LinkedFinance - new website

Captainsatnav

Not even bothering with information on the 'companies' now...

https://www.linkedfinance.com/loan/2019/11/liffey-artefacts

Peter File

Captainsatnav wrote: »

Not even bothering with information on the 'companies' now...

https://www.linkedfinance.com/loan/2019/11/liffey-artefacts

you can view the financial information when the loan is available and you are logged into your account and also if you fund the loan.

ganmo

I see they're adding 5 year loans!! yikes!

WunnaYarzar

I've a few loans lately which stopped repaying towards the end.

Fallon and Byrne missed their final repayment, think its around 1 week late now, no reason given.

YellowBelly Beer (1 repayment remaining)
Fallon & Byrne (1 remaining)
The Chameleon Restaurant (2 remaining)
Timberwise Construction (3 remaining)
Daigon Renewables (4 remaining)
Mooch (4 remaining)

golfman wrote: »

I'm in that loan and it looks like they'll be back for more.... "To support this period of growth, Fallon & Byrne would like to raise a total credit facility of €250,000. The first tranche is a 12-month loan of €90,000 with plans to return to the platform in the weeks ahead for the balance."

garrettod wrote: »

Why, because they are almost a "household name" around Dublin ?

.... I can't recall the details, but I think the business or it's promoters have had one or two issues in the not too distant past (no doubt you'll quickly find details on google), so their traditional bankers may not be as supportive as they might hope.

Also, lets not forget, P2P usually requires a lot less onerous conditions and security than the main banks - a key reason for the need for higher interest rates than the Banks charge, but not necessarily something LF appear to understand.

jt72

My loans are all ok for now, 26 repaying, 4 finished. Most of my stuff is autobid.

Not a fan of the lender fee however, drawing down quarterly.

Where loans go bad, what is the likelihood of securing a judgement against the personal guarantee?

Anyone have a loan that was more than a bit late come back from the dead, or anyone ever get a settlement for a bad loan?

Time for a q3 loan book report?

boardzz

Hi I'm looking to start investing some money and I'm looking at Linked Finance.
Can somebody explain to me how often and how much I would get net from bidding 10K on something like this offer:

Amount: €150,000
Term: 60 months
Grade: A
Rate: 8.95%

urgecaution

Before worrying about the figures I suggest you read back through this thread and you will see that there are a few disgruntled investors in LF. I would count myself among those and I'm pulling out. This is based on a couple of years where I have noted a deterioration in their offering. BUT do your own research and I think they have worked examples in their FAQS.

Shelflife

I ignored the advice here and got involved, slowly getting out of it now.

You will get out of it a lot less than you think. Their fee knocks approx another 1% off the advertised rate

You are locked into it there is no out.

If they default you are at the whim of LF to get your investment back and they have no skin in the game.

Im not sure if this is the second of these loans from this company but they def advertised one before christmas.

Why is this company with a turnover of €6m only generating an EBITA of €266k ?

Why are they prepared to pay well over the odds for a loan for working capital and its over 5 years.

Too many flags for me here.

That and the fact that its LF are enough to stay away for me.

jt72

boardzz wrote: »

Hi I'm looking to start investing some money and I'm looking at Linked Finance.
Can somebody explain to me how often and how much I would get net from bidding 10K on something like this offer:

Amount: €150,000
Term: 60 months
Grade: A
Rate: 8.95%

One of the advantages of Peer to Peer lending is that you don't have to put all your eggs in one basket. If you are after 8.95%, you might be better off putting €100 into 100 different investments. If one of your loans goes belly up, you are only 1% exposed in this model. Just an example.

I wouldn't put 10,000 into any one investment in a peer to peer platform. At least I haven't found one yet!

Cute Hoor

boardzz wrote: »

Hi I'm looking to start investing some money and I'm looking at Linked Finance.
Can somebody explain to me how often and how much I would get net from bidding 10K on something like this offer:

Amount: €150,000
Term: 60 months
Grade: A
Rate: 8.95%

Each to their own but I wouldn't touch them (LF) with a barge pole now.

I've been with them for about 4 years, they were fine at first, you could decide whether to bid or not before they introduced the autobid facility, after that you had no choice but to go with the autobid which gave you no control over what you were 'investing' in.

