the GAA also. One is said to have written his own contract.

keep going

Farmer Ed wrote: »

To be honest Angusangus, when you first asked the question, I thought the ICBF maybe was one of the more innocent ones. But on closer inspection it also seems to be controlled by IFA. One from munster cattle breeders and one from IHFA are also infact Dairygold board members and as Dairygold farmers have repeatedly seen, Dairygold and IFA might as well be one organisation.

Board of Directors ICBF

Chairman

Mr John O’Sullivan, Farmer, (IHFA)
Vice-Chairman

Mr Michael Doran, Farmer, (IFA)
Members

Dr Dave Beehan, Chief Livestock Inspector, (DAFM)
Mr Patrick Kelly (Progressive Genetics)
Dr Pat Mulvehill, Chief Executive (Munster AI)
Dr Ger Ryan, General Manager (Dovea Genetics)
Mr Tim Fitzgerald, Farmer, (ICMSA)
Mr Vincent Gorman, Farmer, (Progressive Genetics)
Mr Tom Wilson, Farmer, (ICMSA)
Mr Kevin Kinsella, Director of Livestock (IFA)
Mr Henry Burns, Farmer, (IFA)
Mr Richard Whelan, Farmer, (IHFA)
Mr Martin Ryan, Farmer, (Beef Herdbooks)
Mr James Lynch, Farmer, (Munster AI)
Mr Paddy Ryan, Farmer, (Munster AI)
Mr Kevin Keirsey, Farmer, (IFA)
Company Secretary

Mr John Carty, Inspector, (DAFM)

another way of looking at things is so few are willing to stick their neck out that have capabilties they get all the jobs.from the different organisations im involved with from the schools,church ,gaa, coop i see that the same people are doing all the work in every organisation and then all the cute boys bitching ,moaning and complaining but doing absolutely sweet shag all but finding fault with what is being done.nothing stopping anyone going for these jobs,you just have put the time in

cute geoge

Well as we at it ,it would be a pity not to find out what the chiefs of bord bia and ahi are on surely a handier number then anybody in the ifa

Farmer Ed

Well I think one thing all of us seem to be in agreement is that no matter what circus you attend in this country, you are very likely to be entertained by the same clowns.

Keep going, There is no one doubting the ability of these people. It would appear from the revelations of the last few weeks, that they are most likely to be well capable of looking after themselves.

Panch18

stanflt wrote: »

Icbf has been nothing short of the greatest revolution in cattle breeding and monitoring and collecting of data
For years we relied on false word of mouth from other countries and now we have a very progressive dairy industry
45% in increase in milk production across Europe came from our small country

Tut tut Stan

Never let the truth get in the way of a good witch hunt!!

keep going

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Well I think one thing all of us seem to be in agreement is that no matter what circus you attend in this country, you are very likely to be entertained by the same clowns.

Keep going, There is no one doubting the ability of these people. It would appear from the revelations of the last few weeks, that they are most likely to be well capable of looking after themselves.

well arent you the bigger clown to be working hard for your money when you could have it as handy.just out of curiosity could you give an outline of any roles you have filled in organisations

Farmer Ed

keep going wrote: »

well arent you the bigger clown to be working hard for your money when you could have it as handy.just out of curiosity could you give an outline of any roles you have filled in organisations

Without reveling my identity yes I have been involved in a few things in my time. I have in the past wasted petrol and diesel in support of IFA for example.
It became very apparent to me at an early stage that it was nothing but an old boys club.

Can you give me an outline of any roles you have filled?

angusangus

keep going wrote: »

another way of looking at things is so few are willing to stick their neck out that have capabilties they get all the jobs.from the different organisations im involved with from the schools,church ,gaa, coop i see that the same people are doing all the work in every organisation and then all the cute boys bitching ,moaning and complaining but doing absolutely sweet shag all but finding fault with what is being done.nothing stopping anyone going for these jobs,you just have put the time in

There is a job for everyone and a wage ! Some people's wages don't reflect their lack of talent ! Maybe if they concentrated on one organisation ! And of coarse some people believe they are far more talented than they are! I know the type of guys your talking about! The ones that are involved in schools churches coops and any committee really that will accept them ! They would form a committee to police crows gathering on telephone lines ! Those people yes I know them

ganmo

angusangus wrote: »

