Monthly Medjugorje message.

lazybones32

I will post the message relayed by Our Lady to Marija Lunetti on the 25th of each Month, beginning with October 2015. This message is intended for the whole World

One reason why Our Lady appears is, in her own words:
"I have come to tell the world that God exists. He is the fullness of life, and to enjoy this fullness and peace, you must return to God".

The English language version of the website of the Official Information centre (Mir*) is http://medjugorje.ie/ which contains a lot of information regarding everything** related to the apparitions - past messages; Church position; medical results of tests on the visionaries; testimonies and the main emphasis of Our Lady's messages.

* Mir translates as 'Peace'.
** Couldn't find any link for the '10 Secrets'. I assume they are downplaying this aspect, as the visionaries do.


October 25, 2015

“Dear children!
Also today, my prayer is for all of you, especially for all those who have become hard of heart to my call. You are living in the days of grace and are not conscious of the gifts which God is giving to you through my presence. Little children, decide also today for holiness and take the example of the saints of this time and you will see that holiness is a reality for all of you. Rejoice in the love, little children, that in the eyes of God you are unrepeatable and irreplaceable, because you are God’s joy in this world. Witness peace, prayer and love. Thank you for having responded to my call.”

cattolico

Didn't Jesus come to tell the world that God exists? If the World did not believe him, they are not going to believe Medjugorje.

lazybones32

cattolico wrote: »

Didn't Jesus come to tell the world that God exists?

Jesus says He came for a few reasons - one of which will be mentioned in this Sunday's Gospel: the Feast of Christ the King.
Jesus came to the Jewish community who believed in God. Our Lady was sent to the former Yugoslavia, who under Communism were told "God does not exist".

cattolico wrote: »

If the World did not believe him, they are not going to believe Medjugorje.

God never stops seeking those He created and loves. He constantly sends teachers, messengers and prophets.

cattolico

lazybones32 wrote: »

He constantly sends teachers, messengers and prophets.

How do we know that he sent a message to Medjugorje? They have to much financial interests in the phenomenon to be credible. They have created an industry on their word along.

lazybones32

cattolico wrote: »

How do we know that he sent a message to Medjugorje? They have to much financial interests in the phenomenon to be credible. They have created an industry on their word along.

By reading the message, praying and discerning; by examining the fruits; by reading what the Church has so far declared about the phenomenon. Read the actual documents - which are available on the site linked - instead of reading an editors version/interpretation of what was said. There are comments by Popes, Cardinals, Bishops, Priests and Laity all available (Irish journalist Heather Parson's account might be of interest to you). If you make some effort to discover whether this is true or false, you will find an answer very quickly and you can embrace or reject it as you see fit.

What "financial interests" are the visionaries involved in? I'm not aware of their financial situation.

hinault

lazybones32 wrote: »

By reading the message, praying and discerning; by examining the fruits; by reading what the Church has so far declared about the phenomenon. Read the actual documents - which are available on the site linked - instead of reading an editors version/interpretation of what was said. There are comments by Popes, Cardinals, Bishops, Priests and Laity all available (Irish journalist Heather Parson's account might be of interest to you). If you make some effort to discover whether this is true or false, you will find an answer very quickly and you can embrace or reject it as you see fit.

What "financial interests" are the visionaries involved in? I'm not aware of their financial situation.

I have to admit that anyone I know who subscribes to, and may visit, Medjugorje appears to me to be fully convinced as to the authenticity of what is said to be happening there.

I've heard other Catholics say that Medjugorje is not genuine.

I don't hold a view one way or the other, except to say that if Medjugorje sees people returning to the sacraments of the Catholic Church then it is a good thing.

I know that the Church has not declared (yet) as to the authenticity of what is said to be happening there.

La Fenetre

hinault wrote: »

I have to admit that anyone I know who subscribes to, and may visit, Medjugorje appears to me to be fully convinced as to the authenticity of what is said to be happening there.

I've heard other Catholics say that Medjugorje is not genuine.

I don't hold a view one way or the other, except to say that if Medjugorje sees people returning to the sacraments of the Catholic Church then it is a good thing.

I know that the Church has not declared (yet) as to the authenticity of what is said to be happening there.

Medjugorje is an interesting place, to say the least. It's not for everyone.

There's a lot of rubbish talked about Medjugorje, by both well meaning proponents and objectors alike.

Untill recent years, I would have been a strong Medjugorje skeptic. Now I'm more neutral about it, but carefully so.
Through chance circumstances, I ended up spending a week in Medjugorje, I went there with no preconceptions either way, and seen some of the visionaries, and been there during their apparitions. I don't know if their private visions are authentic or not, but in my opinion, they themselves believe that they are. That of course does not mean that the visions are authentic.

I'll leave any decision regarding authenticity up to the Church investigation. I can't see them ever approving of Medjugorje until the last of the visionaries passes away or their visions completely cease, as that could be confused with pre-approval of any future messages. I can see them ruling against Medjugorje, or leaving an open verdict for now, quicker than approving of them, as that's a much safer option.

