Copyright Issues: Someone is trying to make money with one of your images

leinsterman

It's been a while since I posted here, so please excuse ... but I wanted to get some thoughts on how to handle this one.

I received an email from a complete stranger saying they saw one of my images for sale at the Grand Social Pub Market and online at - http://twisteddesigns.ie/shop/poolbeg-chimneys-2/

On one hand - it is flattering. One the other hand - someone has stolen something of mine and is trying to use it to make money. So I'm a little bit peeved about it ... though I'm sure this is a common enough occurrence.

Clearly it is a relatively trivial matter ... the obvious thing to do is email the owners of the site and ask them to remove it ... but, out of interest, has this ever happened to you? What would/did you handle this situation?

gloobag

I would go straight to a solicitor with this one. It's blatant theft.

It's a really strong image, so they could've made a substantial amount of money from it already.

I wouldn't let this go with a simple "Please remove my image" email.

challengemaster

gloobag wrote: »

It's a really strong image, so they could've made a substantial amount of money from it already.

The fact they have "10 in stock" and that it can be backordered means they're definitely making money from it, particularly at €25 a pop.

Screenshot the page for evidence. Get onto a solicitor and send them a bill for about €5,000 for copyright infringement on a commercial level.

NeVeR

how did they get the image ?

do you store high res images online ?

DaireQuinlan

Their 'Phoenix park dublin' that was 'created by our
in-house graphic designer' is stock with some text added at the bottom. The Batman Penguin print is originally by a guy named 'Simon C Page', they may have licensed it I guess, to give them the benefit of the doubt...

NeVeR

I don't thing anything on that site is licensed.. the site is a template you can buy online.. nothing unique or professional about it.

So little content on the site. social links don't work.. most links link to there store..

leinsterman

I have assigned rights to use this image (and another of Poolbeg) before; this was to an architectural company called Urban Agency who used it as part of a campaign the save the chimneys in the Sunday Times. I didn't charge ... but then again they had the decency to request my permission first. I didn't charge them for it.

They used it to create a derivative image mocking up their idea here.

However in this case I definitely didn't license anything ... I'm not convinced approaching a solicitor will result in anything but a lot of cost and hassle for very little ... sadly our legal system is geared around solicitors making money and has nothing to do with anyone getting justice! Unless of course someone knows of one that works on a no win no fee basis for stuff like this?? ... or maybe there is the small claims court; I suppose.

There are some high resolution version online at Pix.ie (leinsterman), FLickr and my own site. But in all cases the copyright is clear.

I've examined the exif of the image on this site but it has been stripped of the data. The original photo exif has clear indication of copyright ownership, camera, lens etc. Indeed it is a cropped image ... the original was not so well composed. I'm the only person who has access to the original unprocessed RAW file ... so I have plenty of evidence about who owns the photo.

leinsterman

Side question - I can't seem to access Pix.ie ... is the site still working?

NeVeR

leinsterman wrote: »

Side question - I can't seem to access Pix.ie ... is the site still working?

appears down to me... server errors.. there database seems f**ked.

challengemaster

leinsterman wrote: »

However in this case I definitely didn't license anything ... I'm not convinced approaching a solicitor will result in anything but a lot of cost and hassle for very little ... sadly our legal system is geared around solicitors making money and has nothing to do with anyone getting justice! Unless of course someone knows of one that works on a no win no fee basis for stuff like this?? ... or maybe there is the small claims court; I suppose.
.

Small claims court might work if you want to settle for €2000.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/scottish-theatre-company-fined-for-using-dylan-thomas-photo-1.2420332

Scottish non-profit ordered by dublin district court to pay €1,500 for breaching copyright of an Irish owned image - and that had limited impact and wasn't for commercial use. Any solicitor worth their salt should be able to net a few grand.


BTW - While there's limited details on their website, a quick whois will net you all the details of the owner. Pop the URL into the website below.

http://www.whoislookup.ie/

leinsterman

challengemaster wrote: »

Any solicitor worth their salt should be able to net a few grand.http://www.whoislookup.ie/

Are you saying that you think a solicitor would be able to net a few grand to me if I took an action?

Interesting ... I never really considered going legal because of the hassle and cost factors ... my guess is the infringer in this case may not have means to pay anyway ... they operate a stall at the Grand Social Market ... where they are apparently selling my image amongst others ... I may pop along on Saturday to see for myself.

