Buying land to let it grow wild

Arbie

I'm looking to buy about 10 acres of rural land for recreation. I plan to let some of it grow wild, including grassland and non-commercial forest, plus a small orchard. This is really a project for my family - wild land to give back to nature. It doesn't need to be prime land or in a great location.

I'd be grateful for advice on:
- potential pitfalls
- cheapest location (almost anywhere except Ulster, Kerry, Cork, Sligo would be ok)
- best way to find properties

Thanks in advance.

Muckit

Local estate agents. Daft. ie.

Why do you have to own it? Plenty of 'wild" land in the country. Coillte and bord na mona have open walks and cycle trails open to the public to explore for free, won't cost you a penny.

Muckit

If you are still keen to purchase, buy land suitable for planting and grow trees. At least it's an investment and your kids will see the benefit of it. The crop could pay or at least subsidise their college costs.

Nekarsulm

http://www.donedeal.ie/otherproperty-for-sale/for-sale-100-acres-of-land/10191775

why not buy 100 acres ?

percy212

450 an acre? What's the catch?

Nekarsulm

percy212 wrote: »

450 an acre? What's the catch?

Must be bog, or the side of a mountain.
My uncle sold his wee place in Leitrim in the spring, 8 acres of goodish land and a nicely modernised bungalow plus a few sheds. 97k
OP could get a nice spot in Leitrim, Cavan, Roscommon at more reasonable prices than further South or East.

tomieen jones

percy212 wrote: »

450 an acre? What's the catch?

Its a cliff face

djmc

To be honest I think that idea is as mad as a bag of bats.
If you let land go wild you will not be able to walk through it as it will be over grown with brambles briars and bushes after a few years
To be able to walk it you will need to manage it either by topping or grazing grassland and pruning woodland which will cost money or labour annually.
For 10 acres you could be talking between 50 and 100k for purchase and then upkeep thereafter.
I would think about return on investment and what way to work it to make a return.

Birdnuts

You'll need some sort of grazing and topping regime if the grassland is to be of any benefit to bees,wild flowers etc. Otherwise it will just grow rank and be of limited use for man or beast. I suggest you seek advice on this from one of the many national conservation groups working in this area or even Teagasc/private advisors who have worked on schemes like REP's and GLAS

Arbie

I grew up farming and like some of our neighbours we (the kids) had several acres for ourselves that we let grow wild, had a few sheep on, set an orchard, kept bees, etc. Relatively low maintenance. It was a fantastic playground and formed our love and respect for the land and wildlife.

Due to work I can only live in an urban area so we can't do all of these things (animals, bees are out), but we want to have a place that we can look after and enjoy. I'm not worried about the practical side of it as we managed our larger plot at home with no bother, but I'm doing a course anyway. It's not going to be an investment and we understand that it will cost money and labour, that's fine by us.

I was just curious if there was a way other than Daft/DoneDeal, etc. to locate a spot and whether there are new laws or rules that would interfere. I'll talk to Teagasc. Thanks for all the suggestions and advice.

tomieen jones

Arbie wrote: »

I grew up farming and like some of our neighbours we (the kids) had several acres for ourselves that we let grow wild, had a few sheep on, set an orchard, kept bees, etc. Relatively low maintenance. It was a fantastic playground and formed our love and respect for the land and wildlife.

Due to work I can only live in an urban area so we can't do all of these things (animals, bees are out), but we want to have a place that we can look after and enjoy. I'm not worried about the practical side of it as we managed our larger plot at home with no bother, but I'm doing a course anyway. It's not going to be an investment and we understand that it will cost money and labour, that's fine by us.

I was just curious if there was a way other than Daft/DoneDeal, etc. to locate a spot and whether there are new laws or rules that would interfere. I'll talk to Teagasc. Thanks for all the suggestions and advice.

This is so romantic

Timmaay

Nama seem to be doing a great job of leaving land sitting idle around the country, you should ask one of them for advice!

Bullocks

Timmaay wrote: »

Nama seem to be doing a great job of leaving land sitting idle around the country, you should ask one of them for advice!

