Maize

whelan2

What are crops like this year, is there much cut? Is it getting late now for cutting?

Milked out

whelan2 wrote: »

What are crops like this year, is there much cut? Is it getting late now for cutting?

Anything without plastic a disaster. Ours coming in today, contractor only has half the crop he set cut as was late ripening. Will be back on years with sunnier summers but good sites seem to be about average so I'm told.

foxy farmer

Was out with contractor this year about 200 acres to cut. Started 3 weeks ago. only 25 left to do. Cobs fine in places. No great height. Lots of weeds and nightshade. One particular plot we cut was mad green with very milky grain. I'd say that if it was left till christmas it wouldn't ripen. Pushed to the limit with pig slurry. Effluent flying after 3 hours. Passed one field set without plastic recently and it was hardly 3ft. Id say the cobs were non existent.

Timmaay

Ours in the pit 3wks and I'm flatout feeding it at the min. Yielded 22ton/acre, grown on contract and bought per ton, so I always gotta ask the question does he cut that bit early to keep the yield up, but in fairness the cob looked good at the time of cutting. One neighbour didn't use plastic on his, I wouldn't fancy having to feed high yielding HOs that whenever he gets around to cutting. In general I'd say 80% cut around here,and most the rest being done this week.

Dawggone

Timmaay wrote: »

Ours in the pit 3wks and I'm flatout feeding it at the min. Yielded 22ton/acre, grown on contract and bought per ton, so I always gotta ask the question does he cut that bit early to keep the yield up, but in fairness the cob looked good at the time of cutting. One neighbour didn't use plastic on his, I wouldn't fancy having to feed high yielding HOs that whenever he gets around to cutting. In general I'd say 80% cut around here,and most the rest being done this week.

Are you paying per ton of DM or brut Tim?

Timmaay

What's brut? Wet weight? The contractor weights 2 loads from the field and we take that as the average for the whole field

Dawggone

Timmaay wrote: »

What's brut? Wet weight? The contractor weights 2 loads from the field and we take that as the average for the whole field

Sorry Tim, local lingo for gross is brut.

Did figures for maize that worked out at 22.3tonDM/ha. We combined some of it and it yielded 14.4ton/ha corrected to 14% moisture. That means that the grain in forage maize accounts for 64% of the total DM.
With average crops of maize about this year it may be a better proposition to buy maize grain, especially as the stalk/leaves have the same feed value as straw.

Milked out

Milked out wrote: »

Anything without plastic a disaster. Ours coming in today, contractor only has half the crop he set cut as was late ripening. Will be back on years with sunnier summers but good sites seem to be about average so I'm told.

Got maize in yday, 22 ft trailer on weigh bridge had 18 ton in it I think. Will see when I test it tge quality. Made a small heap with last two trailers to keep main pit close for 2 or 3 weeks. Pulled over plastic last nite and said I'd finish tyres this morning. Up on the pit and crows were at it already the bastards

Timmaay

Dawggone wrote: »

Sorry Tim, local lingo for gross is brut.

Did figures for maize that worked out at 22.3tonDM/ha. We combined some of it and it yielded 14.4ton/ha corrected to 14% moisture. That means that the grain in forage maize accounts for 64% of the total DM.
With average crops of maize about this year it may be a better proposition to buy maize grain, especially as the stalk/leaves have the same feed value as straw.

At 50e a ton and 30% DM (at a pure guess), the maize I go is coming in at about 17c/kgDM? Certainly not cheap feed. Considering the grass silage bales for 20e each, and at say 750kg and 30%dm I bought in comes in at something around 9c/kgDM. (obviously not comparing like with like feed, but still). Anyways what price would I get maize grain for anyone able to tell me? Or dare I say should I be growing myown maize. I could be wrong with them c/kgDM figures, correct me if I am please!

Dawggone

Timmaay wrote: »

At 50e a ton and 30% DM (at a pure guess), the maize I go is coming in at about 17c/kgDM? Certainly not cheap feed. Considering the grass silage bales for 20e each, and at say 750kg and 30%dm I bought in comes in at something around 9c/kgDM. (obviously not comparing like with like feed, but still). Anyways what price would I get maize grain for anyone able to tell me? Or dare I say should I be growing myown maize. I could be wrong with them c/kgDM figures, correct me if I am please!

Merchants should easily be able to supply coarse rolled maize at sub €200/ton delivered Tim.
I would use that figure to price (on a starch and DM basis) your bought in forage maize...

Timmaay

Whats the DM of coarse rolled maize? IE how does it compare price wise per kgDM to the bought in wet maize?

