Little Known Rules and Common Misconceptions of the Rules of the Road for ALL users

GM228

A big problem with the rules and regulations of the roads is there are so many different pieces of legislation relating to them and often one piece of legislation repeals or amends a piece of another and so it is very difficult for people to find the correct information they are looking for. Despite the fact there has been many road traffic regulations over the years the Road Traffic Act 1961 (SI.24/1961) is still the principle regulation regarding the rules of the roads, the rules of the road are further supplemented and/or amended by a further 30+ different acts which are still in force.

Problem is someone who gained their licence many years ago learned one set of rules which may have since changed, but with no mandatory re-testing many people do not realise how some rules have been changed or implemented and often assume what they learned many years ago is still the law when that may not be the case.

The problem with users of the roads is:-

Some users don't know the rules.
Some users don't want to know the rules.
Some users think they know the rules.
Some users don't think the rules apply to them.
Some users know the rules, but don't understand them or when they apply.
Some users know the rules, but ignore them.
And other users know the rules, understand them and follow them.

Also laws do not get old and die or go out of date, they stay law as per the original wording unless amended or repealed by a subsequent piece of legislation. I once came across a person who was convinced a certain piece of legislation didn’t apply simply because it was 50 years old! In fact the oldest piece of legislation in Ireland still in effect is the 810 year old Fairs Act 1204, and the 800 year old City of Dublin Act 1214, needless to say the 1961 act is fairly young and still just as valid as any other act new or old.

I’ve attempted to list some of the lesser known rules of the roads and clarify some of what would appear to be common misconceptions as well based on what I’ve seen here personally and on Boards.

I wonder if a MOD could sticky this as no doubt it may become a valuable source of information/debate in the future when more unknowns/common misconceptions are highlighted.

Bus Lanes
We all know that buses (obviously), taxi’s and cyclists can use bus lanes during the hours of operation, and everyone can use them outside the hours of operation, but did you know that a vehicle carrying a member of the Government, a Minister of State (who regularly attends meetings of the Government), the Attorney General or the Ceann Comhairle (in the course of their duties) are also permitted to use Bus Lanes at any time. So the next time you see a car flying past you in the Bus Lane, just stop and think that they may actually be permitted to do so.

There seems to be some doubt if emergency services can use Bus Lanes legally, some believe they can’t whilst other believe they can, but only in an emergency situation, the fact is that they can use them at any time during the course of their duties.

Did you know that any vehicle exiting a Bus Lane is legally permitted to enter a Yellow Box and stop in it if the exit isn’t clear? (See Yellow Box’s below).

Cyclists
There is a common belief that there is an exemption to the laws allowing children to cycle on footpaths, this is not the case, there are no exceptions and it is just as illegal for a child to cycle on the path as it is an adult, however there is a catch 22 – under the Section 52 of the Children Act 2001 (as amended by Section 129 of The Criminal Justice Act 2006) a person under the age of 12 is exempted from criminall responsibility including minor offences.

Finally many people (most likely motorists) believe that cyclist can only cycle in single file, they can actually cycle two abreast, except for when overtaking in which case they must do so in single file, which means one cyclist can overtake two cyclist meaning for a moment there would be three abreast!

Also it would seem that many people (most likely mainly motorists) believe that cyclist must travel in cycle lanes when provided, that is not the case, a cyclist only has to use a cycle lane when in a contra-flow cycle lane or a cycle lane in a pedestrian street.

Emergency Services
Always the subject of great debate!

Emergency services (Gardai, Ambulance [including some private ambulances] and the Fire Bridgade) are exempt from the majority of the rules of the roads when on duty, such as speed limits, direction signs, traffic lights etc, these exemptions apply during the course of their duties, not just when responding to an emergency call etc. Oh and please no-one state but a Guard is never off duty because that isn’t true!

They are exempt from all the rules except a few, mostly dealing with drinking and drugs, but the two important ones they are not exempt from are: -

Road Traffic Act 1961 Sections 52 and 53 (as amended by subsequent acts);-

52.— (1) A person shall not drive a vehicle in a public place without due care and attention.

53.— (1) A person shall not drive a vehicle in a public place in a manner (including speed) which having regard to all the circumstances of the case (including the condition of the vehicle, the nature, condition and use of the place and the amount of traffic which then actually is or might reasonably be expected then to be in it) is or is likely to be dangerous to the public.

So whilst they can break the speed limit or ignore traffic lights they still must do so based on the above. They can't actually break any speed limits etc as they don't apply to them in the first place, but they must drive according to the above.

