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Better late than never

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,883 ✭✭✭Younganne


    Late to the party here but well done on a great report, loved reading it, great pacing and well deserved PB. Onwards Denis, the strength is there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,199 ✭✭✭denis b


    chickey2 wrote: »
    Great stuff!
    There seems to be similar stories from followers of the Hanson plans, tiredness during training but feeling strong in the last half of the race and keeping up a nice even pace.

    I was warned about the tiredness but feeling it late in each of the weekday SOS sessions was pretty tough. I may have pushed too hard at times. But hey C, it has proven itself :).
    Great run.. Fantastic to read. Chopping through the field with confidence. Lovely stuff. Well done on the big pb

    Cheers Swash. The chopping bit, I did not expect and especially so with the wind. But, the will and strength was there to push on and so I did. Thanks.
    OOnegative wrote: »
    Nicely done D, great racing and strong the whole way through, throughly deserved after your training block.

    Thanks B and have to say that your log and run descriptions always give me food for thought.....and action. Sign that cast for me and hope the patient, and parents, are recovering well.
    Murph_D wrote: »
    I’m delighted with this outcome, D - your training deserved that kind of result - and maybe more important than the result, that kind of feeling during a race, especially the second half. Very well done! A poster boy for the 21-week Hanson cycle. :)

    Well D.....Thank You. Hanson is all yours, and you recommended it more than once. It gave the structure I needed but I may soften it next time and just do the 18 weeks :D. The very small addition I will keep in mind for this plan is to increase the taper by a few days. Perhaps being older, or whatever, necessitated it. I do not think that I had recovered enough for Bohermeen but I will never know for sure. What I can say is that the 2nd half of the race was run with confidence and comfort of sorts. Perhaps they go hand in hand.Thanks again for everything.
    skyblue46 wrote: »
    Huge congratulations D. Great report and race. Hard to believe you had lost some motivation mid block. Well done on coming through that.

    Thanks Sean. I certainly got a lift with this race. I don't think I did myself any favours adding in 2 extra weeks and when I got to the point that I was repeating weeks it just took the gas out of the system. That is probably only a part of it but lesson learnt. Enjoying your Raheny 2 milers in particular.
    Great running D. Love the way you paced that.

    Cheers. It got me to the halfway point and then it was easier to run home than walk :D. Pace management certainly helps me and is an important cog in this particular machine.
    diego_b wrote: »
    Great job D, and congrats on the big pb. Thinking of doing a proper plan for Charleville HM and I have the Hanson's book so you've giving me ideas!
    I can emphasis a bit with the thoughts of the pain to come in a race...I just try to block it out and just get on with it....then the pace sneaks up anyways without me worrying too much about it.

    So true D. And for once the pain melted away when it might normally kick in . Have been practising some relaxation techniques (Visualisation) when training which also help.
    Singer wrote: »
    Nice PB, well run and well reported (as ever)! Interesting that you had pre-race doubts given how well the training looked on the other side of Strava etc. Maybe a shorter plan or incremental series of races would help keep the focus and motivation, and help dissipate the fear of race pain?

    Absolutely B. 2-3 weeks shorter next time and more importantly I will build on this foundation and will certainly race a lot more!!!
    Well done, Denis, and very well-deserved. I hear you on the motivation, it can be hard to keep it going week after week and that's been quite high mileage on your plan.

    If moving up to Ultras then it'd probably make sense to include long hikes for the time-on-feet and that might break things up a bit. But take it easy for a few weeks first :)

    Whoops. Well I had a 6 day break and went at it again. Thanks Mary and I have the tent at the ready to hit the hills again. That is the direction I am going to push on with so they certainly go hand in hand.
    Younganne wrote: »
    Late to the party here but well done on a great report, loved reading it, great pacing and well deserved PB. Onwards Denis, the strength is there.

    Thanks Anne....now I know what Myrtl is :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,199 ✭✭✭denis b


    Wed 20th March
    8 kms Easy at 5:48 and HR 141

    On my favourite local loop. One Park, one easy longish hill and one Tree Lined Avenue.

    Friday 22nd March
    8 Kms Easy at 5:41/km.

    Favourite local loop in reverse. Race Plan decided.

    Saturday 23rd March

    Maurice Mullins Half Ultra (25kms)
    An IMRA race which starts in Ballinastoe Woods near Roundwood and finished in Glencullen. The route follows The Wicklow Way for almost all its length and takes in around 850m of climbing with a deep "M" profile - Mountain-Valley-Mountain-Valley. Whilst there were 2 manned water points the general idea is to get yourself around with your own resources, so there is the added incentive to look after yourself because help will not be close at hand (other competitors apart).

    Standing there in Ballinastoe watching the ultra racers reach their half way point, and turn, the first thing I noticed was that their runners were remarkably clean!!! Pristine even. There was a cool gentle breeze and with 3 mins to go the jacket came off. Shorts and RTL T-shirt was the way to go for me. Standing right at the back we were whistled off and the group trundled slowly uphill through the woods. This was good.