I'd say any nama land up your way won't be idle for much longer !

djmc

Some animals like goats are very low maintenance and once fenced in right and have water and shelter will basically look after themselves.
They can be good pets for children and look after grass and weeds once there not too highly stocked.
An orchard will need time to get established grass and weeds need to be keeped clear from around the base of the trees and fertilised and pruned back in February.
Some Animals or goats could eat the bark of trees and kill them so would need to be fenced out or run chicken wire around the bark.
Other type trees might grow and mature faster while the kids are still young and maybe get a grant for planting and growing them and leave a return for your children some day in clearfell.
If you don't want to keep animals top or cut with lawnmower twice a year.
Even cut a pathway through it to walk would keep a corradoor open for birds and wildlife.
Try buy good dry land or all you will have is rushes.
Keep an eye on daft or my home.ie or property. ie you might get some scrubland at the right price.
Only spa or sac land will have restrictions on what you can do with it.
Best of luck

Timmaay

Bullocks wrote: »

I'd say any nama land up your way won't be idle for much longer !

There's 180 acres of the best of tillage land a few miles away sitting idle growing weeds for the last 3yrs, several local farmers have unsuccessfully tried to rent it on conacre.

Markcheese

I think it could be a fantastic plan - but remember that land just left to go totally wild will probably be inaccessable - as someone else said some forestry on land could be a great option if planned well - (appropriate tree types- clearings left in areas- even lakes and ponds dug out in very low lying spots -, friends of mine got a bulldozer in to dig a huge lake in a very wet field -and planted the shores -looks great- grass and meadowland will need grazing or mowing to stop it becoming overgrown -not impossible to get a local farmer to cut patches once a year for hay or silage . Head to areas where land is cheap - find small local estate agents -ask around - May take a while-

keep going

Oh please dont buy good land to do this and the some of us fighting briars bush water and rock to make land good

beveragelady

I had the same plan when I bought my house. I have eight acres of land, a pond, a river, a boggy bit and a nice dry hill, south facing. All I want is to have my own tiny patch of wilderness, so I spent a year collecting saplings and seedlings of ash, oak, beech and some other species. I moved in six months ago and I've been tapping away at the planting since then. The whole thing a slow process as I have a full time job and other responsibilities so I rarely get to spend a solid day at it. For financial reasons and reasons of stubborn pride I'm determined to do it all myself. I know it'll be years before I have woodland, and I know there'll be no financial return, but I love the idea of returning the land to nature. I have a beehive and there's lots of wildlife, including a hen harrier that visits regularly. The pond is teeming with life, it's a nature-lovers heaven.
I have no advice to offer the OP as I'm just starting out myself, except to say that if you keep looking your perfect property will come on the market. I wanted a tiny house on eight acres and I had very specific requirements as to location. I almost gave up on the dream so many times, people told me I was unrealistic, that there'd be a property boom and I'd be priced out of the market, that I'd end up renting when I'm getting the pension.
Now I have hedges full of blackberries and a river full of trout and a lifetime's planting and fun ahead.

Capercaillie

Arbie wrote: »

I'm looking to buy about 10 acres of rural land for recreation. I plan to let some of it grow wild, including grassland and non-commercial forest, plus a small orchard. This is really a project for my family - wild land to give back to nature. It doesn't need to be prime land or in a great location.

I'd be grateful for advice on:
- potential pitfalls
- cheapest location (almost anywhere except Ulster, Kerry, Cork, Sligo would be ok)
- best way to find properties

Thanks in advance.

I have done something similar. From farming background, but have bought 25 acres in West Mayo which I manage for wildlife. In the NPWS Corncrake farm plan. Have breeding corncrake , skylark and during winter barnacle, greylag geese, jack snipe, snipe and hopefully larger numbers of twite next year. I have planted roughly 1 acre of iris, nettles with another 1-2 acres of nettles to plant hopefully. I mow once a year in mid-September and a bit of aftermath grazing at 0.3LSU/Ha to prevent meadows becoming rank (useless). Put a lot of work in planting nettles/iris. All done by hand.
The local farmers used to call me "The Yank" because I came in and bought up land, but now they consider me local because I'm out working the land the whole time.
NETTLE BED

IRIS BED

HAY MEADOW

Muckit wrote: »

Local estate agents. Daft. ie.

