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Rent and housing measures to go before Cabinet

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    #2
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,978 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Del007 wrote: »
    Does anyone know if these come into effect then would be be immediate?

    Its likely each component would be commenced separately. The two year rent review would have to be immediate to be of any use - even then, landlords who haven't had a review in the past two years will likely do one immediately. Some of the other bits in relation to building could easily be sat on and never commenced or at least held off until after an election.


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    #3
    Del007
    Registered Users Posts: 1,590 ✭✭✭Del007


    My rent was put up last year and now the landlord wants to put it up again. Does this mean that they don't have the right to do so until next year?

    Any idea when they will officially announce this?


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    #4
    MayBea
    Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭MayBea


    We should probably expect some lag in implementation (... and subsequent rent hikes before it commences).


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    #5
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,978 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Del007 wrote: »
    My rent was put up last year and now the landlord wants to put it up again. Does this mean that they don't have the right to do so until next year?

    If you're already over a year since the last and they've already asked I suspect its too late for anything to push it out.


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    #6
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 7,223 Mod ✭✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    Del007 wrote: »
    My rent was put up last year and now the landlord wants to put it up again. Does this mean that they don't have the right to do so until next year?

    Any idea when they will officially announce this?

    They had a guy from Threshold on Newstalk this morning. He said if they don't want landlords taking advantage in the meantime, they should get it in in a week.

    Realistically though, a lot of landlords will be following this and putting the rent up over the next week for anyone who hasn't had an increase in the last year.

    He was also a bit light on the facts. He suggested that people should bring a dispute to the PRTB if they feel the landlord is front loading increases to the rent without mentioning whether the increase was in line with market rates or not. I don't have a lot of time for Threshold after hearing they advised people to overhold when the landlord gave them valid notices of termination.

    The other measure put forward is increasing the tax deductible against mortgage interest from 75% to 100% for any landlord with a tenant on rent supplement. Seeing as the rent supplement is so far below market rent I don't see it having any effect on landlords taking rent supplement tenants.


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    #7
    Del007
    Registered Users Posts: 1,590 ✭✭✭Del007


    Thanks for your replies.

    The landlord is stating that the rent increase is due on 1st of December 2015. I've tried to negotiate with them but they have only budged a little bit. Can I hold off and wait until this agreement comes into effect?


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    #8
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,978 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Del007 wrote: »
    Thanks for your replies.

    The landlord is stating that the rent increase is due on 1st of December 2015. I've tried to negotiate with them but they have only budged a little bit. Can I hold off and wait until this agreement comes into effect?

    I would expect not.


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    #9
    Mr McBoatface
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,579 ✭✭✭Mr McBoatface


    Details are a bit low at the moment but I can see this making things worse for families renting ..... IF the increase is limited to every two years per tenancy surely a lot of landlords especially in high demand areas will not renew a tenancy after the first 12 months ????


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    #10
    Del007
    Registered Users Posts: 1,590 ✭✭✭Del007


    L1011 wrote: »
    I would expect not.

    If it's been less than 2 years since a rent increase then why not?


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    #11
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,978 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Del007 wrote: »
    If it's been less than 2 years since a rent increase then why not?

    Because its already over a year and the review has already happened.


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    #12
    the groutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,096 ✭✭✭✭the groutch


    all this will do is kick the can down the road a bit.
    you'll have a significant number of landlords exiting the market, restricting supply.
    then in two years time tenants will be faced with huge increases, which the remaining landlords know they can get away with due to limited supply.


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    #13
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 7,223 Mod ✭✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    jobyrne30 wrote: »
    Details are a bit low at the moment but I can see this making things worse for families renting ..... IF the increase is limited to every two years per tenancy surely a lot of landlords especially in high demand areas will not renew a tenancy after the first 12 months ????

    You get part 4 tenancy rights after 6 months though. The landlord can't just kick out a tenant after 12 months without applying the reasons within the RTA2004.


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    #14
    Del007
    Registered Users Posts: 1,590 ✭✭✭Del007


    L1011 wrote: »
    Because its already over a year and the review has already happened.

    The landlord has sent a review but it has not been agreed upon. It seems to be a grey area which is all too common in this country


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    #15
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,978 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Del007 wrote: »
    The landlord has sent a review but it has not been agreed upon. It seems to be a grey area which is all too common in this country

    You've not referred it to the PRTB and you've a date set for the first higher payment - that's pretty much agreed upon.


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    #16
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 7,223 Mod ✭✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    Del007 wrote: »
    The landlord has sent a review but it has not been agreed upon. It seems to be a grey area which is all too common in this country

    These proposals aren't part of law yet. The landlord has sent a valid review under the current law. There's no way the new law will be retroactive to already in process reviews.


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    #17
    Del007
    Registered Users Posts: 1,590 ✭✭✭Del007


    L1011 wrote: »
    You've not referred it to the PRTB and you've a date set for the first higher payment - that's pretty much agreed upon.

    I have 28 days to refer it to the PRTB, that date has not yet passed. Correct me if I'm wrong though


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    #18
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 7,223 Mod ✭✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    Del007 wrote: »
    I have 28 days to refer it to the PRTB, that date has not yet passed. Correct me if I'm wrong though

    The rent review predates the introduction to law of the new proposals. When you refer it to the PRTB is not the relevant date.


