jeep and trailor

Dunedin

looking at changing the ivor Williams trailer - as it's a bit small and looking for something bigger for the longer draws.
Looking at a twin axle 14 foot one – it’s in good nick albeit one of the older models.

Just wondering how safe it would be behind the jeep (Land Cruiser long brace). Thinking that a full (ish) load would probably be ok but say if I only had a couple of cattle in it and they went down to the back – could cause a lot of weight to be taken off the back of the jeep.

Any experience(s) to share/offer?

Grueller

Couple of points here in my opinion.

1 A tri axle is far more stable than a twin axle to tow. In a 14' box I would not consider buying a twin axle after towing both at this length.

2 I am not sure of the tow ratings of a land cruiser but I am sure that she will not be legal to tow a 14' box fully loaded. At a guess the box alone will be 1200 kgs. My jeep has a 3 tonne tow rating so that is legally leaving me only 1800kgs in the box. That is three handy enough sized sucklers in my case, don't know how many sheep.

3 I have an outfarm 7-8 miles from home. Last Sunday we went to bring cattle home off of it. I had the jeep and trailer. I brought 6 450kgish heifers. The boss brought 15 of the same behind the tractor. We left the outfarm in convoy and the boss was eight minutes behind me back to the yard. My advice is for bigger loads have a good sized tractor trailer.

4 Buy a dividing gate to keep the cattle tight in the box. Cuts out the problem of them moving around.

Muckit

14' fully loaded would be legally too big for the Jeep and a lad could even be over the limit with a 12'.

There was an article in the IFJ. The example given was 4 x 600kg bullocks = 2400kg. A 12' I W was quoted as having an unladen weight of just over the tonne (1000kg). 2400+1000= 3400kg.

3500kg is max you are allowed legally tow with the majority of jeeps. So with 4 x750kg factory bullocks in a 12', a lad would be well over the limit.

patsy_mccabe

Both the Jeep and trailer should have plates showing the permissible weights.

Green farmer

Grueller wrote: »

Couple of points here in my opinion.


I am not sure of the tow ratings of a land cruiser but I am sure that she will not be legal to tow a 14' box fully loaded. At a guess the box alone will be 1200 kgs. My jeep has a 3 tonne tow rating so that is legally leaving me only 1800kgs in the box. QUOTE]


Land cruiser is 3 tonne as well, unless they've changed it in very recent years. Other thing I heard is the tri axels are heavy enough on the towing vehicle and tyres. Never had one myself though.

simx

while a jeep trailer is very handy i would agree on tractor trailer unless long distances to be going. had a jeep with a 12` box and got rid of both and got a 20` tractor trailer, certain times of year when buying cattle id be going to 3/4 marts a week, 2 of which are 12 miles away, in the tractor its about 10 mins longer than jeep, that said i still miss the jeep for moving maybe 4/5 cows but the way i see it circa 600e to insure, 333 to tax 112 doe without retest along with any ware and tare incurred along the way, 50e diesel wouldnt do much towing a box for ya, tractors taxed insured anyway, i know its getting more ware and tare on it but its there to be worked, the laws with towing trailers behind jeeps are stricter now with licences and weights, if still keen on jeep trailer id get a tri axle 14` as the drag pulling a double axle is a good bit more

mayota

The gross weight of them trailers is 3500kgs so your looking at a payload of 2300 - 2500 kgs, in theory making a 14' trailer obsolete.

Bullocks

Muckit wrote: »

14' fully loaded would be legally too big for the Jeep and a lad could even be over the limit with a 12'.

There was an article in the IFJ. The example given was 4 x 600kg bullocks = 2400kg. A 12' I W was quoted as having an unladen weight of just over the tonne (1000kg). 2400+1000= 3400kg.

3500kg is max you are allowed legally tow with the majority of jeeps. So with 4 x750kg factory bullocks in a 12', a lad would be well over the limit.