Why do you have to own it? Plenty of 'wild" land in the country. Coillte and bord na mona have open walks and cycle trails open to the public to explore for free, won't cost you a penny.

keep going wrote: »

Oh please dont buy good land to do this and the some of us fighting briars bush water and rock to make land good

Practically all Coillte forests are non-native sitka spruce monocultures and would probably not be considered wild. They are mostly sterile of native wildlife.

beveragelady wrote: »

I had the same plan when I bought my house. I have eight acres of land, a pond, a river, a boggy bit and a nice dry hill, south facing. All I want is to have my own tiny patch of wilderness, so I spent a year collecting saplings and seedlings of ash, oak, beech and some other species. I moved in six months ago and I've been tapping away at the planting since then. The whole thing a slow process as I have a full time job and other responsibilities so I rarely get to spend a solid day at it. For financial reasons and reasons of stubborn pride I'm determined to do it all myself. I know it'll be years before I have woodland, and I know there'll be no financial return, but I love the idea of returning the land to nature. I have a beehive and there's lots of wildlife, including a hen harrier that visits regularly. The pond is teeming with life, it's a nature-lovers heaven.
I have no advice to offer the OP as I'm just starting out myself, except to say that if you keep looking your perfect property will come on the market. I wanted a tiny house on eight acres and I had very specific requirements as to location. I almost gave up on the dream so many times, people told me I was unrealistic, that there'd be a property boom and I'd be priced out of the market, that I'd end up renting when I'm getting the pension.
Now I have hedges full of blackberries and a river full of trout and a lifetime's planting and fun ahead.

Sounds brilliant!

ganmo

As far as laws you'll have to know about the first on the list should be the noxious weed act

Miname

Is it realistic to think you'll make use of it. Personally I think it's a desperate waste of ground but that's my opinion and if you can afford to buy ground to let it grow wild, then fair play. A hobby small holding with beehives a veg plot and a few animals is something I can see how people may go for, but to buy land to turn rough it'll be at least twenty years before trees will start to get to any decent size and at least five even before briars will start to take over so unless your kids aren't born yet I would say they'll have flown the nest before any form of appreciation will be there to be realised. Otherwise they may just think there auld man is cracked.

Base price

OP you could contact auctioneers in the counties that you are interested in
http://www.gov.ie/services/view-register-of-licensed-auctioneers-and-house-agents/
Best of luck

Bullocks

Timmaay wrote: »

There's 180 acres of the best of tillage land a few miles away sitting idle growing weeds for the last 3yrs, several local farmers have unsuccessfully tried to rent it on conacre.

Down here lads don't ask anyone to rent it , they just throw a few animals in and hope for the best . Two lads actually fought over one bit and neither of them owning it !

Cow Porter

this is madness, buying ag land to grow weeds?? there is enough ditches, hedges, bog, woods, nama land etc for the birds and the bees to keep happy.

there are people starving in this world we live in and the whole civilisation is dependant on the land. Even if the farmer isn't getting the prices he should.

if you want to be with nature take a trip to a lake / beach / woodland / bog. there are plenty places around the country. please don't turn productive land into what many would call waste. I do not mean to offend but... why???

Capercaillie

Cow Porter wrote: »

this is madness, buying ag land to grow weeds?? there is enough ditches, hedges, bog, woods, nama land etc for the birds and the bees to keep happy.

there are people starving in this world we live in and the whole civilisation is dependant on the land. Even if the farmer isn't getting the prices he should.

if you want to be with nature take a trip to a lake / beach / woodland / bog. there are plenty places around the country. please don't turn productive land into what many would call waste. I do not mean to offend but... why???

One man's weed is another man's crop! Some people would call monocultures of ryegrass a waste as well.
It would be great if there was enough decent habitat for threatened farmland birds/bees. (ditches, hedges, bog, woods). The truth is different though. Most traditional farmland bird species like corncrake, lapwing, breeding curlew, grey partridge, skylark are absent from most of the Country now. A balance between productive farming and having a small bit of room for threatened wildlife would be ideal.

Base price

Hopefully GLAS Wild Bird Cover scheme will help our wild bird population.
Does anyone know if the seed mix includes flowers for pollinators. I would like to include a flower mix after reading the All Ireland Pollinator Plan.
http://www.biodiversityireland.ie/projects/irish-pollinator-initiative/all-ireland-pollinator-plan/

kowtow

Capercaillie wrote: »

One man's weed is another man's crop!

Now that sounds like a plan. Keep the farmers, the nature lovers, and the hipsters happy all at the same time.

Limestone Cowboy

Capercaillie wrote: »

One man's weed is another man's crop! Some people would call monocultures of ryegrass a waste as well.
It would be great if there was enough decent habitat for threatened farmland birds/bees. (ditches, hedges, bog, woods). The truth is different though. Most traditional farmland bird species like corncrake, lapwing, breeding curlew, grey partridge, skylark are absent from most of the Country now. A balance between productive farming and having a small bit of room for threatened wildlife would be ideal.

Letting a place grow wild won't help the bees any more than a monoculture. What they need is species rich grassland and a place that is overgrown with rank vegetation won't be that.

