Received penalty notice from Garda. . But is this fair?

Alex Meier

On the way to work this morning I approached my place of employment (a school . . I'm a teacher).

In lane in traffic I decided to move into a bus lane approx ten yards to take a left turn onto the school campus.

I was pulled over by two Garda in an unmarked paddy wagon [in the bus lane].

As one of the Gardai approached i rolled down the window to be greeted with "Licence".

I pointed at the entrance just yards away that I was about to enter. .

"Doesn't matter". . was the response.

So I will receive a fixed penalty notice

Was I expecting some sort of leeway?. . . Er. . Yeah - I was just at the point I was about to turn left in.

tayto lover

Challenge it in court. I'd say you'll win.
What did the garda say to you about penalty points though? Why did he not accept your excuse?
PS.
I think the garda are entitled to drive in the bus lane so there's no double standards there.

xabi

Lousy and unfair, but thems the rules.

nuckeythompson

You won't win I'm court. You are guilty of an offence. You broke the rules so best pay up

nuckeythompson

tayto lover wrote:

Challenge it in court. I'd say you'll win. What did the garda say to you about penalty points though? Why did he not accept your excuse? PS. I think the garda are entitled to drive in the bus lane so there's no double standards there.

Ridiculous advice, double standards? The only reason you would challenge something like this is if you were close to the points threshold. Rarely worth the risk as your solicitor will cost more than the fixed penalty.

sogood

As a coach driver, I've seen this on numerous occasions, but usually where someone is taking the p**s. Driving in a bus lane for ages, with the left hand indicator on.........

I think that you were treated harshly though, and strictly speaking, you shouldn't take a left hand turn from the outside lane, as you would have had to do. Instead, you did the right and sensible thing and moved in to the inside (bus) lane, getting in position to turn.

I think the guard may have overreacted, and may think twice about taking it any further.

Alex Meier

Alex Meier wrote: »

On the way to work this morning I approached my place of employment (a school . . I'm a teacher).

In lane in traffic I decided to move into a bus lane approx ten yards to take a left turn onto the school campus.

I was pulled over by two Garda in an unmarked paddy wagon [in the bus lane].

As one of the Gardai approached i rolled down the window to be greeted with "Licence".

I pointed at the entrance just yards away that I was about to enter. .

"Doesn't matter". . was the response.

So I will receive a fixed penalty notice

Was I expecting some sort of leeway?. . . Er. . Yeah - I was just at the point I was about to turn left in.

You were in a bus lane without the necessary licence.

tayto lover

nuckeythompson wrote: »

Ridiculous advice, double standards? The only reason you would challenge something like this is if you were close to the points threshold. Rarely worth the risk as your solicitor will cost more than the fixed penalty.

I said it was NOT double standards. Try reading the post before making stupid observations.
Plus if he was turning left he should not do so from the right-hand lane so he might have a good case.

Elottois

This happened to me during the Summer. I was a couple of metres shy of the turn and a Garda stepped out and stopped me plus others. I received a fine of I think €60, but no penalty points luckily.

At the time the Garda said "Your fine will be in the post"

Alex Meier

Deleted User wrote: »

You were in a bus lane without the necessary licence.

You have to enter the bus lane to access the school entrance.

I usually do so shortly before I arrive at the entrance. . . Mainly to indicate well in advance to the many cyclists who use the road and also not to block the path of buses leaving a nearby bus stop [which ironically the Garda this morning had me blocking]

duffman3833

sounds like a bit of common sense gone out the window or the guard just having a bad day

Alex Meier

At the end of it all it concluded with the Garda stating . . "Have you anything to say"?

"I've a class waiting for me" was my response.

"Good Luck" then came the Garda. . . .

I won't repeat what I stated as the window rolled up.

nuckeythompson

tayto lover wrote:

I said it was NOT double standards. Try reading the post before making stupid observations. Plus if he was turning left he should not do so from the right-hand lane so he might have a good case.

I can read, and yes I did read your post.

sillysmiles

We have to do this at the entrance into my work place, however, just before the entrance there is a hashed line into the bus lane, so that is where you are allowed enter the bus lane.

Alex Meier

nuckeythompson wrote: »

I can read, and yes I did read your post.

I've seen the Gardai in court before.

They're not impressive.

They come across as illiterate quite frankly when dealing with judges.

xabi

What school is it, can you link a google map of the entrance?

