Returning from drink driving query

12gauge dave

Hi I'm returning from 6month driving ban and I had 8 years no claims bonus with liberty right up to the start date of my ban.
I rang them a few days ago they said they can't quote me because of my driving conviction .

It was a 6month fixed penalty notice I received.

I am wondering do liberty have to give me a quote should I ask to speak to a manager on the phone?

Any advice appreciated my best quote so far is 2125euro with power insurance I've a few more to try buy 90% won't quote

Vicxas

Did you insurance lapse? If you're still insured I think they are obliged to give you a quote.

However with your conviction they may have a loophole that can absolve them from quoting you.

12gauge dave

Well I cancelled my insurance the day after my ban started and told them about my ban.

To Elland Back

Liberty, as your last insurer, are obliged to quote you. You need to speak to a supervisor there and insist. Horrible insurer to deal with

Jesus.

If you don't mind me asking Dave, did you have much drink taken when you were pulled?

vandriver

Jesus. wrote: »

If you don't mind me asking Dave, did you have much drink taken when you were pulled?

Apart from being nosey,how is this relevant?

CiniO

Jesus. wrote: »

If you don't mind me asking Dave, did you have much drink taken when you were pulled?

Only drink driving offence which results in fixed penalty of €400 and 6 months ban is this:

Exceeding 80mg but not exceeding 100mg of alcohol per 100ml of blood

If it was lower (between 50mg and 80mg of alcohol per 100ml of blood) then it would be only €200 fine and 3 penalty points. No ban.

Jesus.

vandriver wrote: »

Apart from being nosey,how is this relevant?

Its not. I'm being nosey

vandriver

Jesus. wrote: »

Its not. I'm being nosey

I like your honesty,sir

Jesus.

So Cinio there's 3 levels? Below 80, between 80 & 100 and over 100? What do you receive if you're over 100? A two year ban?

CiniO

Jesus. wrote: »

So Cinio there's 3 levels? Below 80, between 80 & 100 and over 100? What do you receive if you're over 100? A two year ban?

All details here:
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/motoring_1/driving_offences/drink_driving_offences_in_ireland.html

In short.
If you are a driver who holds full driving licence for at least 2 years, and is not driving a truck or bus or taxi at the moment, following applies:
up to 50mg - sober.
50mg - 80mg - €200 fine and 3 points.
80mg - 100mg - €400 fine and 6 months ban.
over 100mg - mandatory court appearance which will result in minimum 2 years ban for first offence or minimum 4 years for second offence.

Jesus.

Cheers Cinio. Sounds like the OP probably had about 3 pints on board at a guess

CiniO

Jesus. wrote: »

Cheers Cinio. Sounds like the OP probably had about 3 pints on board at a guess

That's a very rough guess.
If OP is 7' and 25 stone, he could have had 7 pints to achieve that level.
If he is 5' and 7 stone, he could be at that after 1 pint if unlucky.

ComfortKid

CiniO wrote:

In short. If you are a driver who holds full driving licence for at least 2 years, and is not driving a truck or bus or taxi at the moment, following applies: up to 50mg - sober. 50mg - 80mg - €200 fine and 3 points. 80mg - 100mg - €400 fine and 6 months ban. over 100mg - mandatory court appearance which will result in minimum 2 years ban for first offence or minimum 4 years for second offence.

Are these mandatory? I'm in court soon, My sample was 60mg.
Does this mean I might get less than 2 year ban? I thought it was mandatory 2 year ban no matter how much you are over the limit

CiniO

ComfortKid wrote: »

Are these mandatory? I'm in court soon, My sample was 60mg.
Does this mean I might get less than 2 year ban? I thought it was mandatory 2 year ban no matter how much you are over the limit

That's strange.
When was the offence commited?

If you had 60mg alcohol per 100ml of blood, then it should be a fixed penalty - not court appearance.

Either you mismatched units, or it was your second offence, or offence was commited before new regualtions came in force which was probably about 5 years ago.

Liam McPoyle

Jesus. wrote: »

Cheers Cinio. Sounds like the OP probably had about 3 pints on board at a guess

Or two glass's of water if you are on the job ya rascal ya!

ComfortKid

CiniO wrote:

That's strange. When was the offence commited?

CiniO wrote:

If you had 60mg alcohol per 100ml of blood, then it should be a fixed penalty - not court appearance.

CiniO wrote:

Either you mismatched units, or it was your second offence, or offence was commited before new regualtions came in force which was probably about 5 years ago.

