Foreign restoration workshop

pryantcc

Hi folks,
Has anyone had any experience sending cars to Eastern Europe or elsewhere for restoration work?

avaconirl

One problem you may have it is a long way away and you may not get to see your car in the flesh to often. It is better to see your car during the restoration and have a relationship with the guys doing the car. If any thing goes wrong after the job is done maybe ther was a language problem and it is a long way away to have an argument. It maybe cheaper but sometimes you get what you pay for remember the parts usually come from the same place and the labour may be cheap. Remember buyer beware.

Diabhalta

I just put together a very long post about this but I refreshed the page by accident and it's gone now

It would save you tons of money (engine rebuilt here for 3000 euro would cost 1500 euro there - 100% job done by a professional engineer), but you need contacts that would do the research and make sure eveything is fine.

Max Headroom

How could you possibly trust them, its bad enough here...

Diabhalta

Max Headroom wrote: »

How could you possibly trust them, its bad enough here...

That is a very stupid comment. "them" ... really? Like the whole country (like Czech republic for example) that has an astonishing history of great industrial achievements (all kinds of cars, buses, trucks, trams, planes and trains were and are are made there) isn't trustworthy? If you send a carburettor there for a rebuilt, it will be done properly (for 150 quid including postage). If you send it do Dublin you will get it back with loose screws and one screw from auto choke missing (lime it happened to me). And it was 250 euro. You apparently have no idea what are you talking about.

pryantcc

Max Headroom wrote: »

How could you possibly trust them, its bad enough here...

This is 99% of the problem. However, I have almost as much difficulty with finding an Irish operation that can be trusted. It's only slightly easier in Ireland because I could visit more regularly to see the work and I'm more likely to find recommendations from people I know.
The key for me with an overseas firm would be to either find someone local that I know, or have a recommendation from someone I know.
The fact that a company is based in a different country has almost no effect on the risks of getting taken for a ride. In fact, you could well argue that some countries are a safer bet than Ireland due to their culture placing a higher value on honour and quality than the Irish "Sure it'll do" or "Sure who'll ever see it?".

Diabhalta

I think if there will be dozen of people from a car club o inn a foreign country saying "this guy is really good" about a mechanic I think it doesn't matter where are you and your car from.

Testacalda

Diabhalta wrote: »

If you send it do Dublin you will get it back with loose screws and one screw from auto choke missing

So generalising the quality of work from an entire country is wrong, but doing the same for the entire county of Dublin is fine?

I understand you are using your experience as an example, and perhaps the place you went to in Dublin was bad, but surely that doesn't mean all places in dublin are? I got a Carb reconditioned for my Merc in Nottingham St, in Dublin 3 weeks ago, top notch work!

In reality, there will be good places and dodgy places in every county in Ireland, and in every country in the world. Its up to the potential customer to do their homework and satisfy themselves that a company can do the job right, before giving them work. Common sense really

ht9zni1gs28crp

The right guys are out there in Ireland to do this work, its down to the customers budget from there.

If he/she can get similar work done for 60% of the Irish cost by going abroad then its potentially a no brainer...

Diabhalta

Testacalda wrote: »

So generalising the quality of work from an entire country is wrong, but doing the same for the entire county of Dublin is fine?

I understand you are using your experience as an example, and perhaps the place you went to in Dublin was bad, but surely that doesn't mean all places in dublin are? I got a Carb reconditioned for my Merc in Nottingham St, in Dublin 3 weeks ago, top notch work!

In reality, there will be good places and dodgy places in every county in Ireland, and in every country in the world. Its up to the potential customer to do their homework and satisfy themselves that a company can do the job right, before giving them work. Common sense really

Is there any other place than the one in Nottingham st? (perhaps there are engineering centres with excellent references in Kildare, Wicklow, Kerry and Donegal I don't know about) I got the carb refurbished in the same company as you so I presume you were lucky (or I was unlucky). It just makes me wonder if I get a carb like this how does it look like inside, is it really refurbished, or just cleaned and few random things replaced?

