Golf GTI PP or Golf R

Omacron

Hi all I am in the (fortunate) position where I am looking to buy either one of these two models. The problem is I suspect the GTI will will probably have all the performance I need 90% of the time. However if I go for GTI I'll always wonder about the R. So is there anyone on here who owns either one or has experience of both who can comment on the pros and cons?

Atlantic Dawn

Are you looking to go DSG or manual?

Omacron

For GTI I am leaning towards manual. For R I was thinking dsg. This is purely based on reviews I have read which seem to favour R with dsg. I have actually test drove GTI (non pp version) which was manual very nice but was only a test drive. I have driven dsg in other vag models but nothing close to R's performance.

carsfan

What is the price difference between the two cars when you spec them to your requirements?
I have a gti pp and went through this myself last year. There are drivers of both on here so you. Will get more feedback I imagine.
I find the car I have excellent but I believe the r is another level when you can access it which may not be that often.
I figured that with higher costs of running the r and the higher price it wasn't worth it to me at the time. I think if you buy on pcp the payment is not much more per month for the r however.
I would try and test the r if I was you before I decide.

JoeA3

I have an R (about 2 months now) and I had a MK7 GTI (non-PP) before this. I've posted lots about it here on other threads, particularly on this thread, which should give you plenty of reading - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=97285677

smash

I have to applaud you guys for buying these cars so in years to come they'll be there in the 2nd hand market. I just couldn't ever justifying paying €50k for a golf, no matter what the performance figures are.

Omacron

I could be in the minority here but I think for the performance on offer with either the GTI or R it's a pretty good deal. I've done the whole big German motorway cruiser thing with the premium branding and pricing to match. IMHO these cars while very nice to cruise around in they don't offer much excitement once you living with it day to day.

Joe thanks for link, one other question on the R, has it attracted any unwanted attention? Styling is pretty subtle but they are not too hard to spot if you know what your look out for.

Also anyone know if there are any Dublin based garages with an R to test drive ideally with dsg?

dar83

I went through a similar thought process recently myself but it was pretty clear very quickly that the GTI PP was a good chunk of change cheaper than the R, at least in my individual case. I'd personally go for the R all day long if money isn't an issue. If you're a bit more fiscally focused though, then the GTI may be enough to keep you happy.

JoeA3

Omacron wrote: »

Joe thanks for link, one other question on the R, has it attracted any unwanted attention? Styling is pretty subtle but they are not too hard to spot if you know what your look out for.

Also anyone know if there are any Dublin based garages with an R to test drive ideally with dsg?

No "unwanted" attention that I've noticed thankfully but I've noticed it certainly does draw a fair amount of rubbernecking - mostly just people admiring it (I hope!). The colour (Lapiz blue) is fairly striking, it does stand out... if you picked a more subtle colour you really would fly under the radar.

Frank Keane's usually have a demo in stock. Not the friendliest bunch in there though in my experience. Unless they think you're a serious / genuine customer you might have a hard time getting the keys.

Omacron

Thanks Dar I am leaning towards the same conclusion but I don't know if I could decide until I drove an R to compare. Most R owners are happy they have splashed out but most also note that they never really get to use the extra performance. So in the end you're paying more tax and higher fuel costs for performance that will be fleetingly used at best.

So I feel the GTI is the sensible choice but I suppose that's the point I don't really want to be sensible here. Hence looking to gauge whether there are any issues with owning an R in Ireland that are not discussed generally in the reviews.

Royale with Cheese

Thinking the same myself. Haven't actually driven either yet but I think I'll be going for a mk7 gti. A decent year or so old mk7 gti should be about €30k. As the new r is only just out here you'd be looking at at least €10k more. Can't see it being worth that for me as the gti is already a huge upgrade on what I'm currently driving. If there were some 2 year old models knocking about for €35k maybe I'd be tempted. Could maybe even trade up in a few years.

bazz26

The R in black is a real sleeper imo, could easily be mistaken for a 1.6 TDi until you hope to get close enough to notice the 4 rear tail pipes.