I saw a lad last night heading past my place in a land cruiser with a tri axle ( 14' I guess ) and a 10 x 5 on the back of that without a stich of a light . The big trailer had decks on it and was filled with sheep . I couldn't see what whether there was decks on the smaller trailer but I could see wool poking out of that aswell . Some chance he was taking

MfMan

Erm.. it is 'theoretically' ahem possible to tow 4/5 strong factory cattle in a 14' trailer, preferably tri-axle, and in theory the LC would manage it. The looser the cattle are, the 'giddier' towing it becomes as they move about. Who would do it though?

BG2.0

Bullocks wrote: »

I saw a lad last night heading past my place in a land cruiser with a tri axle ( 14' I guess ) and a 10 x 5 on the back of that without a stich of a light . The big trailer had decks on it and was filled with sheep . I couldn't see what whether there was decks on the smaller trailer but I could see wool poking out of that aswell . Some chance he was taking

How do you attach the second trailer? even

Bullocks

BG2.0 wrote: »

How do you attach the second trailer? even

It was dark when he passed but he must've welded on a towbar to the first trailer somehow

Muckit

BG2.0 wrote: »

How do you attach the second trailer? even

Baling twine..... DAWWWWW, everybody knows that!

Eggie99

As far as I know lads, when pulling a tri axle trailer behind a jeep you are required to have a " CE licence " an artic license none the less it's something to do with the the classification of licence needed to tow anything more than a 2 axle trailer. So just be mindfull if buying a new outfit that you might not actually be licensed/insured if anything was to happen

Grueller

Eggie99 wrote: »

As far as I know lads, when pulling a tri axle trailer behind a jeep you are required to have a " CE licence " an artic license none the less it's something to do with the the classification of licence needed to tow anything more than a 2 axle trailer. So just be mindfull if buying a new outfit that you might not actually be licensed/insured if anything was to happen

Axle numbers don't matter afaik.
It is down to the tow capacity of the jeep and the weight the trailer is plated for. After that I don't know any jeep that is plated to tow over the limit of a BE licence at 3500kg.

farawaygrass

Grueller wrote: »

Axle numbers don't matter afaik.
It is down to the tow capacity of the jeep and the weight the trailer is plated for. After that I don't know any jeep that is plated to tow over the limit of a BE licence at 3500kg.

I think that ce licence for a tri axle is urban myth. Never any mention of it from the rsa. And 3500kg is the max towing weight of a jeep that I know of to, and alot of jeeps aren't even that.

Grueller

farawaygrass wrote: »

I think that ce licence for a tri axle is urban myth. Never any mention of it from the rsa. And 3500kg is the max towing weight of a jeep that I know of to, and alot of jeeps aren't even that.

I think under 3500kg comes from the fact that in a lot of jurisdictions once you exceed that weight you need to fit a tachograph.

Base price

As an aside I met a friend last week who told me that she was stopped at a multi agency checkpoint near Ashbourne earlier this summer. She was towing an Ifor Williams horse box with her children's horse and pony. All lights etc were working but the guy from the RSA told her that she was breaking the law because she had a chain with welded round link dropped over the tow bar.
Apparently the RSA don't like this method and prefer that we rely on the wire safety cable that is attached to the tow bar/trailer breaking system as it activates the trailer brakes if the trailer becomes uncoupled.

Wishbone Ash

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Both the Jeep and trailer should have plates showing the permissible weights.

Those plates usually display the manufacturers maximum weights - not necessarily the legal permissible weights in the jurisdiction where it is used (which may be lower).

Eggie99 wrote: »

As far as I know lads, when pulling a tri axle trailer behind a jeep you are required to have a " CE licence " an artic license none the less it's something to do with the the classification of licence needed to tow anything more than a 2 axle trailer...

A EC1 licence would suffice (7,000kgs+trailer IIRC). The number of axles is irrelevant.

I think I'd be more concerned about the stopping ability of any combination rather than the towing ability.

Limestone Cowboy

MfMan wrote: »

Erm.. it is 'theoretically' ahem possible to tow 4/5 strong factory cattle in a 14' trailer, preferably tri-axle, and in theory the LC would manage it. The looser the cattle are, the 'giddier' towing it becomes as they move about. Who would do it though?