As said above, this typical Irish "Sure it'll do" or "Sure who'll ever see it" is a major factor why there are many things just done poorly in Ireland. Compare 100 year old houses in a countryside somewhere in central europe and houses in Irish country side. Crooked buildings that are most likely vacated by now because of the quality of Irish engineering (if you can call it engineering ) ...some streets in Cork where Irish engineering played a major role are just plain weird. You drive a car on a street with certain width, so it is fine for two way traffic and all of a sudden it gets more narrow until you have to stop, because there is no space for you and the car coming in the opposite direction. Why and how is this even possible? Back then when they built those houses they couldn't make the streets wide enough everywhere? This makes no sense whatsoever.

Back to cars - Ireland just isn't friendly to anything a bit older and because of no heavy industry over here, there are no people that could fix the machinery (I had to drive 2x70km to have my old car fixed and then collect it - wtf?). I bought an older BMW as a daily driver recently, got a new battery today in Halfords and then went to motor factors to get new ignition leads. I thought this is going to be easy - go there, ask, pay, leave. I tried three different places but without success... It is a rare car to see but there are still good few of them around and ignition leads are quite common and important item that is required. So the car instead of having the misfiring problem sorted is just sitting in the driveway and I am browsing ebay instead of being all happy that the problem has gone away. Not impressed.

gholian

Diabhalta wrote: »

Is there any other place than the one in Nottingham st? (perhaps there are engineering centres with excellent references in Kildare, Wicklow, Kerry and Donegal I don't know about) I got the carb refurbished in the same company as you so I presume you were lucky (or I was unlucky). It just makes me wonder if I get a carb like this how does it look like inside, is it really refurbished, or just cleaned and few random things replaced?

As said above, this typical Irish "Sure it'll do" or "Sure who'll ever see it" is a major factor why there are many things just done poorly in Ireland. Compare 100 year old houses in a countryside somewhere in central europe and houses in Irish country side. Crooked buildings that are most likely vacated by now because of the quality of Irish engineering (if you can call it engineering ) ...some streets in Cork where Irish engineering played a major role are just plain weird. You drive a car on a street with certain width, so it is fine for two way traffic and all of a sudden it gets more narrow until you have to stop, because there is no space for you and the car coming in the opposite direction. Why and how is this even possible? Back then when they built those houses they couldn't make the streets wide enough everywhere? This makes no sense whatsoever.

Back to cars - Ireland just isn't friendly to anything a bit older and because of no heavy industry over here, there are no people that could fix the machinery (I had to drive 2x70km to have my old car fixed and then collect it - wtf?). I bought an older BMW as a daily driver recently, got a new battery today in Halfords and then went to motor factors to get new ignition leads. I thought this is going to be easy - go there, ask, pay, leave. I tried three different places but without success... It is a rare car to see but there are still good few of them around and ignition leads are quite common and important item that is required. So the car instead of having the misfiring problem sorted is just sitting in the driveway and I am browsing ebay instead of being all happy that the problem has gone away. Not impressed.

Have to say I agree 100%. The standard of workmanship in Ireland leaves a lot to be desired. Paying big money for crap workmanship. You're right Ireland isn't friendly to anything a bit older. The attitude seems to be do enough to keep you going past the next NCT. I don't even go to Motor Factors anymore, order online usually from the UK, have to wait a week but at least I know I will have it as opposed to "should be in on Thursday.

Back to the original post: That is a tough one. You need to see the restoration at the various stages. Also important to see the work they have done already. That would be hard in eastern European countries. Are you talking about getting all the restoration done by an outsider or will you be doing bits yourself?