    I was happy to break into this race nice and gentle and try and save the legs on the first 5 kms uphill. Through a series of forest roads which brought us out onto the hillside above Luggalla. Breathing was heavy but manageable and I felt fine taking in what water I could as I continued to climb to the blue sky above. It was 6 days since Mullingar HM, but this race (experience) was to be my starting point for some trail running this year. The idea was to use this race on tired legs to see how I could function in longer trail events.

    Leaving the wooden sleepers on the shoulder of Djouce the racing starts in earnest as the next 8 kms see a 500m fall over 8 kms. First a technical section on a small muddy trail over rocks, heather and other competitors and then 2 kms fast downhill on grass and trail before a short steep section to the Dargle River. I could feel my hamstrings tightening up significantly on the grass section but if you try and slow down then your quads tighten from the braking action. Nothing for it but to fly downhill trying to keep the tears out of your eyes from the wind and watching where you think your feet might land. Brilliant and whoops of joy from those around full of energy.

    Then the Dargle and a steep 100m climb. And this is where the overtaking began to happen in earnest before letting loose on the next downhill section to the Glencreee River and improving paths. I almost got to HM pace through the forest and was able to skip the first water station with a platypus on my back. The legs were fine on the downhill, much as I expected they might be but they were tenderising nicely for later in the race. Last year I hit a bad patch along the river bank section of the Glencree River but today was to be different. I managed to keep running along this river section and it was easy to overtake on the braided trail, and not a Coypu in sight.

    A steep ascent to the Curtlestown Woods marks the 2 stage ascent of about 370m to Prince Williams Seat. Tough going on steep ground through the woods but passed 30 odd competitors as I managed to walk/jog over the first short section. It was getting warm and now it was only a matter of moving as best you can managing your energy levels with the course ahead in mind. Tried a chocolate snack bar but could only take a bite as it would not digest. More water and more again and again. That helped. Head up and get as much air in as possible and concentrate on who is next ahead.

    That is the charm of this event. You encourage and are encouraged by most and no more so than by the volunteers standing out all day to revive us and push us on home. Brilliant.

    The second stage of this climb involves a long haul of 220m over about 3 kms. Late in the race, people falter but move on slowly but resolutely intent on finishing and catching yer man/wan. Imagined mortal enemies recruited to stay in the race punishable by defeat ( 170th v 171st :rolleyes:). Still, it works.

    As we get to the crest the narrow path closes in on boulders arranged to help with footing. But heavy legs struggle to match the uneven vertical steps and runners stop and breathe heavily only to be greeted and encouraged by Eoin Keith (of The Spine Race - google it - truly incredible) who is travelling in the opposite direction heading to Waterford for supper, probably!.

    We summited tired and look longingly down into Glencullen Valley 5 kms distant. These are the winner kms....fast, committing, downhill and all on tired legs. I broke my HM pace for over 2 kms and got close for another 2kms. God/Allah/Buddha/Nature bless Hanson. My legs stood firm to the challenge and matched my dream run finish. Just a hard push up the other valley side saw us finish on a last km along the road to the GAA fields.

    And that was it...2:53:29 officially and a 12 min 6 sec PB with +173% and 113th place. All significant improvements and something to be worked on over the next year. Whilst DCM is ahead I have a few more half/marathon trail runs and an ultra in mind to finish the year. It is a new experience but I am going to also work on pace as well so will also run in a variety of races for fun over the spring/summer. So looking forward to it all.

    Enjoy your running.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,044 ✭✭✭chickey2


    Great report, I really enjoyed that. It sounds like a great race.


  • Registered Users Posts: 375 ✭✭tbukela


    Well done, nice improvement. Really good read, I've signed up for Ballyhoura so really interesting reading.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,415 ✭✭✭Singer


    Delighted you had a great race. It sounds like a lot of fun, one for my bucket list...


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,367 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Another excellent outing! You make this kind of race sound very appealing indeed - super report. It seems like a no-brainer for you to do more of this kind of running given your hiking and mountain expertise. Terrific progress too!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,968 ✭✭✭aquinn


    Fantastic Denis. I can't believe you did the trail run after your HM PB. Congratulations.

    You'll love a trail ultra.

    I can't believe you couldn't eat a snack bar, not a delicious yellow one? so weird.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,199 ✭✭✭denis b


    chickey2 wrote: »
    Great report, I really enjoyed that. It sounds like a great race.

    Thanks C. And I still have my eye on a traverse of the Dublin Mountain Way during the summer.
    tbukela wrote: »
    Well done, nice improvement. Really good read, I've signed up for Ballyhoura so really interesting reading.

    Ballyhoura was on my list but work means that I will miss it this year. Looks to me like it is a great event and perfect for dipping your toes into something new.
    Singer wrote: »
    Delighted you had a great race. It sounds like a lot of fun, one for my bucket list...

    You have it Brian. Great fun, as you know with these IMRA events. Cheers
    Murph_D wrote: »
    Another excellent outing! You make this kind of race sound very appealing indeed - super report. It seems like a no-brainer for you to do more of this kind of running given your hiking and mountain expertise. Terrific progress too!