One thing to note is that whilst emergency services are exempt from the RTAs they are not technically permitted to drive on a Luas only street due to a technicality

Flashing (headlights of course!)
Some flash to say "go ahead", whilst others flash to state their presence on the road, who is correct? Neither.

Flashing of headlights is not defined in any road laws and as such it could be argued that it is technically illegal as per The Road Traffic (Lighting of Vehicles) Regulations, 1963 (SI 189/1963) because that section does not allow for exceptions.

42. No lamp (other than direction indicators) fitted to a vehicle shall show or be constructed or adapted so as to be capable of showing a flashing light unless such light is invisible to persons outside the vehicle.

NB-The required specifications for flashing indicators are given in law, but "flashing light" is still not defined.

You can be (and people have been) prosecuted for driving without due care for other road users or obstructing a Garda if you are caught flashing other cars about speed checks, obviously the latter does not apply to private speed vans.

In some US states it has been ruled by the courts that flashing headlights is protected free speech!

Hard Shoulders
It's illegal to drive in the hard shoulder on a motorway unless you are passing an obstruction which has blocked the carriageways, you can only stop on the hard shoulder of a motorway if you have been involved in an accident or broke down.

There is nothing in law to stop you driving in the hard shoulder of any other type of road.

Left lane(s) only, no overtaking
Vehicles which are limited to 90 km/h (by law, not by design) such as trucks, buses etc must not enter the rightmost lane of motorways and are thus only permitted to overtake on a motorway with three or more lanes. They can only enter the lane on the right if there is an obstruction on the left lanes. This applies to motorways only and not dual carriageways

Pedestrians
Pedestrians can walk on any road (except a motorway), but only if no footpath is provided.

Pedestrians must also walk towards the right side of the road (i.e towards oncoming traffic).

Roundabouts
Why on earth to people indicate incorrectly so often on a roundabout? For example how many times have you seen someone indicate right (and then left correctly when making the exit off the roundabout) when going straight through a roundabout (i.e the second exit on a four exit roundabout)?

Best way (but obviously not always the case) is to look at a roundabout and imagine it wasn't there and it was a cross-road instead, would you indicate right to keep going straight? No!

The proper way to do it, (I really shouldn't have to post this, but I feel I have to):-
Making a left turn: Approach in the left hand lane, indicate ‘left’ as you approach and continue to indicate until you have taken the left exit.

Going straight ahead (or any exit to the left of 12 o’clock): Approach in the left hand lane (unless road markings say otherwise) but do not indicate ‘left’ until you have passed the exit before the one you intend to take. Where traffic conditions dictate otherwise for example a long line of traffic in left lane signalling left or road works in the left lane, you may follow the course shown by the broken red line.

Taking any later exits (those past 12 o’clock - Right): Approach in the right hand lane (unless road markings say otherwise), indicate ‘right ‘on your approach and leave your indicator on until you have passed the exit before the one you intend to take. Then change to the ‘left’ turn indicator.

Great read here about yielding at a roundabout:-
http://www.independent.ie/regionals/wicklowpeople/news/give-way-when-approaching-roundabouts-27827006.html

Segways
Unfortunately they are not legal on the road or footpaths in Ireland! Only legal on private lands.

Speed Limits
Speed limits apply to all (except cyclists), but please remember a speed limit is a max permitted speed, not a target!

Stop/Yield Signs
For some reason a large amount of people believe that a Yield sign means “yield to traffic coming from your right”, this is actually incorrect, a Yield sign means you must yield to all traffic on the major road. A stop sign simply means you must stop before entering a major road, and then yield right of way to all traffic on a major road.

Yielding to traffic “from your right” only applies where a Yield/Stop sign is not present, you then must yield the right of way to traffic approaching the junction from the right by another road.

Tax and Insurance
There is common belief that when someone drives another car under their own insurance (if permitted) that the other car requires its own insurance and tax to be covered. Unless this is specified in the T&Cs of your insurance policy there is no legal requirement for the car to have tax or insurance of its own to be under cover. Currently no Irish insurer has those requirements as part of their T&Cs.

Display of Discs:- It would appear to be common belief that there is a grace period for display of car tax and insurance discs, there is, but only for the display of an insurance disc, however the Guards will use their discretion I suppose depending on the circumstances, car insurance has an exception as you don’t legally have to display an insurance disc until 10 days after it has commenced.

A vehicle can only be confiscated for no tax if there is a period of 2 months or more since the tax expired.