Kenny Logins

Diabhalta wrote: »

Back to cars - Ireland just isn't friendly to anything a bit older and because of no heavy industry over here, there are no people that could fix the machinery (I had to drive 2x70km to have my old car fixed and then collect it - wtf?). I bought an older BMW as a daily driver recently, got a new battery today in Halfords and then went to motor factors to get new ignition leads. I thought this is going to be easy - go there, ask, pay, leave. I tried three different places but without success... It is a rare car to see but there are still good few of them around and ignition leads are quite common and important item that is required. So the car instead of having the misfiring problem sorted is just sitting in the driveway and I am browsing ebay instead of being all happy that the problem has gone away. Not impressed.

To be fair, you're looking for a specific set of leads that haven't been used on a car since 1990, you can't expect to walk in and buy those.

Diabhalta

gholian wrote: »

Have to say I agree 100%. The standard of workmanship in Ireland leaves a lot to be desired. Paying big money for crap workmanship. You're right Ireland isn't friendly to anything a bit older. The attitude seems to be do enough to keep you going past the next NCT. I don't even go to Motor Factors anymore, order online usually from the UK, have to wait a week but at least I know I will have it as opposed to "should be in on Thursday.

Back to the original post: That is a tough one. You need to see the restoration at the various stages. Also important to see the work they have done already. That would be hard in eastern European countries. Are you talking about getting all the restoration done by an outsider or will you be doing bits yourself?

I tend to get things on ebay as well rather than waste my time with motor factors. Depends on what do you need. They kinda surprised me today in Premier when they got me an ignition coil and distributor cap for a 1979 car.

Most important thing is a trustworthy workshop and a person that is in touch with them. Ideally a person that lives there and speaks both languages so can keep the owner updated regularly. Once you have both there is no problem. You save thousands on a respray etc.

11 years ago I got a gearbox rebuilt on my first car. It was a 4 speed Skoda gearbox from the 80s (Skoda Estelle). Got a guy to do it, paid 400 euro for the job (today it would be probably a bit more, maybe 450-500 euro). My friend recommeded him because he did something on his car. He was an ex-factory worker and used to build 2 gearboxes a day in the 80s and he does basically everything on these cars. He lived only 5 minutes away from me and did it in his own garage. So I took a bus when I went to collect the car.

If anyone needs to have a gearbox rebuilt or even the whole car he is the guy to do it. Give him few grand and you can collect your brand new Skoda in few months. 100% work for very little money.

His webpage:

http://www.autoopravnasvatunek.cz/

And there is plenty of people like this over there. Nothing, absolutely nothing is impossible. There are specialists for all kinds of cars. I think rebuilding a Jag would cost way less than here. Drive to UK, fill the car with parts, continue to Czech rep. and collect your car in 2-3 months. Thousands of euros saved.

Kenny Logins wrote: »

To be fair, you're looking for a specific set of leads that haven't been used on a car since 1990, you can't expect to walk in and buy those.

I can, but not in Ireland apparently . They have them in stock in Prague for 74 euro (UK ebay almost 100 euro). Yes, there are more cars like that over there... but not even being able to order them from somewhere here is really bad. The answer in all three motor factors was: "we don't have them, try somewhere else" ... I am sorry for driving daily a BMW from 90s

Kenny Logins

Diabhalta wrote: »

I can, but not in Ireland apparently . They have them in stock in Prague for 74 euro (UK ebay almost 100 euro). Yes, there are more cars like that over there... but not even being able to order them from somewhere here is really bad. The answer in all three motor factors was: "we don't have them, try somewhere else" ... I am sorry for driving daily a BMW from 90s

So you can't then, unless you intend walking to Prague?

BTW, BMW and Otto both have them for a little under €100. What motor factors did you visit?

Or...

http://www.gsfcarparts.ie/926bm0010

http://www.micksgarage.com/proddetails.aspx?pid=1662027&carid=6145

kadman

I think there are plenty of good professional specialists available in the country, for any make of classic car now.
And some bad ones too.

But your expert came from a recomendation by a friend, and thats probably the way to go on resto work.
But it could have easily went pear shaped too. And if it did here in Ireland, it would be easier to deal with than in europe I would imagine.