They have no skin in the game themselves so there is no incentive (obviously) for them to carry out effective debt management imo. Their debt management is truly appalling imo, it's incredible it's so bad, all you get when you contact them (if you manage to contact them) are pious platitudes and a promise to do better. Their updates (such as they exist) on defaulting loans are at best inane and uninformative imo. Because of their total inadequacy at debt management there is little incentive (other than their own integrity) for businesses to keep repaying, businesses are noticing this as well with an increasing number defecting safe in the knowledge that there will be little or no consequences.

Unfortunately I am tied into them for another while as I run down the account, it's a pity as it was a good concept imo but I find it hard to see them lasting under their current business model and modus operandi.

A couple of examples of their idea of 'debt management'

24/9/2019
We have not received the most recent repayment for this loan. We have been in contact with the borrower and they advised there was an IT error on their side and the Direct Debit was cancelled. They advised they will make the repayment within the next 7 days, as soon as we are in receipt of funds lenders will be notified.
16 October 2019
To date we are still not in receipt of the funds outstanding on this loan agreement as was arranged with the borrower. We will continue to try obtain the outstanding balance as soon as possible. As soon as we have an update or receive said funds lenders will be informed accordingly.
No update since 16 October 2019

6 November 2019
Following the receipt of the borrowers financial documentation linked Finance have proposed a reduced repayment arrangement in line with the borrowers maximum affordability . The borrower now has 7 days to review and accept same when a further lender update will be communicated .
No update since 6 November 2019

3 September 2019
Following a conversation with the guarantors and the subsequent closure of this business we are currently negotiating the settlement of this loan agreement . A further update is expected by the end of this week .
No update since 3 September 2019 - What is LFs idea of a week

10 September 2019
We have credited a payment to your account for this loan.
No update since 10 September 2019

30 July 2019
We have been advised there has been a change in legal representation on this file . We have reached out to the new representation and lodged our interest , we have been advised to expect an update on this in 60 days time when a further lender update will be communicated .
No update since 30 July 2019

I could go on......

Jim2007

boardzz wrote: »

Hi I'm looking to start investing some money and I'm looking at Linked Finance.
Can somebody explain to me how often and how much I would get net from bidding 10K on something like this offer:

Amount: €150,000
Term: 60 months
Grade: A
Rate: 8.95%

Are you a specialist in sub-prime lending? Because that is what you are doing, you are lending your money to someone who for one reason or another are locked from the normal credit providers. In other words, you, the amateur, are lending money to people the experts would not touch.

There is one basic rule that never changes, higher returns always requires you to take on risks beyond that of other asset classes.

brianomc

As with most here, I wouldn't touch Linked Finance anyway and am withdrawing my money. The loan recipient might make 2 repayments and then decide not to bother anymore. Linked will give the occasional rubbish explanation of contacting the borrower, sending letters, etc. Their loan guarantors don't seem to have to pay it back.

Which is a real pity as I think most here would have loved to see an Irish peer-to-peer lending company make a success of it.

Scottie99

boardzz wrote: »

Hi I'm looking to start investing some money and I'm looking at Linked Finance.
Can somebody explain to me how often and how much I would get net from bidding 10K on something like this offer:

Amount: €150,000
Term: 60 months
Grade: A
Rate: 8.95%

Try Mintos. Guaranteed return and no charges for taking money out. I’m averaging about 10.24% on 3 month loans. I tend to stick with A or B class lenders, instead of the C/D/E ones.

bopter

brianomc wrote: »

As with most here, I wouldn't touch Linked Finance anyway and am withdrawing my money. The loan recipient might make 2 repayments and then decide not to bother anymore. Linked will give the occasional rubbish explanation of contacting the borrower, sending letters, etc. Their loan guarantors don't seem to have to pay it back.

Which is a real pity as I think most here would have loved to see an Irish peer-to-peer lending company make a success of it.

What about the other one www.Flender.ie
I’ve a couple of defaults but still averaging nearly 9% on flender.

Jim2007

Scottie99 wrote: »

Try Mintos. Guaranteed return and no charges for taking money out. I’m averaging about 10.24% on 3 month loans. I tend to stick with A or B class lenders, instead of the C/D/E ones.

So why exactly would an agency who facilities subprime lending be in a position to guarantee the return of your principle and deliver a return beyond that offered else where? Hell they should have no problem offering it as a securitisation to most institutions.... They can't because somewhere in there, you are taking on far more risk than you think. No one offers you that kind of a deal because they are nice guys.