Traffic Lights
A traffic light with “BUS” in it does not actually mean it applies only to a bus or it is only applicable to a Bus Lane, it just so happens they only use them in Bus Lanes, for example when outside the hours of normal operation a “BUS” traffic light is still to be regarded as a standard traffic light for any traffic using the lane to which it applies.

How many pedestrians realise that they are not permitted to cross a road on a flashing green pedestrian light at a pelican crossing?

Not much else to say here except just to clarify contrary to what some believe that a yellow light does not mean go faster and a red light does not mean only stop in daylight or if there is no other traffic – also traffic lights apply to ALL road users including cyclists, drovers etc. Oh and by the way, green doesn’t actually mean simply “go”, it means go if the road ahead is clear!

Yellow Box’s
Most people believe that you can’t enter a Yellow Box unless the exit is clear – with no exceptions, this is not true, there are two exceptions (and only two) to the rule, you can enter a yellow box when the exit is blocked if turning right at a junction or exiting a bus lane into the next lane.

You can’t enter a yellow box outside an entranceway to merge with a road unless the exit is clear, some may believe you can if exiting from the entranceway just like the bus lane scenario, but you can’t, as I said there are only two exemptions.

OTHER/SILLY STUFF
It is a common belief that a Taxi is legally required to carry a bail of hey in the boot – unfortunately this isn’t and never was law here, however this was the case in London under The London Hackney Carriage Act 1831 and it was only repealed in 1976! The same law also allowed a taxi driver wee on the side of the road IF covered from passers-by by a policeman’s coat.

Did you know: Whilst all traffic is supposed to stay as far as possible to the left of a lane or carriageway, horses were legally required to travel on the right of a lane, this error in the law was only corrected in 1997!

Everyone else feel free to add to the above!

GM228

Carawaystick

Part of the reason the RTA's are a mess is because Myles na gCapalín wrote them ( partly to suit his feicless attitude to the law)


Does the legislation directory consolidate the RTA's much?

We'll have to get you to do a better one like lxflyer does for the Leapcard stuff



There are also a load of SI's to contend with, and there's also the section in some law (someone else might be able to point it out ) that you can't do anything dangerous, which on the cycling board reckon is a get out of jail free exemption to lots of RTA things

jmkennedyie

Thanks for posting. Maybe clarity on...

On two or more lane carriageways, you must stay in left-most lane unless overtaking?
Trucks, buses can't enter the outer lane?

Legally you indicate right if taking the third exit on roundabout? Not very sensible I think if that is at your 10 or 11 o'clock approaching the roundabout...

GM228

Carawaystick wrote: »

Part of the reason the RTA's are a mess is because Myles na gCapalín wrote them ( partly to suit his feicless attitude to the law)


Does the legislation directory consolidate the RTA's much?

We'll have to get you to do a better one like lxflyer does for the Leapcard stuff



There are also a load of SI's to contend with, and there's also the section in some law (someone else might be able to point it out ) that you can't do anything dangerous, which on the cycling board reckon is a get out of jail free exemption to lots of RTA things

No, legislation can not be consolidated, it must be shown in it's original enacted form, although I do have my own consolidated versions of the act.

The RTA 1961 sections 51A and 52 and 53 deal with dangerous driving!

GM228

HivemindXX

GM228 wrote: »

How many pedestrians realise that they are not permitted to cross a road on a flashing green pedestrian light at a pelican crossing?

Not me. Whereabouts in the RTA does it say that?

GM228

HivemindXX wrote: »

Not me. Whereabouts in the RTA does it say that?

The Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Regulations 1997 (SI. 182/1997) Section 46 (3):-

A pedestrian about to cross a roadway at a place where traffic sign number RPC 003 or RPC 004 [pedestrian lights] has been provided shall do so only when a lamp of the facing pedestrian lights is lit and emits a constant green light.

GM228

Carawaystick

GM228 wrote: »

No, legislation can not be consolidated, it must be shown in it's original enacted form, although I do have my own consolidated versions of the act.

GM228

The AG has published restated (aka reconsolidated) laws.
The Legislation Directory reconsolidates these, but seems more concerned with the changes, than the current state of the law.

If you have a copy, is it in a state to share it (privately or publicly)?
Or can you edit your OP to include links?

GM228

Carawaystick wrote: »

The AG has published restated (aka reconsolidated) laws.
The Legislation Directory reconsolidates these, but seems more concerned with the changes, than the current state of the law.

