Apartment parking charge point?

heliguyheliguy

Has anybody got one? how do you go about getting one?

BoatMad

heliguyheliguy wrote: »

Has anybody got one? how do you go about getting one?

for the esb to install one, I believe you must have a driveway, i.e. the car cannot be in a public space

heliguyheliguy

Not sure how that works but its a privately owned space in a locked underground carpark.
I was just hoping someone had been through the process and could point me in the right direction.

BoatMad

heliguyheliguy wrote: »

Not sure how that works but its a privately owned space in a locked underground carpark.
I was just hoping someone had been through the process and could point me in the right direction.

your situation will be specific to you. for example have you an electricity account and is it feasible to run power from your distribution board to the space in the underground carpark?

in most cases this will be a no. so the next option will be to approach the landlord/management company etc or whoever entity is controlling the parking space. Then you will have to negotiate the method by which you will install the necessary power point, probably purchase the EVSE yourself and work out a way of remunerating whoever for the electricity used ( metered, flat fee etc)

Im involved with this at a workplace and the issues are similar .

Its all very specific and the first thing is to establish who controls the decisions about supplying power to your car space, thats the key issue, the EVSE supply is simple , once you have mains power at the space

cros13

s

heliguyheliguy wrote: »

Not sure how that works but its a privately owned space in a locked underground carpark.
I was just hoping someone had been through the process and could point me in the right direction.

I've done it. Most management company's immediate answer to using or submetering their supply is a flat no, so your only hope is to tap your own supply.

Step 1 in my case was to approach the electrician already contracted by the management company for general maintenance, since they already know the lie of the land and have an existing relationship they are the people to deal with. You'll have to source the chargepoint yourself and explain to them clearly the likely power requirements.

Step 2 was to get a detailed statement of works from the electrician which also specifically addresses the issue of metering and certification of works.

Then you approach the management company with the statement of work attached to your first request. That puts them in a position where they can say yes. If they have any concerns or objections, address them quickly and comprehensively.

BoatMad wrote: »

your situation will be specific to you. for example have you an electricity account and is it feasible to run power from your distribution board to the space in the underground carpark?

In a lot of recent build apartment blocks the meters are located centrally with an isolator before the cable run to the apartment, if the car space is conveniently located to the switch room you can split the power at that isolator, there's an RCBO in most of the EVSEs these days but you can also get a 40A switch fuse for the run to the parking space. Mostly with these underground car parks, the switchroom is underneath the block it serves and the allocated spaces to that block are also clustered around. The biggest issue often isn't technical, it's getting the management company to agree.

BoatMad

The biggest issue often isn't technical, it's getting the management company to agree.

absolutely agree 100%, running the power is often a trivial exercise. I have exactly the same issue, a paralysis of decision simply by being asked to allow the installation of a 16a iec 60309 weatherproof socket on an exterior wall

A 16A socket sounds pretty dangerous compared to dedicated EVSE as the kids can stick nails and such in it and get electrocuted. And why 16A if you are building a 32A EVSE? I thought you did not agree with sub optimal charging solutions.

pwurple

BoatMad wrote: »

for the esb to install one, I believe you must have a driveway, i.e. the car cannot be in a public space

In the case of apartments, the spaces are usually not public, they are owned by the management company.

Permission is required from the management company. It is possible, but you need to do some organisation.

BoatMad

samih wrote: »

A 16A socket sounds pretty dangerous compared to dedicated EVSE as the kids can stick nails and such in it and get electrocuted. And why 16A if you are building a 32A EVSE? I thought you did not agree with sub optimal charging solutions.

The iec60309 16A socket is a simple " Ask" thats my view and thats what Im asking for in work.

as for kids , well its an enclosed private carpark, and IEC sockets are common in marinas, camping sites etc, I dont find kids sticking things in them there either

32A is very difficult to arrange from a standard ring main, without load shedding it leaves the remaining circuit potentially underpowered

IN my own case at home , I am installing a 32a IEC60309 socket on the wall, but I have a load shedding EVSE in prototype form, so I dont have to worry about other unexpected house loads on the circuit.

of course you can supply a EVSE and have the electrician fit it, personally I prefer to have the EVSE removable , but its a small point

electricians are also familiar with iec60309 plugs and sockets ( round blue ones) and are not familiar with EVSEs.