I had 5 705kg bullocks in mine last week, they were well packed in it and they were still giddy enough. A lot more comfort pulling weanlings than tall heavy cattle. Every time one of them moves in the box you'd feel it.

farawaygrass

farawaygrass wrote: »

I think that ce licence for a tri axle is urban myth. Never any mention of it from the rsa. And 3500kg is the max towing weight of a jeep that I know of to, and alot of jeeps aren't even that.

Isn't a Bradley tow hitch, which is used on nearly every trailer only rated to tow 3500kg too?

blue5000

An ifor tri-axle is very smooth on the road compared to a double axle. The problems start either with a heavy load or only one or two cattle in it. With the heavy load you can plough straight on in a bend, with the trailer pushing the jeep out of control. With one animal in the front all the weight is on the front axle of the trailer, causing the back of the trailer to be very light. On a bend the tail swing is unbelievable. Gates can help ok.

Have a double axle 12 foot ifor here and it does what I want it to do, I'd be at my limit with 3 factory fit bulls though. Everyone seems to have a different opinion on the law at present, the sooner it's clarified the better.

foxy farmer

farawaygrass wrote: »

Isn't a Bradley tow hitch, which is used on nearly every trailer only rated to tow 3500kg too?

All ball hitches only rated for 3500kgs

Mad4simmental

How many big cows would you get into a 12 Ivor vs a 14?
Pulling with a tractor not a jeep.

Buona Fortuna

BG2.0 wrote: »

How do you attach the second trailer? even

Was chatting with the neighbour last year. He was borrowing my little trailer. We did bit of head scratching and shoving trying to get the little trailer on his. In the end he said "Fockit I'll just weld hitch".

I said "What if you see the gard?"

He said "Just hope he doesn't get me to reverse it."

barnaman

http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Your-Vehicle/Vehicle-Standards/Agricultural-Vehicles/

Read the above lads and the PDF link on that page. Already made some changes to my gear to make it legal for essentially next month. Holding off buying a trailer myself until 2016 as reckon lot of old trailers not legal. Important to read the bit about speed of trailer as well as weight.

Limestone Cowboy

Mad4simmental wrote: »

How many big cows would you get into a 12 Ivor vs a 14?
Pulling with a tractor not a jeep.

You'd get 5 big cows into a 14ft or 6 handy ones, minus one for a 12ft.

Dunedin

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

You'd get 5 big cows into a 14ft or 6 handy ones, minus one for a 12ft.

What are the opinions of pulling 12' with a jeep

agriman27

Dunedin wrote: »

What are the opinions of pulling 12' with a jeep

12 foot is a very good size for behind a jeep, it's not too long to turn and can carry a decent load. I have a Hudson 12 foot tri axle, great steady trailer and the brakes are brilliant. I wouldn't even consider the 14' double axle ya looked at for behind a jeep.

Dunedin

blue5000 wrote: »

Have a double axle 12 foot ifor here and it does what I want it to do, I'd be at my limit with 3 factory fit bulls though. Everyone seems to have a different opinion on the law at present, the sooner it's clarified the better.

would you need a dividing gate for the 12 foot - say for maybe just one bull or a cow in it?

blue5000

Dunedin wrote: »

would you need a dividing gate for the 12 foot - say for maybe just one bull or a cow in it?

No, there would be enough weight on the trailer axle wherever the animal stands. Sorry late reply been busy looking at ifa saga.:pac:

patsy_mccabe

I was bringing weanlings to the mart yesterday. I have to put the tractor on the ifor Williams box first as it's easier to manoeuvre and then transfer over to the landcruiser. When I did none of the trailer lights would work. Stuck one of those red LED lidl lights on the back and away I went. I think I pinched the cable on the back door. Parked up at the mart and when I came back out an hour later, there was guards everywhere. They were doing a jeep and trailer towing demonstration.:eek:
Lets just say I left before it got dark and used the other entrance.:rolleyes:

The demonstration was very good in fairness. There were maybe 4 guards there and they were kept going all day talking to bunches of farmers, most elderly. They said they are prosecuting now for not having the right licence (EB). Also said that insurance companies were very vague when it came to towing trailers but became very specific when there was an accident. Trailers must have a breakaway cable ideally, if not then a chain. Both must be fixed to the frame of the hitch, not the ball part of it. They said too that chains are a disaster as the trailer is still attached to the jeep when it unhitches and the whole thing becomes unstable and ends up capsizing the jeep. Better to unhitch the trailer completely and pull it's handbrake with the breakaway cable.
Both the jeep and the trailer are fitted with plates explaining the weights they can tow. They had a Mitsubishi 4x4 there and said it was only allowed to tow 2,500 Kgs in the trailer.