If you have a copy, is it in a state to share it (privately or publicly)?
Or can you edit your OP to include links?

You can get consolidated copies of a large number of acts from the Law Reform Commission, however the Statute Book can-not display consolidated acts, some acts in the directory will give references to parts which are appealed/amended, but it is not a complete directory.

GM228

GM228

jmkennedyie wrote: »

Thanks for posting. Maybe clarity on...

On two or more lane carriageways, you must stay in left-most lane unless overtaking?
Trucks, buses can't enter the outer lane?

Legally you indicate right if taking the third exit on roundabout? Not very sensible I think if that is at your 10 or 11 o'clock approaching the roundabout...

Applies to vehicles under 90 km/h (i.e trucks/buses etc) on motorways only:-

The Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Regulations 1997 (SI. 182/1997) Section 33 (1)(d) as amended by Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) (Amendment) Regulations 2012 (SI. 74.2012):-

Rules for Traffic on Motorways

33 (1) A driver on a motorway shall not—

(d) drive a vehicle of a class for which an ordinary speed limit of not more than 90 kilometres per hour is prescribed by regulations under section 3 and 4 of the Road Traffic Act, 2004 in the traffic lane nearest the right hand edge of a carriageway having more than one traffic lane except where it is necessary to proceed in that lane due to an obstruction or because another lane or lanes is or are for the time being closed to traffic.

GM228

EDIT: OP updated.

Owryan

One that bugs me and i see it every day, using hard shoulders as an extra lane on the road. Often used imo by people who dont feel capable of driving on those big nasty roads. Also, everyday i see people using hard shoulders to exit T-junctions, instead of waiting till it is safe to pull out

GM228

Owryan wrote: »

One that bugs me and i see it every day, using hard shoulders as an extra lane on the road. Often used imo by people who dont feel capable of driving on those big nasty roads. Also, everyday i see people using hard shoulders to exit T-junctions, instead of waiting till it is safe to pull out

Driving in a hard shoulder is only illegal on a motorway, the only time your allowed into a hard shoulder on a motorway is if you break down, are involved in an accudent or to avoid an obstruction blocking other lanes.

There is nothing in law preventing anyone from driving in the hard shoulder on a road which isn't a motorway!

GM228

EDIT: OP updated.

GM228

Carawaystick wrote: »

We'll have to get you to do a better one like lxflyer does for the Leapcard

Unfortunately after 48 hours I won't be able to edit the OP!

GM228

cython

GM228 wrote: »

Applies to vehicles under 90 km/h (i.e trucks/buses etc) on motorways only:-

The Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Regulations 1997 (SI. 182/1997) Section 33 (1)(d) as amended by Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) (Amendment) Regulations 2012 (SI. 74.2012):-



GM228

EDIT: OP updated.

Your OP still has a gap around this, I'm afraid, specifically in the context of a three lane motorway like much of the M50. At time of writing, it reads

Left lane only, no overtaking
Vehicles which are limited to 90 km/h (by law, not by design) such as trucks, buses etc must remain in the left lane of motorways and are not permitted to overtake. They can only enter a lane on the right if there is an obstruction on the left lane. This applies to motorways only and not dual carriageways etc.

Surely it would be more accurate to say something like

Left lane(s) only, no overtaking
Vehicles which are limited to 90 km/h (by law, not by design) such as trucks, buses etc must not enter the rightmost lane of motorways and are thus only permitted to overtake on a motorway with three or more lanes. They can only enter the lane on the right if there is an obstruction on the left lanes. This applies to motorways only and not dual carriageways etc.

The section of the law you quoted in relation to this allows exactly what I have outlined above.

Del.Monte

Zebra Crossings are one of my major gripes with motorists most of whom appear to think that they are something:

a) To ignore.

b) To accelerate across before a pedestrian can attempt to use.

c) To move onto as soon as the pedestrian has passed the front of their car.

Like so many other things wrong with motoring today (speeding, phoning/texting etc.) it's out of control but in a land where the car is king nothing is going to change anytime soon.

http://www.drivingschoolireland.com/pedestrians.html

highdef

What if there is tractor traveling along a two lane motorway at its to speed of 60kmph and an articulated truck bears up behind it. Does the truck have to wait until the tractor exits because it's not allowed into lane two?

GM228

cython wrote: »

Your OP still has a gap around this, I'm afraid, specifically in the context of a three lane motorway like much of the M50. At time of writing, it reads


Surely it would be more accurate to say something like


The section of the law you quoted in relation to this allows exactly what I have outlined above.