Dawggone

Timmaay wrote: »

Whats the DM of coarse rolled maize? IE how does it compare price wise per kgDM to the bought in wet maize?

Grain maize is 14% moisture therefore 86%DM.
So at €200/ton is approx 17cent/kgDM.
Grain maize is 1.22 to 1.41 ufl.

Forage maize is (at 35%dm and 33%starch) 0.91 to 0.94 ufl.

I'm not trying to complicate things...:)

When I say coarse rolled I mean that the grain is just cracked, kinda like oats for horses. That way you can feed a lot more without any acidosis problems.

alps

For any of you interested in toys...

Milked out

alps wrote: »

For any of you interested in toys...

Past one today passing thru Crookstown in cork, fair size of a rig. Talking to lads yday tgey were drawing maize on a four hour round trip sun and Mon

mahoney_j

alps wrote: »

For any of you interested in toys...

My silage contractor made the original kompactor,very impressive piece of engineering .hi spec now sell and market it

Timmaay

Milked out wrote: »

Past one today passing thru Crookstown in cork, fair size of a rig. Talking to lads yday tgey were drawing maize on a four hour round trip sun and Mon

4hr round trip, how much does that add to the cost per ton?

Milked out

Timmaay wrote: »

4hr round trip, how much does that add to the cost per ton?

No idea, one of the lads with his own tractor wouldn't do it for them, wouldn't be worth it for him he said. That nearly says enuv about it. They did similar last year I think, contractor apparently was looking for suitable sites to grow it further West for those few that look for it but couldn't find or couldn't get any good enough

darragh_haven

Organic maize being put in last Tuesday. 15 to 16 ton per acre

visatorro

Is there much maize going into AD's in the UK Darragh? was talking to a fella who was saying you couldn't rent land in the south of England with lads giving mad money for maize ground. farmers are getting grant for supplying the digesters, and the whole thing isn't efficient

darragh_haven

Pics attached now

darragh_haven

visatorro wrote: »

Is there much maize going into AD's in the UK Darragh? was talking to a fella who was saying you couldn't rent land in the south of England with lads giving mad money for maize ground. farmers are getting grant for supplying the digesters, and the whole thing isn't efficient

Lincolnshire, East anglia and Shropshire have the highest polification of AD plants. About half are maize plants that are nearly doomed to failure at the start. The most profitable plants might use maize as 15 to 20% of their feedstock but the rest is a by-product of the normal farming process in the area. The most common being FYM, cattle slurry and veg waste.
There is a plant in East Anglia that has silage pits full up with 35,000 ton of maize. And it's in real trouble. £4.5million to build and it'll probably fail in the spring. Feedstock unstable and cost spiraling out of control.

visatorro

what do farmers get in return for slurry and dung?

darragh_haven

visatorro wrote: »

what do farmers get in return for slurry and dung?

Alot of the operators I deal with, it's a total in house system.
One guy has 1500 fattening cattle in pens on his farm and all are bedded on straw. He's also a straw baling contractor that bales 9000 acres of straw and gets the use of the bales for nothing as long as he bales and takes it away. He uses all FYM and veg waste in the digester and has a 9.5million gal lagoon (fills it in 3 months). The farmers he gets the straw from, get the digestate from the lagoon. So it's an enclosed system where nothing is really bought or sold to feed the plant.

Other guys trade the slurry or dung for the end product (like slurry but better NPK)

Deepsouthwest

darragh_haven wrote: »

Lincolnshire, East anglia and Shropshire have the highest polification of AD plants. About half are maize plants that are nearly doomed to failure at the start. The most profitable plants might use maize as 15 to 20% of their feedstock but the rest is a by-product of the normal farming process in the area. The most common being FYM, cattle slurry and veg waste.
There is a plant in East Anglia that has silage pits full up with 35,000 ton of maize. And it's in real trouble. £4.5million to build and it'll probably fail in the spring. Feedstock unstable and cost spiraling out of control.

Why are they failing Darragh? Saw a couple of them on a trip to Northern Ireland last yr, and I got the impression if u could afford the few mil to build it, it was like a licence to print money after that.

darragh_haven

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

Why are they failing Darragh? Saw a couple of them on a trip to Northern Ireland last yr, and I got the impression if u could afford the few mil to build it, it was like a licence to print money after that.

