Gay teachers - does it make a difference?

mattP

So Im a young guy and Id love to do primary teaching - but I'm gay, and im afraid that will make it a very awkward and difficult ordeal. I remember reading years ago about gay teachers being passed over for promotion, or receiving a general sense of unwelcome from the staff and parents.
So what's it like? Are you treated differently?
Thanks :-)

mattP

mattP wrote: »

So Im a young guy and Id love to do primary teaching - but I'm gay, and im afraid that will make it a very awkward and difficult ordeal. I remember reading years ago about gay teachers being passed over for promotion, or receiving a general sense of unwelcome from the staff and parents.
So what's it like? Are you treated differently?
Thanks :-)

It might be worth calling the INTO and asking for their view. They have an active LGBT group and a good reputation in the area of LGBT rights, and as a union they have a lot of experience dealing with primary school management about employee rights generally.

byhookorbycrook

I have never known it to be an issue in any school, these days. But then, teachers I know who are LBGT are "discreet" in that they don't physically interact with their partners in public displays that hetro-sexual couples I know do. Not fair, I know, but unfortunately there are still some very narrow minded parents out there.

Spread the love

I have worked and went to college with openly gay teachers and it was never an issue but one thing I learnt in teaching is that you're better off keeping your private life private. I was too open about my life in the past and I have learnt my lesson that some walls have very big ears, big mouths and some people judge way too easily

DK man

Id say it's not a very big issue. Parents would be concerned about how good and interested you are in your job.

You will have to teach re in catholic schools.

I'm a secondary teacher and we have 2 young men doing temp work in the last 2 years and they were accepted into the staff room just like any other teacher ( and a middle aged man doing maternity cover - we all loved him / was a chef in a previous life and often took in home baking

Most teachers keep their private lives private anyways. If you really want to do it just go for it... Gay or straight you'll have people who you work with you wont like and they won't like you...... Best of luck

spurious

I know of one openly gay male principal of a small rural school and I know of a number of 'not out' secondary principals. I would have been quite involved in the TUI LGBT group and set up a general teachers' LGBT group back a couple of years before the INTO one.

I'm sure the doing away completely of the Section 37 legislation will make a big difference - it had some people really fearful for their jobs. Many gay teachers would be out in the staffroom but not in the classroom. That alone is of course a source of stress. The 'I'll say you touched me' element become very frightening to a gay teacher.

I don't think there is a general lack of promotion for gay teachers, though of course anecdotally there are some blatant cases. As with most discrimination, it's easy get away with it if you know you won't be called on it.

General harassment such as name calling and damage to cars and property while rare, is still out there.

Geuze

As a parent, I'm really concerned at how good a teacher are you, I don't really care about the rest.


For example, I want the kids to be fast at arithmetic, it's the outcomes I'm concerned about, not whether the teacher is tall/short/male/female, etc.

robp

spurious wrote: »

I know of one openly gay male principal of a small rural school and I know of a number of 'not out' secondary principals. I would have been quite involved in the TUI LGBT group and set up a general teachers' LGBT group back a couple of years before the INTO one.

I'm sure the doing away completely of the Section 37 legislation will make a big difference - it had some people really fearful for their jobs. Many gay teachers would be out in the staffroom but not in the classroom. That alone is of course a source of stress.

I have never ever heard of a straight teacher who is 'out' in the classroom. I think all teachers value privacy.

endacl

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

I have never known it to be an issue in any school, these days. But then, teachers I know who are LBGT are "discreet" in that they don't physically interact with their partners in public displays that hetro-sexual couples I know do. Not fair, I know, but unfortunately there are still some very narrow minded parents out there.

Not even an issue. I've been in the same staffroom for 14 years now. I've met the partners of three colleagues during this time. None have met mine. Private life is private life.

spurious

robp wrote: »

I have never ever heard of a straight teacher who is 'out' in the classroom. I think all teachers value privacy.

I suppose it's easy in a city. Not so easy in small rural towns - unless you do what some people do and have a whole other life elsewhere at the weekends.