Well spotted, you are 100% correct, I forgot to take into account our 3 lane motorways!

Thanks for that, OP updated as per your suggestion!

GM228

EDIT: You could argue our 3-lane M50 is actually Ireland's largest car park and so the 3-lane rule is irrelevant.

GerardKeating

highdef wrote: »

What if there is tractor traveling along a two lane motorway at its to speed of 60kmph and an articulated truck bears up behind it. Does the truck have to wait until the tractor exits because it's not allowed into lane two?

Is a tractor allowed on a motorway?

GM228

highdef wrote: »

What if there is tractor traveling along a two lane motorway at its to speed of 60kmph and an articulated truck bears up behind it. Does the truck have to wait until the tractor exits because it's not allowed into lane two?

The tractor should not be on the motorway by law anyway, but if it was then legally the truck cannot overtake it unless there are three lanes!

GM228

GM228

GerardKeating wrote: »

Is a tractor allowed on a motorway?

No!

GM228

highdef

I could well be wrong but I thought a tractor can travel on a motorway as long as it can exceed the minimum speed limit of 50kmph? A ridiculously low limit for a motorway, I must admit

GM228

highdef wrote: »

I could well be wrong but I thought a tractor can travel on a motorway as long as it can exceed the minimum speed limit of 50kmph? A ridiculously low limit for a motorway, I must admit

A tactor is taxed as an agricultural vehicle, an agricultural vehicle cannot exceed 40 km/h and so is not legal on a motorway.

There will be special speed exemptions in the future for some tractors which will require them to carry a special max speed disc (i.e 50 km/h etc), but it will only apply in certain circumstances to vehicles first registered after January 1st 2016, so in the future it may be possible to see a tractor legally on a motorway!

GM228

highdef

I've heard it being said that some of the newer tractors that can travel at speeds of up to 70 or 80 are allowed to do so on motorways. In fact, on a few occasions, I have seen Garda cars pass such vehicles driving at those sorts of speeds and no action is taken. This has been on the m4.

GM228

highdef wrote: »

I've heard it being said that some of the newer tractors that can travel at speeds of up to 70 or 80 are allowed to do so on motorways. In fact, on a few occasions, I have seen Garda cars pass such vehicles driving at those sorts of speeds and no action is taken. This has been on the m4.

They are limited to 40 km/h by law, design speed dosn't matter, they shouldn't be on a motorway by law.

GM228

looksee

42. No lamp (other than direction indicators) fitted to a vehicle shall show or be constructed or adapted so as to be capable of showing a flashing light unless such light is invisible to persons outside the vehicle.

This does not appear to be aimed at an individual flashing their headlights, but to lights which can be set to flash. You would have to have quite complicated instructions to cover going briefly, manually, from on to off and back, or from dipped to full beam and back. I have flashed oncoming traffic on occasion to warn of an obstruction or hazard in the road.

GM228

looksee wrote: »

This does not appear to be aimed at an individual flashing their headlights, but to lights which can be set to flash. You would have to have quite complicated instructions to cover going briefly, manually, from on to off and back, or from dipped to full beam and back. I have flashed oncoming traffic on occasion to warn of an obstruction or hazard in the road.

Indeed I did say it's not clearly defined what flashing is, however it does not specify that it has to be set to flash, just that it can flash, it's a bit of a very grey area.

However it does say "no lamp", "shall show" which is specific, there is no difference between a flashing indicator light or a headlight except for how it is controlled, i.e a headlight is manually flashed by hand whilst an indicator is flashed via a relay or a circuit.

GM228

looksee

GM228 wrote: »

Indeed I did say it's not clearly defined what flashing is, however it does not specify that it has to be set to flash, it's a bit of a grey area.

GM228

Isn't that the difference between a 'flashing light' and a light that can be flashed?

BrianD3

With regard to roundabouts, signalling and lane discipline are relatively trivial issues compared to the fundamental question about whether a a vehicle approaching the roundabout has priority over a vehicle already on the roundabout if the approaching vehicle is coming from that vehicle's right.

This leads to the dangerous practise of cars approaching roundabouts at speed and thinking that that they can bomb through it once there is nothing coming from their right. The faster they approach, the "more priority" they think they have.

This letter from the Irish Indo sums up the situation well
http://www.independent.ie/regionals/wicklowpeople/news/give-way-when-approaching-roundabouts-27827006.html

GM228

BrianD3 wrote: »

With regard to roundabouts, signalling and lane discipline are relatively trivial issues compared to the fundamental question about whether a a vehicle approaching the roundabout has priority over a vehicle already on the roundabout if the approaching vehicle is coming from that vehicle's right.