Timmaay

Bullocks wrote: »

Down here lads don't ask anyone to rent it , they just throw a few animals in and hope for the best . Two lads actually fought over one bit and neither of them owning it !

Haha, I know of a few blocks of land with that happening in them also! Bloody knackers with their horses are the worst for it...

yosemitesam1

Cow Porter wrote: »

this is madness, buying ag land to grow weeds?? there is enough ditches, hedges, bog, woods, nama land etc for the birds and the bees to keep happy.

there are people starving in this world we live in and the whole civilisation is dependant on the land. Even if the farmer isn't getting the prices he should.

if you want to be with nature take a trip to a lake / beach / woodland / bog. there are plenty places around the country. please don't turn productive land into what many would call waste. I do not mean to offend but... why???

What's rare is wonderful

There's more than enough productive land around the world to feed everyone and there's a lot more to life than cows and grain

barnaman

Good luck OP. I have an acre and a half left beside a tillage field completelt untouched for 30 years. Not too rank the briars not taken over and alders and thorns etc on it but again not taken over. Lots of white grass good for the small animalsl intetersingly the white grass when not grazed out compites the docks and ragwort none on it. Use it to connect to a wood. Like Cap says leave a bit for the wildlife. I leave corners of fields and have one wide hedgerow out of the four in a field so they connect properly. Like seeing wildlife on the farm.
Meant to add the land was left deliberately. Ivy in trees another great fav of my father for shelter for bird although i think its bad as tales over trees,

Nekarsulm

Cow Porter wrote: »

.

there are people starving in this world we live in and the whole civilisation is dependant on the land. Even if the farmer isn't getting the prices he should.

30% of all food grown is lost to spoilage, waste, eaten by rodents while in storage, or rots before use due to poor distribution.

If the OP has the price of it, best of luck with the plan. I mean, none of us really need houses the size we have, we don't need a conservatory or a new car or induction hobs or €1500 vacuum cleaners.

If needs be, a tank full of Roundup and Brushwood Killer, and a run of a mulcher, and you're back in business.

Capercaillie

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

Letting a place grow wild won't help the bees any more than a monoculture. What they need is species rich grassland and a place that is overgrown with rank vegetation won't be that.

Capercaillie wrote: »

. I mow once a year in mid-September and a bit of aftermath grazing at 0.3LSU/Ha to prevent meadows becoming rank (useless). Put a lot of work in planting nettles/iris. All done by hand.

My meadows are species rich machair meadows. Would not be as bio-diverse as your grassland on the burren though.

ishotjr2

Fair play to ye OP.

Consider a quad & trailer, better than lugging stuff around a wet hill quad keeps the paths open, will get most places and lighter on the ground than a tractor.

kerry cow

The world needs you, to balance the few hundred acres I love to spray to keep weed free and the kilometres of hedging I cut yearly to stop encroaching on my land .how I hate waste . Enjoy your project and I will enjoy mine .

ishotjr2

kerry cow wrote: »

The world needs you, to balance the few hundred acres I love to spray to keep weed free and the kilometres of hedging I cut yearly to stop encroaching on my land .how I hate waste . Enjoy your project and I will enjoy mine .

Not trying to tell ye your business, cause I am an amateur. But found this recently about earthworms and spray https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/03/140325113232.htm I heard from a local farmer it is a big problem in UK.

kerry cow

Totally agree but can't have it both ways

davidk1394

ishotjr2 wrote: »

Not trying to tell ye your business, cause I am an amateur. But found this recently about earthworms and spray https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/03/140325113232.htm I heard from a local farmer it is a big problem in UK.

That and continuous ploughing has a big impact on the earthworm population in the ground.

El Kabong!

I did this. Just bought land that suited by browsing the various estate agent websites.
There is nothing wrong with doing nothing, and letting nature take it's own course but I would have a plan in place to avoid potential future problems such as:

- briars encroaching etc
- hedgerow trimming/maintenance
- anything growing that will impact neighbours

apart from that you can do what you want. I am planting willow for fuel, and orchard, beehives, native trees etc etc.

ishotjr2

Willow is a good idea, will look into that.

I have about 1 acre with Native trees for the last 4 years, frankly it is not going well. The bracken is a killer. This year is the first year I took out the strimmer and cleared them 4 times between may & September. Made a huge difference.

My little orchard is a disaster. How are you planning on doing this? Are you using drills any thoughts on tree species.

I have Red Falstaff, Discovery, Kerry Pippin the only one happy is the Red Falstaffe.