And at any rate, the Church itself is quite clear that even concerning approved visions from Knock, Lourdes and Fatima, belief is not required, and private revelations tell us nothing new, the Church has always been keen to stress that. They can be an aid to spirituality, if a person so wishes.

What I did find at Medjugorje, was many examples of quite profound spiritual experiences from many people I talked with. I think these can at least be partially be explained by the amount of prayer and faith that is there, and if only that amount of prayer and faith was displayed elsewhere, I'm pretty sure spiritual miracles would also abound there as well.

I'd say this is the part the Church finds hardest to deal with, as people might confuse the pretty numerous spiritual miracles and fruits of prayer that have occurred there, with the visions being authentic. Two different things in my opinion. Medjugorje is a complex situation for the Church to say the least. I wouldn't like to be the one having to rule on it.

I did find it an excellent place for a spiritual week and private pilgrimage, and I'd love to go back for those reasons more than anything else. From what I've seen, no two peoples experience of Medjugorje is exactly the same. It is hard to explain unless you've been, and I found that in itself surprising.

hinault

La Fenetre wrote: »

Medjugorje is an interesting place, to say the least. It's not for everyone.

There's a lot of rubbish talked about Medjugorje, by both well meaning proponents and objectors alike.

Though chance circumstances, I ended up spending a week in Medjugorje, I went there with no preconceptions either way, and seen some of the visionaries, and been there during their apparitions. I don't know if their private visions are authentic or not, but I'm pretty sure they themselves believe that they are. That of course does not mean that the visions are authentic.

I'll leave any decision regarding authenticity up to the Church investigation. I can't see them ever approving of Medjugorje until the last of the visionaries passes away or their visions completely cease, as that could be confused with pre-approval of the messages. I can see them ruling against Medjugorje, or leaving an open verdict for now, quicker than approving of them, as that's a much safer option.

And at any rate, the Church itself is quite clear that even concerning approved visions from Knock, Lourdes and Fatima, belief is not required, and private revelations tell us nothing new, the Church has always been keen to stress that. They can be an aid to spirituality, if a person so wishes.

What I did find at Medjugorje, was many examples of quite profound spiritual experiences from many people I talked with. I think these can at least be partially be explained by the amount of prayer and faith that is there, and if only that amount of prayer and faith was displayed elsewhere, I'm pretty sure spiritual miracles would also abound there as well.

I'd say this is the part the Church finds hardest to deal with, as people might confuse the pretty numerous spiritual miracles and fruits of prayer that have occurred there, with the visions being authentic. Two different things in my opinion. Medjugorje is a complex situation for the Church to say the least. I wouldn't like to be the one having to rule on it.

I did find it an excellent place for a spiritual week and private pilgrimage, and I'd love to go back for those reasons more than anything else. From what I've seen, no two peoples experience of Medjugorje is exactly the same. It is hard to explain unless you've been, and I found that in itself surprising.

The content of your post discussing the spiritual aspect of Medjugorje resonates with the experiences of people who I know that have visited Medjugorje.
The stories of spiritual transformation during or following a visit to Medjugorje appear to point to authenticity.

I agree with your point about the Church. Of course we know that when St.Bernadette claimed to have had visitations from Our Lady, the Church authorities were very sceptical. As we know eventually the Church declared Lourdes to be genuine.

Some day I might visit Medjugorje.

La Fenetre

hinault wrote: »

The content of your post discussing the spiritual aspect of Medjugorje resonates with the experiences of people who I know that have visited Medjugorje.
The stories of spiritual transformation during or following a visit to Medjugorje appear to point to authenticity.

I agree with your point about the Church. Of course we know that when St.Bernadette claimed to have had visitations from Our Lady, the Church authorities were very sceptical. As we know eventually the Church declared Lourdes to be genuine.

Some day I might visit Medjugorje.

I'm still quite careful to put down the spiritual experiences that do abound there, to the fruits of prayer and faith. Also the Church is always rightly very skeptical and careful about private visions over the centuries. Every case is different, and they adopt one of three positions, approval, no ruling either way ever, and disapproval. Lourdes was relatively straight forward, Medjugorje is far from straightforward by comparison, and that does not mean anything either way. The Church have either disapproved or made no ruling on far more visions than they have ever approved of. The approved ones are few and far between in comparison to the ones the Church consider as bunkum, or never ruled on.

lazybones32

November 25, 2015


“Dear children! Today I am calling all of you: pray for my intentions. Peace is in danger, therefore, little children, pray and be carriers of peace and hope in this restless world where Satan is attacking and tempting in every way. Little children, be firm in prayer and courageous in faith. I am with you and intercede before my Son Jesus for all of you. Thank you for having responded to my call.”

katydid

lazybones32 wrote: »

November 25, 2015


“Dear children! Today I am calling all of you: pray for my intentions. Peace is in danger, therefore, little children, pray and be carriers of peace and hope in this restless world where Satan is attacking and tempting in every way. Little children, be firm in prayer and courageous in faith. I am with you and intercede before my Son Jesus for all of you. Thank you for having responded to my call.”