Yes 60mg per 100ml

Received charge sheet, with court date on the night of arrest.

Less than 6 months ago.

CiniO

ComfortKid wrote: »

Yes 60mg per 100ml

Per 100ml of blood or per 100ml of breath?

Jesus.

CiniO wrote: »

That's a very rough guess.
If OP is 7' and 25 stone, he could have had 7 pints to achieve that level.
If he is 5' and 7 stone, he could be at that after 1 pint if unlucky.

It is indeed an extremely rough guess. But now the driver says he was just over the 50mg so he probably had less

12gauge dave

Jesus. wrote: »

If you don't mind me asking Dave, did you have much drink taken when you were pulled?

8 cans of cider over a 4hour period.
I was 117 for every 100ml of urine or what ever it was.

Breathalyser was broken in station so urine had to be taken

*Kol*

12gauge dave wrote: »

8 cans of cider over a 4hour period.
I was 117 for every 100ml of urine or what ever it was.

Breathalyser was broken in station so urine had to be taken

Are you 7 foot tall and 25 stone? Interesting to see if Cinio is correct!!

12gauge dave

*Kol* wrote: »

Are you 7 foot tall and 25 stone? Interesting to see if Cinio is correct!!

Not quite 6" 1 and 17.5 stone. From my last drink to time of urine test would be an hour and 15 I'd guess.

ComfortKid

I was 60mg per 100 of breath.

Had 5 pints and was breathalysed 2.5 hours after last sup

neddynasty

ComfortKid wrote: »

I was 60mg per 100 of breath.

Had 5 pints and was breathalysed 2.5 hours after last sup

Hopefully you'll get the full 2 year ban.

Second Toughest in_the Freshers

12gauge dave wrote: »

8 cans of cider over a 4hour period.
I was 117 for every 100ml of urine or what ever it was.

Breathalyser was broken in station so urine had to be taken

Thats just taking the piss...

Jesus.

12gauge dave wrote: »

8 cans of cider over a 4hour period. I was 117 for every 100ml of urine or what ever it was.Breathalyser was broken in station so urine had to be taken

That makes Cinio's calculations well off the mark. Unless you're the Jolly Green Giant?

Jesus.

12gauge dave wrote: »

Not quite 6" 1 and 17.5 stone. From my last drink to time of urine test would be an hour and 15 I'd guess.

So from the time you started drinking to the time the test was taken, about 5 hours had lapsed. The body gets rid of roughly 1 pint every two hours so after 5 hours your body had processed 2 and a half pints. You drank around 7 pints (8 cans) so you still had about four and a half pints in your system. You weren't all that much over the limit considering there was that much still in ye but you're a big lad so that might explain that.

Still doesn't add up to the penalty you got going by Cinio's rules

Jesus.

neddynasty wrote: »

Hopefully you'll get the full 2 year ban.

If Cinio is correct then he's not committed the offence for that penalty. He'll get a £140 fine and 3 points:

CiniO wrote: »

Only drink driving offence which results in fixed penalty of €400 and 6 months ban is this: "Exceeding 80mg but not exceeding 100mg of alcohol per 100ml of blood". If it was lower (between 50mg and 80mg of alcohol per 100ml of blood) then it would be only €200 fine and 3 penalty points. No ban.

CiniO

Jesus. wrote: »

That makes Cinio's calculations well off the mark. Unless you're the Jolly Green Giant?

Maybe he is a robocop or something.

Have a look at this:

ComfortKid wrote: »

I was 60mg per 100 of breath.

Had 5 pints and was breathalysed 2.5 hours after last sup

60 μg alcohol per 100ml of breath equals to 137 mg alcohol per 100ml blood.

No wonder why his case went straight to court.

But notice as well, that it's probably closer to my esitmation.
It's reasonable to assume average man will have 137mg alcohol in the blood after drinking 5 pints.

ComfortKid

CiniO wrote:

But notice as well, that it's probably closer to my esitmation. It's reasonable to assume average man will have 137mg alcohol in the blood after drinking 5 pints.

But it wasn't until 2.5 hours after the pints untill I drove. I didn't think it would still be that high. I (and the gaurda) thought I would actually pass the test.

CiniO

ComfortKid wrote: »

But it wasn't until 2.5 hours after the pints untill I drove. I didn't think it would still be that high. I (and the gaurda) thought I would actually pass the test.

After 5 pints?
Alcohol concentration in blood (and breath) is probably the highest about 1 to 1.5 hours after you finish drinking.
So 2.5 hours after, it just started falling down.