    My first ULTRA training book is winging its way to me as I type. Just have to try one or two. It seems irresistible to me in recent times. Gotta try it so!.
    aquinn wrote: »
    Fantastic Denis. I can't believe you did the trail run after your HM PB. Congratulations.

    You'll love a trail ultra.

    I can't believe you couldn't eat a snack bar, not a delicious yellow one? so weird.

    DCM and then will aim for a winter ULTRA 2019/2020, all going well. Will take this block of training and use it to jump to marathon and straight on to ultra.

    Confession: The snack was not a Snack - a pale (Aldi) imitation that needs a cuppa to enliven it. Having said that I don't think a Snack has been a Snack for many years either. Still like them all the same.


  • Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭Sharkey47


    Denis, I have been waiting for you to say you have joined Raheny but it hasn't happened yet. Are you not tempted?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,044 ✭✭✭chickey2


    Just found this so thought I'd leave it here!
    https://www.rawultra.com/dublin-mountain-marathon


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,199 ✭✭✭denis b


    Sharkey47 wrote: »
    Denis, I have been waiting for you to say you have joined Raheny but it hasn't happened yet. Are you not tempted?

    Sure have F. There are lots of If's and But's with other commitments. On balance it would be a good thing to do, no doubt about that. You have me thinking again :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,199 ✭✭✭denis b


    chickey2 wrote: »
    Just found this so thought I'd leave it here!
    https://www.rawultra.com/dublin-mountain-marathon

    Thanks C. Saw that and think it might be a tad early for me. I could do it in early May and finish it ok. I have 3 more weeks building the mileage back up, post HM race, to where I was at which means that I will not have enough long runs and very little hill specific work done. I got away with the hills on the Mullins Half Ultra as I was carrying lots of plusses from the HM cycle.

    I am going to do that course on my own in July, as a training run. Meanwhile I am nursing a strange knee injury (not too serious, I think) and am due at the physio tomorrow.

    I see that your own training runs are progressing nicely.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭hillsiderunner


    Getting to your report very late, but it is worth the wait. A brilliant read and there was some excellent tactical running done there too. Must have been very rewarding to get the PB.

    (though *very* unwise to be doing 6days after a HM :rolleyes:)

    Reading through the report I'm wondering how it compares against RunTheLine from a terrain perspective? It's more or less the same distance and overall ascent. I found a course profile on Strava and can see it's kind of two big climbs as opposed to RtL broken into 4, but wonder how it compares in terms of bouldery-ness, gorse content etc ...


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,199 ✭✭✭denis b


    Getting to your report very late, but it is worth the wait. A brilliant read and there was some excellent tactical running done there too. Must have been very rewarding to get the PB.

    (though *very* unwise to be doing 6days after a HM :rolleyes:)

    Reading through the report I'm wondering how it compares against RunTheLine from a terrain perspective? It's more or less the same distance and overall ascent. I found a course profile on Strava and can see it's kind of two big climbs as opposed to RtL broken into 4, but wonder how it compares in terms of bouldery-ness, gorse content etc ...

    * very unwise...yes...even quite bold :eek:. It was my reward for all the training to be honest Mary. So much of the visualisation from December onwards seemed to shift towards the Mullins Race and yet to be honest the HM was my number one goal. A bit of ambivalence methinks. Anyway I did behave and managed to participate in Mullins without any injury and held back from anything too drastic for the first section. It saved my quads from any real damage. My number one priority was to get some experience and get around and have a blast. I did.

    Mullins is far less technical with good quality forest trails and The Boardwalk covering most of the run. The only technical section is really on the initial descent off the boardwalk and down the top slope from the WW off the shoulder of Djouce and again the descent to the Dargle. The climb sections are undoubtedly a lot longer and the double pull from the Glencreee River to Prince Williams Seat is a deal breaker for lots...I am no fell runner but passed at least 40 people on this late section in the race.

    RTL...I found it to be a far more varied course with gorse and tree bashing, steep rugged broken paths in parts and a fair amount of decent trail but you need to have your wits about you (protruding stones). Can be hard to overtake, or be overtaken on RTL in parts but there are sections with forest service roads for about 8 kms(?). Weather has been a little less kind in November rather than April in the last 2 years but that is lap of the gods stuff...as you know.

    Think you would really enjoy it Mary and I am aiming to give the full Ultra a go next year.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭hillsiderunner


    denis b wrote: »
    Think you would really enjoy it Mary and I am aiming to give the full Ultra a go next year.

    I think I would too! Especially as it sounds like it has fewer bouldery sections. Would not be sure about the ultra but the 16miles should be within my grasp if everything runs smoothly as I increase the mileage.

    Sure if I could run back-to-back races and not get injured, I'd be doing it too :rolleyes:. Your controlled effort might even have helped with the pacing on the day.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,199 ✭✭✭denis b


    Hi Folks,


    Not too much evidence of running on this log but am still at it on Strava with Boards. A very sincere thank you for the kind memory to Ronan, who we lost 3 years ago, and which was received just before Christmas. It was a lovely gesture.

    I am aiming for the Cheviot Goat Race in Dec 2020 so that will keep me honest and interested for the next year. Enjoy your running folks and hope to see ye out there over the next year.

    Happy Christmas and New Year.


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