Someone's been watching the news...

lazybones32

December 25, 2015

“Dear children! Also today I am carrying my Son Jesus to you and from this embrace I am giving you His peace and a longing for Heaven. I am praying with you for peace and am calling you to be peace. I am blessing all of you with my motherly blessing of peace. Thank you for having responded to my call.”

Leroy42

Who receives the original message and how is it translated?

ABC101

The person who is receiving the vision / meeting with our Lady.

As for translations... I'm not sure.... I believe not all the visionaries have fluent English or are fluent in various other languages etc.

So I would imagine there is somebody reputable who is tasked with translating the message from the local language to various other languages etc.

gctest50

lazybones32 wrote: »

.............
The English language version of the website of the Official Information centre (Mir*) is http://medjugorje.

?????????

Its in English here, self same text :

http://www.medjugorje.com/medjugorje-messages/43-latest-25-message/10241-our-lady-of-medjugorjes-december-25-2015-monthly-message-for-the-world.html

lazybones32 wrote: »

I assume they are downplaying this aspect, as the visionaries do.

Don't seem very trustworthy anyway ? using someones internet under dodgy pretences :

"I do not even have my own internet, rather to rely on the kindness of someone else who is not Christian and not aware that I use it to further my knowledge and heart in the Kingdom of God. If they were aware then I would not be able to “borrow” it—especially because I am Catholic.

http://www.medjugorje.com/core-group-2010.html"

lazybones32

Leroy42 wrote: »

Who receives the original message and how is it translated?

Marija Lunetti receives the message and she writes it down. She communicates this message to the relevant parties for translation and publication. The Information Centre have employed many different translators, so that major languages can receive the message.

lazybones32

gctest50 wrote: »

?????????

Its in English here, self same text :

http://www.medjugorje.com/medjugorje-messages/43-latest-25-message/10241-our-lady-of-medjugorjes-december-25-2015-monthly-message-for-the-world.html





Don't seem very trustworthy anyway ? using someones internet under dodgy pretences :

I supplied the link to the Official Information centre based in Medjugorje. I supplied that link because they have a lot of information and resources available to anyone who wishes to investigate further.

noel farrell

this stuff has been doing the rounds thirty years or so. does anyone in this day and age really believe the good god who made the world and every thing in it, would try to contact us through silly messages every once in a while. through people who have not obeyed their bishop or the pope for that matter . have traveled the world live in huge mansions and made good from what i consider is the biggest farse in the roman catholic church . not one cleric from the new pope down has the guts to come out and say its a lie

lazybones32

@noel: no-one is obliged to accept or believe the purported visitations, apparitions or messages - even after the Church has given its official declaration regarding the event.

The visionaries have not disobeyed any edict given by their Bishop, past or present or the Popes, past or present. The Bishop who considered the events at Medj. to not be of supernatural origin, originally met the visionaries and wrote a letter in support of them, saying he believed that the 6 children were genuine and sincere. It was shortly after Government officials visited him in his apartment for a meeting, that he changed his opinion. Whether this is purely coincidental or not, I can't say.
There is much information on the website regarding these aspects and questions that you have been misinformed about.

And I have seen two of the visionaries houses... they're not mansions.

Leroy42

I do wonder what the purpose of these messages are? They are largely vague messages and coupled with the drip-drip nature of them. If Mary is keen to get a message across to the world why make it so obtuse and so easily ignored.

We are told that the Pope is God's direct link on earth, why not through him? Or a world leader who can actually effect change? God has the power to make these visions happen and is keen to contact us directly but it seems as if He is doing his best to make it as hard as possible for believers to believe and too easy for the doubters to spread doubt.

ABC101

Leroy42 wrote: »

I do wonder what the purpose of these messages are? They are largely vague messages and coupled with the drip-drip nature of them. If Mary is keen to get a message across to the world why make it so obtuse and so easily ignored.

We are told that the Pope is God's direct link on earth, why not through him? Or a world leader who can actually effect change? God has the power to make these visions happen and is keen to contact us directly but it seems as if He is doing his best to make it as hard as possible for believers to believe and too easy for the doubters to spread doubt.

Well...that's the way God seems to pass on messages. One can see the long list of prophets, various people who became converted or energised I.e. St Paul, there was Jesus Christ himself, children of Fatima, Bernadette of Lourdes etc...and relatively recently...a bunch of children in Yugoslavia, now Bosnia Herzegovinia etc.

The children have grown up, gotten married, travelled the world, Ivan, Viska and the others etc. I think Viska was even on the Late Late show a few years back where she was ridiculed and almost abused by some members of the audience, not all of course, but there were a few who were openly hostile.

God does not seem to put a devine object on display so that there can be no doubt in any persons mind that God exists.

