Flight Attendant sues Aer Lingus

Mebuntu

Interesting case began today.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/the-plane-bounced-off-the-runway-three-times-passengers-were-screaming-and-alcohol-was-pouring-on-them-flight-attendant-suing-aer-lingus-34187963.html

LeakRate

Christ almighty, spare a thought for the other 160 odd souls who managed to pull through this!

Absoluvely

Opening her case, Finbar Fox SC said the downward [sic] force generated during the landing was consistent with a wholly inappropriate and excessive rate of descent.

I'd imagine that the flight data recorder would be able to quantify the bumpiness of the landing, but that that data wasn't saved.

An employer has a duty of care to its employees anyway though, so if she suffered genuine injuries that weren't her fault then I'd imagine she'll probably win some compensation.

I wonder how much she's looking for. I wonder if she went to the Injuries Board first.

goingnowhere

If it was a 'hard' landing i.e exceeded the G limit the aircraft would need check and the computer onboard would log that

A320 would print out a report and would report back by ACARS as well

Tenger

It was Nov 2009...so quite a while ago. I wonder why the case took so long. Anyone have any memory of it?.....if duty free alcohol bottles smashed and dripped on passengers I'm sure there would have been some newspaper coverage of the event?

basill

And she gets a job on the ground and then saves her money up to sue the company that puts a roof over her head. I don't think it was a hard landing.....just a standard wet and windy landing into Dublin. No doubt the tech stuff will all come out as ops monitoring will have stored all of the flight data which could blow her case out of the water. I can't see the AL legal and PR team letting it get to the courts if they didn't have a strong defence. Could become very costly for her in more ways than one.

homerjay2005

does she still work for the company?

very very selfish to sue the company that gave her a good salary for years regardless of whether she still is there or not.

Chiorino

homerjay2005 wrote: »

does she still work for the company?

very very selfish to sue the company that gave her a good salary for years regardless of whether she still is there or not.

Yes, she works for the "social media" department I believe.

Tenger

homerjay2005 wrote: »

does she still work for the company?..........................

Second last line of the article:
She now works in the social media section of Aer Lingus.

de biz

Tenger wrote: »

Second last line of the article:
She now works in the social media section of Aer Lingus.

#shudacalledanambulance

Jhcx

Can the company dismiss her after this. Surely they wouldn't want someone who sues them to be working for them.

But obviously something has brought her to go that far.

ongarboy

I'm guessing as part of her social media role, she won't be preparing official EI statements concerning the case to present to online media outlets!

It seems odd to sue your own company while remaining employed there. Must be awkward when you run into the CEO in the lift! I'm sure it doesn't help with promotional prospects but you have to admire her tenacity to pursue the case in such circumstances.

martinsvi

How many cases we have had where turbulence injures cabin crew - broken ribs, ankles and what have you - no one has ever sued? I would think this is an occupational hazard and surely you should consider this before applying for the job? This prima donna gets a soft tissue injury which basically is a little worse than a hickey and she thinks she has the grounds to sue the airline. The only crime that Aerlingus committed here was poor cabin crew assessment not weeding her out as someone who is unfit and too scared to do the job. Honestly it would be a dark day for aviation if she would get anything out of it.. what's next? Pilot suing airline for plane being too loud?

Mebuntu

How many cases we have had where turbulence injures cabin crew - broken ribs, ankles and what have you - no one has ever sued? I would think this is an occupational hazard and surely you should consider this before applying for the job? This prima donna gets a soft tissue injury which basically is a little worse than a hickey and she thinks she has the grounds to sue the airline. The only crime that Aerlingus committed here was poor cabin crew assessment not weeding her out as someone who is unfit and too scared to do the job. Honestly it would be a dark day for aviation if she would get anything out of it.. what's next? Pilot suing airline for plane being too loud?

With respect, without knowing all the facts this is a little harsh and I don’t think that, just because you work in a ”dangerous” environment, precludes you from taking legal action if things “go wrong”.

The incident took place 5 years ago. We don’t know why such a delay has occurred in taking court action. Might be just due to case backlog or, on the other hand, injuries not clearing up over time, who knows.

I wonder if this is a test case and I’m sure that flight attendants in all airlines will be awaiting the verdict with great interest.