TheBazman

I have the R in Lapiz aswell since February. I think if you can stretch for the R definitely go for it. The other thread linked above has the answer to most of your questions I would suspect.

JoeA3

Omacron wrote: »

Thanks Dar I am leaning towards the same conclusion but I don't know if I could decide until I drove an R to compare. Most R owners are happy they have splashed out but most also note that they never really get to use the extra performance. So in the end you're paying more tax and higher fuel costs for performance that will be fleetingly used at best.

So I feel the GTI is the sensible choice but I suppose that's the point I don't really want to be sensible here. Hence looking to gauge whether there are any issues with owning an R in Ireland that are not discussed generally in the reviews.

Go for the R, leave the sensible hat off!!

Actually, on the sensible front, I've noticed my mpg improving a little in recent weeks. Averaging 29 now and it was 25-26 for the first 6-8 weeks.

bazz26

Isn't the GTi PP being replaced by an Anniversary edition soon with similar power?

JoeA3

bazz26 wrote: »

Isn't the GTi PP being replaced by an Anniversary edition soon with similar power?

The clubsport? I don't know if they are replacing the PP version, I haven't seen that stated anywhere. But the Clubsport does look like an interesting option alright. 3 door only though as far as I know.

TheBazman

JoeA3 wrote: »

Go for the R, leave the sensible hat off!!

Actually, on the sensible front, I've noticed my mpg improving a little in recent weeks. Averaging 29 now and it was 25-26 for the first 6-8 weeks.

Mine has settled at around 29. Happy with that mpg but would prefer a slightly bigger tank.

bazz26

Yeah Clubsport is what I was talking about. Would seem a bit overkill to me having a GTi, GTi PP and GTi Clubsport in the range.

simdan

Go for the R. You only live once and if you can afford it, why not? You'll only regret it when you see one flying by you.

Paddy@CIRL

Have drove the MKVII GTI (manual), GTI PP (manual) & Golf R (DSG). Own a MKVI GTI (DSG) so you have an idea of where I'm coming from.

It's a great conundrum to be in, because you really can't go wrong and it ultimately comes down to what you can afford. For me, I would have a GTI PP with DSG and a few extra option boxes ticked. The GTI PP has all the performance you would ever need on the road and is, IMO at least, more fun to drive than the R. That being said, the R would leave it for dead in your typical Irish conditions.

The GTI is also marginally more fuel efficient, I knocked out 42mpg on a Dublin to Cork run with the GTI PP and the same again on a run from Munich to Velden in Austria earlier this year. I couldn't get the latter to drop below 35mpg on the return journey, despite the de-restricted sections of autobahn.

Ultimately, you should go with what your heart wants. Life is too short to be sensible.

JoeA3

TheBazman wrote: »

Mine has settled at around 29. Happy with that mpg but would prefer a slightly bigger tank.

Yeah I had thought the R's tank was a bit bigger than the GTI - 55l versus 50 but I'm not so sure that's the case. I seem to only get the same volume of fuel into it as I did the GTI. Fortunately my mileage is low ish so my filling station visits are only every 10-12 days.

JoeA3

bazz26 wrote: »

Yeah Clubsport is what I was talking about. Would seem a bit overkill to me having a GTi, GTi PP and GTi Clubsport in the range.

It'll be a very crowded segment for sure and will be interesting to see how they price it. There's just 4.5k between the PP and the R as it is so where does the clubsport fit?!

dar83

Also just so it has been said, a stage 1 remap of the GTI (or PP) can push it close to 300bhp anyway (or more like 275bhp with our fuel anyway...). Problem is you won't have the 4Motion behind all that power but I guess at least you'll have the diff and the bigger brakes with the PP!

bazz26

That's why I was thinking the Clubsport would have to replace the PP or the R will go back to it's previous very expensive price range.

JoeA3

Remapping is a grey area. Warranty is obviously a big issue. VW are making it more and more difficult to do it - the security that VW put on the modern ECU's is much more difficult to bypass these days.
I found it hard enough to get the power down on a standard GTI on anything but bone dry roads. Wheelspin on aggressive acceleration was always an issue, sometimes dangerously - e.g. Attempting a quick start on a wet roundabout often had the fronts scrabbling for grip.

