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Rugby Union Yearly World League Idea

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    #32
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Is that not akin to saying "that won't happen so something less likely needs to be looked at!"

    At the end of the day it's the only solution I'm really interested in to be honest. I can only hold out hope we'll get there some day.
    It is what should happen but wont ever as the power lies with the 6Ns. They don't want to lose power and money which they would if this ever was to happen so you have to be realistic. We need to look to expanding the 6 Nations into a more pan European event and having a European version of world cup with pools and then knockouts. Just changing the 6 nations to promotion/relegation isn't enough.
    whatawaster wrote: »
    Such an idea would cheapen the World Cup, which is something I'm sure all Rugby fans look forward to every 4 years.
    It would also be a scheduling nightmare.

    Pressure needs to be put on touring teams in the NH (Aus, SA, NZ, Arg) to play at least one game each Autumn against a Georgia, Romania, Russia etc. Similarly, while touring the SH, the likes of Ireland should have to play Fiji/Samoa.

    I still believe a second division 6N is the way to go, with a promotion/relegation play-off each year.

    It's also important that the domestic games in lesser nations are allowed to develop. Perhaps Georgia, Romania, Russia etc should be allowed field a national team (obviously excluding foreign-based players) in the European Cup/Challenge Cup. Similar to what Argentina/Japan are doing in Super Rugby.
    The issues with getting sides to tour is the schedules for games in the Southern Hemisphere are decided years in advance. There is a second(and 3rd/4th/5th) division of the 6 Nations but they're not linked at the moment and adding in a promotion/relegation playoff wont happen for a long time IMO. The Georgian etc sides wont be let field sides in challenge cup. Theyre best players are playing abroad and there wouldn't be any desire for any union owned sides from these nations joining from those running the competitions(EPCR) and the clubs...
    The Romanians/Georgians don't want to field national/select XVs in European competition from my experience of talking to some fans/other forums. They want club sides.
    The Argentinians/Japanese can do so as they are in competitions completely ran by unions and its very different to what exists in NH.
    CMOTDibbler wrote: »
    Are the standards high enough for it not to be a farce? In other words would it be likely that the bottom team in the 6N would just yo-yo up and down between 1A and the current 6N?
    Georgia have won last 3/4 ENC titles. Give them more games against Italy/Scotland and others and theyd beat them. Georgia have only ever played Scotlands full national side on one occasion.


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    #33
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    CMOTDibbler wrote: »
    Are the standards high enough for it not to be a farce? In other words would it be likely that the bottom team in the 6N would just yo-yo up and down between 1A and the current 6N?

    It would be unlikely that anyone outside of Romania/Georgia could win the current 1A and unlikely that any team currently in the 6 Nations wouldn't win 1A, so those teams would move up and down a lot until someone else emerges. I don't see how that's a "farce" though.


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    #34
    Ken.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,898 ✭✭✭✭Ken.


    Maybe they should let Georgia,Romania and one or two others in to the u20's 6 nations comp. It would be a (I think) step up for them. Give them a few years of that to see how it goes and then maybe a bump up to full 6 nations status.


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    #35
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    ken wrote: »
    Maybe they should let Georgia,Romania and one or two others in to the u20's 6 nations comp. It would be a (I think) step up for them. Give them a few years of that to see how it goes and then maybe a bump up to full 6 nations status.
    But why focus simply on the 6nations/rugby championship? We need to look at expansion but in the right way. Just expanding these championships wont happen. Promotion/Relegation wont happen as the unions in the 6 nations depend on the income from that competition for funding rugby at every level of the game and getting relegated ****s that up. Expanding the 6 nations to 7/8 wont happen as there isn't room in the season/privately owned clubs wont agree to it


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    #36
    Ken.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,898 ✭✭✭✭Ken.


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    But why focus simply on the 6nations/rugby championship? We need to look at expansion but in the right way. Just expanding these championships wont happen. Promotion/Relegation wont happen as the unions in the 6 nations depend on the income from that competition for funding rugby at every level of the game and getting relegated ****s that up. Expanding the 6 nations to 7/8 wont happen as there isn't room in the season/privately owned clubs wont agree to it

    My idea is a start though to bring the smaller nations up to a higher level. If they attain a higher level then the cry for a bigger competition has more validity.


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    #37
    CMOTDibbler
    Registered Users Posts: 7,415 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    It would be unlikely that anyone outside of Romania/Georgia could win the current 1A and unlikely that any team currently in the 6 Nations wouldn't win 1A, so those teams would move up and down a lot until someone else emerges. I don't see how that's a "farce" though.
    Actually I had an idea that it would be Italy going up and down to the 2nd division but not on recent records. In the last ten years it's been:

    Italy, Scotland, Italy, Italy, Italy, Italy, Scotland, France, Italy, Scotland.