On the face of it, I would imagine that both the plaintiff and the defence must have good reason for going through with this rather than settle amicably.

Charlie-Bravo

If it is a test case, perhaps AL won't let it be decided in court, and will settle in the end out of court and undisclosed.

martinsvi

the fact that she admits fearing for her life, having panic attacks and whatnot clearly shows that she would have been absolutely frozen stiff useless should an actual emergency occurred and pax in need of a professional crew. If a pax can make a comment right in her face saying she doesn't sound very reassuring? Paints a picture, doesn't it?

mushypeas12

If she is successful and gets compensation, that money will bring her no luck.

Locker10a

To me it sounds like she was new or temporary crew and perhaps didn't get her contract renewed! Any seasoned crew member would not have the reaction/attitude she seems to have towards what happened!
Its true that crew get a lot of injuries at work, i know friends who have suffered broken hips and ribs etc. from turbulence and hard landings do happen and can cause back or neck injuries. But we are trained how to sit( silly as that sounds) to minimise the risk of this while in the jumpseats. I had a friend who injured their back running down the aisle as the aircraft landed as the flight crew forgot to give secure to the crew, these things happen sometime, but nobody sues!
I don't think this girl was in the right job and I suspect there may be more to the story here....

martinsvi

as it turns out, it's not the first case - http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/aer-lingus-cabin-crew-member-sues-over-alleged-hard-landing-1.2088550

In High Court proceedings, she makes a number of claims including that the airline failed to provide a safe place or system of work, failed to train her adequately or at all and failed to implement any or any adequate risk assessment. She also claims there was a failure to land the aircraft safely.

those are some very strong allegations to say the least

Aer Lingus denies her claims and contends she was the author of her own misfortune, failed to take any or reasonable care for her safety and failed to exercise proper attention and follow proper procedures.

clearly if 100+ passengers and 3-4 other cabin crew members walk away unscratched you should look at your own performance first before blaming others and procedures?

billie1b

martinsvi wrote: »

the fact that she admits fearing for her life, having panic attacks and whatnot clearly shows that she would have been absolutely frozen stiff useless should an actual emergency occurred and pax in need of a professional crew. If a pax can make a comment right in her face saying she doesn't sound very reassuring? Paints a picture, doesn't it?

Regardless of the amount of training you go through you will never know your true outcome until faced with it, same goes for pilots, garda, firmen etc etc. I know one former pilot who had an engine fire on the RWY, he ran out of the flight deck and left the f/o to look after it, gladly he's not a pilot anymore, everyone reacts different from their training to the real thing.

outsidein98

Suing a company you work for is not uncommon. Remember they're usually insured for workplace injuries. No one takes it personally particularly in a big company. I personally know a couple of people who were compensated after workplace accidents who continued in the job without any issues and they had genuine injuries.

However I think she has a very thin case. Clearly she is a sensitive soul probably unsuited to being cabin crew. A single hard landing put her off for life. As for her injuries, they maybe real enough even if there is no such thing as whiplash. It's surprising that she was the only casualty apart from the Co-pilot's ego. Can't see her getting much out of it. I think the reason EI are contesting this is because every heavy landing will generate claims from now on. Imagine how much that would cost?

martinsvi

billie1b wrote: »

Regardless of the amount of training you go through you will never know your true outcome until faced with it, same goes for pilots, garda, firmen etc etc. I know one former pilot who had an engine fire on the RWY, he ran out of the flight deck and left the f/o to look after it, gladly he's not a pilot anymore, everyone reacts different from their training to the real thing.

true, but a bouncy landing shouldn't shock a cabin crew.. I mean I wouldn't blame her if there was dead bodies all around or fire/smoke, but if a little roughness can cause panic, I don't think it's the right job for her

Locker10a

martinsvi wrote: »

true, but a bouncy landing shouldn't shock a cabin crew.. I mean I wouldn't blame her if there was dead bodies all around or fire/smoke, but if a little roughness can cause panic, I don't think it's the right job for her

No a bouncy landing is normal of course but whats classed as an actual hard landing, while rare, can happen and can cause injuries in particular to cabin crew using jumpseats at the rear of the aircraft

ProfessorPlum

outsidein98 wrote: »

I think the reason EI are contesting this is because every heavy landing will generate claims from now on. Imagine how much that would cost?