And basically a back street mechanic does not have the overheads that insured classic restorers do, so can easily give a lower price.
So that has to be a factor too.

Estelles are an easy car to work on anyway, and shouldn,t phase any mechanic They are basic engineering,
once properly maintained. And ideal for engine transplants and swaps.;)

digger58

I am thinking of taking a car to Belgrade, I have been to the workshop and the work is first class, just seen a Fiat 124 spider get a full rebuild, new valances etc, all photographed for the owner, unbelievable skills there, new sills folded on site, new wings made on site, try to get that done this side of the world, I got ball joints that are unobtainable repaired there as well.

kadman

digger58 wrote: »

I am thinking of taking a car to Belgrade, I have been to the workshop and the work is first class, just seen a Fiat 124 spider get a full rebuild, new valances etc, all photographed for the owner, unbelievable skills there, new sills folded on site, new wings made on site, try to get that done this side of the world, I got ball joints that are unobtainable repaired there as well.

I cant see how it works out any cheaper when all the travelling there and back twice, is taken into account, but I assume you,ve done your homework.

I,ve no doubt the attitude and work ethic may be better, but that type of skillset is here, if you go looking. And there are body shops here, both foreign and domestic so to speak, that could save you the trip.

If its an across the board comparison on all fronts, well fair enough, but we need to be comparing like with like.

I know an excellent body shop that has just paid a foreign welder 5k euros in cash into the hand for welding work on 1 car, and its not finished at that. Of course thats a cash deal, without all the other over heads. Of course this does nothing for supporting home grown body professionals.


Whats the car??

digger58

5K!!!!!! That would do a full rebuild in Serbia, Most of us don't have that sort of money to throw at a project! I use my trips out as a holiday as well. Its a great road trip to drive out btw! I've driven out about 8 or 9 times so far! Don't forget that parts no longer available here are still found out there! The skills may be here but it's mostly non nationals that have them. Labor costs are too high here for most of us in regard to classic car repairs.

Diabhalta

kadman wrote: »

I think there are plenty of good professional specialists available in the country, for any make of classic car now.
And some bad ones too.

But your expert came from a recomendation by a friend, and thats probably the way to go on resto work.
But it could have easily went pear shaped too. And if it did here in Ireland, it would be easier to deal with than in europe I would imagine.

And basically a back street mechanic does not have the overheads that insured classic restorers do, so can easily give a lower price.
So that has to be a factor too.

Estelles are an easy car to work on anyway, and shouldn,t phase any mechanic They are basic engineering,
once properly maintained. And ideal for engine transplants and swaps.;)

"plenty" lol ... how many are in Cork? I drove my car for 2x70km to have some basic service done, because I couldn't find anybody in Cork. There were people here on boards with same problem. You probably live in different Ireland.

it's all about contacts, so if you have something done in a foreign country there needs to be somebody who speaks the language. Any problem can be solved then.

well, you're not gonna give your classic car to a back street mechanic for a restoration work, but to a fully qualified mechanic with decades of experience. That will easily give you lower price.

Estelle is a simple car alright. Let's compare the prices of restoration work on this car: 450 euro gearbox rebuilt, engine let's say 1000-1200 euro. Painting the car 1000 euro, then you need parts and do the rest of the work so let's say couple of grand (5000 maybe?). Total 8000-10 000 euro? In Ireland easily double that money.

kadman wrote: »

I cant see how it works out any cheaper when all the travelling there and back twice, is taken into account, but I assume you,ve done your homework.

Serbia is a bit further, but let's say you travel to Czech Republic. From Cherbourg ferry port in France to Prague, Czech Republic it is 1400 km approx. Let's say your car wants 8 litres/100km. If the price per litre is 1,35 euro you pay in total something over 150 euro for petrol. Plus ferry from Rosslare to Cherboug that would be 150 euro return? 450 euro transport costs (add maybe 70-80 euro for 2 nights in a hotel - Etap and Ibis budget hotels) so total would be something around 1000 euro to go there and back. And you can visit various museums in Germany and France on the way there. Plenty of interesting museums in Czech as well. Travel! We only live once.