Alex Meier

Alex Meier wrote: »

I've seen the Gardai in court before.

They're not impressive.

They come across as illiterate quite frankly when dealing with judges.

If your students used this attitude with you, would you let them away with it? The fact remains that you broke the law.

Alex Meier

Deleted User wrote: »

If your students used this attitude with you, would you let them away with it? The fact remains that you broke the law.

I have no problem stating that I have little respect for members of AGS.

Alex Meier

xabi wrote: »

What school is it, can you link a google map of the entrance?

The distance is 50 m from the school entrance to where the Garda pulled me over

Marcusm

Alex Meier wrote: »

The distance is 50 m from the school entrance to where the Garda pulled me over

In the original post you mention 10 yards which would make me feel you were hard done by. 50m before the entrance is, perhaps a little jobsworth given how IME dublin's bus lanes are under occupied, probably taking the p*ss on your part. Generally bus lanes shadow out 3 car lengths, perhaps 10 metres, before a junction or entrance.

Uncle Ben

Alex Meier wrote: »

I have no problem stating that I have little respect for members of AGS.

In your op you stated that you would've liked some sort of leeway.
Would AGS have sensed your lack of respect when you rolled down the fuinneog? Hence the fine.

Alex Meier

Uncle Ben wrote: »

In your op you stated that you would've liked some sort of leeway.
Would AGS have sensed your lack of respect when you rolled down the fuinneog? Hence the fine.

No. . I'm not stupid.

Nothing put politeness from me.

I'll keep the contempt to myself

daRobot

Don't think it's a penalty points offence, just a fine.

If you can be arsed going to court over a tiny amount like that, more power to you.

Uncle Ben

Alex Meier wrote: »

No. . I'm not stupid.

Nothing put politeness from me.

I'll keep the contempt to myself

😂

Uncle Ben

daRobot wrote: »

Don't think it's a penalty points offence, just a fine.

If you can be arsed going to court over a tiny amount like that, more power to you.

He's a teacher. Plenty of time off.

Alex Meier

Marcusm wrote: »

In the original post you mention 10 yards which would make me feel you were hard done by. 50m before the entrance is, perhaps a little jobsworth given how IME dublin's bus lanes are under occupied, probably taking the p*ss on your part. Generally bus lanes shadow out 3 car lengths, perhaps 10 metres, before a junction or entrance.

50 m is the point at which you break to make a turn. . . It's not a vast distance in motoring

Marcusm

Alex Meier wrote: »

50 m is the point at which you break to make a turn. . . It's not a vast distance in motoring

Maybe I'm just used to entering 10-20 bus lanes a day; I'd be shocked if any of them faded out at 50m before the turn. In the circumstances, as I mentioned, it's perhaps a little jobsworthy but a fair cop!

Victor

Alex Meier wrote: »

50 m is the point at which you break to make a turn. . . It's not a vast distance in motoring

But sufficiently long in duration for the gardaí to come along and catch the OP.

Chris_Heilong

Since when is driving in a bus lane a pointable offence, it used to just be a fine.

tayto lover

Victor wrote: »

But sufficiently long in duration for the gardaí to come along and catch the OP.

Was it 50M or 10M?

TheChizler

Presumably this happened during the hours of operation of the bus lane? And driving in a bus lane during the hours of operation will turn out to be what the fine is for.

slimjimmc

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Since when is driving in a bus lane a pointable offence, it used to just be a fine.

Correct, it's still just a Fixed Penalty Charge.

carzony

I'd just pay the fne to be honest. Is it really worth the hassle of going to court? I assume your school day starts at 9.00, you were very unlucky to get stopped by guards that time of the morning lol....

ironclaw

No leeway and don't even consider going to court. You were in the bus lane before any hatched or marked areas. The famous one is Mount Merrion Ave towards the N11. A good 300m or so before the lights is a bus lane that has very, very light usage. Common sense would dictate allowing cars turning left, with a clear run at it, to enter and turn left. Unfortunately, common sense ain't so common so the Gardai often live there even though it would considerably help traffic flow.

I can understand on the likes of a bus corridor e.g. N11, but in some situations there should be a caveat like a yellow box, clearway junction e.g. Enter only if you can clear it.

Tigger

Alex Meier wrote: »

I've seen the Gardai in court before.

They're not impressive.

They come across as illiterate quite frankly when dealing with judges.