I can imagine that 32 A EVSE at work would make much more sense than a 16 A socket having built-in safety and all but whatever floats your boat. Hope you won't be the only employee/customer that needs to occasionally charge there.

BoatMad

samih wrote: »

I can imagine that 32 A EVSE at work would make much more sense than a 16 A socket having built-in safety and all but whatever floats your boat. Hope you won't be the only employee/customer that needs to occasionally charge there.

installing a 32A socket ( or directly connected EVSE) would require significant modifications to their standard ring main. it would need a direct feed from the three phase board, 500 yards across several walls, new cables to chased into walls etc,

the idea is that an electrician ( doesnt need to be reci) can add a 16A spur to an existing ring main, he cannot add a 32A one.

the socket is protected by the usual RCBO

the evse is then plugged into the socket, ( as I will be supplying that , so its mine )

if anyone else needs charging I propose to split the cost of the EVSE with them. the workplace will not fund an EVSE ( Im doing well to get the socket free)


The workplace is a state body by the way.

its proven very very difficult to get them to engage and I have yet to get formal written approval . so Im not over the hurdles yet

Fundementally they just want me to " go away " and stop asking awkward questions. as of now, no-one even knows how to bill me for the electricity used, we're all sweeping that one under the table, which will be fine until some " colleague" claims the workplace is subsidising my travel to work - OMG

I see, sounds pretty much the same response I got from my workplace. I kept bringing it up every so often since 2013 and then last time they said that they are actually currently installing two dedicated charging bays with some high end EVSE equipment for employees and customers. Go figure.

Good luck with your plans! And don't worry about the ESB charges as it sounds like you'll be able to do pretty much all your charging "for free" going forward. If you can do most of your driving with private charging, the introduced expense for DC charging actually ensures that you have one available for those few times you need it.

BoatMad

Good luck with your plans! And don't worry about the ESB charges as it sounds like you'll be able to do pretty much all your charging "for free" going forward. If you can do most of your driving with private charging, the introduced expense for DC charging actually ensures that you have one available for those few times you need it.

the fact is that the 17 euros is a severe deterrent, primarily because like very many EV owners or potential owners, I want to use the car for a lot more then the twice daily 5 days a week , work commute. I also do quite longs runs on the weekends in the summer ( to a boat , hence the moniker) and therefore I need to have access to the FCP network, The rapids are useless IMHO. Thats means I get or would get trapped in the FCP cost structure.

I suspect the esb know they have us over a barrel, very few EV owners will cut them selves off from the FCP network, even if today they are only occasional usage people .

This is aside from the basic "unfairness" of a pre minute charge , which is utterly ridiculous

on a purely costs basis, a small VW diesel now looks a lot better, sales incentives, less hassle, no worry from the wife, low running costs and a known residual . I worrying that the costs of EV charging will rise uncontrollably . As Ive said before home charging is a technology dead end too, The capacity of the majority of home electricity systems is too low for next generation ( 2018) EVs, then where does that leave us ?>

caster

Sorry for digging up an old thread - but it was the most relevant one to my query.

I rent an apartment - it has an underground car park and I have a dedicated car parking space. I am looking to get a charge point installed - preferrably by the ESB under their scheme but also happy to pay for the charge point and installation if ESB is not a runner. The landlords are actually the development company who built the block (about 2 years ago) - not sure if that's a good or bad thing. My car park space is about 10 metres from the distribution board (but will be more than 10m in terms of wiring) - see pic below, my space is where the black (nearest) car is, distribution board in the right of the pic.

Any suggestions as to the best approach to get an agreement to go ahead? From reading above, it looks like I should get an electrician in to detail the work that's involved and submit that to the landlord/development company?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qfpl7qng7waikdp/20160429_110715.jpg?dl=0

BoatMad

caster wrote: »

Sorry for digging up an old thread - but it was the most relevant one to my query.