TheDriver

It shouldn't matter but unfortunately there are some parents, members of BOM who are old fashioned/biggotted etc
Be discrete for your own sake until established as a teacher

strawberrie

If teaching is what will make you happy then go for it. Other people's attitudes are their own issues and a reflection on who they are. On a day to day basis in school sexuality won't come up. Education is and should be the priority

Nichard Dixon

Well I wouldn't want you teaching my children. As an adult I accommodate people with issues with all sorts of issues, but I don't think children need to to be subjected to this.

At one time teachers were aspirant role models, now they must be "representative" with everything weird and wonderful included. This is a teacher's forum, and everyone here will support that idea that it is the interests of the teacher that is important, not that of the children, and that it is me who is causing the problem, so I expect that I will be told to stop posting and a host of posts will arrive telling you to proceed regardless.

xLisaBx

Nichard Dixon wrote: »

Well I wouldn't want you teaching my children. As an adult I accommodate people with issues with all sorts of issues, but I don't think children need to to be subjected to this.

At one time teachers were aspirant role models, now they must be "representative" with everything weird and wonderful included. This is a teacher's forum, and everyone here will support that idea that it is the interests of the teacher that is important, not that of the children, and that it is me who is causing the problem, so I expect that I will be told to stop posting and a host of posts will arrive telling you to proceed regardless.

Subjected to what exactly? Genuinely not a harassment or sarcastic statement, just honestly curious as to what children would be subjected to in this case?

endacl

Nichard Dixon wrote: »

Well I wouldn't want you teaching my children. As an adult I accommodate people with issues with all sorts of issues, but I don't think children need to to be subjected to this.

At one time teachers were aspirant role models, now they must be "representative" with everything weird and wonderful included. This is a teacher's forum, and everyone here will support that idea that it is the interests of the teacher that is important, not that of the children, and that it is me who is causing the problem, so I expect that I will be told to stop posting and a host of posts will arrive telling you to proceed regardless.

Well. There's always one. Post away. Best have you out in the open.

EoghanIRL

Nichard Dixon wrote: »

Well I wouldn't want you teaching my children. As an adult I accommodate people with issues with all sorts of issues, but I don't think children need to to be subjected to this.

At one time teachers were aspirant role models, now they must be "representative" with everything weird and wonderful included. This is a teacher's forum, and everyone here will support that idea that it is the interests of the teacher that is important, not that of the children, and that it is me who is causing the problem, so I expect that I will be told to stop posting and a host of posts will arrive telling you to proceed regardless.

It is because of opinions like these that the OP had to make this thread in the first place.
It's ok to have your own opinion but not when it's offensive to others. Gay people don't have "issues". The only person who seems to have an issue is you.

endacl

EoghanIRL wrote: »

It is because of opinions like these that the OP had to make this thread in the first place.
It's ok to have your own opinion but not when it's offensive to others. Gay people don't have "issues". The only person who seems to have an issue is you.

We're all adults here. We can accommodate him. Wouldn't let him near kids though....

dubscottie

endacl wrote: »

We're all adults here. We can accommodate him. Wouldn't let him near kids though....

And why would that be? Come on say it..

mattP

Nichard Dixon wrote:

Well I wouldn't want you teaching my children. As an adult I accommodate people with issues with all sorts of issues, but I don't think children need to to be subjected to this.

Well at least everyone is represented I suppose. Why though? How would my sexuality affect me as a teacher?

Nichard Dixon wrote:

At one time teachers were aspirant role models, now they must be "representative" with everything weird and wonderful included. This is a teacher's forum, and everyone here will support that idea that it is the interests of the teacher that is important, not that of the children, and that it is me who is causing the problem, so I expect that I will be told to stop posting and a host of posts will arrive telling you to proceed regardless.

The fact that I am gay would have no bearing on the job in any way. I understand people have their own beliefs and that but I think its obscenely stupid to write me off based on my sexuality, everything so far indicates that I would be a great teacher. Ive been on work placement and its gone extremely well - so much so I taught sixth class French each day and they loved it.
I understand it's only concern (however much misplaced), but if you really do care for your kids worry about my teaching ability, not sexuality.

spurious

I don't mind blonde people, but keep them away from my kids. They don't need to be exposed to that.