This leads to the dangerous practise of cars approaching roundabouts at speed and thinking that that they can bomb through it once there is nothing coming from their right. The faster they approach, the "more priority" they think they have.

This letter from the Irish Indo sums up the situation well
http://www.independent.ie/regionals/wicklowpeople/news/give-way-when-approaching-roundabouts-27827006.html

Excellent points, do you mind if I copy that link into the OP?

GM228

Pinch Flat

Del.Monte wrote: »

Zebra Crossings are one of my major gripes with motorists most of whom appear to think that they are something:

a) To ignore.

b) To accelerate across before a pedestrian can attempt to use.

c) To move onto as soon as the pedestrian has passed the front of their car.

Like so many other things wrong with motoring today (speeding, phoning/texting etc.) it's out of control but in a land where the car is king nothing is going to change anytime soon.

http://www.drivingschoolireland.com/pedestrians.html

Have to say this is a bug bear of mine. It's got beyond ridiculous - plenty of drivers will either ignore them, or else straddle their cars across them in heavy traffic.

I was crossing in Dublin city at holles street a couple of weeks back - a taxi and a car sailed through the pedestrian green. If I had of just walked out on a green light, not sure what would have happened. Pregnant woman crossing with me - presumably going to or from the maternity hospital. It's a common occurrence, to the extent that I have zero faith in pedestrian crossings - the one near my sons school, drivers will frequently accelerate on orange and sail though reds - even with school kids about.

BrianD3

GM228 wrote: »

Excellent points, do you mind if I copy that link into the OP?

GM228

Yes please copy link - however, proving that the POV expressed in that letter is correct is not going to be easy and could result in a big thread all on its own.

Like this one
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055065353

GM228

BrianD3 wrote: »

Yes please copy link - however, proving that the POV expressed in that letter is correct is not going to be easy and could result in a big thread all on its own.

Like this one
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055065353

Best not go there so

GM228

GM228

looksee wrote: »

Isn't that the difference between a 'flashing light' and a light that can be flashed?

That's the problem, "flashing light" isn't defined, leaving it open to interpretation, I'll reword the OP to reflect that.

GM228

savagethegoat

can I add that you do not have to wait for a green filter arrow to light if the main light is a full green. (model Farm Rd Cork outside the Motor Tax Office for instance)

Great thread...should be required reading in all schools

GM228

savagethegoat wrote: »

can I add that you do not have to wait for a green filter arrow to light if the main light is a full green. (model Farm Rd Cork outside the Motor Tax Office for instance)

Great thread...should be required reading in all schools

Spot on.

However, it should be noted that when the main light is green you still must obey the filter if it displays a yellow or red for the direction it applies (common sense), and then wait for the filter light to either also display green or for the yellow/red to extinguish.

GM228

BrianD3

Trailer towing is another area which is rife with myths and misunderstandings. There are plenty of people out there who think there is a rule that you need a 4 wheel drive to tow a twin axle trailer (myth) At the same time, they are unaware of the actual rules on towing weights, licences etc.

I recently did a defensive driving course and the ROSPA advanced driving instructor was wrong about some things related to towing. I'm also of the opinion that some Gardai (even Traffic Corps) don't know the rules.

GM228

BrianD3 wrote: »

Trailer towing is another area which is rife with myths and misunderstandings. There are plenty of people out there who think there is a rule that you need a 4 wheel drive to tow a twin axle trailer (myth) At the same time, they are unaware of the actual rules on towing weights, licences etc.

I recently did a defensive driving course and the ROSPA advanced driving instructor was wrong about some things related to towing. I'm also of the opinion that some Gardai (even Traffic Corps) don't know the rules.

Indeed, the towing of trailers is not based on axles!

Trailer Categories:

O1 Trailers = DGVW less than 0.75 tonnes. This includes small car trailers
O2 Trailers = DGVW between 0.75 and 3.5 tonnes. This includes large trailers, horse boxes and most caravans.
O3 Trailers = DGVW over 10 tonnes. This includes heavy trailers and articulated or semi-trailers.

Towing an O1 or an O2 trailer with a car, 4x4 or a small van

With an ordinary category B license a person can:

Tow a trailer up to 0.75 tonnes DGVW, with a vehicle with a DGVW of up to 3.5 tonnes and seating for up to 8 passengers (apart from the driver). The combination weight cannot exceed 4.25 tonnes.