Scottie99

Jim2007 wrote: »

So why exactly would an agency who facilities subprime lending be in a position to guarantee the return of your principle and deliver a return beyond that offered else where? Hell they should have no problem offering it as a securitisation to most institutions.... They can't because somewhere in there, you are taking on far more risk than you think. No one offers you that kind of a deal because they are nice guys.

When the notification came in, I thought it might be you (Mr Happy)

I do know the risks, that’s why I mentioned you only lend with Companies that have high ratings.
You’ve also to spread the risk..

Scottie99

Jim2007 wrote: »

So why exactly would an agency who facilities subprime lending be in a position to guarantee the return of your principle and deliver a return beyond that offered else where? Hell they should have no problem offering it as a securitisation to most institutions.... They can't because somewhere in there, you are taking on far more risk than you think. No one offers you that kind of a deal because they are nice guys.

..and I wouldn’t see these levels % are particularly high. One of the reasons, I only go short term, is to get out quick IF need be.

FFVII

Scottie99 wrote: »

..and I wouldn’t see these levels % are particularly high. One of the reasons, I only go short term, is to get out quick IF need be.

You won't get out of P2P quick.

When she blows, you're going down.

Scottie99

FFVII wrote: »

You won't get out of P2P quick.

When she blows, you're going down.

You’re assuming every Company blows at once, then yes we’re all f....d.

But It is currently one of the biggest peer 2 peer platforms in Europe, both in terms of investors as well as in terms of loan originators.

It’s all about minimising risk, you don't lend all your money to one borrower. Instead, hedge your bets by lending just a bit of money to many borrowers. As I said, I only loan to top grade companies which are vetted mitigating the risk.

garrettod

Never fear, 5 year loans are here... Yipee!!!

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/0127/1111143-linked-finance-launches-new-5-year-business-loans/

"Linked Finance said it applies a rigourous credit checking process to vet loan applications which allows lenders with a well-diversified loan portfolio to earn net returns of 7-8%"

I don't know what's worse, the possibility that LF might actually believe that they carry out "rigourous credit checking", or the fact that RTE just published that without questioning LF on exactly what they do, when carrying out" rigourous credit checking " :-(

Then there is the question of how you can earn 7%-8% return net, with a well diversified portfolio.

... I would just love to see how LF explain that one.

For a start, it's misleading, as the returns that LF pay, are subject to tax (so are not" net").

Then there's the question about how you get that average return, what level of risk do you have to take in the diversified profolio, have hey netted out the likely losses on higher risk land, then deducted their fees etc.

Peter File

"a five-year unsecured business loan for Irish SMEs"
So no comeback if they decide not to pay.

Timmaay

PrettyBoy wrote: »

Am I right in saying that nowadays banks will give loans to SME's at rates from 5.5-7%? And Linked finance would charge borrowers more than this (7-15%)?

If a bank has refused to loan you money then you have to go try the next lowest interest rate. According to creditunion.ie the average interest rate from CU loans in the Republic is 10.66%, and afaik the credit union will make you hold 1/3 of the loan amount as a cash reserve in your account, so a linked finance loan certainly sounds better than that option. But from a lender point of view the big questions are what sort of checks they do on the businesses, and how transparent that whole process will be.

Darc19

PrettyBoy wrote: »

Am I right in saying that nowadays banks will give loans to SME's at rates from 5.5-7%? And Linked finance would charge borrowers more than this (7-15%)?

The lowest "real" rate from linked finance is about 11% as they have a fee of 5% (you can haggle to 4) on top of the lending rate. This fee is paid immediately.

Banks are lending to most well run business at 5-7% and that is problem for LF

garrettod

PrettyBoy wrote: »

Am I right in saying that nowadays banks will give loans to SME's at rates from 5.5-7%? And Linked finance would charge borrowers more than this (7-15%)?

My understanding is that Banks will lend at cheaper rates than that, subject to the loan size, financial strength of the borrowing entity, security etc.

Banks and LF differ in a few key ways :

- Banks are regulated by the Central Bank, so take longer to process applications, require more documentation etc.

- Banks are unlikely to lend to parties with bad credit records (unless they can be convinced that the Borrower has turned the corner, dealt with their legacy issues properly etc.)