Some of my friends are blonde.

otwb1

Nichard Dixon wrote:

Well I wouldn't want you teaching my children. As an adult I accommodate people with issues with all sorts of issues, but I don't think children need to to be subjected to this.

Am genuinely wondering whether someones private life would ever be reflected in the classroom?

I'm not a teacher, and I never bring my private life to work so it doesn't matter whether I'm gay, straight, single, married, have kids or not etc. I would also assume that, as professionals, teachers would do the same.

So OP, be a good teacher. Be a great role model in how you conduct yourself (no lying, cheating or stealing!) and no parent has any right to ask, or expect, anything else. Good luck with your career.

aunt aggie

Genuinely surprised...

I worked in a school where Mrs. A was out for a few weeks after her wife had a baby. Topics of discussion among students included a) awe isn't he so cute when they saw the pics, b) isn't it shocking how short paternity leave is? and c) is it still called paternity leave if a woman takes it?

...It's all ahead of ya Ireland. The kids will be just fine

katydid

otwb1 wrote: »

Am genuinely wondering whether someones private life would ever be reflected in the classroom?

I'm not a teacher, and I never bring my private life to work so it doesn't matter whether I'm gay, straight, single, married, have kids or not etc. I would also assume that, as professionals, teachers would do the same.

So OP, be a good teacher. Be a great role model in how you conduct yourself (no lying, cheating or stealing!) and no parent has any right to ask, or expect, anything else. Good luck with your career.

It's not like you'd be discussing your private life in the classroom, but things arise in conversation. The main thing is that a gay teacher should feel comfortable and not feel the need to hide if something arose in class, or if he or she met a student out and about.

TheDriver

Nichard Dixon wrote: »

Well I wouldn't want you teaching my children. As an adult I accommodate people with issues with all sorts of issues, but I don't think children need to to be subjected to this.

At one time teachers were aspirant role models, now they must be "representative" with everything weird and wonderful included. This is a teacher's forum, and everyone here will support that idea that it is the interests of the teacher that is important, not that of the children, and that it is me who is causing the problem, so I expect that I will be told to stop posting and a host of posts will arrive telling you to proceed regardless.

Wow.......just wow......

robp

TheDriver wrote: »

Wow.......just wow......

Mocking people's views. how progressive of you :rolleyes:
If pupils are being subject to a teacher's sexuality something is very wrong.

endacl wrote: »

Well. There's always one. Post away. Best have you out in the open.

Whats your problem?

katydid wrote: »

It's not like you'd be discussing your private life in the classroom, but things arise in conversation. The main thing is that a gay teacher should feel comfortable and not feel the need to hide if something arose in class, or if he or she met a student out and about.

Someone's private life should be hidden in the class room. Teachers are not there 'to be open about themselves'. It hugely undermines the teacher-pupil relationship.

endacl

robp wrote: »

Whats your problem?

(A) The moronic response to the OP's question.
(B) The fact that a young guy considering a potential career felt he had to take his sexuality into consideration and post his query. In this day and age.

evolving_doors

robp wrote: »

Whats your problem?


Someone's private life should be hidden in the class room. Teachers are not there 'to be open about themselves'. It hugely undermines the teacher-pupil relationship.

Like should I be taking off my wedding ring when I go into school?

Goodshape

Nichard Dixon wrote: »

Well I wouldn't want you teaching my children. As an adult I accommodate people with issues with all sorts of issues, but I don't think children need to to be subjected to this.

Well I wouldn't want you teaching my children. As an adult I accommodate people with all sorts of issues but I don't think children need to be subjected to this homophobic bigotry.

spurious

...and a good number of those children are gay. :eek:

endacl

spurious wrote: »

...and a good number of those children are gay. :eek:

Well. They wouldn't be if they hadn't caught it off the teacher. :mad:

solerina

No it doesn't, and it's a pity that the OP felt the need to ask !!!
Your private life is just that PRIVATE.