It's impossible to phase the R in that way. Grip is on another planet which makes it a far better proposition for Irish roads imo.

dar83

That also comes down a lot to the tyres fitted. I've found the Potenza's on the GTI from factory are rubbish in the wet, a completely different world to the Eagle F1's I have been used to (on a car running more power through the front wheels) and even lateral grip once moving leaves a whole lot to be desired let alone from a standing start.

Remapping will invalidate your warranty, sure. But if you're thinking slightly longer term and investment wise, then it's nice to know that you have more power on tap with a somewhat inexpensive plug and play setup. It may just help you live with choosing a GTI over an R for when your warranty is up. :P

JoeA3

dar83 wrote: »

That also comes down a lot to the tyres fitted. I've found the Potenza's on the GTI from factory are rubbish in the wet, a completely different world to the Eagle F1's I have been used to (on a car running more power through the front wheels) and even lateral grip once moving leaves a whole lot to be desired let alone from a standing start.

Remapping will invalidate your warranty, sure. But if you're thinking slightly longer term and investment wise, then it's nice to know that you have more power on tap with a somewhat inexpensive plug and play setup. It may just help you live with choosing a GTI over an R. :P

Yeah I had the bridgestones on it too and swapped them for Continental Conti Sport 5's in January (same as what's on my R now) and there was a good improvement but still not too difficult to get the wheels spinning!

dar83

The Bridgestones are terrible! Did your GTI have the Diff?

In fairness any FWD car running 200bhp+ is going to spin the wheels if you want it to from a standing start or even low speed to hard acceleration in 1st-3rd. Tyres do make quite a lot of difference though.

td2008

What are the pcp deals like down here? There was some ridiculous offers when i was up north, 2K down and £200 per month

JoeA3

dar83 wrote: »

The Bridgestones are terrible! Did your GTI have the Diff?

In fairness any FWD car running 200bhp+ is going to spin the wheels if you want it to from a standing start or even low speed to hard acceleration in 1st-3rd. Tyres do make quite a lot of difference though.

No I had the non PP version, electronic diff only. It wasn't that bad, don't get me wrong... A lot better than my old MK5 GTI was that's for sure - that car would literally hop skip and jump!

The AWD in the R is just brilliant... Try launch control in a DSG R and you'll see what I mean

JoeA3

td2008 wrote: »

What are the pcp deals like down here? There was some ridiculous offers when i was up north, 2K down and £200 per month

The rates are good here - still 1.9% I think. But for an R you're looking at about €450pm if you put down the max allowable deposit of 31%.

vintagevrs

It is a bit of a tough, but nice choice to be making. I was in the boat last March when I decided to change from a 2l diesel to something more fun. Test drove a manual gti and thought it was good and relatively good value for what it offered both practical and performance wise. Did the spreadsheets and costs and spent a long time reading reviews and playing with vw configurator. The feck it and enjoy it voice won in the end and I went for a dsg R.

For me I think the gti is a more special place to be with the red accents vs blue and the seats etc. My car is quite plain from the outside and juat looks like a sporty model. Most people think I just got a tdi which is fine by me (kind of the point actaully) and those that know their cars know what it is. The gti is more recognisable to more people as a brand in itself compared to the R.

The R does have great performance but so does the gti and you do pay a premium in initial cost and fuel. I'm getting about 27mpg, almost zero city driving but I do enjoy the car when it's warmed up.


So in summary I have no feckin idea what you should go for.:pac:

You won't regret either

simdan

td2008 wrote:

What are the pcp deals like down here? There was some ridiculous offers when i was up north, 2K down and £200 per month

??? Where are you getting this from? You can't even get a basic 1.4 golf for that money in the U.K.