God seems to be able to get messages across to the human population...while at the same time giving humans the free choice to reject his message or not.

In relation to the messages themselves, they are mostly words of encouragement, to pray more, to make fasting, personal sacrifices etc, words which encourage people to holiness via prayer and fasting.

The messages are not specific...ie at a certain time, place X will happen.

You don't need to look hard to see that humanity is on the wrong path. Enormous environmental damage is taking place ( climate change), there are still large numbers of poor people/ poverty. Appalling injustice taking place in the Middle East and so on.

cattolico

Leroy42 wrote: »

I do wonder what the purpose of these messages are? They are largely vague messages and coupled with the drip-drip nature of them. If Mary is keen to get a message across to the world why make it so obtuse and so easily ignored.

We are told that the Pope is God's direct link on earth, why not through him? Or a world leader who can actually effect change? God has the power to make these visions happen and is keen to contact us directly but it seems as if He is doing his best to make it as hard as possible for believers to believe and too easy for the doubters to spread doubt.

We are created free. There are numerous messages over the last 2000 years and many have been ignored. God respects our free will, we have to decide to walk towards him or not.

The jury is out on Medjugorje, but its not on St. Faustina or Fatima or Akita.

The eternal realities exist, Heaven, Hell.

lazybones32

Leroy42 wrote: »

I do wonder what the purpose of these messages are?

Conversion. Even for those who know God. All of us can go deeper; move closer to God in this life.

Leroy42 wrote: »

They are largely vague messages and coupled with the drip-drip nature of them.

Not so. Just because I've only started posting the messages, there are over thirty years of messages: daily, weekly, monthly and yearly messages. Our Lady is quite simple in her messages but quite direct.

Leroy42 wrote: »

If Mary is keen to get a message across to the world why make it so obtuse and so easily ignored.

It's up to the individual whether the message is ignored or heeded.

Leroy42 wrote: »

We are told that the Pope is God's direct link on earth, why not through him? Or a world leader who can actually effect change? God has the power to make these visions happen and is keen to contact us directly but it seems as if He is doing his best to make it as hard as possible for believers to believe and too easy for the doubters to spread doubt.

Why did Jesus choose to be born in a cave/stable and have 3 shepherd visit him? Why not announce it to heads of State and the religious authorities or announce it in a way that people will be more inclined to believe?

cattolico wrote: »

The jury is out on Medjugorje, but its not on St. Faustina or Fatima or Akita.

The eternal realities exist, Heaven, Hell.

The jury is not out: the Church is waiting until the phenomena ends before delivering its judgement. The Vatican has been studying the events for over 30 years - they have a good idea of whether it can be considered genuine or not.
Quite interesting that you cite Divine Mercy, Fatima and Akita and fail to see the connection between all 4. Akita is very similar to one of the secrets of Fatima (according to Card. Ratzinger) and Sr. Lucia made some very interesting comments regarding Medjugorge. The connection to D.M. is probably too sensational to post here, seeing as this aspect is downplayed and not emphasised.

noel farrell

op one thing i would like to say i have no need to go to any site ,and am not misinformed, as i have visited the village many times , spoke with the so called seer's ,before the became famous .i was there two months after it all kicked off, and was back too years ago visiting the war camps a few miles out the rd .vast changes in the village in the thirty years , not much out there, my friends to be a christian is love god do good to people around you, not running after signs and wonders , looking at the sun spinning coming home with damaged eyes. worship god and him alone, be his hands and feet god bless

ABC101

noel farrell wrote: »

op one thing i would like to say i have no need to go to any site ,and am not misinformed, as i have visited the village many times , spoke with the so called seer's ,before the became famous .i was there two months after it all kicked off, and was back too years ago visiting the war camps a few miles out the rd .vast changes in the village in the thirty years , not much out there, my friends to be a christian is love god do good to people around you, not running after signs and wonders , looking at the sun spinning coming home with damaged eyes. worship god and him alone, be his hands and feet god bless

Well you can also pray to the Virgin Mary, Jesus Christ and the saints etc

Good point about not running after signs and wonders etc, however the messages I would consider to be important.

While I feel Medjugorge to be a special place with great things going on etc, it is important to remember...that the sacraments are the same all over the world.

It's not the case that a Mass in Medjugorge is better than a Mass being said anywhere else.

lazybones32

January 25, 2016

"Dear children! Also today I am calling all of you to prayer. You cannot live without prayer, because prayer is a chain which brings you closer to God. Therefore, little children, in humility of heart return to God and to His commandments so that with all of your heart you are able to say: as it is in Heaven so may it be on earth. You, little children, are free to in freedom decide for God or against Him. See where Satan wants to pull you into sin and slavery. Therefore, little children, return to my heart so that I can lead you to my Son Jesus who is the Way, the Truth and the Life. Thank you for having responded to my call."


The words '...free to in freedom decide for God...' sound like it could be a translation error but appear in other sources, so I'll go with it.

