I hate the M50 [Warning post #222]

_Kaiser_

FalconGirl wrote: »

To build more units close to the city centre which would hopefully make city living affordable. more affordable living leads to more disposable income to spend in the wider economy. The amount of people living at home in there mid twenties and early thirties because of the lack of decent affordable accommodation is astounding. A lot of these people commute to Dublin by car each morning clogging up the roads.

Its not just residential high rise that's needed but also office space. Companies are queuing up to invest in Ireland, however the space is becoming hard to find. We need to be thinking a step ahead. To be honest, housing policy is dictated to benefit a few in Ireland. As another poster alluded to we are short sighted in this regard.

Ideally of course they'd also spread the jobs around a bit, but as bad as things are in Dublin, once you go beyond the county limits they get a lot worse in terms of infrastructure and public transport (unless it's somewhere like Cork or Galway)

I'd be much happier if I could get an equivalent job closer to home that didn't involve a 1000km weekly commute as I've no other reason to be in Dublin these days, but alas I work in IT and that means I've no choice really.

_Kaiser_

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I'd be much happier if I could get an equivalent job closer to home that didn't involve a 1000km weekly commute as I've no other reason to be in Dublin these days, but alas I work in IT and that means I've no choice really.

The way things are going, that desire is getting less and less likely in the future (in the same boat here). In the future it is more likely that the population will be concentrated in a few key cities and the only people living out in the sticks will be agricultural workers & ag support industries, everyone else will be in cities & commuter towns.

The current problems with the M50 may only be a transient phase.

aphex™

Umm pretty sure a lot of people, especially IT workers, can work from home.

If you can work from home why not live in the sticks in the future. Especially after fibre rollout.

aphex™

aphex™ wrote: »

Umm pretty sure a lot of people, especially IT workers, can work from home.

If you can work from home why not live in the sticks in the future. Especially after fibre rollout.

We could, if our bosses allowed it, but most businesses have issues with their staff being "out of sight!", we could do all our meeting with video conferencing systems as well. The main problem it that most jobs are in the "service industry" that require stall on site.

So, the future will mean more people moving closer to where they work and businesses "clustering" in cities to ensure that they can tap into a large enough "talent pool.

Those of us out in the sticks are going to be left high & dry, hoping for that elusive local job or one in a company that allows remote working.
Alternatively continue to put up with long commutes on overcrowded motorways (or trains) until retirement or contemplate moving into the city with its overpriced shoeboxes.

I don't have too many years left before retirement, so I'll just let the train take the strain.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

aphex™

Well, it's a failure of management that they can only trust workers sitting in front of them (even if they're surfing the web).

Hopefully management theory will have moved on in a few years, or these bad managers will have, so that more people can telework and the m50/ traffic in general will decrease!

EDIT: How about a tax incentive to enable teleworking?

Irish Steve

Teleworking is all very well, but the infrastructure required can be a lot more complex than just having Fibre broadband. For programmers, who are working with source code, the upload speed of the link is as important as the download speed, and most fibre systems are heavily loaded in favour of "entertainment", with fast download, and dire upload speeds,

For Customer support, a home worker would need an extension off the company PABX, or similar using VOIP, so that they can consult with colleagues when they encounter an issue that needs to be discussed, or referred to another department, which is not possible at present with the way that phone services are structured, though the technology is there now, just not made available by the Telco providers,

Then there's the very real problem that most residential properties can't easily accommodate a full blown "work" environment, home working will require a bit more than sticking a laptop on the kitchen worktop for it to be truly productive, and it will also require that the person "home working" is able to be committed to work, and that doesn't mean they are also going to be child minding part time as well, which is the fear for some managers. There are also issues around the use of the home as part of a place of employment with some of the more complex health & Safety issues related to issues like smoking, VDU use, "office" seating, lighting, and space, which could have Human Resources and the like in knots for the next century!

Irish Steve

Irish Steve wrote: »

Teleworking is all very well, but the infrastructure required can be a lot more complex than just having Fibre broadband. For programmers, who are working with source code, the upload speed of the link is as important as the download speed, and most fibre systems are heavily loaded in favour of "entertainment", with fast download, and dire upload speeds,

For Customer support, a home worker would need an extension off the company PABX, or similar using VOIP, so that they can consult with colleagues when they encounter an issue that needs to be discussed, or referred to another department, which is not possible at present with the way that phone services are structured, though the technology is there now, just not made available by the Telco providers,

Then there's the very real problem that most residential properties can't easily accommodate a full blown "work" environment, home working will require a bit more than sticking a laptop on the kitchen worktop for it to be truly productive, and it will also require that the person "home working" is able to be committed to work, and that doesn't mean they are also going to be child minding part time as well, which is the fear for some managers. There are also issues around the use of the home as part of a place of employment with some of the more complex health & Safety issues related to issues like smoking, VDU use, "office" seating, lighting, and space, which could have Human Resources and the like in knots for the next century!

Most of these issues can be resolved by having fully equipped office accommodation made available in regional towns, where a teleworker's employer can rent office space.
Such a solution would benefit both employer & employee as the place of work is closer to home and is cheaper for the employer to rent than city centre office space.

Simple things like this would "cure" the M50 overcrowding far more effectively than extra lanes and the like.

magicbastarder

Irish Steve wrote: »

There are also issues around the use of the home as part of a place of employment with some of the more complex health & Safety issues related to issues like smoking, VDU use, "office" seating, lighting, and space, which could have Human Resources and the like in knots for the next century!

yep, your employer is responsible for providing a safe workplace, so if your employer encourages you to work from home, they then become responsible for your home office.
the approach in ireland with a lot of companies seems to be one of enabling the option but not providing any impetus either way. so the employee who chooses to work from home (but has an option to go in to a fully serviced office) takes responsibility for the home office.