    That might be interesting :D


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    #38
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    ken wrote: »
    My idea is a start though to bring the smaller nations up to a higher level. If they attain a higher level then the cry for a bigger competition has more validity.

    I really like the idea. It would add to the 20s competition as well as giving our loads more experience together before the JWC. Would love to see it.
    CMOTDibbler wrote: »
    Actually I had an idea that it would be Italy going up and down to the 2nd division but not on recent records. In the last ten years it's been:

    Italy, Scotland, Italy, Italy, Italy, Italy, Scotland, France, Italy, Scotland.

    That might be interesting :D

    Yeah it'd most likely be Italy/Scotland going up and down. I think it'd make things very interesting at the bottom!


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    #39
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    ken wrote: »
    My idea is a start though to bring the smaller nations up to a higher level. If they attain a higher level then the cry for a bigger competition has more validity.
    But their 20s are like ours a few steps away from international duty. Yes it would fit in the season but again just focusing on the 6 nations has to change. European rugby does need to expand but just expanding the 6 nations wont ever happen. We need to do more. Having a proper European championship every 4 years with more games in between for sides like Georgia, Romania and Russia should be looked at(Yes this is quite unrealistic but its better than simply expanding the 6 nations)
    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    I really like the idea. It would add to the 20s competition as well as giving our loads more experience together before the JWC. Would love to see it.

    Yeah it'd most likely be Italy/Scotland going up and down. I think it'd make things very interesting at the bottom!
    Loads more experience together?? Not really.
    It would be the two fighting to go down but is that whats really needed?


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    #40
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    Loads more experience together?? Not really.
    It would be the two fighting to go down but is that whats really needed?

    2 Extra games. That's a lot of very useful time together. And it would really give them a very high standard of rugby to aspire to at that level.


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    #41
    jaykay74
    Registered Users Posts: 6,575 ✭✭✭jaykay74


    Alternatively hold the world cup every 2 years instead of 4. Or every second year in the 4 year cycle have a European championship which would basically be an extended 6 nations in terms of scale and give Georgia, Romania etc a chance to play meaningful games more than every 4 years.


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    #42
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    jaykay74 wrote: »
    Alternatively hold the world cup every 2 years instead of 4. Or every second year in the 4 year cycle have a European championship which would basically be an extended 6 nations in terms of scale and give Georgia, Romania etc a chance to play meaningful games more than every 4 years.
    World Cup every two years is overkill. We would be closing doors and becoming more like cricket.


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    #43
    RogerThis
    Registered Users Posts: 747 ✭✭✭RogerThis


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    Having a proper European championship every 4 years with more games in between for sides like Georgia, Romania and Russia should be looked at(Yes this is quite unrealistic but its better than simply expanding the 6 nations)

    Where would you see this in the calendar? Would that be extra games or to replace summer\autumn internationals games?


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    #44
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    RogerThis wrote: »
    Where would you see this in the calendar? Would that be extra games or to replace summer\autumn internationals games?
    Replace internationals/replace the 6 nations for one year. Would love to see it but it wont happen.


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    #45
    RogerThis
    Registered Users Posts: 747 ✭✭✭RogerThis


    This would mean playing the southern team less. Which wouldn't be good for our competitiveness.


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    #46
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    CMOTDibbler wrote: »
    The first thing wrong with that is that you're excluding USA, Russia, Spain, Portugal, Malaysia, Sri Lanka, Namibia and Zimbabwe who are all growing rugby nation.

    Secondly if a nation is going to have a minimum of 22 games, that's half the year gone at least. Even if you completely scrapped the six nations, what's left for club rugby? Or are players expected to play all year round?

    You can work it similarly to the Provinces and the AIL. Players are contracted by Ireland but will play for the provinces if they are not getting game time or are coming back from injury. International rugby will be a full time gig.

    You can create a B tournament for the other nations, maybe even relegation from the World League for the winner of the B tournament.


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    #47
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    You can work it similarly to the Provinces and the AIL. Players are contracted by Ireland but will play for the provinces if they are not getting game time or are coming back from injury. International rugby will be a full time gig.

    You can create a B tournament for the other nations, maybe even relegation from the World League for the winner of the B tournament.
    That is just backwards thinking and will not ever happen as privately owned sides in France/England wont ever let it happen.
    The sport doesn't need it as it stops the development of the game and widening the base of the game at international. This move is one of the last things the sport needs


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