Unfortunately this kind of thing is not new. Some airlines have been in the habit of making a payment to complaining crew to avoid the cost of going to court - as we can see, cases end up in the high court which is a very expensive place to spend time. I gather that Aer Lingus have begun to take a different approach and are challenging more and more of this kind of thing in the courts.

ProfessorPlum

Locker10a wrote: »

No a bouncy landing is normal of course but whats classed as an actual hard landing, while rare, can happen and can cause injuries in particular to cabin crew using jumpseats at the rear of the aircraft

As has been said before, an actual hard landing generates an automatic report from airbus aircraft, triggers a technical inspection and is reportable as an incident. From the information given, it would appear that this didn't happen.

Locker10a

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

As has been said before, an actual hard landing generates an automatic report from airbus aircraft, triggers a technical inspection and is reportable as an incident. From the information given, it would appear that this didn't happen.

No it didn't, the landing in question here, I believe was not a "hard" landing! I suspect this claim will go nowhere

hardCopy

Locker10a wrote: »

No it didn't, the landing in question here, I believe was not a "hard" landing! I suspect this claim will go nowhere

I'm not a lawyer, or a pilot.

The airbus threshold for a hard landing is based on potential damage to the plane, people are a lot softer.

Could the case potentially end up defining a new health and safety based limit as to how hard a plane can be allowed to land? Or new jump-seat requirements?

Captain Chaos

hardCopy wrote: »

I'm not a lawyer, or a pilot.

The airbus threshold for a hard landing is based on potential damage to the plane, people are a lot softer.

Could the case potentially end up defining a new health and safety based limit as to how hard a plane can be allowed to land? Or new jump-seat requirements?

There is a g limit alarm built in for landings. If the aircraft exceeds this the maintenance crew are notified automatically. This is about 2.5g-3g peak acceleration energy, the most extreme roller coasters in the world that you can go on can go up to 3-4g for a few fractions of a second.

F1 drivers experience 5g lateral going through some turns but yes they train very hard to cope with that.

ProfessorPlum

hardCopy wrote: »

I'm not a lawyer, or a pilot.

The airbus threshold for a hard landing is based on potential damage to the plane, people are a lot softer.

Could the case potentially end up defining a new health and safety based limit as to how hard a plane can be allowed to land? Or new jump-seat requirements?

In short, no.

KwackerJack

So she admits that she did not reassure the passengers then has the neck to sue the Airline because it was a bumpy landing!!!

Well obviously she's a useless Air Hostess and I'd like to see her Qualifications as a Pilot!!

Any landing you walk away from is a good There was obviously a reason why the PIC made a decision to go in at a faster and steeper rate and the Air hostess is trained for there types of situation (Apparently)

martinsvi

Captain Chaos wrote: »

There is a g limit alarm built in for landings. If the aircraft exceeds this the maintenance crew are notified automatically. This is about 2.5g-3g peak acceleration energy

really? I thought 2.5g is the design limit, but alarms will go off before that?

Not sure about an airbus, but a certain Dash 8 pilot, a friend of mine, was invited for tea and biscuits for 1.7G landing

pfurey101

It is just as well for all that she wasn't on duty should there have ever been an emergency.

ronan45

She made the Daily Mail !

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3313729/Cassandra-Reddin-suing-Aer-Lingus-bumpy-landing-Dublin.html

I could understand if she was standing up..... unsecured out of her seat but i assume she must of been strapped in prepared for landing?"?"?"?"

smurfjed

The airbus threshold for a hard landing is based on potential damage to the plane, people are a lot softer.

Would you be so kind as to quote a regulation for this?

There is a comment from her lawyer about the rate of descent prior to landing, does this statement indicate that data is available or its someones belief that the rate was higher?

Tenger

smurfjed wrote: »

..........................
There is a comment from her lawyer about the rate of descent prior to landing, does this statement indicate that data is available or its someones belief that the rate was higher?

Would be interesting to see if her lawyer has access to the flight data. Because I thought that statement was very definite, you can't really back that up without data.

Locker10a

Tenger wrote: »

Would be interesting to see if her lawyer has access to the flight data. Because I thought that statement was very definite, you can't really back that up without data.