- Business Borrowers would be extremely well advised to review the SBCI's website and the various facilities available, through the Banks. Some great rates (3%-4.5% deepening on the loan product). Also, the SBCI provide the Banks with a Guarantee for part of the loan, so this often satisfies the Banks security requirement.

GGBC

Question I would like to ask folks for their opinion as I seen the Small Firms Assicoation including a key point in their manifesto on SME finance and access to the same.

90% of business owners in Ireland still see the banks as their first stop when there is a finance need, 10% go to non bank - seen this number in the media. Comparing that to UK which approx 50%/50% split and in the US I seeing someone mention 75% in non banks favour.

Q: Prentend 100% of the business owners in Ireland understood companies like Linked Finances, Flenders, Grenke, Bibby etc's product offering - Would they still choose the banks products and services, and why?

at9qu5vp0wcix7

GGBC wrote: »

Question I would like to ask folks for their opinion as I seen the Small Firms Assicoation including a key point in their manifesto on SME finance and access to the same.

90% of business owners in Ireland still see the banks as their first stop when there is a finance need, 10% go to non bank - seen this number in the media. Comparing that to UK which approx 50%/50% split and in the US I seeing someone mention 75% in non banks favour.

Q: Prentend 100% of the business owners in Ireland understood companies like Linked Finances, Flenders, Grenke, Bibby etc's product offering - Would they still choose the banks products and services, and why?

First off I'm not a business owner, so I can't speak from experience. However, it looks like banks offer a much cheaper interest rate (people here often forget that the business pays an extra percentage to LF on top of the percentage interest you receive). Aside from the interest rate, banks have a much greater flexibility in the amount of money that can be lent and the repayment schedule and timeframe.

Eg banks can provide very long or very short loan terms, facilitate balloon payments, provide loans smaller or bigger than those on offer from LF etc.

GGBC

Mila Calm Ax wrote: »

First off I'm not a business owner, so I can't speak from experience. However, it looks like banks offer a much cheaper interest rate (people here often forget that the business pays an extra percentage to LF on top of the percentage interest you receive). Aside from the interest rate, banks have a much greater flexibility in the amount of money that can be lent and the repayment schedule and timeframe.

Eg banks can provide very long or very short loan terms, facilitate balloon payments, provide loans smaller or bigger than those on offer from LF etc.

Bank money will always be cheaper of course but I mean if a non bank provide can give an business access to funds in a matter of days, is it not worth the fee. All very interesting, I think 2020 will be an interesting year for non bank providers, big oppurtuniutes coming their way I suspect.

p.s Which bank do you work for? joke!

at9qu5vp0wcix7

GGBC wrote: »

Bank money will always be cheaper of course but I mean if a non bank provide can give an business access to funds in a matter of days, is it not worth the fee. All very interesting, I think 2020 will be an interesting year for non bank providers, big oppurtuniutes coming their way I suspect.

p.s Which bank do you work for? joke!

I'll be in the P2P lending world 5 years this coming year, I'm firmly on its side! However, it is clear to me that when it comes to P2P lending in Ireland, only one of the 3 parties involved in a loan is getting a great deal - and it's not the customer nor the investor.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

I wouldn't mind hearing any insights you have in your p2p journey from the last 5 years. Care to add some feedback in the general P2P thread?

Mila Calm Ax wrote: »

I'll be in the P2P lending world 5 years this coming year, I'm firmly on its side! However, it is clear to me that when it comes to P2P lending in Ireland, only one of the 3 parties involved in a loan is getting a great deal - and it's not the customer nor the investor.

Jim2007

GGBC wrote: »

Bank money will always be cheaper of course but I mean if a non bank provide can give an business access to funds in a matter of days, is it not worth the fee. All very interesting, I think 2020 will be an interesting year for non bank providers, big oppurtuniutes coming their way I suspect.

p.s Which bank do you work for? joke!

Dress it up any way that makes you happy, but in the end you are an amateur lending money to subprime borrowers. You are getting a higher return because you are taking on a much higher risk that other lenders in the market.

And when the next recession hits, the subprime lenders will get hammered like they always do. The agents will fine because they got the fee, the borrower will be fine because he got your cash and the only looser will be you the borrower, because you are the only one in the game taking any real risk.