Thinkingaboutit

Gerry Cahill in Tallaght, well above Tallaght, did a great job with panels and repair sections.

kadman

Its a Skoda, Estelle, 100, 110r, Rapide.........or whatever. Its basic engineering, its not the space shuttle.
It wont get any easier than servicing a skoda engine. Of course you do know these engines require more
frequent oil changes than others of a similar era, to keep them in good fettle.

Why you had to travel 140 km for a basic service puzzles me.?

And I live in a nice part of Ireland, but family hails from Cork:D

So I,ve nothing but good things to say about Corkonians;)

Next time you need a service, pop down the road to me. Or any other
skoda info.

But good luck to you and your Estelle. I still have a few of those manuals, and the early 110r,s as well, from back when I used to restore them.If ever you get stuck.

digger58

Kadman, do you by any chance want a new locking fuel cap for the Skoda, I have 2 new ones in boxes, give me a shout and I'll post a picture if you're interested.

kadman

@digger58 thanks for the offer, but I,ve long since moved from skoda to classic vw,s.

Maybe the op skoda owner would be interested in purchasing them from you. The only skoda
parts I have left now are manuals, and a couple of ignition switches. My engine parts are
long gone, as it was impossible to get a decent running engine back i the day, that did not
suffer from long overdue oil change damage.
So I used to fit Datsun cherry engines to them, that then went on to do rallying circuits around
Ireland.

I,d love to get my hands on a 135 Rapide. Suspension wise the Estelles were magic on the road.

Diabhalta

kadman wrote: »

Its a Skoda, Estelle, 100, 110r, Rapide.........or whatever. Its basic engineering, its not the space shuttle.
It wont get any easier than servicing a skoda engine. Of course you do know these engines require more
frequent oil changes than others of a similar era, to keep them in good fettle.

Why you had to travel 140 km for a basic service puzzles me.?

And I live in a nice part of Ireland, but family hails from Cork:D

So I,ve nothing but good things to say about Corkonians;)

Next time you need a service, pop down the road to me. Or any other
skoda info.

But good luck to you and your Estelle. I still have a few of those manuals, and the early 110r,s as well, from back when I used to restore them.If ever you get stuck.

That is not the point if it's basic engineering or not. The point is that any job is done for half of the price. So if you will get something done for 40K here it will be done for 20-25K there.

Why I had to travel 140km to have the car serviced? Very simple answer: No mechanic in Cork city that would do the job. Simple as that. I will repeat myself: there were people here already asking numerous times about a mechanic that is working on old cars in Cork. Zero mechanics in Cork city. None.

I never said I have an Estelle, I had one 10 years ago and got a gearbox rebuilt on it for 400 euro.

kadman

You,ve made your point...........now let me make mine.

On one hand I hear, that the skilset is not available. And then the cost here is too high. Or maybe both?

Skilset is readily available here, as I know from my 45 year involvement in ownership and maintainance of
many classics, mainly skoda and aircooled. I personally know of many talented professionals involved with
these. As you had such a difficult time sourcing one, it doesn,t mean they are not there.

On the cost side of things. maybe thats an issue as the professionals here have to work in workshop environments
that require far greater regulation than some of our foreign counterparts. I dont know?
Maybe its because the professionals here, are looking at getting a greater profit margin, again I dont know.

But my main point was in my opinion the skilset is here and available for both mechanical engineering and
bodywork.

Whether you shop for classic car work here or across the pond, its nice to enjoy the ownership of a classic
car either way. Nice

kadman

Diabhalta

kadman wrote: »

On one hand I hear, that the skilset is not available. And then the cost here is too high. Or maybe both?

Skilset is readily available here, as I know from my 45 year involvement in ownership and maintainance of
many classics, mainly skoda and aircooled. I personally know of many talented professionals involved with
these. As you had such a difficult time sourcing one, it doesn,t mean they are not there.