You were at nearly 3 times the legal limit.
If you had 2 pints, you'd have a chance of being under the limit.


How much do you weight? I guess not that much - probably 10 - 12 stone.

Jesus.

CiniO wrote: »

60 μg alcohol per 100ml of breath equals to 137 mg alcohol per 100ml blood.

AH Cinio you've lost me now. You're jumping between mg of breath and mg of blood. You have me all over the place. Stick to one measurement Cinio FFS!

Jesus.

ComfortKid wrote: »

But it wasn't until 2.5 hours after the pints untill I drove. I didn't think it would still be that high. I (and the gaurda) thought I would actually pass the test.

How long did it take you to drink the 5 pints? In other words, aswell as the 2.5 hours after you stopped, how long since you drank your first drop? Because obviously the body begins processing it when you start drinking not when you stop.

CiniO

CiniO wrote: »

After 5 pints?
Alcohol concentration in blood (and breath) is probably the highest about 1 to 1.5 hours after you finish drinking.
So 2.5 hours after, it just started falling down.

You were at nearly 3 times the legal limit.
If you had 2 pints, you'd have a chance of being under the limit.


How much do you weight? I guess not that much - probably 10 - 12 stone.

The alcohol start being processed immediately also though at the rate of about 1 unit per hour. If he was lets say 2 hours drinking the 5 pints then a pint or a little more were already processed and then after another 2.5 hours a pint and a half was processed. So that's 2.5 pints out of 5 pints. The limit depends but is probably 1.5 pints for an average man so that would roughly leave him just over the limit you would think rather than 3 times the limit.

CiniO

Kyle Fancy Bullfighter wrote: »

The alcohol start being processed immediately also though at the rate of about 1 unit per hour.

Well that's fairly individual thing.
Might be 1 unit per hour for some, and only 0.7 unit per hour for other, yet 1.3 unit per hour for someone else.
Every one is bit different.

If he was lets say 2 hours drinking the 5 pints then a pint or a little more were already processed and then after another 2.5 hours a pint and a half was processed. So that's 2.5 pints out of 5 pints.

But you are forgetting that there is a delay as well.
After you drink a pint, it takes a while until all alcohol is taken to your bloodstream. Also processing alcohol by liver might start with bit of delay.

The limit depends but is probably 1.5 pints for an average man so that would roughly leave him just over the limit you would think rather than 3 times the limit.

As I said, weight and height could affect it greatly.

Someone tiny might be well over the limit after drinking 1 pint, while someone high and big and fat might drink 4 pints, and still be below.

dunnydundun

Hi,

I have 3 penalty points and got a fine for drink driving at the 50mg - 80mg level. I am 24 and have had a license for 2 years.

I told my dad I got the 3 points but didn't tell him it was for drink driving. He has renewed me as a named driver since I got the points and it seems to have gone through without him finding out. Does anyone know if it matters why you got penalty points and do I need to inform my dads insurer. I just want to make sure that I am still covered.

I also really don't want to tell me dad if at all possible.

Any help would be really appreciated.

Thanks

endacl

dunnydundun wrote: »

Hi,

I have 3 penalty points and got a fine for drink driving at the 50mg - 80mg level. I am 24 and have had a license for 2 years.

I told my dad I got the 3 points but didn't tell him it was for drink driving. He has renewed me as a named driver since I got the points and it seems to have gone through without him finding out. Does anyone know if it matters why you got penalty points and do I need to inform my dads insurer. I just want to make sure that I am still covered.

I also really don't want to tell me dad if at all possible.

Any help would be really appreciated.

Thanks

You're 24? A grownup? If you want to remain on his insurance, I suggest you tell him and deal with the consequences. Like a grownup. Or get your own policy that you can be as private as you like about.

dunnydundun

endacl wrote: »

You're 24? A grownup? If you want to remain on his insurance, I suggest you tell him and deal with the consequences. Like a grownup. Or get your own policy that you can be as private as you like about.

The reason I'm on his insurance is because it's cheaper than me getting insurance on my own as a 1st timer. We also share the car so it makes sense that I'm named on his. No need to be rude, I have my own reasons for not telling him. I was only asking a question.

All I really want to know is, does the reason for penalty points matter for insurance?

Any helpful answers please.

endacl

Fronting, too...?

dunnydundun

endacl wrote: »

Fronting, too...?

No I pay him the extra it is to include me on his policy if you must know. Don't know why you have to be so sour towards me.

I was only trying to find out some information to avoid a conversation that I would rather not have with my dad. If it comes to it, I will tell him. But I have my own reasons for not wanting him to know.