Can you let us know where you saw this offer? Lol

td2008

http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/300bhp-vw-golf-r-5dr-24-month-lease-1555-deposit-inc-document-fee-229-20-per-month-1926066

Was one example but with a pretty low mileage limit. There was a good few others, big thread on pistonheads too. There was a serious amount of golf r`s about up there

JoeA3

There is - or at least was - cheap lease deals going in the UK. No clue what the figures are, but apparently cheap enough for a lot of young fellas to upgrade their Vauxhall Corsas...

vintagevrs

Nice dsg estate. ...
VW Golf R MK7 Estate DSG Personal Lease Deal - £7,168.13 @ Freedom Contracts (£1915.16 Deposit + 23 x £212.79 Payments + £358.80 Doc Fee)

carsfan

Why can't private buyers do leasing like this in Ireland as opposed to pcp type deals?

bazz26

Because it's not offered here.

kodirl

Omacron wrote: »

Thanks Dar I am leaning towards the same conclusion but I don't know if I could decide until I drove an R to compare. Most R owners are happy they have splashed out but most also note that they never really get to use the extra performance. So in the end you're paying more tax and higher fuel costs for performance that will be fleetingly used at best.

So I feel the GTI is the sensible choice but I suppose that's the point I don't really want to be sensible here. Hence looking to gauge whether there are any issues with owning an R in Ireland that are not discussed generally in the reviews.

Hi Omacron, I was in the exact same position as you only a few weeks ago and ended up ordering a new 161 manual 3dr GTI PP. In Karmann VW they had two Golf R's at the time I was ordering my GTI, they may still have one if you are looking for a test drive in an R. Personall yI prefer the looks of the GTI (exterior and interior) and that's what ultimately helped me decide in choosing it over the R. However the R is a serious bit of kit especially if you can regularly get to use the power it has on tap.

carsfan

No sign of the op on this thread.
I wonder did he change his mind altogether?

Omacron

Still here and thanking those who are contributing. As for karmann not sure any R's left to test drive or MSL so still looking for a garage in Dublin that has a demo. Don't think I can pull trigger until I drive one though. Maybe a have to think of trip up north garages there seem to have a few on forecourt.

noelf

Jeremy Clarkson writes about the Golf R in todays Sunday Times " I liked it enormously and you would too . I dont care what you drive now : I can pretty much guarantee that if you took an R for a test drive you'd want it in your life immediately " ..

Omacron

Thanks I actually saw that but didn't get a chance to read the review. I haven't taken Mr. Clarkson seriously for a while as a decent judge on these matters. He bought a Ford GT40 after reviewing and waxed lyrical about the car but soon realised (as a lot of owners did) that the car was a pig on European roads. I believe he quietly moved it on. A beautiful pig mind you...the car not Clarkson.

carsfan

Clarkson actually bought a gti as he says in the article because he "felt he wanted one in his life."
Interesting that when it came to actually having to buy a car with his own money that's what he went for. Doesn't say he's getting rid of it to buy a golf R either.

Omacron

Seriously he owns a GTI I didn't know that. Not that I follow the guy much but every time I see him pulling up to an event (when he is not reviewing something) he has been driving a merc... or riding a bicycle after he had the altercation with his producer.

JoeA3

Clarkson has always been a big Golf GTI fan. It was his Top Gear review of the MK5 GTI that convinced me to buy one!!

dar83

Omacron wrote: »

Still here and thanking those who are contributing. As for karmann not sure any R's left to test drive or MSL so still looking for a garage in Dublin that has a demo. Don't think I can pull trigger until I drive one though. Maybe a have to think of trip up north garages there seem to have a few on forecourt.

There's a garage over in Bluebell that has one, I know someone who test drove it on Saturday just gone, so it's still there.

http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/volkswagen/golf/used-2015-151-volkswagen-golf-r-2-0-t-dublin-fpa-201014406728722510

kooga

if considering the R why not look at the audi s3 as well

kooga

JoeA3 wrote: »

Clarkson has always been a big Golf GTI fan. It was his Top Gear review of the MK5 GTI that convinced me to buy one!!

I remember that review back in early 2005.............bought one as well!

JoeA3

kooga wrote: »

if considering the R why not look at the audi s3 as well

You'd need to find another €10k or thereabouts down the back of the couch :pac:

option

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Are you looking to go DSG or manual?

DSG is awesome, I have it, and I cant move to munal anymore!