Leroy42

Seems all a bit trite. Mary talking to these people is a miracle, and all she has to say is 'pray more'.

Not, 'hey the secret to beating the Zika virus is the red plant' or 'try looking further left for Flight MH370'. (obviously I am being purposefully simplistic here to highlight the point)

I mean, come on. She has already broken the 'don't interfere' rule by showing herself directly to this people and this is the best she has to say.

And why would Mary lie? She says that 'You cannot live without prayer', which is totally and evidentially false. Many people do not pray, and many billions pray to the 'wrong' God. Yet they continue to live. Why would Mary say such a clear mistruth?

ABC101

Leroy42 wrote: »

Seems all a bit trite. Mary talking to these people is a miracle, and all she has to say is 'pray more'.

Not, 'hey the secret to beating the Zika virus is the red plant' or 'try looking further left for Flight MH370'. (obviously I am being purposefully simplistic here to highlight the point)

I mean, come on. She has already broken the 'don't interfere' rule by showing herself directly to this people and this is the best she has to say.

And why would Mary lie? She says that 'You cannot live without prayer', which is totally and evidentially false. Many people do not pray, and many billions pray to the 'wrong' God. Yet they continue to live. Why would Mary say such a clear mistruth?

No I would not class our Lady talking to believers as a miracle. It is an apparition, but not a miracle.

Yes living on Earth is hard, from various natural disasters to persecutions, to medical issues such as the virus you mention.

But the Holy Family had a tough time too, there was no accommodation available so Jesus was born in a stable, they had to leave their homeland and flee into Egypt due to Herod. Jesus during his ministry had to avoid certain towns due to hostility etc

You misunderstand the purpose of the monthly message and no, our Lady is not lying. Our Lady is encouraging believers to pray, so that they become closer to God. Our Lady refers to living a fuller life by being in communion with God through prayer.

I myself have certain ailments / medical conditions... but I don't seek to blame somebody else or God for that matter. I just get on with living the best I can under the circumstances.

Unfortunately some people only see natural disasters, illnesses, viruses, bacteria and man made accidents (MH370) as a opportunity to blame God and nothing more.

Leroy42

You don't think that seeing a vision, and hearing from a woman that died over 2000 years ago is a miracle? You believe in heaven yet you think this is just an apparition. Seeing her you could argue, but a monthly message? She is talking directly to people. By saying it is an apparition you are putting in the same category as seeing a ghost, and I doubt very much if you think we should be listening to messages people say they got from their dead uncle.

Of course living is hard, no one is disputing that. One of the reasons we are given is that man has free will and God cannot interfere, but Mary is clearly looking to interfere directly here.

Mary's message clearly says that to live you need to pray, you have added the amendment about fuller life etc. Surely if Mary meant that she would have said it, maybe if people stopped trying to interpret what they say and actually listen things would work out a bit!

I'm not blaming God, am I saying that instead of using this opportunity to help mankind Mary seems to be more worried about getting people to pray, which of course then begs the question of what about all those people who either don't pray or pray to the wrong God. I am willing to accept that mankind has free will and thus must live with the consequences, but Mary seems happy to try to influence this free will to guide us to prayer but not enough to actually help. Just seems like a wasted opportunity.

Imagine if a monthly message actually delivered something meaningful, something people could look and see was right. Imagine what that would do for peoples belief in God? you can of course argue that this in of itself is enough and man continues to ignore the signs put in front if him, but then maybe look at changing the signs. Sending Mary down to speak to only a select few, with a vague message, does not seem to be a good avenue to go down

noel farrell

nothing new here. same silly little messages for years now .

ABC101

Leroy42 wrote: »

You don't think that seeing a vision, and hearing from a woman that died over 2000 years ago is a miracle? You believe in heaven yet you think this is just an apparition. Seeing her you could argue, but a monthly message? She is talking directly to people. By saying it is an apparition you are putting in the same category as seeing a ghost, and I doubt very much if you think we should be listening to messages people say they got from their dead uncle.

Of course living is hard, no one is disputing that. One of the reasons we are given is that man has free will and God cannot interfere, but Mary is clearly looking to interfere directly here.

Mary's message clearly says that to live you need to pray, you have added the amendment about fuller life etc. Surely if Mary meant that she would have said it, maybe if people stopped trying to interpret what they say and actually listen things would work out a bit!

I'm not blaming God, am I saying that instead of using this opportunity to help mankind Mary seems to be more worried about getting people to pray, which of course then begs the question of what about all those people who either don't pray or pray to the wrong God. I am willing to accept that mankind has free will and thus must live with the consequences, but Mary seems happy to try to influence this free will to guide us to prayer but not enough to actually help. Just seems like a wasted opportunity.

Imagine if a monthly message actually delivered something meaningful, something people could look and see was right. Imagine what that would do for peoples belief in God? you can of course argue that this in of itself is enough and man continues to ignore the signs put in front if him, but then maybe look at changing the signs. Sending Mary down to speak to only a select few, with a vague message, does not seem to be a good avenue to go down

Are you Aspergers?