I rent an apartment - it has an underground car park and I have a dedicated car parking space. I am looking to get a charge point installed - preferrably by the ESB under their scheme but also happy to pay for the charge point and installation if ESB is not a runner. The landlords are actually the development company who built the block (about 2 years ago) - not sure if that's a good or bad thing. My car park space is about 10 metres from the distribution board (but will be more than 10m in terms of wiring) - see pic below, my space is where the black (nearest) car is, distribution board in the right of the pic.

Any suggestions as to the best approach to get an agreement to go ahead? From reading above, it looks like I should get an electrician in to detail the work that's involved and submit that to the landlord/development company?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qfpl7qng7waikdp/20160429_110715.jpg?dl=0

I would first suggest that you get " an agreement in principle " subject to the provision of suitable electrical specifications and plan of work. This avoids you in expense without the likelihood of a positive agreement,

I would then contact Nigel who is the ecars installation contractor and have a chat as to the next step. He may be prepared to survey it without costs and recommend an approach . ( I have his number and he is very approachable ) His company will also do non ESB work and obviously they are very knowlegable.

based on what you say, it should be a simple install and may actually fall within the ESBs free scheme ( again " talk to Nigel" , as they say )

The issue of metering will have to be handled if the distribution board is generic to many apartments , that can be a difficult nut to crack

caster

BoatMad wrote: »

I would first suggest that you get " an agreement in principle " subject to the provision of suitable electrical specifications and plan of work. This avoids you in expense without the likelihood of a positive agreement,

I would then contact Nigel who is the ecars installation contractor and have a chat as to the next step. He may be prepared to survey it without costs and recommend an approach . ( I have his number and he is very approachable ) His company will also do non ESB work and obviously they are very knowlegable.

based on what you say, it should be a simple install and may actually fall within the ESBs free scheme ( again " talk to Nigel" , as they say )

The issue of metering will have to be handled if the distribution board is generic to many apartments , that can be a difficult nut to crack

Thanks. If you could PM me Nigels contact details that would be great.

I'm guessing metering will be the trickiest thing to get agreement on - but I was hoping that if its wired directly in to my meter, that it shouldn't be an issue (speaking as a guy who doesn't know much about these things!)

BoatMad

caster wrote: »

Thanks. If you could PM me Nigels contact details that would be great.

I'm guessing metering will be the trickiest thing to get agreement on - but I was hoping that if its wired directly in to my meter, that it shouldn't be an issue (speaking as a guy who doesn't know much about these things!)

depends on where your meter is in relation to the car park

pm sent

caster

BoatMad wrote: »

depends on where your meter is in relation to the car park

pm sent

Thanks. My mistake - the meter board is what is in the cabinet (right of picture) - so only 10 metres away.

Pics here (with my meter shown):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vf578i76mrhfhzx/20150819_161723.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bd80uk4sbnvawbu/20150818_123619.jpg?dl=0



So hopefully, it'll be easily doable.

BoatMad

caster wrote: »

Thanks. My mistake - the meter board is what is in the cabinet (right of picture) - so only 10 metres away.

Pics here (with my meter shown):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vf578i76mrhfhzx/20150819_161723.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bd80uk4sbnvawbu/20150818_123619.jpg?dl=0



So hopefully, it'll be easily doable.

yes OK, really all thats needs is management approval in principle, you might find that the ESB will fit it then for free.

as I say

" talk to Nigel"

mrsdewinter

Have many people managed to pull off installing a charge point in an apartment block car park?

Unless you can come up with a way of billing that suits the management company then it's a no go and it probably won't be cheap for you, If you can cable back to your own meter they just "might" agree to this provided you have your own parking space.

If they agree to a communal system then that means they will install xx charge points but everyone will be allowed to use them as everyone paying management fees will be allowed to use them and they're not going to install charge points for everyone.

A communal system means management fees will go up and I doubt many would agree to this particularly when a lot of apartment owners/renters may not own a car.