Its certainly interesting, and hopefully we will hear more!
Overall it does sound like a horrible experience, its not everyday lockers pop open and alcohol smash, and it sounds like the passengers were very panicked, I think Ms Reddin may not have received the attention or compensation she thought she should get after the injury and is now suing!

martinsvi

I think the issue here is that she only started feeling pain in the following day. If it was a proper injury, like a contusion or sprain, she would be in pain right away, she would have been brought to hospital to have her checked and condition recorded. You can develop pain overnight by sleeping awkwardly or catching a cold breeze on your neck, that wouldn't classify as an injury.

JCX BXC

ronan45 wrote: »

She made the Daily Mail !

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3313729/Cassandra-Reddin-suing-Aer-Lingus-bumpy-landing-Dublin.html

I could understand if she was standing up..... unsecured out of her seat but i assume she must of been strapped in prepared for landing?"?"?"?"

For once, the comments are fairly good, not the usual hysterical nonsense.

mr_edge_to_you

Thankfully she survived and pulled through.

Shannon757

Tenger wrote: »

Would be interesting to see if her lawyer has access to the flight data. Because I thought that statement was very definite, you can't really back that up without data.

It's says that the rate of decent was 1200 feet per minute

faceman

martinsvi wrote: »

I think the issue here is that she only started feeling pain in the following day. If it was a proper injury, like a contusion or sprain, she would be in pain right away, she would have been brought to hospital to have her checked and condition recorded. You can develop pain overnight by sleeping awkwardly or catching a cold breeze on your neck, that wouldn't classify as an injury.

I'm not commenting in any way on this case with this contribution.

Your statement is incorrect when it comes to certain injuries. I was involved in a motorcycle accident many years ago. I (eventually) got up and walked away. The serious of m my injuries were not apparent till the following day when I woke up being unable to walk on my foot.

The hospital told me the shock and adrenaline concealed the injury at the time.

JCX BXC

But a bumby landing and a motorcycle accident are two very very different types of events?

socstudent

I initially thought what the hell? however someone saw fit to take this case so I wonder if there is something more to it.

I am sure anyone who has ever had a bumpy landing will be watching with interest.

ProfessorPlum

:rolleyes:Indeed. he obvious next step here is for the co pilot to sue the airline as well.

Mebuntu

Things getting even more interesting!!

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/it-was-thescariest-flight-everi-did-not-think-any-of-us-would-be-ok-colleague-of-flight-attendant-suing-aer-lingus-34192213.html

martinsvi

I would really love to hear pilot's side of the story at this point. And I hope it will be revealed why did it took 6 years to put together this case.

Locker10a

This is getting interesting! The accounts of the other crew now lead me to believe this was possibly a violent and frightening landing, but obviously they are not suing! If it's the case that bottles really did break and the senior thought she may need to instruct the pax to brace this paint a picture of a very ugly experience indeed.
This would have surely been recorded by an CSR or ASR by the crew involved which means there will be some record of it with Aer Lingus

Bsal

Seems the weather was crap that day, a Ryanair B738 same day landing RWY16 scrapped an engine nacelle on touchdown. I would guess the Aer Lingus incident was due to windshear in the flare.

Here's the report from the Ryanair incident

http://www.aaiu.ie/sites/default/files/upload/general/13184-REPORT_2011_007-0.PDF

homerjay2005

Jhcx wrote: »

Can the company dismiss her after this. Surely they wouldn't want someone who sues them to be working for them.

But obviously something has brought her to go that far.

she will be so heavily protected by Unions and employment laws and even though everybody would agree she doesnt deserve to work for the company anymore, she probably will either have a job there for life or be paid off.

eitherway, its a sheds a bad light on her. hopefully this is thrown our, she has huge penalties in legal costs and then gets sacked from her job because if i was her manager, i certainly wouldnt want her on my team.

JCX BXC

Problem is what grounds can you sack her on without being strung with unfair dismissal charges? If this woman can take such a non-issue to court I'd imagine she wouldn't hesitate with an unfair dismissal case, where she'd have alot of footing!

jetsonx

I really do hope her case collapses.

It is because of "ladies" like this the ordinary consumer has to pay higher prices for goods and services.

When her "legal counsel" do present her with her bill, that is when her real hard landing is going to happen.