Paulw

challengemaster wrote: »

Small claims court might work if you want to settle for €2000.

Small Claims Court won't work for breach of copyright.

You need to see a solicitor. Many will meet you for free for the consultation.

There are a good number of cases where the judgement is for breach of copyright, and you will likely be awarded costs too.

Check your camera insurance policy too. Some include legal fees for such issues. So, you may not have to pay any legal fees.

I think you should definitely consult a solicitor and get what you deserve for this.

Kenny Logins

DaireQuinlan wrote: »

Their 'Phoenix park dublin' that was 'created by our
in-house graphic designer' is stock with some text added at the bottom. .

I see it listed on loads of other sites as Asian Sunrise.

leinsterman

Interesting ... the image has already been removed from the site. Makes me wonder if the offending person is looking at this thread!

Too late ... I have a screenshot.

magicbastarder

as is the batman print too...

leinsterman

Owner of the site has been in touch to confirm he has removed the image from his site and deleted the hard copy ... now way to double check this .. but I've invited him to propose a commission based share of profits with appropriate attribution if he want to continue using it.

I work in the IP licensing industry; including for some of the world's largest IP licensing companies ... so he just got a little unlucky with this one. :rolleyes:

magicbastarder

Is he or she willing to explain how our why he came by the image? And the other image(s) which have been hastily removed from the site?

leinsterman

magicbastarder wrote: »

Is he or she willing to explain how our why he came by the image? And the other image(s) which have been hastily removed from the site?

They did offer an explanation ... but who wouldn't in such a situation? ... as to whether it is the truth or not ... who knows?

They acted quickly to put it right and for me that's reasonable. So for now at least I'm choosing to take them at face value; despite the sins of the past.

I may still get someone to pop by the stall at some point in the future to see if the image is still for sale there ... apparently it was staffed by a lady last weekend ... but the owner of the site is a male. So my guess is she would be none the wiser about ownership of the image.

Lets face it ... stealing IP belonging to others is not unusual in the internet age ... whether it be images, music, movies, software, graphics ... etc.

ScumLord

Paulw wrote: »

There are a good number of cases where the judgement is for breach of copyright, and you will likely be awarded costs too.

Check your camera insurance policy too. Some include legal fees for such issues. So, you may not have to pay any legal fees.

I think you should definitely consult a solicitor and get what you deserve for this.

Get the solicitor to give an upfront quote too, and tell them you want an itemised bill at the end.

leinsterman

I was in the process of negotiating a royalty rate and credit to allow the image to go back up on the seller's site ... but after hearing almost the excuse being offered to another image copyright holder from the site's owner for the breach I'm not so sure ...

I'm my case the excuse rang -

Twisteddesigns wrote:

I'm sorry for this misunderstanding, I had this image submitted to me from a friend and I was under the impression that he took the shot himself, I spoke to him and he informed me that he found it on the Internet.

In the case of the other copyright holder the excuse offered was along the lines of "the designer came to me to put the image on the site" ...

Sounds quite similar ... along the lines of the old pearl "the dog ate my homework" ....

So I think I'll pass on this one ...

I will be keeping an eye on the site to see if there are any more infringements ...

Paulw

You're too easy going on them.

leinsterman

Paulw wrote: »

You're too easy going on them.

Actually Paul ... I'm going easy on me ... not really worth the hassle once the image has been removed ... :rolleyes:

challengemaster

leinsterman wrote: »

Actually Paul ... I'm going easy on me ... not really worth the hassle once the image has been removed ... :rolleyes:

Someone who:

• instantly removed the images once a thread on boards popped up mentioning copyright infringement (money)
  
• has already had at least 10 prints made, who knows sales records - and no mention of retrospective compensation?
  
• is obviously lying to you about how they got your images to sell

Personally I'd ensure they were bent over with no lube provided! :pac: You're being way too easy on them.

SeySparks

I have checked the company name and they are registered on the Navan Road. Dunard Rd.

This is a matter for the High Court.

You can seek an injunction and damages for breach of copyright and passing off - the individual company owners can be sued in a personal capacity as they do not appear to be a Limited Liability Company.

It may be possible to register any Judgement as a Judgement mortgage on any property they may own to satisfy the Judgement.

This is a civil matter - it is fraud and therefore it is, as I say again, a matter for the High Court. It is a criminal offence.

I would urge any of the affected parties above to act accordingly so as to avoid this sort of thing from ever happening again.