If you live close to a AC or DC point then you might find that 20-30 mins charging might be sufficient for a few days or even more depending on the amount of Kms you drive but you risk having to queue and if you need to go somewhere then you could find yourself waiting for someone to charge who arrived at the charger before you.

You also have the option of a BMW i3 Rex , the Rex is a generator and will keep you going as long as you got petrol in it's 8 litre tank. I have the 33 Kwh i3 rex and it's brilliant. I can charge if I want or not, I'm not dependent on the public network but the Rex isn't supposed to be your primary means of power but it means if a charger is in use you can move on to another or drive on until you find an available charge point.

goz83

If your electric meter is near your parking spot, you have a chance of having a charge point installed. Then you need to have a suitable mounting point, which could be the ceiling, wall, or support post. The Gov really need to get their finger out on this one. Start by talking to your local TDs.

+ if someone in the management company is an ass and likes to feel "powerful" then they could deem the charge point a trip hazard and prevent it being installed.

But, usually the management company won't agree to anything or allow you do anything based on my Brother's experience.

Oh and if you got a designated parking space but don't own it which if I remember was my brothers situation then they said to him that they can't have a parking space taken up which is ridiculous because it's just trading one for another and will still be used.

bk

Deleted User wrote: »

But, usually the management company won't agree to anything or allow you do anything based on my Brother's experience.

If that is the case, then your brother needs to join the management company as a director and have the management agency * replaced

I've gotten our management company and agency to do lots of work around the apartment, Virgin/UPC installed, Sky installed, etc.

The management agency and company are regularly in contact looking for ideas to improve the building.

* In case the terminology isn't clear. The management company normally consists of all the owners of the apartments in the building and is headed by a few elected directors who are normally also owners.

The management agency is the company that is then hired to look after the day to day running of the building, but can be replaced by the management company at any time.

Not all management companies and agencies are bad.

But the problem is that someone has to pay for it and not everyone will agree when probably few if any are EV owners and a lot may not even own a car.

bk

Deleted User wrote: »

But the problem is that someone has to pay for it and not everyone will agree when probably few if any are EV owners and a lot may not even own a car.

It completely depends on the building. In my building and many buildings you have a dedicated space (And I actually own it) and thus I'd be only installing it for myself and at my own cost.

Yes, there are buildings with shared spaces and thus something more like a public charger would be required. However there are companies who will install a charger for you and they manage it, people get a card and use the card to use it and pay for it.

If you think about it this is no different to how Virgin/Sky/Eir install their gear in buildings at no direct cost to the management company (and trust me it can be very expensive to do, I've seen it), but then make the cost back from people who sign up for it.

I do agree that the government and city councils need to take various steps to make all this easier, but I think it is important to stress that chargers have been installed in a number of apartment buildings around Dublin and that it certainly isn't impossible.

BTW Apartment buildings normally have sinking funds, money collected as part of the management fee, which can then be used to renovate and improve the building. This money is often spent on pretty major projects and the decision on how that money gets spent is made by the Directors. A few chargers wouldn't be a big deal in bigger buildings, would barely register compared to other projects.

The Problem in His Apartment building is the management company, they don't do a lot of work that's needed.

Can you name a company that do these installations and admin of billing ?

His space is not shared, it's a designated space for him but he does not own it so they say well, um, that would be taking up a parking space.

He ended up going for another poxy diesel all to drive a few kms a day because the diesel is cheaper to buy than the petrol or so he says.

bk

Then your brother needs to get made a director and he can help sort that out.

No personal experience of them, but as an example:

https://www.lowcarbonenergy.co/electric-vehicle-charging-stations/residential-apartment-blocks/

BTW it sounds like your brother might just be saying that the management company won't allow it because he is tired of you nagging him about EV's

Because if he drives just a few km a day, and didn't go with a petrol or hybrid, it shows he doesn't actually care. I don't think he is representative of what can happen in apartment buildings.