Are you familiar with the term nuance, language containing shades of colour? Diplomats speak in nuanced terms all the time. Why can't diplomats / politician's / Senior company executives speak more directly instead of more cloaked polite diplomatic language within which you have to decipher what they are really saying?

Not everything in life has to be black and white, or is black and white.

WRT to Miraculous.... the definition of miraculous is about the "event", which is so extraordinary or unusual that it can only be attributed to Divine Intervention.

Our Lady appearing to believers is not a miracle. A event such as a terminally ill child becoming fully cured would be a miracle.

It's clear you and I have different definitions of what a miracle actually is. No wonder you are confused... and the wording of your posts contain anger, frustration, bordering on hostility to the concept of Divine beings doing what Divine beings want to do.

WRT to your concern about "interfering". That is the way life goes, weather interferes, when mortgage interest rates go up it causes an interference in my financial situation, I join a gym, this action causes a interference in my physical health / level of fitness. I seek a tax adviser and this action interferes in my savings / pension scheme etc.
I see a doctor, who interferes by advising a reduction in smoking /alcohol. I see a spiritual adviser / priest who advises meditation / prayer which interferes in my TV time.

Life is full of interference, some of which is positive, some of which is negative. God can intervene, whenever he wants, the Bible is full of stories of Divine Intervention, conversion of Saul would be one example. Our Lady is NOT appearing to lots of People. There is only two visionaries who receive a daily message (I think, Ivan and Viska), its not a case our Lady is interfering in the lives of hundreds or thousands of people.

I cannot understand how you regard believers who are communicating with their God as interference in the Human Race?

The Medjugorge messages don't seem to have interfered with your life, given your open hostility to the occurrence of the monthly message.

lazygal

ABC101 wrote: »

Are you Aspergers?

<snip> what is this supposed to mean?

Delirium

ABC101 wrote: »

Are you Aspergers?

MOD NOTE

Please refrain from getting personal when responding, i.e. asking a poster if they have Aspergers.

Keep to the content of the post please.

Thanks for your attention.

ABC101

Delirium wrote: »

MOD NOTE

Please refrain from getting personal when responding, i.e. asking a poster if they have Aspergers.

Keep to the content of the post please.

Thanks for your attention.

Sorry guys, if I could explain.....

I did not mean it as an personal insult.. far from it.

It is just in reading the post, the main thrust appears to be from a person with a deposition towards an asperger tendency, that's all.

If I may say, it was not meant as a slur or personal attack. In fact people with ASD (autistic spectrum disorders) can have a very high levels of intelligence, as well as a alternative perspective of observing things etc.

Delirium

ABC101 wrote: »

Sorry guys, if I could explain.....

I did not mean it as an personal insult.. far from it.

It is just in reading the post, the main thrust appears to be from a person with a deposition towards an asperger tendency, that's all.

If I may say, it was not meant as a slur or personal attack. In fact people with ASD (autistic spectrum disorders) can have a very high levels of intelligence, as well as a alternative perspective of observing things etc.

I didn't read it as an insult, rather that it was a personal question that has no relevance to the thread.

So we'll just park the speculation about other poster(s) please.

faceman

I did some research into Marian apparitions as part of a film project I worked on that had religious elements so thought I would share some things that might be of interest.

Apparitions arent just a Catholic thing btw, other religions have their own.

The Catholic church studies apparitions closely but is very reluctant to deem an apparition as authentic. They do look into every claim that is brought to the attention by the local bishop.

What I found even more interesting was some of the reasons they reject apparitions is not always because its a fake. The church recognises that apparitions can come from demonic origins. i.e. the apparition may be of a holy figure but is demonic in origin. They dont really publicise this though as the Devil is somewhat of a taboo in the church.

As a point of interest, the church recognises that there have been more demonic apparitions in Lourdes than there have been Marian apparitions.

Someone mentioned Akita earlier. I can't see the Church ever recognising that one as it doesn't follow the same themes of other approved apparitions.

On a related note, even Saints arent always taken at their word. Padre Pio (as well as saints from earlier centuries) was a proponent of the "3 Days of Darkness", which reads like something from a horror movie. The vatican do not endorse it.

lazybones32

Leroy42 wrote: »

Seems all a bit trite. Mary talking to these people is a miracle, and all she has to say is 'pray more'.

Not, 'hey the secret to beating the Zika virus is the red plant' or 'try looking further left for Flight MH370'. (obviously I am being purposefully simplistic here to highlight the point)

I mean, come on. She has already broken the 'don't interfere' rule by showing herself directly to this people and this is the best she has to say.

And why would Mary lie? She says that 'You cannot live without prayer', which is totally and evidentially false. Many people do not pray, and many billions pray to the 'wrong' God. Yet they continue to live. Why would Mary say such a clear mistruth?

