Doing cardio if you also workout - is it correct to say the following....

DareGod

Hypothetical situation:

John works out three days per week, to build muscle, following a training programme. But he really misses running, and decides now to start running again, as well as continuing with his workout. (Not necessarily on the same days. He might work out on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays, while running only on Tuesdays and Thursdays.)

Q: How is this likely to affect John's muscle-building progress?

Is it correct to say that, in theory, in order to avoid slowing his muscle gains, all John has to do is (A) consume the extra amount of calories required to fuel his running sessions, and (B) get the extra amount of rest required to recover from the running?

Is (A) false? Is (B) false? Are both false?

Mellor

Why would A be false?
Running burns energy, which increases his energy expenditure. If he doesn't intake adjust for the running then he'll have a smaller surplus. Which means he'll put on less mass.
If his intake was optimal before*, then its not sub-optimal if he doesn't adjust.



It's much harder to quantify recovery. With no info on intensity, its impossible to say.
A small amount of low intensity could be marginally better than no cardio (active recovery). But as the intensity increases it could well eat into recovery, especially when it so so intense to require recovery it's self.

Hanley

That's correct in theory.

But in the real world probably won't work.

Transform

Hanley wrote: »

That's correct in theory.

But in the real world probably won't work.

has John got a proper training program and calculated his claorie needs based on activity, height, weight

in general - A

DareGod

Mellor wrote: »

Why would A be false?
Running burns energy, which increases his energy expenditure. If he doesn't intake adjust for the running then he'll have a smaller surplus. Which means he'll put on less mass.
If his intake was optimal before*, then its not sub-optimal if he doesn't adjust.

Is this line meant to say:

"If his intake was optimal before, then it IS sub-optimal if he doesn't adjust".

...instead of saying "its not sub-optimal."

?

Brian?

John needs to add bacon to all of his meals to counter balance the extra running.

Transform

Brian? wrote: »

John needs to add bacon to all of his meals to counter balance the extra running.

i support this and anything with nuts,
yes nuts, coconut oil and dark chocolate because healthy calories are apparently 'guilt free' (whatever the feck thats supposed to mean) and contain no actual calories

seriously, if you're training lots just eat more good food

DareGod

I think my basic question has been answered at this stage.

My follow-up and final question is this:

(and this is really a throwaway question, and I'm only looking for throwaway answers, as I'm aware that "It depends" is the real answer to most fitness questions, and answers given will also vary wildly. I'm not seeking an answer that I can take as gospel...)

Q: In general (in the vast majority of circumstances,) do you personally consider it to be a bad idea to go running (or whatever your favourite activity is) on the tuesdays and thursdays, if you're training to build muscle on mondays, wednesdays and fridays?

Alf Veedersane

If the running is worked in properly with his program and he's fuelling himself correctly, John will be fine.

But it's unlikely John has both of those in the order they should be.

But that might not be an issue if he's chest 'n' bi kinda guy.

Mellor

DareGod wrote: »

Is this line meant to say:

"If his intake was optimal before, then it IS sub-optimal if he doesn't adjust".

...instead of saying "its not sub-optimal."

?

Correct, I made a double negative. Either delete the not or the sub. It should read;

...its not optimal.., or
...it's sub-optimal...


Also the * was highlighting that assuming anyones intake is optimal is going to be an error most of the time.

DareGod wrote: »

Q: In general (in the vast majority of circumstances,) do you personally consider it to be a bad idea to go running (or whatever your favourite activity is) on the tuesdays and thursdays, if you're training to build muscle on mondays, wednesdays and fridays?

Without details of intensity, exactly training etc its all a little useless. But in general, I don't think two days of cardio extra ia a bad idea.

Brian?

DareGod wrote: »

I think my basic question has been answered at this stage.

My follow-up and final question is this:

(and this is really a throwaway question, and I'm only looking for throwaway answers, as I'm aware that "It depends" is the real answer to most fitness questions, and answers given will also vary wildly. I'm not seeking an answer that I can take as gospel...)

Q: In general (in the vast majority of circumstances,) do you personally consider it to be a bad idea to go running (or whatever your favourite activity is) on the tuesdays and thursdays, if you're training to build muscle on mondays, wednesdays and fridays?

I would never consider doing ones favourite activity a bad idea. Running will have a slight knock on effect, but it's really down to intensity.

Instead of asking in the general, why don't you personalise your questions. Lay out your weeks activities and food intake. Have you been gaining muscle? At what rate?