No He doesn't really care I know that, but he doesn't want hassle either, he would not become a director in a million years for instance. He's looking to move anyway so might not be an issue in a few years, Perhaps when the PCP on this car is up in about 2.5 years he'll think different or will be in an actual house with his own drive by then.

Thanks for the link.

cros13

mrsdewinter wrote: »

Have many people managed to pull off installing a charge point in an apartment block car park?

Next month I'll be embarking on my 5th chargepoint install overall for my new apartment, having done one before in the underground parking for a previous apartment.

We really need to move toward the situation that exists in California or France where the management company & landlords are legally required to allow installation of a chargepoint.

antoinolachtnai

cros13 wrote: »

Next month I'll be embarking on my 5th chargepoint install overall for my new apartment, having done one before in the underground parking for a previous apartment.

We really need to move toward the situation that exists in California or France where the management company & landlords are legally required to allow installation of a chargepoint.

How will you arrange this? Will you get it wired to your own meter?

At the expense of the residents ? I'm not sure that would go down well when a lot of them may not even own an EV,

I do agree though, my Brother being one example of the hassle of apartment charging and a management company that's far less than enthusiastic , he couldn't be bothered with all the **** so got another diesel.

jeremy_g

cros13 wrote: »

We really need to move toward the situation that exists in California or France where the management company & landlords are legally required to allow installation of a chargepoint.

Deleted User wrote: »

At the expense of the residents ? I'm not sure that would go down well when a lot of them may not even own an EV,

I would agree to do it on my expense if legally the Management company / landlord would be obliged to allow it.

Obviously asking for all the residents to pay for it would fail.

No residents won't pay so communal solution isn't going to work, the only way it would work is to increase management fees and say nothing about electric car charging lol.

Someone has to sort billing so if someone could install some kind of evse with GSM link but again it has to be managed.

I really can't see it working in Ireland without political intervention so I expect apartment owners will be going to the 150 kw local fast chargers instead.

zilog_jones

If it's an allocated space, I don't think it would be a big deal.

Sierra Oscar

bk wrote: »

If you think about it this is no different to how Virgin/Sky/Eir install their gear in buildings at no direct cost to the management company (and trust me it can be very expensive to do, I've seen it), but then make the cost back from people who sign up for it.

Do you have any details on companies that offer this service?

I'm in a development with unassigned parking spaces and the Management Company is examining the possibility of installing electric charge points. There's a growing demand for it, but the fact that there is no assigned parking means asking individual owners to provide for themselves is out of the question.

zilog_jones

zilog_jones wrote: »

If it's an allocated space, I don't think it would be a big deal.

My Brother has an allocated space but it can be changed around for some reason and they don't want to "take up a space" for EV but it would be used but they don't see it like that they see it as taking up a space.

+ even if it was a permanent space the cable still has to go back to the meter and this is not practical so this is where the billing system has to be set up, meter reading etc. Not going to happen.

bk

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Do you have any details on companies that offer this service?

I've absolutely zero experience of them, but here is one example:

http://carcharger.ie/

Deleted User wrote: »

My Brother has an allocated space but it can be changed around for some reason and they don't want to "take up a space" for EV but it would be used but they don't see it like that they see it as taking up a space.

In my apartment, I legally own my own space, it can't be moved or changed.

As has been pointed out before, your brother clearly lives in an apartment building with a rubbish management company/agency and your brother doesn't seem to really care to push it anyway.

So I don't think you should be giving advice based on your brothers experience.

Deleted User wrote: »

+ even if it was a permanent space the cable still has to go back to the meter and this is not practical so this is where the billing system has to be set up, meter reading etc. Not going to happen.

Obviously I can't speak for all buildings, but in mine it would be relatively trivial to run cable from meter to my car space. At about 15 meters it would be further and thus a bit more costly then a typical semi-d, but still easily doable.

Please stop putting people off based on your brothers poor experience.

I'm not putting people off, just telling the story and the issues that are out there, and I don't appreciate your tone.

There are a lot of poor management companies out there and there are many issues apartment owners are going to face.

It's no issue for him to get a charge point installed as long as he connects to a suitable feed and can sort out his own billing.