Tow a trailer exceeding 0.75 tonnes DGVW, provided that the DGVW of the trailer does not exceed the un-laden weight of the towing vehicle, and the maximum combination weight does not exceed a total of 3.5 tonnes.

With an EB license a person can:

Tow a trailer exceeding 0.75 tonnes DGVW, with a vehicle with a DGVW of up to 3.5 tonnes and seating for up to eight passengers (apart from the driver) provided that the manufacturer’s rated towing capacity for the towing vehicle is not exceeded.

Towing O3 trailers is vehicle/licence restricted.

GM228

looksee

BrianD3 wrote: »

With regard to roundabouts, signalling and lane discipline are relatively trivial issues compared to the fundamental question about whether a a vehicle approaching the roundabout has priority over a vehicle already on the roundabout if the approaching vehicle is coming from that vehicle's right.

This leads to the dangerous practise of cars approaching roundabouts at speed and thinking that that they can bomb through it once there is nothing coming from their right. The faster they approach, the "more priority" they think they have.

This letter from the Irish Indo sums up the situation well
http://www.independent.ie/regionals/wicklowpeople/news/give-way-when-approaching-roundabouts-27827006.html

I am not sure what the problem here is. I always give way to traffic on the roundabout when approaching, and of necessity they are approaching from my right. Is the issue highlighted above that the vehicles should pause on the entrance to the roundabout, regardless of traffic on it? I thought the idea was to keep the flow going? Excess speed is of course poor driving, but what is meant by the highlighted phrase above?

godfather2

ok silly question maybe, but what rules apply to taxi drivers and where they can and can't stop?

GM228

godfather2 wrote: »

ok silly question maybe, but what rules apply to taxi drivers and where they can and can't stop?

A taxi can "park" to pick up/drop off more or less anywhere a vehicle can normally stop, they can also park to pick/up drop off in a bus lane and on single yellow lines at all times, however a taxi is not permitted to use a contra-flow bus lane.

They can't however park up to await a fare (other than a pre-booked fare and then subject to normal parking restrictions), at anywhere other than a taxi rank. They also can't pick up a fare at the airport unless they have a permit to do so.

Something to note, whilst a taxi with a fare is allowed to use a bus lane, a taxi without a fare is also allowed to use a bus lane, but only if going to a pre-booked fare.

Hackneys are required to follow the normal rules of the road and taxi exemptions do not apply to them.

GM228

godfather2

Thank you for that so motorways are a definite no, no. Know somebody who will be very happy to hear that. I thought the same but wasn't completely sure.
Thank you.

GM228

godfather2 wrote: »

Thank you for that so motorways are a definite no, no. Know somebody who will be very happy to hear that. I thought the same but wasn't completely sure.
Thank you.

No vehicle may stop on a motorway for any reason except if there is an obstruction, break down/accident or a service area (which I suppose is off the motorway).

Also to note if involved in an accident on a motorway you are required (if possible) to move your vehicle to the hard shoulder, many don't realise that and leave their vehicles as is!

GM228

HivemindXX

Thanks for answering my earlier question. I've been poking around on http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ and I was wondering if you could tell me where I could find out what the various signs mentioned actually are.

For example, apparently you are not to park where signs RUS 009, RUS 058 or RUS 059 are. These would seem to be related to cycle lanes but I'm interested in knowing exactly what they look like.

Is it possible to get that information on some official web page?

GM228

HivemindXX wrote: »

Thanks for answering my earlier question. I've been poking around on http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ and I was wondering if you could tell me where I could find out what the various signs mentioned actually are.

For example, apparently you are not to park where signs RUS 009, RUS 058 or RUS 059 are. These would seem to be related to cycle lanes but I'm interested in knowing exactly what they look like.

Is it possible to get that information on some official web page?

They are listed in various acts over the years and updated as they change such as in these:-

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1962/si/171/made/en/print

But some of then are out of date!

The ends of these two documents will give you what you need:-

http://www.dttas.ie/sites/default/files/publications/roads/english/traffic-signs-manual-2010/traffic-signs-manual-2010-chapter-5-regulatory-signs.pdf

http://www.dttas.ie/sites/default/files/publications/roads/english/traffic-signs-manual-2010/traffic-signs-manual-2010-chapter-6-warning-signs.pdf

Oh and don't forget this new bad boy!