It is a licence to print money in NI. They get the highest rate for their electricity, but you still need some semblance of control of your feedstock if you want to be successful. Buying in vast amounts of feed like they do on the large plants in England causes costs to spiral due to transport costs and to their lower rate of payment for electricity.
3/4 of plants in England are grand, but a good few are under alot of pressure due to having no plan B if a feedstock supplier bails out

Deepsouthwest

darragh_haven wrote: »

It is a licence to print money in NI. They get the highest rate for their electricity, but you still need some semblance of control of your feedstock if you want to be successful. Buying in vast amounts of feed like they do on the large plants in England causes costs to spiral due to transport costs and to their lower rate of payment for electricity.
3/4 of plants in England are grand, but a good few are under alot of pressure due to having no plan B if a feedstock supplier bails out

Thought the guys in NI seemed in a healthy state alright. The only fear/problem I saw with them was that they had the ability to out bid any traditional form of farming systems, and were starting to do it with land that was becoming available to rent or even buy.
That's a scary situation when the necessity of food production is surpassed by that of energy.

darragh_haven

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

Thought the guys in NI seemed in a healthy state alright. The only fear/problem I saw with them was that they had the ability to out bid any traditional form of farming systems, and were starting to do it with land that was becoming available to rent or even buy.
That's a scary situation when the necessity of food production is surpassed by that of energy.

Rates for the electric is being cut as the powers that be feel there are about enough plants at the moment. And they don't want to impact food production if possible
Plants not locked in and accredited by now, will not be viable if they are not completed by April 2016 in England Scotland and Wales, and April 2017 in NI. There are only about 30 big plants (500kw) in Northern Ireland and they want more 100kw to 100kw plants built from now on - powered totally by slurry.

BG2.0

darragh_haven wrote: »

Rates for the electric is being cut as the powers that be feel there are about enough plants at the moment. And they don't want to impact food production if possible
Plants not locked in and accredited by now, will not be viable if they are not completed by April 2016 in England Scotland and Wales, and April 2017 in NI. There are only about 30 big plants (500kw) in Northern Ireland and they want more 100kw to 100kw plants built from now on - powered totally by slurry.

Many of the ad plants fitted sterilisation equipment for the digestate?
Lots of guys sold BG infested wheat wholecrop/more so going to Rye now with digestate back in the deal which is full of seed which produced some lovely scenes in the following crop. Don't ask which type of the 2 fermentations this place ran!

X6.430macman

darragh_haven wrote: »

Lincolnshire, East anglia and Shropshire have the highest polification of AD plants. About half are maize plants that are nearly doomed to failure at the start. The most profitable plants might use maize as 15 to 20% of their feedstock but the rest is a by-product of the normal farming process in the area. The most common being FYM, cattle slurry and veg waste.
There is a plant in East Anglia that has silage pits full up with 35,000 ton of maize. And it's in real trouble. £4.5million to build and it'll probably fail in the spring. Feedstock unstable and cost spiraling out of control.

i think that plant featured in an issue of PROFI magazine a while back

darragh_haven

X6.430macman wrote: »

i think that plant featured in an issue of PROFI magazine a while back

There are 2 or 3 plants of that size in England being supply from specifically grown feedstock. Totally unsustainable for an area.

darragh_haven

BG2.0 wrote: »

Many of the ad plants fitted sterilisation equipment for the digestate?
Lots of guys sold BG infested wheat wholecrop/more so going to Rye now with digestate back in the deal which is full of seed which produced some lovely scenes in the following crop. Don't ask which type of the 2 fermentations this place ran!

It doesn't matter which fermentation type is used, the seed will be transferred to the digestate unless it's pasteurised/sterilized. The problem with pasteurisation is the huge quantities of heat needed. Some of the smaller plants have pasteurisation processes in place but it more to do with the need for this process if you take in municipal waste.

X6.430macman

there is something like 7600 of those plants in germany

MF290

I was in Bavaria during the summer and there were AD plants everywhere. They were getting something like a 19-23c per Kw subsidy depending on size and efficiency ect. In Ireland it's 12c per KW, I think it's 17c needed for it to make financial sense otherwise a gate fee and restaurant waste or such. The fella I was working with had finance sorted and business plan done, he decided against it in the end. A good friend of his who would be high up in the German department of ag told him he would be absolutely stone mad to base his business plan on a subsidy which is politically volatile and could be gotten rid of any time. The green party are very strong over there at the minute. The AD plants over there haven't been fully perfected yet and constant repairs are required which you'd have to be able to do yourself. You can tell that a lot of the farmers have blown their money on big fendts and machinery. Land rental prices have increased hugely with lads looking to grow maize for the plants. the land would be very difficult in the area and the constant silaging is taking its toll. At the rate its going tillage farmers will be out of business and the AD plant farmers will go broke or be lucky to break even when the subsidy is removed. The farmers used to have cows for milk and now they have them for sh1t. It takes a huge amount of work to keep the plants going and ends up being a 17hr 365days a year job. A lot of people were worried that Germany was running out of cheap energy since nuclear plants are being banned but a few of them are popping up along the borders! That was the story I got whilst there but then again he already had an office business which is very profitable and seemed to think that anything he didn't do couldn't be profitable or worthwhile!!

bogman_bass

Really the way to make profit is to charge gate fees to take in brown bin waste, Are many doing that in the UK?

darragh_haven

bogman_bass wrote: »

Really the way to make profit is to charge gate fees to take in brown bin waste, Are many doing that in the UK?