I said

Will be sticking trailer on tractor from now on

teddy 1223

patsy_mccabe wrote:

The demonstration was very good in fairness. There were maybe 4 guards there and they were kept going all day talking to bunches of farmers, most elderly. They said they are prosecuting now for not having the right licence (EB). Also said that insurance companies were very vague when it came to towing trailers but became very specific when there was an accident. Trailers must have a breakaway cable ideally, if not then a chain. Both must be fixed to the frame of the hitch, not the ball part of it. Both the jeep and the trailer should have weight plates explaining the weights they can tow. They had a Mitsubishi 4x4 there and said it was only allowed to tow 2,500 Kgs in the trailer.

Can u use a car to pull a small cow box if u have the license. I still see some people at it

Bass Reeves

I said wrote: »

Will be sticking trailer on tractor from now on

The trailer( if it is a an aluminium one) is limited to 3.5 ton this si the spec for the hitch. Talking to my agent/haulier lately getting hassled in factory when there is 5 cattle in the box as they are saying it is over weight. I think it is only a matter of time before they become strict at factory's and marts. It may well happen that you will be stopped from loading obivious illegal loads. This will impact jeeps and trailers straight off but also box'es behind tractors.

I think if I was buying a cattle box I be looking at a specific tractor drawn one and a smallish box that is legal to pull by the jeep or car you have.

pedigree 6

teddy 1223 wrote: »

Can u use a car to pull a small cow box if u have the license. I still see some people at it

There's a plate on the car that should give gross weight and net weight. The difference is the weight that the car can tow.
Say it's 2 ton (for the craic) and the trailer weighs 750kgs. You can only put 1.25 t on the trailer to be legal (within that vehicle's limit).

Edit : another thing this is the gross weight of the car and trailer included.
If your a big hefty fella or the car is full of passengers, that reduces the weight that can be put on the trailer.

foxy farmer

Trailer offences will be a big thing. Was pulled over by cop at 10 at night recently while drawing maize for contractor. Got into a tizzy over no numberplate. Was told plates must be changed to match tractor if swapping trailers. One tyre had a few chunks missing probably due to hard braking. This was another issue. Plenty tread on all tyres regardless. Got me to work all my lights and checked my licence. Left me off with a caution but said that they are clamping down hard on trailer issues. €60 on the spot fine for no reg plate if caught.

Parishlad

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I think if I was buying a cattle box I be looking at a specific tractor drawn one and a smallish box that is legal to pull by the jeep or car you have.

This is what I think I am going to have to do. Because of the fragmented nature of the farm I move the cattle around quite a bit over the Summer. Have an outfarm about 8 miles away that the cows and calves are moved to and from once a year. Then there are a few trips to the mart every year.
Have an old IW 12' by 6'. Will probably have to spend a bit on this to sort out brakes, light etc. but ultimately I think I will have to get a bigger cattle trailer for the tractor.

patsy_mccabe

I have a SWB Lancruiser. The VIN Plate says 2600kg, 5400kg, 1-1290kg, 2-1800kg

So Gross Vehicle Weight is 2600kg. We have a small electronic weighing scales here at work and I weighed the front wheel (505Kg) and back wheel (445kg). So total weight is 1900Kg. This for 1/4 tank full, no driver, no cargo. Allow 100kg for driver, no passenger .

Weight of emply Ivor Williams, 12x7 is 1130kg.From;
http://www.iwt.co.uk/products/livestock/ta510/?tab=spec#tab

So total weight of cattle allowed in box is 5400-1900-100-1130=2270kg.
So 3 heavy cows or 6 weanlings at 380 kg. That would be about it's limit alright. Go to a bigger trailer and you're in trouble.