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2014/si/488/made/en/print

GM228

Irish Steve

Might be worth mentioning that when making a delivery in the Dublin area, commercial vehicles are allowed to park for up to 20 minutes on yellow lines. I don't know if the same rule applies to other parts of the country or not.

Also might be worth mentioning that there are lower speed limits that apply when towing, don't have the specifics to hand, and that it is a requirement that if the lights on the back of the towing vehicle are not visible, there must be working lights on the rear of the trailer, with a number plate that matches the towing vehicle.

GM228

Irish Steve wrote: »

Might be worth mentioning that when making a delivery in the Dublin area, commercial vehicles are allowed to park for up to 20 minutes on yellow lines. I don't know if the same rule applies to other parts of the country or not.

Also might be worth mentioning that there are lower speed limits that apply when towing, don't have the specifics to hand, and that it is a requirement that if the lights on the back of the towing vehicle are not visible, there must be working lights on the rear of the trailer, with a number plate that matches the towing vehicle.

It applies to the entire country, and it's 30 minutes, not 20, further to that, after the 30 minutes you may not park again on that portion of the road until 60 minutes have passed!

Maximum speed for towing a trailer is 80 km/h (90km/h under certain conditions on a motorway).

There should also be lights at the back of a horse drawn cart at night-so where to I connect those brake lights to on the horse again?

GM228

AlekSmart

GM228 wrote: »

You are wrong I'm afraid, a tactor is taxed as an agricultural vehicle, an agricultural vehicle cannot exceed 40 km/h and so is not legal on a motorway.

There will be special speed exemptions in the future for some tractors which will require them to carry a special max speed disc (i.e 50 km/h etc), but it will only apply in certain circumstances to vehicles first registered after January 1st 2016, so in the future it may be possible to see a tractor legally on a motorway!

GM228

It should be borne in mind that not ALL Tractors may be taxed as Agricultural/Excavator.

Some may be taxed at "General Haulage Tractor" or "Mobile Machine" rate.

Many posters may be referring to MB-Trac,Fendt,John Deere type tractors used for machinery haulage and recovery work.

These may be geared to allow for a minimum of 50KPH to be maintained,and thus permitted on Motorways.

The various Taxation Classifications are here.

https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/motortaxinfotype.do;jsessionid=0aa0114830d748fc04c97b654935bb64cd0b17294531.e38PaNaSbhuOay0Mch8Me0

AlekSmart

GM228 wrote: »

That's the problem, "flashing light" isn't defined, leaving it open to interpretation, I'll reword the OP to reflect that.

GM228

There are in fact regulations concerning flashing direction indicators as fitted to MPV's after 1st July 1964.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1963/si/189/made/en/print#zzsi189y1963a3

(9) (a) A direction indicator showing a flashing light shall, when in operation, show a light which flashes constantly at the rate of not less than 60 nor more than 120 flashes per minute, each flash being of such duration as to permit the light to achieve its full brightness and to be fully observable at a reasonable distance, the interval between flashes being similarly discernible.


(b) The light shall begin to flash not later than one second after the control of the indicator is operated.

These specs are AFAIAA still current.

Nichard Dixon

The tractor thing is quite simple, only vehicles capable of 80Kmh should be allowed on motorways, not 50kmh.

GM228

AlekSmart wrote: »

There are in fact regulations concerning flashing direction indicators as fitted to MPV's after 1st July 1964.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1963/si/189/made/en/print#zzsi189y1963a3



These specs are AFAIAA still current.

That is correct, and that still stands, however that rules just gives the legal required specifications of the flash cycle for indicators, there is still no legal definition anywhere in the law in this country which describes what "flashing lights" means - it's a grey area.

GM228

GM228

AlekSmart wrote: »

It should be borne in mind that not ALL Tractors may be taxed as Agricultural/Excavator.

Some may be taxed at "General Haulage Tractor" or "Mobile Machine" rate.

Many posters may be referring to MB-Trac,Fendt,John Deere type tractors used for machinery haulage and recovery work.

These may be geared to allow for a minimum of 50KPH to be maintained,and thus permitted on Motorways.

The various Taxation Classifications are here.

https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/motortaxinfotype.do;jsessionid=0aa0114830d748fc04c97b654935bb64cd0b17294531.e38PaNaSbhuOay0Mch8Me0

Yes you are correct, (I forgot about that!).

So I suppose the correct thing to say is most tractors can't legally use a motorway.

GM228

L1011

There are also restrictions on using agridiesel (which most tractors do) in vehicles capable of going above a certain speed, from memory, which means they can't use motorways on agri.