There is a job for everyone and a wage ! Some people's wages don't reflect their lack of talent ! Maybe if they concentrated on one organisation ! And of coarse some people believe they are far more talented than they are! I know the type of guys your talking about! The ones that are involved in schools churches coops and any committee really that will accept them ! They would form a committee to police crows gathering on telephone lines ! Those people yes I know them

I don't think thats the ppl he ment. sometimes there are no volenteers for positions on exisiting boards due to, so it ends up going to the same few ppl

fyi if you want one of them cushy state board jobs... http://www.stateboards.ie/stateboards/home.htm

keep going

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Without reveling my identity yes I have been involved in a few things in my time. I have in the past wasted petrol and diesel in support of IFA for example.
It became very apparent to me at an early stage that it was nothing but an old boys club.

Can you give me an outline of any roles you have filled?

so you just left the status quo carry on.yeah done the playschool ,coop,gaa club,when ever i have been asked to do something ,i have done it.never once looked for a job

kowtow

Greengrass1 wrote: »

You can't compare a voluntary organisation to a paid one

The IFA & it's contributions are voluntary.

They don't have to take your money and pay themselves salaries that would shame a banker, they choose to.

blackdog1

stanflt wrote: »

Icbf has been nothing short of the greatest revolution in cattle breeding and monitoring and collecting of data
For years we relied on false word of mouth from other countries and now we have a very progressive dairy industry
45% in increase in milk production across Europe came from our small country

Don't agree with that false word of mouth statement. Other countries had same data just not grass based. We didn't invent the system we just reinvented it for a grass based system. Doesn't matter how good a job they are doing their salaries if funded by farmers should be known by farmers.

stanflt

blackdog1 wrote: »

Don't agree with that false word of mouth statement. Other countries had same data just not grass based. We didn't invent the system we just reinvented it for a grass based system. Doesn't matter how good a job they are doing their salaries if funded by farmers should be known by farmers.

While I may be predominantly grass based I do feed the cows more than 1.5ton of concentrate per annum

High milk foreign bulls never delivered here
Loads of promise but that's where it ended

ganmo

blackdog1 wrote: »

Don't agree with that false word of mouth statement. Other countries had same data just not grass based. We didn't invent the system we just reinvented it for a grass based system. Doesn't matter how good a job they are doing their salaries if funded by farmers should be known by farmers.

so you should know what the man behind the counter in the coop is getting?

blackdog1

stanflt wrote: »

While I may be predominantly grass based I do feed the cows more than 1.5ton of concentrate per annum

High milk foreign bulls never delivered here
Loads of promise but that's where it ended

I'm not disputing that your getting better results now . I'm disputing the that you said it was word of mouth. They had figures and data to back up their indexs . I however agree with you that a lot of foreign bulls were too much milk based and not focused enough on fertility. You must remember probably a lot of your best cows were off foreign bulls and gave you a great base , so when you crossed them with high fertility bulls you obviously got great results and will continue to do so.

blackdog1

ganmo wrote: »

so you should know what the man behind the counter in the coop is getting?

No but I'd like to know what the man on the top is and what is the average salary at each level. I'd like to know what board members are getting and if they are earning it. If people are getting paid properly I have no problem but if they are getting paid outrageous money I have a problem with it. I think RTE said it would take 229 years for the average farmer to earn what Smith got as severance pay.

ganmo

so i take it i'm the only one who bothered to actually look for icbf financial reports...

longgonesilver

ganmo wrote: »

so i take it i'm the only one who bothered to actually look for icbf financial reports...

Here you go. 2001 - 2014 All on the one page. Lots of information on employees down the end of 2014.

If every organisation is as well organised as ICBF are...

longgonesilver

longgonesilver wrote: »

Here you go. 2001 - 2014 All on the one page. Lots of information on employees down the end of 2014.

If every organisation is as well organised as ICBF are...