Lol
This is a tiny country you know

Tigger

I'm pretty sure that the correct way to address this is be nice to the Garda and admit nothing
Act like he owns the road and you are sorry he formed an opinion that you did something wrong and you think he (or she) is probably right but admit nothing
I'd guess you acted like it was an inconvenience that he was enforcing (or in my experience reminding you of) the law

I dare you to take it to court

mbradso2003

Same thing happened me in Stillorgan last week, turning left pulled into Bus Lane 10-15 metres to early. If you dont move in early do one lets you merge into lane.

€60 fine received in post.

Jawgap

Alex Meier wrote: »

At the end of it all it concluded with the Garda stating . . "Have you anything to say"?

"I've a class waiting for me" was my response.

"Good Luck" then came the Garda. . . .

I won't repeat what I stated as the window rolled up.

Alex Meier wrote: »

I've seen the Gardai in court before.

They're not impressive.

They come across as illiterate quite frankly when dealing with judges.

Alex Meier wrote: »

I have no problem stating that I have little respect for members of AGS.

.....well if the Guard got any sense of that attitude you're gone.

Personally, I would have apologised and explained why I was in the bus lane. A bit of humility goes a long way.......

.......plus I would've clocked his number and rang de brudder straight after:D:D:D

db

Alex Meier wrote: »

I have no problem stating that I have little respect for members of AGS.

I find it quite disturbing that a teacher would admit to having little respect for the Gardai. How can we expect children to grow up respecting the law in this country if this is the example they get from their teacher?

Qualitymark

What's the law on this? At what point is a driver allowed to enter a bus lane to turn in to a premises?

(Wouldn't be inclined to take it to court; a lawyer friend told me of seeing a series of around 40 drivers called up by the judge: "Were you in the bus lane?" "Yes, but only for a couple of feet, I…" "Guilty, fined…" and a juicy fine for bringing the case to court rather than paying as originally fined.)

keithclancy

I must say, the layout of bus lanes in Ireland are terrible.

In many cases there's a bus lane with a cycle lane on the inside of it as well.

Whoever thought it was a good idea to make cars turn left from a standing stop across a bus lane was not thinking very clearly.

Especially with a school you'd expect a fairly long area to allow cars to queue to get into the school safely rather than block the driving lane with buses and taxis flying up the inside of them.

Jawgap

Qualitymark wrote: »

What's the law on this? At what point is a driver allowed to enter a bus lane to turn in to a premises?

(Wouldn't be inclined to take it to court; a lawyer friend told me of seeing a series of around 40 drivers called up by the judge: "Were you in the bus lane?" "Yes, but only for a couple of feet, I…" "Guilty, fined…" and a juicy fine for bringing the case to court rather than paying as originally fined.)

I'm guessing that the driver in question wasn't pulled a nano-second after they entered the bus lane - the Guard probably followed or observed them travelling some distance before pulling them.

I think if you start off with "I'm very sorry Guard, did I pull into the bus lane too early? I'm a teacher and was just heading into the school there." - you'll get further with the Guard compared to sitting there and fulminating while projecting a brooding sense of injustice

ThisRegard

You said, and hinted at, more than once you have contempt for the gardai, maybe this came across in your brief conversation (despite you claiming to be nothing but polite) and you brought it upon yourself? Did you cut the garda van off also?

I've been caught doing the very same thing, taking a left up the road, traffic was basically grid locked so I took the bus lane, garda on a bike saw me. I had a chat and said yeah, I shouldn't have been here, was taking that left turn here and got fed up sitting in traffic. With had a chat and he said grand, if you ever do it again, don't go into the bus lane so early next time.

Your attitude is everything with your first contact with a garda, or anyone for that matter.

Qualitymark

keithclancy wrote: »

I must say, the layout of bus lanes in Ireland are terrible.

In many cases there's a bus lane with a cycle lane on the inside of it as well.

Really? I thought these ceased to exist once cyclists were automatically allowed to use bus lanes.

I mostly don't find the layout of bus lanes bad, except on roads where they appear and disappear seemingly at random, which makes them rather pointless.

creedp

ironclaw wrote: »

No leeway and don't even consider going to court. You were in the bus lane before any hatched or marked areas. The famous one is Mount Merrion Ave towards the N11. A good 300m or so before the lights is a bus lane that has very, very light usage. Common sense would dictate allowing cars turning left, with a clear run at it, to enter and turn left. Unfortunately, common sense ain't so common so the Gardai often live there even though it would considerably help traffic flow.