Taking in brown bin waste creates big problems in the set up cost and running cost for an AD plant.
If is just farm feedstock/waste used you don't need to pre treat or pasteurise the end product. And it's easy to offload the digestate to neighbouring farms.
Whereas if you use municipal waste the cost of a plant and the running cost go up by between 40% to 60%. Also you are dealing in waste licencing and almost weekly inspections by guys with clean hi-vis jackets and clip boards

darragh_haven

MF290 wrote: »

I was in Bavaria during the summer and there were AD plants everywhere. They were getting something like a 19-23c per Kw subsidy depending on size and efficiency ect. In Ireland it's 12c per KW, I think it's 17c needed for it to make financial sense otherwise a gate fee and restaurant waste or such. The fella I was working with had finance sorted and business plan done, he decided against it in the end. A good friend of his who would be high up in the German department of ag told him he would be absolutely stone mad to base his business plan on a subsidy which is politically volatile and could be gotten rid of any time. The green party are very strong over there at the minute. The AD plants over there haven't been fully perfected yet and constant repairs are required which you'd have to be able to do yourself. You can tell that a lot of the farmers have blown their money on big fendts and machinery. Land rental prices have increased hugely with lads looking to grow maize for the plants. the land would be very difficult in the area and the constant silaging is taking its toll. At the rate its going tillage farmers will be out of business and the AD plant farmers will go broke or be lucky to break even when the subsidy is removed. The farmers used to have cows for milk and now they have them for sh1t. It takes a huge amount of work to keep the plants going and ends up being a 17hr 365days a year job. A lot of people were worried that Germany was running out of cheap energy since nuclear plants are being banned but a few of them are popping up along the borders! That was the story I got whilst there but then again he already had an office business which is very profitable and seemed to think that anything he didn't do couldn't be profitable or worthwhile!!

Spent 6 months in Bavaria as the company i work with is based there. The rates paid to farmers are locked in for 20 years for accreditation. So whether the greens get in or not is irrelevant to the price your paid for your kW of electricity. Up until about 2 or 3 years ago it was still a licence to print money for the new entrants. Any that got in before that is coining it for 20 years as it EU sanctioned. This is the same for all countries with an AD plant development programme. It's like being told tat your Base price for milk is 55 cent per litre for the next 20 years...... and linked to inflation.

MF290

darragh_haven wrote: »

Spent 6 months in Bavaria as the company i work with is based there. The rates paid to farmers are locked in for 20 years for accreditation. So whether the greens get in or not is irrelevant to the price your paid for your kW of electricity. Up until about 2 or 3 years ago it was still a licence to print money for the new entrants. Any that got in before that is coining it for 20 years as it EU sanctioned. This is the same for all countries with an AD plant development programme. It's like being told tat your Base price for milk is 55 cent per litre for the next 20 years...... and linked to inflation.

Maybe that's what he was getting at seeing as he was looking to get in on it more recently, it was difficult to keep up with the dialect by times Will many have made money out of it after the 20 years are up?
I remember him saying something like every single ag minister for each state was a green bar one.......
Rents are gone crazy on the back of it, as you said it's a licence to print money and land is the biggest limiting factor.
What part of Bavaria were you in if you don't mind me asking? The people are fierce decent hardworking people.

darragh_haven

MF290 wrote: »

Maybe that's what he was getting at seeing as he was looking to get in on it more recently, it was difficult to keep up with the dialect by times Will many have made money out of it after the 20 years are up?
I remember him saying something like every single ag minister for each state was a green bar one.......
Rents are gone crazy on the back of it, as you said it's a licence to print money and land is the biggest limiting factor.
What part of Bavaria were you in if you don't mind me asking? The people are fierce decent hardworking people.

Spent most of my time near Ansbach, South West Nuremburg. There are about 5,000 American army personnel in Ansbach. Spent a few weeks in Gunzenhousen too. Loved my time there but didn't learn any German as they wanted to speak English to me. The agri community there were very welcoming.