Annasopra

dubscottie wrote: »

And why would that be? Come on say it..

Cos he's a homophobe of course

http://aep.lib.rochester.edu/sites/default/files/imagecache/postermagnify/aep_posters/AP6305.jpg

Annasopra

solerina wrote: »

No it doesn't, and it's a pity that the OP felt the need to ask !!!
Your private life is just that PRIVATE.

Funny I remember loads of teachers being congratulated on different family events - weddings, children etc.

It really is a sad reflection on some here that they would probably still agree with Eileen Flynn being sacked.

byhookorbycrook

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Funny I remember loads of teachers being congratulated on different family events - weddings, children etc.

It really is a sad reflection on some here that they would probably still agree with Eileen Flynn being sacked.

i would disagree completely with this. I subbed in many schools down the years and the whole thing was treated as being mad.

moc moc a moc

mattP wrote: »

I'm gay, and im afraid that will make it a very awkward and difficult ordeal

How would anyone even know you are gay?

Nichard Dixon wrote: »

Well I wouldn't want you teaching my children. As an adult I accommodate people with issues with all sorts of issues, but I don't think children need to to be subjected to this.

I don't think they have gay versions of maths, Irish, business studies, etc. Pretty sure your children will be taught the exact same subjects regardless.

katydid

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

i would disagree completely with this. I subbed in many schools down the years and the whole thing was treated as being mad.

I don't think the problem would be in the staff rooms...

The Black Oil

robp wrote: »

Mocking people's views. how progressive of you :rolleyes:
If pupils are being subject to a teacher's sexuality something is very wrong.

What's wrong is your base assumption. Gay teachers are not going to be going around asking kids to swear an allegiance to Panti et al. This seems to be the perception amongst some and in these sort of debates.

December2012

I'm not a teacher but I am a parent to two primary school children. I don't need to know the sexuality of my children's teachers. That being said, if their teacher was lgbt I would have no problem with that.

I should add: if any teacher was subject to any harassment, bullying or discrimination based on their sexuality I would support that teacher as much as possible.


I would have a problem with their teacher being a homophobe.

Annasopra

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

i would disagree completely with this. I subbed in many schools down the years and the whole thing was treated as being mad.

What was treated as being mad?

Telling students about your family events?

Eileen Flynn?

markc2951

I don't know about primary but I'd say if you were a gay secondary school teacher they would rip you to shreds like a pack of lions...secondary school can be brutal for teacher and student

patsman07

Go ahead and do primary teaching, you will have very very few, if any, instances of repression from official sources. It would be worse if you were a vocal atheist, although thankfully the pressure is building for more secular schools.

Annasopra

markc2951 wrote: »

I don't know about primary but I'd say if you were a gay secondary school teacher they would rip you to shreds like a pack of lions...secondary school can be brutal for teacher and student

I think school attitudes have changed considerably in the last 10 years thanks to the work of Belong To, GLEN, TENI, Ministers and the department of education, unions and even strong advocates like McAleese.

My friend who went to an all girls school (convent) came out as a trans male in fifth year and it went overall fairly well.

Also I know many many 18 year old students registered to vote yes in May and it was very very popular amongst secondary schools to be wearing yes equality badges.

mattP

moc moc a moc wrote:

How would anyone even know you are gay?

Well I think marrying a guy would be a rather big give away:p *
I wouldn't lie if the topic of partners came up because then Id look like a coward when people found out one way or another...
*Wow, that sounds so normal, its amazing

RealJohn

1. A teacher's private life should not affect them in the classroom.
2. It's worry how some forms of intolerance are still accepted these days.
3. The intolerance I'm referring to right now is that anyone who is uncomfortable with the idea of a homosexual teaching is a homophobic bigot, which need not necessarily be the case.