This company is listed on the CRO. I suggest starting from there with your respective solicitors.

magicbastarder

SeySparks wrote: »

This is a civil matter - it is fraud and therefore it is, as I say again, a matter for the High Court. It is a criminal offence.

Is it a civil or criminal matter?

leinsterman

SeySparks wrote: »

This is a matter for the High Court.

I don't think my images are that valuable that they would take up High Court time ...

In any case ... legal proceedings are costly, contain an element of risk, take forever and cause a lot of pain for both the Plaintiff and the Defendant ... I know this from professional experience working with an IP licensing company ... it is just not worth it for something of this scale ...

SeySparks

magicbastarder wrote: »

Is it a civil or criminal matter?

It is currently a civil matter. And given all of the points made above (under copyright, IP law, misrepresentation, profiting from another's work etc) almost certainly a criminal offence - given ALL of the points indicated in the posts in the thread above.

I think it's probably a wise idea to get this 'male's' name as I said before and shut him down completely.

Effects

"Our designs are fast becoming the must have on the Dublin hipster scene."

They sound like a couple of suits looking to make easy money by deliberately stealing creatives work.

magicbastarder

check out the glaring similarities between these two prints.

http://twisteddesigns.ie/shop/hapenny-bridge/
http://jamartprints.com/?product=hapenny-bridge-dublin

the text is identical, the viewpoint is almost identical, they both have a bird perched on the bridge, and the yellow glowing lights are very similar. however, jam art studios have at least credited a designer, and don't have a history of accidentally appropriating other peoples work (that i am aware of).

pullandbang

magicbastarder wrote: »

check out the glaring similarities between these two prints.

Huh? They're two completely different artworks. Different perspective, different fonts, different colours, different wording etc.

Effects

magicbastarder wrote: »

check out the glaring similarities between these two prints..

I think with that print it might just be a simple case of common theme and lazier design.
Sure it's actually more similar to this one:
http://dublinposter.com/hapenny/

magicbastarder

cutout style images of the bridge are easy enough to find, but the bird and the wording are unique to those two.

put it this way - if i was the designer of the first (whichever one it was), i'd be pissed off if i saw the second.

leinsterman

Interesting ... so the website that was selling my image (without permission) has removed it ... but replaced it with another image of the Same subject - Poolbeg

... I'll be keeping an eye of this site and the offending market stall ... and not for the art!!!

magicbastarder

that's not exactly a well designed image they're selling.

DaireQuinlan

magicbastarder wrote: »

that's not exactly a well designed image they're selling.

Also the birds are just lifted from their 'Phoenix Park Sunset' which is just a bit of vector clip art stock with some text added.

Kenny Logins

magicbastarder wrote: »

that's not exactly a well designed image they're selling.

Would be a decent effort on an Etch-a-sketch.

rayfitzharris

Kenny Logins wrote: »

Would be a decent effort on an Etch-a-sketch.

Looks very close to this one.. With added birds and a click of the colour dropper

http://jamartfactory.com/?p=1520

magicbastarder

both €25. i know which i'd buy.

stronglikebull

leinsterman wrote: »

Interesting ... so the website that was selling my image (without permission) has removed it ... but replaced it with another image of the Same subject - Poolbeg

... I'll be keeping an eye of this site and the offending market stall ... and not for the art!!!

€25 for a crappy clipart sketch? That's madness. Anyone that pays that deserves to be ripped off.

InTheTrees

SeySparks wrote: »

I have checked the company name and they are registered on the Navan Road. Dunard Rd.

This is a matter for the High Court.

You can seek an injunction and damages for breach of copyright and passing off - the individual company owners can be sued in a personal capacity as they do not appear to be a Limited Liability Company.

It may be possible to register any Judgement as a Judgement mortgage on any property they may own to satisfy the Judgement.

This is a civil matter - it is fraud and therefore it is, as I say again, a matter for the High Court. It is a criminal offence.

I would urge any of the affected parties above to act accordingly so as to avoid this sort of thing from ever happening again.

This company is listed on the CRO. I suggest starting from there with your respective solicitors.

I'm no expert but I've been selling artwork online for awhile.

The first thing you have to do is send a legally worded "Cease and Desist" letter.

Usually the offender will pay attention to that.

Taking it any further will incur major expense (how would you start to audit their accounts?), especially if they promptly removed it after being notified.