She has said quite a lot and it isn't confined to "pray more" but she is persistently asking people to increase the quality and quantity of their prayers.
Are you seeking novelty, intrigue and entertainment from her messages? You won't find it on this thread. There is an aspect of the messages that will pique your curiosity, if that's what you seek, but I'm just making the messages available on R+S.

Where did this "don't interfere rule" come from? God has a habit of interfering in humanity's affairs, thankfully, but He forces no-one. The visionaries are free to turn their back on the apparitions, prayer and God if they choose.

You cannot live without prayer, because prayer is a chain which brings you closer to God (the same God who created life and sustains it). As Mary said, which I wrote in the first post of the thread, "He is the fullness of life, and to enjoy this fullness and peace, you must return to God". The primary mode of communication between God and the soul is prayer. Try and understand what someone is saying before calling them a liar.

lazybones32

February 25, 2016.

"Dear children! In this time of grace, I am calling all of you to conversion. Little children, you love little and pray even less. You are lost and do not know what your goal is. Take the cross, look at Jesus and follow Him. He gives Himself to you to the death on the cross, because He loves you. Little children, I am calling you: return to prayer with the heart so as to find hope and the meaning of your existence, in prayer. I am with you and am praying for you. Thank you for having responded to my call."

noel farrell

Nothing new here .surely she can change it a little .now that it is run by the Franciscans you would imagine the would put more thought into the message .I am a little caught for time at the minute as I would like to pick your brain on a few things over there

solodeogloria

Good evening,

Can I ask how this message from Mary is heard?

How can people be certain that this is Mary speaking?

What is the official Roman Catholic position in respect to these messages?

Hopeful to learn more.

Much thanks in our Lord Jesus Christ,
solodeogloria

lazybones32

Will reply tomorrow evening when I have more time.


This message is relayed via interior locution. Other messages are delivered differently.
The woman relaying the messages, for nearly 35 years to 6 different people, has identified herself as Mary, the mother of Jesus. People can discern whether the messages contradict Scripture or Church teaching and also to observe the 'fruits' of the messages. Since no-one outside of the seers actually sees, hears or receives messages from Mary, we are free to accept or reject that it is Mary communicating or that anything is happening.
The RCC will wait until the phenomena ceases before issuing a definitive official judgement regarding its authenticity. Usually, the Bishop of the Diocese forms a Conference to investigate any such apparition but I think the Vatican itself will be issuing direct judgement in this case.

There is a lot more information available in the link posted in the OP.

Adds: The Diocese forms a Commission, not a conference.

Cola T

lazybones32 wrote: »

February 25, 2016.

"Dear children! In this time of grace, I am calling all of you to conversion. Little children, you love little and pray even less. You are lost and do not know what your goal is. Take the cross, look at Jesus and follow Him. He gives Himself to you to the death on the cross, because He loves you. Little children, I am calling you: return to prayer with the heart so as to find hope and the meaning of your existence, in prayer. I am with you and am praying for you. Thank you for having responded to my call."

When you actually think about it isn't a call to prayer odd. Well I mean the action of praying is odd. An all powerful diety requiring the weak mortals to daily declare their love and obedience ? Just seems odd

Leroy42

Cola T wrote: »

When you actually think about it isn't a call to prayer odd. Well I mean the action of praying is odd. An all powerful diety requiring the weak mortals to daily declare their love and obedience ? Just seems odd

You are looking at it from the wrong perspective.

God does not 'require' you to pray to him, he is not sitting there waiting. It is the action of taking the time to contemplate your relationship with him, your decisions and the way that you approach your life. In essence, God is not important in the terms of prayer, except for giving a common point to people on which to focus on. It could just as easily be a cloud, of your phone or whatever.

solodeogloria

Good morning all,

I just saw your update lazybones32. Can you explain to me what "interior locution" is?

I'm always bemused about the concept of Marian apparitions or hearing her speak. Why does it seem to be always Mary and not Jesus? If these messages can't contradict Scripture what is their purpose? I agree with other posters that these messages are very vague but I agree that's my scepticism at play.

Edit: basically posts like this one make me confused about how revelation works in Catholicism. This is why I set up this thread yesterday.

Much thanks in the Lord Jesus Christ,
solodeogloria

lazybones32

solodeogloria wrote: »

Can you explain to me what "interior locution" is?

I can't explain it in-depth but I'd guess you have some experience of it but maybe not by that name.
This particular message is received internally, without seeing the Virgin or hearing her voice issuing the words. Our Lady transmits the message to Marija without visiting her.

solodeogloria wrote: »

Why does it seem to be always Mary and not Jesus?

Jesus has in the past visited people in a particular way and I'm sure He still does. The last major revelation would have been the Divine Mercy during WWII but there has also been one in the USA in the 90's which has been declared free from error.

solodeogloria wrote: »

If these messages can't contradict Scripture what is their purpose?