Now personally, I don't have any issue with homosexual teachers. I have had homosexual colleagues and, as far as I know, it never affected their professional lives (though I suppose I'm unlikely to know).
On the other hand, I know that there were teachers in my school afraid to discuss the gay marriage referendum in my school, not because they were voting yes but because they were voting no. I know that being honest with my students when they asked me how I was voting (I voted no and told some of the older students that when asked) damaged my relationship with some of them, simply because they have been conditioned to believe that anyone who voted no was a homophobe (which, if we're honest, was one of the main tactics the yes campaign used). I'm not.

The one person on this thread who said that they wouldn't be comfortable with a homosexual teacher teaching their children has been roundly abused for saying so, even though there was nothing abusive in what they said.

Granted, I don't know what exactly they meant by "subjected to this" and I don't agree with their position personally but they are entitled to hold their opinion and voice it and it doesn't necessarily make them a bad person who deserves abuse (and it also doesn't mean they're not a bad person).

I do know that the abuse (and it was abuse) that I suffered for being honest about how I was voting (and similar abuse was suffered by anyone I spoke to and anyone I witnessed who were open about voting no), both from colleagues, students (though that's largely water off a duck's back) and strangers (online primarily) negatively affected my feelings towards homosexuals and anyone who supported them, not because I have an issue with homosexuals but because I was made to feel that they have an issue with me and that I was forced to defend myself (rather than my opinion, which of course I should have to defend). The way that poster who said they don't want their children being taught by a homosexual has been treated only fosters that feeling of resentment and distrust and ultimately (and this is a popular buzzword at the moment) radicalises them. This is not a positive thing, regardless of what opinion they hold.

I will add that while I felt some of my colleagues abused me for my position on the gay marriage referendum, some were respectful of my position and my willingness to discuss and debate it, in spite of the fact that they disagreed with me and that, I feel, improved my relationship with them and nurtured a culture of openness between us. By contrast, I still feel there's a 'distance' between myself and some other colleagues that had never been there before because of how they reacted to how I said I was voting. I'd love to know how those of you attacking the person who said they don't want homosexuals teaching their kids think that this is a positive thing, forcing people to keep their disapproval bottled up, being made to feel like they're bad people just for holding the opinion rather than for the reasoning behind it. Some of you have asked why the person feels that way and what exactly they mean by what they said. That's how it should be. Some others have simply been abusive. That helps nobody. It just fosters resentment and ill will.

Annasopra

I'm sorry the Yes campaign in the marriage equality did not use a tactic of "vote no and you are a homophobe" - this is pure nonsense. That may have been used by some who strongly agreed with the proposition but it is utter utter nonsense to suggest that it was one of the main yes campaign tactics used. It simply wasn't. The yes campaign was positive in engaging with voters. Any negativity such as ripping down posters, hijacking Youth Defences website and using images of Breda O Brien was requested to be ceased by yes campaigners.

The yes campaign used many many different tactics; door to door canvassing, calm reassurance, utilising campaign allies, building a grassroots movement overnight, creative use of social media, targeted local and national media, celebrities and ordinary people coming out.

I'm genuinely sorry that you felt that you were branded a homophobe but that simply was not a tactic that the Yes campaign undertook.

I know that for a fact. I was involved in 2 national campaigns. I organised hundreds of canvassers. They were always expressly told - be polite to no voters and do not engage in arguments or fighting. I sent out dozens of press releases. They were positive in their message. The only argument I had personally had on the doorstep was where I told a man that no I didnt want to marry my Brother. Most no voters were respectful and polite and I was respectful and polite back. If they were agressive I simply walked away. Despite the fact I wanted to scream abuse back at them. Despite the fact that some of their comments were hurtful bringing up child abuse etc.

I have seen many strategy documents from national campaigns and none of them used a tactic of attacking no voters or calling all no voters homophobes.

This did happen amongst the general populace but it definitely definitely was not a campaign tactic.

markc2951

Joeytheparrot wrote:

I think school attitudes have changed considerably in the last 10 years thanks to the work of Belong To, GLEN, TENI, Ministers and the department of education, unions and even strong advocates like McAleese.

Joeytheparrot wrote:

My friend who went to an all girls school (convent) came out as a trans male in fifth year and it went overall fairly well.