MF290

darragh_haven wrote: »

Spent most of my time near Ansbach, South West Nuremburg. There are about 5,000 American army personnel in Ansbach. Spent a few weeks in Gunzenhousen too. Loved my time there but didn't learn any German as they wanted to speak English to me. The agri community there were very welcoming.

Yeah they do love to practice their English, luckily enough they didn't have too much where I was on the far side of Nuremburg! Saw the odd low flying helicopter practicing flying under the radar the valleys heading that direction:eek:

whelan2

is there much left to do now?

darragh_haven

I saw a few fields of it up around the louth/armagh border area yesterday, approx 20 to 25 acres. From the look of the fields, alot of it will be staying in the field. Poor crop.
All harvested in west cork as far as I can see

foxy farmer

2 plots near me still growing. One of them has 40 acres. Other around 6 acres. Both sat in june with no plastic. There are few very decent sized cobs in the 40 acre plot. Both have no green whatsoever left. Should make interesting feeding whenever its cut. Ground conditions have gone to pot with the last 2 weeks around here at any rate.

freedominacup

Last field I know of around here cut on Fri. Field literally over the ditch from it cut six weeks ago. Early stuff under plastic as good as any crop I saw around here. Stuff on Friday as bad as anything I ever saw.

whelan2

saw a field being cut yesterday, it was very brown

Timmaay

Results from maize cut late Sept. DM lower than I'd have expected, cut too early? And the protein also, I would have expected closer to 7 or 8%.

whelan2

Timmaay wrote: »

Results from maize cut late Sept. DM lower than I'd have expected, cut too early? And the protein also, I would have expected closer to 7 or 8%.

what test was that, there's a special one for maize /triticale? Got my results of triticale /lupins the other day, cp here is 11.1, dm 32.2

Timmaay

whelan2 wrote: »

what test was that, there's a special one for maize /triticale? Got my results of triticale /lupins the other day, cp here is 11.1, dm 32.2

My local feed mill (Bolgers) sent it away to be tested. Actually the chap I bought the maize off said it was a trial plott, and someone from Ucd had taken a sample at harvesting to be tested, I may go get them results to compare.

whelan2

Timmaay wrote: »

My local feed mill (Bolgers) sent it away to be tested. Actually the chap I bought the maize off said it was a trial plott, and someone from Ucd had taken a sample at harvesting to be tested, I may go get them results to compare.

I sent a sample to oldcastle labs, there is a specific test takes about 10 days, so the longer you are waiting on results the better, how are the cows milking on it? I didnt open triticale pit yet.

Timmaay

whelan2 wrote: »

I sent a sample to oldcastle labs, there is a specific test takes about 10 days, so the longer you are waiting on results the better, how are the cows milking on it? I didnt open triticale pit yet.

How much to test? Bolgers one was free, I prb wouldn't have bothered testing otherwise. Cows milking ok, 14L average, 9 autumn calvers 59 spring (many are late spring tho) , the autumn are certainly back, doing about 25l max when if they calved to grass they would closer to 40l. Struggling to get them to eat the pit silage, they horse through the maize and especially any silage bales, but just not arsed with the pit silage at all.

1/2 thinking now of ditching the 1st cut pit silage totally for the milkers, make all bales in early may, put just maize in the pit. Less waste around the front of the pit etc also.

Cow Porter

Timmaay wrote: »

How much to test? Bolgers one was free, I prb wouldn't have bothered testing otherwise. Cows milking ok, 14L average, 9 autumn calvers 59 spring (many are late spring tho) , the autumn are certainly back, doing about 25l max when if they calved to grass they would closer to 40l. Struggling to get them to eat the pit silage, they horse through the maize and especially any silage bales, but just not arsed with the pit silage at all.

1/2 thinking now of ditching the 1st cut pit silage totally for the milkers, make all bales in early may, put just maize in the pit. Less waste around the front of the pit etc also.

What else are you feeding. Your autumn calvers probably lacking protein to milk on. Would both groups benefit from a higher cp nut. This is where that rusty feeder comes into play with some soya ☺ overall diet should be around 16 I reckon.

Timmaay

Cow Porter wrote: »

What else are you feeding. Your autumn calvers probably lacking protein to milk on. Would both groups benefit from a higher cp nut. This is where that rusty feeder comes into play with some soya ☺ overall diet should be around 16 I reckon.

4kg of a high spec 18% p nut. Agreed fully about the diet feeder, but would you buy one for a few autumn calvers ha. May price up a 22/24% p nut, but I'm guessing 330/350? Only serving 2 carryovers to calf down next autumn, and could well sell them. I'd far prefer to cut high dmd, high protein leafy silage and ditch the maize, short on silage ground and need to buy in though.