I can understand on the likes of a bus corridor e.g. N11, but in some situations there should be a caveat like a yellow box, clearway junction e.g. Enter only if you can clear it.

+1 surely in a city that is grid locked it makes sense for the driver to get out of the driving lane and make a left turn in the most efficient way possible so long as he is not hindering anybody else - in this case buses/taxis. AGS would be a lot better off sitting back some distance from junctions and nabbing the considerable number of motorists who use the bus lane as their own personal carriageway.

Seen it this morning on the Finglas road heading into town. At one point 4 cars went flying past me on the bus lane but unfortunately, for the last one in the queue, a Garda car came up behind them and pulled him. The other 3 must have stopped off and bought a lotto ticket!

deathtocaptcha

was it really 10 metres or are you exaggerating? a streetview location would be nice so would could get a better idea of the junction in question...

LFCFan

The worse example of this is on Dorset Street, heading towards Drumcondra and turning left on to Whitworth Road. The broken lines to allow the move in to the bus lane only happens around 20 metres from the turn but at peak times if you aren't in the bus lane at least 50 metres earlier it's nearly impossible to turn left as cars are reluctant to let you in and if you try you can end up holding up traffic going straight. Very frustrating and if AGS ever pulled people at this junction for being in the bus lane it would stink of revenue generation.

ciotog

Qualitymark wrote: »

Really? I thought these ceased to exist once cyclists were automatically allowed to use bus lanes.

I mostly don't find the layout of bus lanes bad, except on roads where they appear and disappear seemingly at random, which makes them rather pointless.

No, there's a mix of:

• Bus lane with no cycle lane markings (just the signage indicating it's cycle & bus use))
• Bus lane with separate cycle lane beside it (bus and bike can be side by side)
• Bus lane with cycle lane marked inside the lane (you have a bloody great big bus just behind you)

Penkins

LFCFan wrote: »

The worse example of this is on Dorset Street, heading towards Drumcondra and turning left on to Whitworth Road. The broken lines to allow the move in to the bus lane only happens around 20 metres from the turn but at peak times if you aren't in the bus lane at least 50 metres earlier it's nearly impossible to turn left as cars are reluctant to let you in and if you try you can end up holding up traffic going straight. Very frustrating and if AGS ever pulled people at this junction for being in the bus lane it would stink of revenue generation.

There's the exact same problem when turning right from Whitworth road onto Dorset street. Practically every car wanting to turn left onto Belvidere road turns straight into the bus lane, a good 100m before the turn. If you tried to move into the bus lane at the correct distance you'd never be let in.

Redgirl82

Why bring it to court? You where in a bus lane and broke the law, crying about it on here will make no difference. Blocking up with courts with petty cases will help no-one either.....

You probably gave some attitude to the Garda and he/she said f**k them.

Based on your comments so far the original 10 yards is not correct at all.....

Anytime I have had to deal with Garda(very few Thank God) they have always been very polite.

One instance..... I was caught in bus lane years ago. My Fault. Garda came to window, I apologized up front and said to him I knew I shouldn't be in bus lane. He took my details. He asked if I needed car for work etc. Told me a few times I was stupid to be in bus lane, will get points etc. Then told me to keep out of bus lane and sent me on my way....

If you treat people with respect they will respect you.

A teacher of all people should know that, or I would hope they do.

Alex Meier

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Why bring it to court? You where in a bus lane and broke the law, crying about it on here will make no difference. Blocking up with courts with petty cases will help no-one either.....

You probably gave some attitude to the Garda and he/she said f**k them.

Based on your comments so far the original 10 yards is not correct at all.....

Anytime I have had to deal with Garda(very few Thank God) they have always been very polite.

One instance..... I was caught in bus lane years ago. My Fault. Garda came to window, I apologized up front and said to him I knew I shouldn't be in bus lane. He took my details. He asked if I needed car for work etc. Told me a few times I was stupid to be in bus lane, will get points etc. Then told me to keep out of bus lane and sent me on my way....

If you treat people with respect they will respect you.

A teacher of all people should know that, or I would hope they do.

The illiterate muppet who pulled me over approached and instantly stated "Licence Please".

I then tried, politely, to explain.

It fell on deaf ears dealing with a tosser like him.