He contacted 2 companies that install apartment charge points but it was going to be a lot of hassle regardless and no , he doesn't want that, it shouldn't be that complicated.

Great you're only 15 meters away from the meter, there's a hell of a lot of people who won't have the luxury !

listermint

Sounds like your brother wasn't pushed tbh.


And he wants someone to just to do it all for him..

I think we can agree apartment living is more complex excuse the pun but if he really wanted a charge point he could just pull the finger out.

Gumbo

bk wrote: »

I've absolutely zero experience of them, but here is one example:

http://carcharger.ie/



In my apartment, I legally own my own space, it can't be moved or changed.

As has been pointed out before, your brother clearly lives in an apartment building with a rubbish management company/agency and your brother doesn't seem to really care to push it anyway.

So I don't think you should be giving advice based on your brothers experience.



Obviously I can't speak for all buildings, but in mine it would be relatively trivial to run cable from meter to my car space. At about 15 meters it would be further and thus a bit more costly then a typical semi-d, but still easily doable.

Please stop putting people off based on your brothers poor experience.

Most apartment owners do not legally own their parking space, but have sole right to use it. The fact is, you need management company approval to put in a charger, it’s technically possible but it’s tricky as the cable has to go back to your meter or some for of unit reader.

Most management companies will Not do this but everybody should push their own particular MC as some cases will be easier than others.

listermint

listermint wrote: »

Sounds like your brother wasn't pushed tbh.

And he wants someone to just to do it all for him..

I think we can agree apartment living is more complex excuse the pun but if he really wanted a charge point he could just pull the finger out.

He would have got a charge point but no, he's not willing to deal with all that bullsh1t and I expect a lot of people won't either.

It would be nice if more Apartment owners came here to share their experiences.

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

He would have got a charge point but no, he's not willing to deal with all that bullsh1t and I expect a lot of people won't either.

It would be nice if more Apartment owners came here to share their experiences.

I will share my experience shortly.
I'm moving to an apartment imminently (signed contracts end of february, vendor seems to be delaying closure) and will be looking to get a CP installed.
We have assigned space per apartment and mine is right beside the meterbox so I don't see an issue practically. Of course, there's the whole issue of the management company.

Well you'll be in a much better position to start with, good luck !

BoatMad

I suggest anyone in this situation talk to Nigel Daly or Joe McCarthy ( MCC controls in dublin ) as they have experience of installing these units in apartments and hence may have some useful advice

Heres Johnny

I've an underground parking space at the end of a row and there is a wall beside it. On that wall lives my electricity meter. So 2 feet or so away from the car park spot.

Can I tap into this meter to provide electricity to charge a car? Or does it have to be wired back to my house?

I'm no electrician but as the meter is in some sort of communication with the house I thought this might work.

KCross

BoatMad wrote: »

I suggest anyone in this situation talk to Nigel Daly or Joe McCarthy ( MCC controls in dublin ) as they have experience of installing these units in apartments and hence may have some useful advice

For transparency you should share your association.

BoatMad

KCross wrote: »

For transparency you should share your association.

I use a Nigel Daley installed EVSE and I know he buys a lot of his equipment from Joe, who as is common knowledge is also a committee member of the IEVOA


my advice remains,

ELM327

BoatMad wrote: »

I suggest anyone in this situation talk to Nigel Daly or Joe McCarthy ( MCC controls in dublin ) as they have experience of installing these units in apartments and hence may have some useful advice

Would you suggest contacting him first, or the management company first?
I'd seen both suggested, and I can see the benefit of contacting an installer first so you know what to say to the management company.

BoatMad

ELM327 wrote: »

Would you suggest contacting him first, or the management company first?
I'd seen both suggested, and I can see the benefit of contacting an installer first so you know what to say to the management company.

yes thats my point , typically they ( the installers ) have seen most perspectives and may be able to give you advice, often the installer has to contact the management company anyway as they will not rely solely on your conclusions

Dardania

With mgmt companies, it may be helpful to come with a solution reasonably well worked out, for the specific installation needed