I didn't say they can't contradict scripture - I said that's one criteria used to test the source. A Heaven-sent message won't contradict scripture.
The purpose of the messages is to call people to conversion; to pray; to fast; to read scripture daily and to place Jesus in the Eucharist at the centre of your life. There are other reasons too, I'm sure, but I'm not privy to them.

solodeogloria wrote: »

I agree with other posters that these messages are very vague but I agree that's my scepticism at play.

I've seen those 'accusations' too but disagree. The messages have been flowing for nearly 35 years and there are all manner of topics addressed in them. I've only begun posting the messages but I've linked a source which has a comprehensive collection.

Leroy42

lazybones32 wrote: »

I can't explain it in-depth but I'd guess you have some experience of it but maybe not by that name.
This particular message is received internally, without seeing the Virgin or hearing her voice issuing the words. Our Lady transmits the message to Maria without visiting her.

I'm confused. So if this is interior locution, then it isn't even a visitation by Mary but simply a message in the persons mind, which is claimed to come from Mary! But apart from taking Maria's word for it we have no evidence at all that 1) there is an message at all, and 2) if there is a message where it orignates from.

Again this calls into question the apparent vagueness of the messages. They contain nothing that can be future checked (this will happen on such a date, 'this' being something that is not expected) and since you are claiming that they can not disagree with scripture, its not really difficult to come up with something that agrees with scripture but contains little actually verifiable pronocements.

I guess my underlining question is why this is deemed by christians as believable. How is this any different from one of the many preachers that claim they have been visited by Jesus (mostly in the US) and that people should follow them

NIMAN

As someone who would describe themselves as agnostic, I would take these 'messages' with a big pinch of salt.

So she talks to 6 people in their minds? There are so many ways that this could be taken as nonsense.

I always wonder why Mary would appear to people in this form? Surely if she would like us all to pray more, to connect more with God etc, then actually appearing in physical form in front of the world's media rather than 6 individuals would be the best way to get her message across? No?

I'm sorry, but until then, I'm going to have to stay in the camp that believes these people aren't receiving any messages at all.

keano_afc

Signs and wonders. Its nonsense.

lazybones32

Leroy42 wrote: »

I'm confused. So if this is interior locution, then it isn't even a visitation by Mary but simply a message in the persons mind, which is claimed to come from Mary! But apart from taking Maria's word for it we have no evidence at all that 1) there is an message at all, and 2) if there is a message where it orignates from.

Again this calls into question the apparent vagueness of the messages. They contain nothing that can be future checked (this will happen on such a date, 'this' being something that is not expected) and since you are claiming that they can not disagree with scripture, its not really difficult to come up with something that agrees with scripture but contains little actually verifiable pronocements.

I guess my underlining question is why this is deemed by christians as believable. How is this any different from one of the many preachers that claim they have been visited by Jesus (mostly in the US) and that people should follow them

Yes and no. Mary does not appear to Marija (and 2 others) on a daily basis anymore but does visit them once a year. I did write that "this particular message...", meaning the message relayed on the 25th is an internal locution. For the first few years, all messages to all seers were given via apparition/vision. Any message given by the other 3 will be from them seeing and hearing Mary. In Marija's own words, "I hear it in my heart". It is not a mental message or the projection of words to her mind but something that is either impressed on her or rises up from within...I can't say exactly how it's delivered.

Ah, so you want a prediction; a sign from Heaven that this is genuine?... and then you will believe? There have been many signs already given and I've left some breadcrumbs but the purpose of this thread isn't to provide curiosity or amusement - it is to make available the messages of Medjugorje.

I've already addressed the 'vague' issue you keep citing, so I don't need to repeat myself. I think you misunderstood what I've written about the messages not being able to contradict scripture but you can re-read if you want.

lazybones32

NIMAN wrote: »

As someone who would describe themselves as agnostic, I would take these 'messages' with a big pinch of salt.

So she talks to 6 people in their minds? There are so many ways that this could be taken as nonsense.

I always wonder why Mary would appear to people in this form? Surely if she would like us all to pray more, to connect more with God etc, then actually appearing in physical form in front of the world's media rather than 6 individuals would be the best way to get her message across? No?

I'm sorry, but until then, I'm going to have to stay in the camp that believes these people aren't receiving any messages at all.

No, Mary doesn't talk to 6 people in their minds. She began appearing to 6 children in 1981. 2 of those children who saw her on the first day never saw her again, but 2 other children who weren't there on the first day began seeing her. So, that makes 8 children who claim to have physically seen (in 3 dimensions) and audibly heard a woman who later identified herself by saying "I am the Blessed Virgin Mary."
All 6 seers have undergone an exhaustive battery of tests and while these tests don't prove what exactly is happening, they have conclusively shown that the children were not dysfunctional and were mentally-sound.

keano_afc

Sorry, but as far as I'm concerned these events are demonic. Mary is no more capable of "appearing" to people than your dead aunt or uncle. I believe its Satan's way of taking our focus off God by worshipping false deities.