Twenty four hours later and I realise I forgot the link.:rolleyes:

http://www.icbf.com/?page_id=319


Sorry

Bellview

longgonesilver wrote: »

Twenty four hours later and I realise I forgot the link.:rolleyes:

http://www.icbf.com/?page_id=319


Sorry

would be good to see couglan salary along... while the hunt is on ... what about Teagasc also

ganmo

Bellview wrote: »

would be good to see couglan salary along... while the hunt is on ... what about Teagasc also

Teagasc reports have even more detail than the icbf report

bogman_bass

blackdog1 wrote: »

No but I'd like to know

Just because you'd like to know doesn't mean you have a right to know

angusangus

bogman_bass wrote: »

Just because you'd like to know doesn't mean you have a right to know

Actually I think you will find he does have a right to know

Farmer Ed

bogman_bass wrote: »

Just because you'd like to know doesn't mean you have a right to know

If the boys are serious about full transparency , then the remuneration of all Directors and Executives of bodies such as this should be known. To be fair the remuneration of all the state boards are published now. If we as farmers are paying for something, we should have a right to know where our money is going.

ganmo

Farmer Ed wrote: »

If the boys are serious about full transparency , then the remuneration of all Directors and Executives of bodies such as this should be known. To be fair the remuneration of all the state boards are published now. If we as taxpayers are paying for something, we should have a right to know where our money is going.

the same argument as the publishing of sfp payments. Farmers have no extra right to know the salaries of public bodies than joe blogs tax payer

Farmer Ed

ganmo wrote: »

the same argument as the publishing of sfp payments.

Exactly and who won that argument? If its good for the goose its good for the gander. The same principle should apply.

Bellview

ganmo wrote: »

Teagasc reports have even more detail than the icbf report

What page can I see salary and names like a plc shows it's directors. Icbf report does not give detail of coughlan salary only general numbers like a farmers accounts

Farmer Ed

Bellview wrote: »

What page can I see salary and names like a plc shows it's directors. Icbf report does not give detail of coughlan salary only general numbers like a farmers accounts

Im guessing the problem there is like co ops and IFA they are not subject to the same laws as regular businesses.

juror

Farmer Ed wrote: »

To be honest Angusangus, when you first asked the question, I thought the ICBF maybe was one of the more innocent ones. But on closer inspection it also seems to be controlled by IFA. One from munster cattle breeders and one from IHFA are also infact Dairygold board members and as Dairygold farmers have repeatedly seen, Dairygold and IFA might as well be one organisation.

Board of Directors ICBF

Chairman

Mr John O’Sullivan, Farmer, (IHFA)
Vice-Chairman

Mr Michael Doran, Farmer, (IFA)
Members

Dr Dave Beehan, Chief Livestock Inspector, (DAFM)
Mr Patrick Kelly (Progressive Genetics)
Dr Pat Mulvehill, Chief Executive (Munster AI)
Dr Ger Ryan, General Manager (Dovea Genetics)
Mr Tim Fitzgerald, Farmer, (ICMSA)
Mr Vincent Gorman, Farmer, (Progressive Genetics)
Mr Tom Wilson, Farmer, (ICMSA)
Mr Kevin Kinsella, Director of Livestock (IFA)
Mr Henry Burns, Farmer, (IFA)
Mr Richard Whelan, Farmer, (IHFA)
Mr Martin Ryan, Farmer, (Beef Herdbooks)
Mr James Lynch, Farmer, (Munster AI)
Mr Paddy Ryan, Farmer, (Munster AI)
Mr Kevin Keirsey, Farmer, (IFA)
Company Secretary

Mr John Carty, Inspector, (DAFM)

Ned, you have had it in for Dairygold with quite some time and it appears with anyone willing to get involved in a voluntary capacity for the benifit of others.

Many of those you have listed give up days and weeks away from their farms to assist in running these organisations while you continue to preach while sitting on the fence.

Farmer Ed

It's amazing how people jump to assumptions on here , accusing others of never doing their civic duty without knowing the person involved. Ah sure wouldn't your heart bleed for anyone who gives up their time for example to sit on the board of teagasc. God help them. What was it poor Tim got paid from Teagasc again? Seeing as you brought up dairygold. What do those poor board members get paid? Maybe that's why we're never told. It's all down to their modesty. All we know is 4 of them decide their own pay and Henchy was on 580k a year plus bonuses plus experiences. It must be an awful burden for people who find it in their hearts to give their time so freely.

juror

Farmer Ed wrote: »

It's amazing how people jump to assumptions on here , accusing others of never doing their civic duty without knowing the person involved. Ah sure wouldn't your heart bleed for anyone who gives up their time for example to sit on the board of teagasc. God help them. What was it poor Tim got paid from Teagasc again? Seeing as you brought up dairygold. What do those poor board members get paid? Maybe that's why we're never told. It's all down to their modesty. All we know is 4 of them decide their own pay and Henchy was on 580k a year plus bonuses plus experiences. It must be an awful burden for people who find it in their hearts to give their time so freely.