Grueller

pedigree 6 wrote: »

There's a plate on the car that should give gross weight and net weight. The difference is the weight that the car can tow.
Say it's 2 ton (for the craic) and the trailer weighs 750kgs. You can only put 1.25 t on the trailer to be legal (within that vehicle's limit).

Edit : another thing this is the gross weight of the car and trailer included.
If your a big hefty fella or the car is full of passengers, that reduces the weight that can be put on the trailer.

Going to have to leave the auld fella walk and throw out the bottle jack, sledge, wire, staples, spare stakes, ratchet straps and the half tonne of baling twine so.

boggerman1

What sort of money would a good used 8/6 cow box be got for.thinking of letting off the one I have as its not in great nik.

pedigree 6

Grueller wrote: »

Going to have to leave the auld fella walk and throw out the bottle jack, sledge, wire, staples, spare stakes, ratchet straps and the half tonne of baling twine so.

Were you at the trailer towing information day in the WFM yard about a month ago.
It was exactly what patsy was at in his part of the country.
They were weighing the jeep and trailer and explaining the whole situation.
You might laugh.:pac:

But no farmer in the country can plead ignorance about this now.
Ye have been warned.

patsy_mccabe

We had an american over at work a while back. 193kgs he weighed. Now if you had him in the passenger seat and you liked the Full Irish yerself, that would be one less weanling you could have in the trailer.

mayota

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

We had an american over at work a while back. 193kgs he weighed. Now if you had him in the passenger seat and you liked the Full Irish yerself, that would be one less weanling you could have in the trailer.

If the guards bring you to the weighbridge you could let that lad out somewhere to stretch his legs.

Grueller

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Were you at the trailer towing information day in the WFM yard about a month ago.
It was exactly what patsy was at in his part of the country.
They were weighing the jeep and trailer and explaining the whole situation.
You might laugh.:pac:

But no farmer in the country can plead ignorance about this now.
Ye have been warned.

No wasn't at that day. Was that the same day as Staffords of Drinaghs suckler reduction sale.

Bass Reeves

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

We had an american over at work a while back. 193kgs he weighed. Now if you had him in the passenger seat and you liked the Full Irish yerself, that would be one less weanling you could have in the trailer.

Or two less runners

Bass Reeves

I saw this on DD now it looks a fine job.....but would it have to be plated for new regs.


https://www.donedeal.ie/cattletrailers-for-sale/cattle-trailer/13830958

_Brian

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I saw this on DD now it looks a fine job.....but would it have to be plated for new regs.


https://www.donedeal.ie/cattletrailers-for-sale/cattle-trailer/13830958

No price , ****ing hate ads with no price, bloody messers.

Worst is lads with ads and no price then the ad says "don't ring if ya only want to chat", put the damn price up and I'll probably never bother ringing.

Who2

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I saw this on DD now it looks a fine job.....but would it have to be plated for new regs.


https://www.donedeal.ie/cattletrailers-for-sale/cattle-trailer/13830958

The ramp is too steep on it, it would be a tramp loading animals.

pedigree 6

Grueller wrote: »

No wasn't at that day. Was that the same day as Staffords of Drinaghs suckler reduction sale.

No it was a special IFA trailer rules of the road information day.
With the guards and HSA in attendance.
A Garda official was showing what they will stop tractors, jeeps, cars and trailers for.
They also showed the different ratchet straps for tying down loads and legal/illegal ones.
They also as patsy showed the weights that can be legally towed now with a mobile weighing scales.
The whole place was packed to the rafters in the ring for the hsa talk first.

As I said no farmer can plead ignorance about this now.

AckwelFoley

A breakaway cable is of little use if your brakes aren't working on the trailer.

As correctly stated a chain should be only used on a trailer thar is under 750kg and doesn't require brakes.

Check your hitch heads regularly. There are wear indicators on the Bradley and Knott hitch heads. The cast is softer than the ball on your vehicle so it is the hitch head that will wear. The amount of couplings I see every week that should be scrapped is frightening

AckwelFoley

See attached image. The indicator is only relevant when the coupling is mounted on the ball of the vehicle. So if the trailer is on the vehicle and you have a Bradley Hitch sitting like this second image the Hitch head is worn