On the cost side of things. maybe thats an issue as the professionals here have to work in workshop environments
that require far greater regulation than some of our foreign counterparts. I dont know?
Maybe its because the professionals here, are looking at getting a greater profit margin, again I dont know.

But my main point was in my opinion the skilset is here and available for both mechanical engineering and
bodywork.

Whether you shop for classic car work here or across the pond, its nice to enjoy the ownership of a classic
car either way. Nice

kadman

I'd say it's both

It's available but it seems that it's not available in Cork. I was looking and I really tried but without success. I even contacted some local classic car clubs. People here on boards were asking but there was no direct answer (like "ring this guy, his phone number is xxxxx ... he is really good"). Golden pages? Not a chance.

Re the costs, well everything is a bit more expensive here than there. Simple.

It's nice to enjoy a classic car but unfortunately a struggle at the same time over here. Without ebay there probably wouldn't be any classic cars in Ireland because the parts definitely are not available from Motor factors. In Czech rep. there are specialist breakers for all kinds of cars. Doesn't matter if your car is Japanese, Italian, French or American... you will get anything you need (one phone call is what it takes) and if not second hand, you'll get it from motor factors. Forget about ebay.

Ireland is at the edge of europe after all and due to new/old cars ratio parts are just not here. It's not impossible but it's not exactly easy to maintain and run an old/older car. And I'm not buying a newer car because of this. They are all mostly boring so I'm happy with my 1990 daily driver and it's 1979 brother.

carlosfandango

Thinkingaboutit wrote: »

Gerry Cahill in Tallaght, well above Tallaght, did a great job with panels and repair sections.

Any more information on Gerry Cahill?
It would be great to get some detail off someone who has had first hand experience.
Does Gerry have a website or something similar?

CFD

galwaytt

....there are certain skills here available alright, but the good ones are sometimes under the radar. I know of one who has cars sent to him from the UK and is work is the best: but atmo he has enough work for the next 18 months so is taking no more on, and even then it isn't cheap -but I wouldn't want him to be: otherwise something's gotta give.

I know another guy in the trade in the UK in the two-wheel business - doesn't use FB, internet or email, phone only. Astonishing work, but on his terms, not yours. And won't be cheap.

I'm sure this is repeated across Europe in many places. The challenge is find the real ones from the other ones.

Thinkingaboutit

carlosfandango wrote: »

Any more information on Gerry Cahill?
It would be great to get some detail off someone who has had first hand experience.
Does Gerry have a website or something similar?

CFD

Hi Carlos, the number is 086.8436237. Say I mentioned him. It was on my old phone, just replaced. I'll find the old phone. He's a former fireman and also restored an appliance. He did a lot of mental work on some of the other cars in his workship. One was a Wolseley 15/50 which some earlier owner had put in a Jaguar engine, and was being prepped/restored for competition.

11wingnut

pryantcc wrote: »

Hi folks,
Has anyone had any experience sending cars to Eastern Europe or elsewhere for restoration work?

Back to topic please this topic is of interest to me and i am sure lots of classic owners

digger58

I was talking to my contact in Belgrade yesterday, I'm planning on a full respray, 1990's 2 door cabriolet, Metallic paint, no major body work to be done, just a few small dents here and there, stone chips and usual scratches. No panels to be replaced, no rust etc. Before I say a rough cost ( given to me after emailing many photos) I would ask how much roughly over here. Then people can decide. While there undoubtedly are many skills here, I don't know ANYWHERE over here to get balljoints rebuilt. Again we have followed a trend of replace not repair here for many years, that's why so many foreign nationals have done so well here in the garage business in the last few years, they came from a culture of repairing things and have the skills we have lost due to the usual habit of throw away parts here. The Celtic Tiger sure finished any body trying to repair things, money was flowing for new cars and parts, nobody wanted to get their hands dirty. It's all plug and play now as well so the older stuff doesn't feature in training these days.