Buford T. Justice XIX

ishotjr2 wrote: »

Not trying to tell ye your business, cause I am an amateur. But found this recently about earthworms and spray https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/03/140325113232.htm I heard from a local farmer it is a big problem in UK.

There is so much wrong with that 'article' it's difficult to know where to start!

There is no mention of the soil management in the organic soil but I'm guessing that it is grassland and not tillage crops, from previous 'revelations' from organic supporters.

There is no mention of what sprays were used and their timing and rate and, frankly, my head hurts from reading an article like that so I'll leave it there:(

yosemitesam1

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

There is so much wrong with that 'article' it's difficult to know where to start!

There is no mention of the soil management in the organic soil but I'm guessing that it is grassland and not tillage crops, from previous 'revelations' from organic supporters.

There is no mention of what sprays were used and their timing and rate and, frankly, my head hurts from reading an article like that so I'll leave it there:(

The original article seems fairly ok as long as the dose was realistic. It was all completed in a lab so the small sample size (11per treatment) and the short lenght mean the effects might not necessarily scale up in the real world.
Have one about sward diversity reducing earthworm biomass by something mad like 60-80% as it went from >15 to one somewhere here, I'll see can I find it.

Liveen

Arbie, I commend your idea and it is wonderful to know that people like you actually do exist. I am looking to do the same myself, i.e.: acquire c10 acres of land near me, and plant and manage it solely for wildlife. The making of profit on the exercise is not a concern and never will be. Alas, I'll need my numbers to come up in the lotto first. Here's hoping :rolleyes:

80sDiesel

And I am one more!
Got given 12 acres( mountain ) Have an interest in everything from wildflowers to forestry. Thought about just renewing the lease to the local sheep farmer but reading this thread has confirmed that if I am mad to take this on, well I am not alone.
Just found my new hobby.

waterfaerie

It's great to see that there are plenty of people out there who care about the wildlife.

We bought a cottage on 8 acres just over a year ago. It's reasonably good land but extremely compacted from stock. It had been continuously grazed for decades until we bought it. The locals probably think we're mad but who cares. We're not necessarily letting it just go wild (although it probably looks like that to people now!) but we are trying to restore it to native habitat for wildlife. We've already dug a natural pond and it's full of life now.

We've been approved for the native woodland scheme and are going to plant about half of the land with that. The planting should start in the next couple of weeks so we're very excited. The plan is to do continuous cover and never clear fell it.

We've set aside about a quarter of the land to use for private gardens and for growing our own food. We got a huge polytunnel and have built some permaculture style beds both inside it and outside. We had a small harvest this year but hope to expand in the future. We'll plant an orchard here as well.

The other quarter we plan to leave for wildflower meadow and maybe some other plants for ground cover. We haven't really looked into that side of it yet as we've been focusing on the trees as well as on renovating the cottage. We'll definitely consult with conservation workers when we get to that stage.

We've learned that it's a lot of work and is taking a lot more time than we thought, but I've seen other places that have gone from bare grass that's overly compacted from grazing to land that's full of native plants, trees and wildlife and we are prepared to be patient enough to get to that stage.

I'd be interested to hear how everyone else gets on and share ideas.

80sDiesel

That sounds so exciting. Perhaps we should start a new thread. Maybe the smallholdings subforum is a better place.
Any ideas on thread title ?
Going native .
Wild meadows.

Nekarsulm

80sDiesel wrote: »

That sounds so exciting. Perhaps we should start a new thread.
Any ideas on thread title ?
.

"Go wild, go wild, go wild in the country"
(Who remembers Bow Wow Wow? )

beveragelady

Possibly too late to apply for this now but there might be another opportunity. I'm waiting to hear details of my tree packs. I plan on using it to continue the planting I have begun. I'm on a budget of nearly zero so this is ideal!

http://www.onemilliontreesinoneday.com/

John_Rambo

Amazing idea OP! The kids will have some camping adventures there in the future. Hope you get what you want.

waterfaerie

beveragelady wrote: »

Possibly too late to apply for this now but there might be another opportunity. I'm waiting to hear details of my tree packs. I plan on using it to continue the planting I have begun. I'm on a budget of nearly zero so this is ideal!

http://www.onemilliontreesinoneday.com/

That sounds great! Please update on how it goes.

80sDiesel

Capercaillie wrote: »

IRIS BED

HAY MEADOW

Never heard the terms Iris Bed or Hay Meadow before but the pics look fantastic.
Would love to hear more about these ?
Also, what trees would you recommend?