So please kindly, stop the sourness. I'm only asking a question about penalty points.

thebiglad

dunnydundun wrote: »

Hi,

I have 3 penalty points and got a fine for drink driving at the 50mg - 80mg level. I am 24 and have had a license for 2 years.

I told my dad I got the 3 points but didn't tell him it was for drink driving. He has renewed me as a named driver since I got the points and it seems to have gone through without him finding out. Does anyone know if it matters why you got penalty points and do I need to inform my dads insurer. I just want to make sure that I am still covered.

I also really don't want to tell me dad if at all possible.

Any help would be really appreciated.

Thanks

If it is during the policy term then no need to tell them, when the policy is renewed you absolutely must tell them. if you do not or you take out a policy without disclosing the points and conviction you will be in difficulty.

If you are involved in an accident and the insurers check your licence, finding out that you have undeclared convictions then they will void your policy

What does that mean to you?

If you are comprehensively insured, your own car is not covered for anything - repairs, towing, storage etc (anything)

As it relates to the damage you did to whomever or whatever else was involved in the accident they will pay that as they must do under the Road Traffic Act but they will pursue you to recover the full costs from you.

Finally having been through all that, if you want to insure another car you will now not only declare the points and conviction but that you had a policy voided by another insurer - you will have difficulty to find an insurer and your premium when you do will be significant!

If you already have put a policy in place and not declared you are in a tough position to now declare it. Consider cancelling that policy (not sure what premium they will retain - look at conditions) and start another policy with honest information - maybe use a broker as they will understand the market.

jimgoose

dunnydundun wrote: »

Hi,

I have 3 penalty points...

You are required to disclose this sort of thing. These days, insurance companies have access to the RSA's driver records and thus will know why various penalty points were applied anyway. If I were you, I'd come clean about it and have done with it.

Stheno

Did your father tell them you had the points when he renewed?

dunnydundun

Yes, okay looks like I am going to have to come clean and tell him. Thanks for this feedback.

Does anyone know if any insurer will insure me with 3 penalty points for drink driving? And how much of a premium will there be for it?

At this stage, how I'm looking at it is, I might as well be banned if I can't even get insured with these points. At the time the garda made me think it was just the same as getting points for speeding because it was at such a low level of alcohol. But I think I'm realising now this is not the case

jimgoose

dunnydundun wrote: »

Yes, okay looks like I am going to have to come clean and tell him. Thanks for this feedback.

Does anyone know if any insurer will insure me with 3 penalty points for drink driving? And how much of a premium will there be for it?

At this stage, how I'm looking at it is, I might as well be banned if I can't even get insured with these points. At the time the garda made me think it was just the same as getting points for speeding because it was at such a low level of alcohol. But I think I'm realising now this is not the case

Hard to say. Speeding is one thing, but insurance companies are inclined to take a dim view of booze in any quantity.

Henry Ford III

dunnydundun wrote: »

Yes, okay looks like I am going to have to come clean and tell him. Thanks for this feedback.

Does anyone know if any insurer will insure me with 3 penalty points for drink driving? And how much of a premium will there be for it?

At this stage, how I'm looking at it is, I might as well be banned if I can't even get insured with these points. At the time the garda made me think it was just the same as getting points for speeding because it was at such a low level of alcohol. But I think I'm realising now this is not the case

The only way to find out is to come clean and enquire from your insurer.

dunnydundun

Henry Ford III wrote: »

The only way to find out is to come clean and enquire from your insurer.

Yes, think ive realised its the only way now Thanks everyone for your replies

Jesus.

dunnydundun wrote: »

Don't know why you have to be so sour towards me.

Its a requisite for the HHB you know

Jesus.

jimgoose wrote: »

You are required to disclose this sort of thing. These days, insurance companies have access to the RSA's driver records and thus will know why various penalty points were applied anyway. If I were you, I'd come clean about it and have done with it.

The insurers ask how many points you have. Do they ask you if you were 'convicted' of speeding even though you never went to court?

dunnydundun

Jesus. wrote: »

The insurers ask how many points you have. Do they ask you if you were 'convicted' of speeding even though you never went to court?

As far as I know they only ask how many points and not reasons for the points. That's why I thought it was ok but then I was having doubts.

To Elland Back

If your father is the policyholder, he takes responsibility for any non-disclosure by authorised drivers under the policy. If this comes out, it will be your father facing the consequences, such as having the policy cancelled. If he has another car insured for himself, it will affect that too. I'd resolve it ASAP if I was you