Joeytheparrot wrote:

Also I know many many 18 year old students registered to vote yes in May and it was very very popular amongst secondary schools to be wearing yes equality badges.

I'm out of school ten years,maybe it has changed a bit but not a lot I reckon..there was no gay people in my school then that anyone knew of..I can guarantee you gay people still get savage abuse in school

spurious

markc2951 wrote: »

I'm out of school ten years,maybe it has changed a bit but not a lot I reckon..there was no gay people in my school then that anyone knew of..I can guarantee you gay people still get savage abuse in school

I think it depends very much on the atmosphere allowed in the school. If teachers walk past lads using the word '******' or 'queer' at each other, then of course the message is given that that's OK. If the anti-bullying policy treats such comments as bullying and tackles every known occasion of them, then a very different message goes out.

We used to have a couple of very out strong characters among our students. The local kids knew them all their lives and the non-locals soon realised nobody was slagging these guys and followed suit.

I'm no longer teachng there, but I hear from my ex-colleagues there are a number of 'out' kids now, across all years, which can only be a good thing.

Bullying of gay teachers, while section 37 is about, is a whole other issue.

RealJohn

The official line and what happened in practice were very different things Joey and, whether you like it or not, anyone who vocally supported a yes vote was a campaigner, official or not.

Also, I didn't see or hear any of the more obvious figureheads of the yes campaign telling people not to call no voters bigots or homophobes, nor did I see it on any literature. If that was the official line, it certainly wasn't well publicised. I'd say it's almost as though the yes campaign were quite happy for it to happen, even if they were officially discouraging it (and I've saw no evidence that they were).

I find it interesting though that that is all you had to say about my post. It was a long post and the only thing that engaged you was a throwaway comment on one of my observations?
If that is the case, fair enough. Seems odd to me though.

Annasopra

RealJohn wrote: »

The official line and what happened in practice were very different things Joey and, whether you like it or not, anyone who vocally supported a yes vote was a campaigner, official or not.

Also, I didn't see or hear any of the more obvious figureheads of the yes campaign telling people not to call no voters bigots or homophobes, nor did I see it on any literature. If that was the official line, it certainly wasn't well publicised. I'd say it's almost as though the yes campaign were quite happy for it to happen, even if they were officially discouraging it (and I've saw no evidence that they were).

I find it interesting though that that is all you had to say about my post. It was a long post and the only thing that engaged you was a throwaway comment on one of my observations?
If that is the case, fair enough. Seems odd to me though.

It simply wasn't a yes campaign tactic. Its absolute nonsense and untrue to suggest it was. People who took action against no campaigns were asked to desist.

https://www.newstalk.com/reader/47.301/45407/0/
http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/same-sex-marriage-referendum-removal-5573116

Perhaps you don't understand what a "campaign tactic" is. Maybe you do. Can you point me to where yes campaigns asked there supporters to go round calling people homophobes or bigots?

Annasopra

markc2951 wrote: »

I'm out of school ten years,maybe it has changed a bit but not a lot I reckon..there was no gay people in my school then that anyone knew of..I can guarantee you gay people still get savage abuse in school

I didnt say all schools are completely free of homophobic and transphobic bullying.

I was stating factually that much work has been done by Belong To, GLEN, TENI, The Department, The Minister, Individual Teachers and Principals, The Unions, The Principals organisations, USS, USI, Shoutout and that this has trickled down quite well in many schools. Of course many schools still do have problems with homophobic and transphobic bullying. Many 16, 17 and 18 year olds come out as LGB and even T in school nowadays. There is in many schools more of a supportive framework than if this happened 10 years ago.

Again I emphasise it hasn't improved for all schools and all students and some students still face a horrendous daily school life but overall the cultutral situation in schools has improved in the last 10 years.

byhookorbycrook

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

What was treated as being mad?

Telling students about your family events?

Eileen Flynn?

Eileen Flynn being dismissed. If schools were to discriminate against single parents , most schools would lose huge numbers (and rightly so.) I can't see a teacher losing a job because of their sexuality or relationship status,bar the teacher being a practicing pedophile.