You are jumping to the assumption that the Dairygold board are getting paid excessively, what are you basing those assumptions on?

And what do you believe would be a reasonable sum to compensate the time they spend away from their own businesses?

Farmer Ed

juror wrote: »

You are jumping to the assumption that the Dairygold board are getting paid excessively, what are you basing those assumptions on?

And what do you believe would be a reasonable sum to compensate the time they spend away from their own businesses?

You see that is the funny thing. In the absence of transparency people make assumptions.

I think it is not unreasonable to assume that anyone who has effectively the freedom to decide how much to pay himself could find it difficult not to compensate himself well. That unfortunately is the crazy way Co Op remuneration is decided.

I think it makes an ever strengthening case for full transparency.

juror

Farmer Ed wrote: »

You see that is the funny thing. In the absence of transparency people make assumptions.

I think it is not unreasonable to assume that anyone who has effectively the freedom to decide how much to pay himself could find it difficult not to compensate himself well. That unfortunately is the crazy way Co Op remuneration is decided.

I think it makes an ever strengthening case for full transparency.

Equally reasonable to assume the renumeration they receive is fair and sensible.

So what renumeration would you see as adequate for a Co-op board member?

Farmer Ed

juror wrote: »

Equally reasonable to assume the renumeration they receive is fair and sensible.

So what renumeration would you see as adequate for a Co-op board member?

In the likes of the west cork co ops. Who by the way continue to pay by far the highest price for milk and who have published what they pay their directors. I think they get something like a hundred euro for every day away from the farm, just to cover the costs of getting someone in while away from the farm.

If as you suggest other organisations are paying remuneration that is fair and sensible. Why just not publish it?

By the way its remuneration not renumeration. I know it's a big word and all but I guess we are talking about the same thing.

juror

Farmer Ed wrote: »

In the likes of the west cork co ops. Who by the way continue to pay by far the highest price for milk and who have published what they pay their directors. I think they get something like a hundred euro for every day away from the farm, just to cover the costs of getting someone in while away from the farm.

If as you suggest other organisations are paying remuneration that is fair and sensible. Why just not publish it?

By the way its remuneration not renumeration. I know it's a big word and all but I guess we are talking about the same thing.

West cork co-ops milk price is supported by a foods ingredients business they have in south america.

They get €100 or you think they get that sum?
Debate with actual facts rather than what you THINK or ASSUME.

So again, what should the board members of Dairygold Co-op receive as pay/expenses for their time directing the co-op?
And are you aware of how many days they attend meetings or other duties of being a director.

And don't get petty over the misuse of a word, you are fully aware of what i intended.

Farmer Ed

juror wrote: »

West cork co-ops milk price is supported by a foods ingredients business they have in south america.

They get €100 or you think they get that sum?
Debate with actual facts rather than what you THINK or ASSUME.

So again, what should the board members of Dairygold Co-op receive as pay/expenses for their time directing the co-op?
And are you aware of how many days they attend meetings or other duties of being a director.

And don't get petty over the misuse of a word, you are fully aware of what i intended.

My apologies Drinagh get 150 a day plus mileage. I would say a bit on the generous side but at least its transparent and published in their annual report.
I think most farmers couldn't care less how west cork manage to pay for milk. The fact they can pay the highest price would suggest they are doing something right. I have copied and pasted the following from Drinaghs 2014 annual report. Maybe a lesson in transparency for others.

Board members who attend monthly, special, audit committee and investment committee meetings receive a
fee of €150 per full day meeting attended plus mileage allowance (both of which are subjected to PAYE, PRSI
and Levies in arriving at the net amount paid). Board members who attend other meetings (including certain
courses) on Society business receive the same fee and are re-imbursed for expense outlay incurred. Board
members who attend relevant continuing education courses have associated costs re-imbursed.