Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Have you gone from being a Libertarian to Socialism?

Options
1…5678911»

Comments

  • Options
    #302
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Options
    #303
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,991 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    The text of the 2nd amendment mentions nothing about gun ownership for self defence. It has been "interpreted" to allow all sorts of lax gun laws, but at the same time gun laws vary by state and city. The 2nd amendment has zero relevance to the subject of gun ownership IMO, not that I'm anti gun. The 2nd amendment essentially gave the right to form citizen militias, until the entire population was designated a militia to excuse a criminal absence of gun control.

    The SCOTUS also ruled Lincoln suspending habius corpus was constitutional. How do you feel about that?

    There are large parts of the world where Marx thoughts on wage slavery are still relevant. Ironically China being the biggest example, a country that claims to be Communist.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Options
    #304
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Options
    #305
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,991 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    Why selectively reply to my post? I fleshed out my opinion a bit more than the part you responded to.

    I take it you agree to the rest so.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Options
    #306
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #307
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,991 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.


    I'm making a fairly simple point here. The 2nd amendment doesn't mention gun ownership for personal use, therefore it's irrelevant to the discussion. Marx talks extensively about wage slavery and worker oppression, which are happening today. Ergo Marx is more relevant today.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Options
    #308
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    Brian? wrote: »
    The text of the 2nd amendment mentions nothing about gun ownership for self defence. It has been "interpreted" to allow all sorts of lax gun laws, but at the same time gun laws vary by state and city. The 2nd amendment has zero relevance to the subject of gun ownership IMO, not that I'm anti gun. The 2nd amendment essentially gave the right to form citizen militias, until the entire population was designated a militia to excuse a criminal absence of gun control.

    The SCOTUS also ruled Lincoln suspending habius corpus was constitutional. How do you feel about that?

    There are large parts of the world where Marx thoughts on wage slavery are still relevant. Ironically China being the biggest example, a country that claims to be Communist.

    Wage slavery applies as much in the west as anywhere else. Basically Marx has two classes – those who profit from labour/useful work and those who do the useful work. Capitalist and worker.

    Nearly everything is borrowed in Marx or changed. What's really happening isn't that money flows not just to people with capital but to insiders, from rich public servants to capitalists, landlords, property owners if their property increases above the rate of wage inflation or GDP, managers etc.

    In fact standard right wing economics saw the entrepreneurial farmer as being exploited by landlordism. Marx was guilty of narrowing the list of exploiters.


  • Options
    #309
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Options
    #310
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,991 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    I'm pro marriage equality because it's morally right. I believe its constitutional because it's not forbidden in the constitution. I don't really know beyond that.

    Again I'll say, the 2nd amendment is irrelevant today. Regulated militias are no longer necessary to force farmers in Pennsylvania to pay their taxes. I don't know why the constitution hasn't been amended further to protect gun rights, to be honest. It's not without flaws in a modern world.

    We're agreed Marx is relevant then? You haven't rebutted that.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Options
    #311
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #312
    catbear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭catbear


    Mass school shootings is a right that scares me. But hey freedom...murica....


  • Options
    #313
    Banjoxed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Banjoxed


    catbear wrote: »
    Mass school shootings is a right that scares me. But hey freedom...murica....

    The freedom to commit mass murder but not for affordable health care according to Obama's critics. Yeah, go 'Murica :rolleyes:


  • Options
    #314
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,697 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    catbear wrote: »
    Mass school shootings is a right that scares me. But hey freedom...murica....
    Banjoxed wrote: »
    The freedom to commit mass murder but not for affordable health care according to Obama's critics. Yeah, go 'Murica :rolleyes:

    If this is all ye have to add then please do not post.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Options
    #315
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,991 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    I absolutely 100% agree with this statement. At no point did I say otherwise.
    If it's irrelevant, as you claim, why are presidential candidates heatedly debating the issue of Second Amendment rights? I'm confused. Please explain why there is so much debate and controversy over an amendment you claim is "irrelevant today."

    I will amend my opinion. The 2nd amendment should be irrelevant today. I should have zero relevance to the gun control debate.

    I have to say, your arguments about "wage slavery and worker oppression" in China brought a smile to my face. Don't you think it's a bit ironic that the Marxists have only started complaining about oppression in China since the Chinese embraced capitalism and began working their way out of the abject poverty and misery caused by decades of communism?

    Of course, the Marxists weren't complaining about "oppression" when Mao was slaughtering Chinese by the tens of millions; they were too busy cheering on the revolutionary struggle. In fact, the website Marxists.org contains an article, "In Praise of Mao Zedong."

    These apologists for mass murder are the people you would align yourself with?

    You know full well they are not. You also know that I am not really a Marxist. So we're agreed that Marx's thoughts on wager slavery are relevant today? If not can you present an rebuttal and not an attack on Marxists who supported Mao, who I won't support.

    Your original point, before you dragged it off to a debate on the 2nd amendment:
    Permabear wrote: »
    I'm not grasping any parallel between the rights granted by the Constitution, many of which are still valid today (unless you want to repeal the First Amendment, perhaps?), and the socioeconomic theories of Marx, which were grounded in the specifics of a Victorian factory system that no longer exists.

    Are the conditions in the developing world better than those that existed in a Victorian factory system? I would contend they are more unfair.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Options
    #316
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Options
    #317
    lochderg
    Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭lochderg


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.
    do you seriously suggest that people with left leanings -be they marxist or socialist condone the slaughter of millions?-come on-you've done that stuff for decades-we've all moved on-nobody buys the neocon nihilistic argument anymore


  • Options
    #318
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Options
    #319
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,991 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    Why didn't you just say that to begin with, instead of bringing in historical relevance?

    How did working conditions change in the west post the industrial revolution? Was it benevolent employers realising they were under valuing their workers or was it workers organising and demanding better conditions? Do you believe the labour union was an enormous waste of time because things would have naturally improved?

    Is it your honest contention that labour is not exploited in the name of profit? There is overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
    In the multinational sector, at least, working conditions are much better. In the domestic sector, they're not so good. Then again, the left doesn't care about the domestic manufacturing sector in countries like Indonesia, where most of the abuse happens.

    "The left" doesn't care about worker exploitation in Indonesia? That's news to me, as a member of "the left".

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Options
    #320
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


Advertisement