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    #19
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,978 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Del007 wrote: »
    I have 28 days to refer it to the PRTB, that date has not yet passed. Correct me if I'm wrong though

    Referring to the PRTB doesn't stop you having to pay the higher rent until such time as they (possibly) judge it to be an above market rate increase though.

    There's some clutching at straws here. Your rent review has already happened.


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    #20
    Del007
    Registered Users Posts: 1,590 ✭✭✭Del007


    Cheers for all your replies, it's much appreciated.

    I'll hand on until Tuesday and see what's announced, you never know what will happen


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    #21
    Lux23
    Registered Users Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    I think the two year thing could stop some landlords from gouging their tenants. I have a friend who lives in Victorian cottages attached to a college in Dublin city centre. There is no mortgage associated with the buildings and the rent is pure profit for the company that own the buildings but they are putting the rent up 25% every year. In the area there would be two bedroom new build apartments going for over €2,000 a month so the PRTB say they are within their rights despite the buildings being much older and very expensive to heat in the winter months.


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    #22
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    Lux23 wrote: »
    I think the two year thing could stop some landlords from gouging their tenants. I have a friend who lives in Victorian cottages attached to a college in Dublin city centre. There is no mortgage associated with the buildings and the rent is pure profit for the company that own the buildings but they are putting the rent up 25% every year. In the area there would be two bedroom new build apartments going for over €2,000 a month so the PRTB say they are within their rights despite the buildings being much older and very expensive to heat in the winter months.

    Tenants dont have to live there if they are not happy


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    #23
    Lux23
    Registered Users Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    handlemaster wrote: »
    Tenants dont have to live there if they are not happy

    Of course not, but is there any real reason for a landlord to increase rent by 25% if the cost base is remaining the same? Other than profiteering of course.


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    #24
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 7,223 Mod ✭✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    Lux23 wrote: »
    Of course not, but is there any real reason for a landlord to increase rent by 25% if the cost base is remaining the same? Other than profiteering of course.

    Why should they not increase it? How do you know the cost base is the same? Older places require more maintenance and while the market is buoyant is the perfect time to be topping up a sinking fund for an eventuality of repairs.


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    #25
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    Lux23 wrote: »
    Of course not, but is there any real reason for a landlord to increase rent by 25% if the cost base is remaining the same? Other than profiteering of course.

    How do you know what the cost basis is ? What difference does it make. With that logic the landlords with massive mortgage payments from buying in the boom times should be allowed to increase rents beyond market rate.


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    #26
    Gasherbraun
    Registered Users Posts: 312 ✭✭Gasherbraun


    Lux23 wrote: »
    Of course not, but is there any real reason for a landlord to increase rent by 25% if the cost base is remaining the same? Other than profiteering of course.

    In fairness making a profit is what businesses try to do and if profits can be increased then that is what they will do.


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    #27
    A Shaved Duck?
    Registered Users Posts: 1,686 ✭✭✭A Shaved Duck?


    You really have to wonder how the various powers that be come up with these proposals as i see it they have potentially made a situation worse for tenants and are claiming its helping them.

    Landlords with a property coming to market yet to rent will frontload the increase.

    Tenants in a current contract can all but garauntee it wont be renewed so landlords can get new tenants in at the higher rent on a new contract


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    #28
    imitation
    Registered Users Posts: 1,815 ✭✭✭imitation


    Doesnt seem like this will help the situation much, property prices seem to be at the core of the issue, and no government wants to do anything whatso ever to affect them. At least you get an extra years security I suppose, but if you get a huge hike after 2 years you have the same issue.


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    #29
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 7,223 Mod ✭✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    A Shaved Duck? wrote: »
    You really have to wonder how the various powers that be come up with these proposals as i see it they have potentially made a situation worse for tenants and are claiming its helping them.

    Landlords with a property coming to market yet to rent will frontload the increase.

    Tenants in a current contract can all but garauntee it wont be renewed so landlords can get new tenants in at the higher rent on a new contract

    Again, with Part 4 tenancy rights, the landlord can't just kick out current tenants even if a lease runs out unless there's a valid reason in line with the RTA2004.


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    #30
    Lux23
    Registered Users Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »
    Why should they not increase it? How do you know the cost base is the same? Older places require more maintenance and while the market is buoyant is the perfect time to be topping up a sinking fund for an eventuality of repairs.

    I understand the need for a contingency for repairs, however older buildings require more maintenance on behalf of the tenant too. Light bulbs blowing every week, heating bills of over €500 in Winter for what is a small cottage with four rooms in total. And we know that there is no mortgage relating to the building and insurance increases would not account for upping the rent by €400 a month twice in two years. It's blatant profiteering.


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    #31
    Lux23
    Registered Users Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »
    Again, with Part 4 tenancy rights, the landlord can't just kick out current tenants even if a lease runs out unless there's a valid reason in line with the RTA2004.

    I was evicted by two landlords who used the family clause as an excuse, both had new tenants in a few weeks later. If you think tenants are genuinely protected by that then you are really naive. I know that we were asked to leave because we were looking for much needed repairs.


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