Transform

DareGod wrote: »

I think my basic question has been answered at this stage.

My follow-up and final question is this:

(and this is really a throwaway question, and I'm only looking for throwaway answers, as I'm aware that "It depends" is the real answer to most fitness questions, and answers given will also vary wildly. I'm not seeking an answer that I can take as gospel...)

Q: In general (in the vast majority of circumstances,) do you personally consider it to be a bad idea to go running (or whatever your favourite activity is) on the tuesdays and thursdays, if you're training to build muscle on mondays, wednesdays and fridays?

if the running has that big of affect then it says more about your overall training and nutrition than the running.

I run way more often than that and have no issue holding onto muscle gained but i did build it up over years

ThinkProgress

@OP

In my experience, it can be difficult for most guys to maintain bulk if you do a lot of cardio-centric stuff. (it doesn't even have to be heavy endurance type - just intense cardio in general)

If you're talking more about easy paced low intensity stuff, you might be okay. But it depends on your genetics and diet. As Transform said, I would increase your intake of healthy fats, both for calories but also for CNS repair and hormones. (cardio can put a heavy burden on your body if done to excess)

And get a good multivitamin with cod liver oil too.

Cardio can be great for giving your muscles better definition and also improving oxygen supply to your muscles when doing strength training. So maybe ask yourself would you be okay with slightly smaller muscle mass, but good definition?

For example, I find it's easier to maintain a visible 6 pack if you do plenty of cardio... but the flip side is that those muscles will probably be smaller than someone who does less cardio. If having huge muscles is very important to you, my honest answer would be to keep the intense cardio to a minimum.

DareGod

Cheers everyone for all the answers!

My main aim with this thread was to find out if you (i.e. you experienced people who know what you're talking about) consider cardio a big no-no for someone trying to build muscle (as I wasn't sure, and "just googling it" tends to throw up a whole load of ambivalence) and what I'm gathering is that it is NOT a big no-no, but that it WILL have repercussions in certain circumstances and in different ways, depending on all the different variables.

Personally, I started at the gym in 2014. I got through 4 months of training before health issues unrelated to the training got in the way and I had to stop completely, and I'm only now looking at getting back into training, over the coming months. I also used to run a lot, but had to stop that too, also due to health reasons, but am now eager to take it back up again.

I am no longer looking for perfect definition or big muscles. I am simply looking to be happy, relatively muscular and enjoy my running.

Thanks again for the responses.

Alf Veedersane

Couple of articles Greg Nuckols (and Alex Viada) did on Strengtheory:

http://www.strengtheory.com/cardio-and-lifting-cardio-wont-hugely-impact-your-gains-in-the-short-run-and-may-be-beneficial-for-strength-and-size-in-the-long-run/

http://www.strengtheory.com/practical-considerations-for-combining-cardiovascular-training-and-lifting/

Definitely worth a read. As is all of Greg Nuckols' stuff.

Transform

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Couple of articles Greg Nuckols (and Alex Viada) did on Strengtheory:

http://www.strengtheory.com/cardio-and-lifting-cardio-wont-hugely-impact-your-gains-in-the-short-run-and-may-be-beneficial-for-strength-and-size-in-the-long-run/

http://www.strengtheory.com/practical-considerations-for-combining-cardiovascular-training-and-lifting/

Definitely worth a read. As is all of Greg Nuckols' stuff.

agreed - they publish some of the best content out there right now as opposed to the usual stuff thats just a rehash

Alf Veedersane

Transform wrote: »

agreed - they publish some of the best content out there right now as opposed to the usual stuff thats just a rehash

I really like the critical analysis of the studies. When he uses a study, he'll really go into the pros and cons of it, e.g. the training experience of study participants, etc etc

jefferytibbs

I liked doing a bit of running etc with my workouts as I would get to treat on stuff like chocolate whilst still losing fat and gaining muscle. Now if I could just be bothered to start training again!!!

DareGod

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Couple of articles Greg Nuckols (and Alex Viada) did on Strengtheory:

http://www.strengtheory.com/cardio-and-lifting-cardio-wont-hugely-impact-your-gains-in-the-short-run-and-may-be-beneficial-for-strength-and-size-in-the-long-run/

http://www.strengtheory.com/practical-considerations-for-combining-cardiovascular-training-and-lifting/

Definitely worth a read. As is all of Greg Nuckols' stuff.

Great articles. Thanks.