_Kaiser_

Just to agree with the posts above and expand on my own situation a bit

As above, I work in IT myself for a multinational in Dublin and I am at a level where I CAN work from home/anywhere really with only a laptop and phone needed to connect me, and I actually do this one day a week. For the rest of the week I then work my hours as such that I miss the worst of the traffic at both ends and still get everything I need done (as I have global responsibilities this actually works out better too).

The problem though is that, as others have said, the attitude from most senior-level managers is that WFH is not something to be encouraged as you can't be "monitored" or is treated as some sort of perk available only to those at senior level rather than something that (if done properly) could benefit the staff and business alike.... and that's in a tech multinational - I can only imagine the response you'd get in smaller businesses.

Then you have the problem where being offsite (whether WFM, sick/annual leave, or even on business) is seen as being "out", and leaves you excluded from those water cooler/random drop in to someone's office meetings where a lot of actually important decisions can be made. There are times when I've been in the office for no other real reason than to sort something out in this fashion.

The point about having an appropriate space to work though is a valid one.. most of my role involves managing support teams and department operations. This requires me to be able to attend conference calls, make and receive calls and deal with stuff via IM and email - not easily done if you have a toddler looking to play because (from their perspective) Daddy is "off" too.

I like the idea of a local office block where space could be rented though, but given that there are people trekking to Dublin from places like Louth, Meath, Cavan, Laois, Kildare and even further, I can't see employers going for it as it'd be a administrative nightmare trying to keep track of it all. Plus as I say, the whole WFM/flexi-working concept as a whole doesn't seem to fit the underlying mindset of most employers anyway.

Unfortunately the prediction that things are only likely to only get worse is probably the most accurate one

savagethegoat

Years ago I worked from home, covering a few counties, and the problem I found was the boss phoning me and when I answered saying " what are you doing there?" Why phone me if you don't expect me to be there you fool! Pre-mobile days , would not be the same problem now I guess.

Irish Steve

There's another issue with shared office facilities that will be harder to overcome, and that's the one related to company confidential information. It's not too hard to keep people out of sensitive areas in a company office, but to do so in a shared facility could be a lot more complex, and make for very tricky relationships between the management of the facility, and the user groups. Then there's the problem of the management of the IT structure in the shared facility, what might be completely acceptable in terms of firewall and anti virus protection for one company could be completely unusable for another company.

The theory is good, the practicality is a lot more complex than just having a "shared" office, and will take some serious commitment to get it to work

RainyDay

Irish Steve wrote: »

There's another issue with shared office facilities that will be harder to overcome, and that's the one related to company confidential information. It's not too hard to keep people out of sensitive areas in a company office, but to do so in a shared facility could be a lot more complex, and make for very tricky relationships between the management of the facility, and the user groups. Then there's the problem of the management of the IT structure in the shared facility, what might be completely acceptable in terms of firewall and anti virus protection for one company could be completely unusable for another company.

The theory is good, the practicality is a lot more complex than just having a "shared" office, and will take some serious commitment to get it to work

Are you overcomplicating it a bit? How about the only IT infrastructure they provide is decent wifi, and let people use their own VPNs for security?

Then provide a lockable locker for paperwork, and you're sorted - no?

ThisRegard

RainyDay wrote: »

Are you overcomplicating it a bit? How about the only IT infrastructure they provide is decent wifi, and let people use their own VPNs for security?

Then provide a lockable locker for paperwork, and you're sorted - no?

Nope, some clients won't even let you work in your own companies facility unless they carry out a full security audit of the facility and it meets a number of criteria such as access control etc. This is especially true if you have access to their production databases.

You can't use any VPN either, needs to be approved by both your own company and the client. You can run into problems also with your home or shared office IP address not in the approved list, and a client may not go to the bother of approving individual ones outside of your company's designated network ones.

You then also have the infrastructure issue, your company may have an agreement with one provider while you're with another, they'll more than likely pay anyway but you could be in the situation where you're with UPC but are required to use Eircom.

There's a lot of bloody hoops to go through.

RainyDay

ThisRegard wrote: »

Nope, some clients won't even let you work in your own companies facility unless they carry out a full security audit of the facility and it meets a number of criteria such as access control etc. This is especially true if you have access to their production databases.

You can't use any VPN either, needs to be approved by both your own company and the client. You can run into problems also with your home or shared office IP address not in the approved list, and a client may not go to the bother of approving individual ones outside of your company's designated network ones.

How do these clients deal with people working from home?

RainyDay

RainyDay wrote: »

How do these clients deal with people working from home?

Usually by getting their homeworkers to buy fixed IP addresses from their ISPs, they're not that expensive.
Then that IP address is added to the firewall's allowed list.
All of this can easily be done for a remote office as well if a dedicated IP address is assigned to the homeworker.
It all depends on the companies risk assessments and what they consider an acceptable risk, some businesses simply won't allow any data to leave the premises.

Dravokivich

Deleted User wrote: »

Usually by getting their homeworkers to buy fixed IP addresses from their ISPs, they're not that expensive.
Then that IP address is added to the firewall's allowed list.
All of this can easily be done for a remote office as well if a dedicated IP address is assigned to the homeworker.
It all depends on the companies risk assessments and what they consider an acceptable risk, some businesses simply won't allow any data to leave the premises.

Ehm... VPN?

That's what my job has. And our clients use it as well.

ThisRegard

RainyDay wrote: »

How do these clients deal with people working from home?

I've actually worked with one who insisted I worked at home until they audited the office. In other cases we've got around the IP range by VPN'ing into our own network and hopping from there into the client. You have to go through a variety of firewalls and security measures so they're usually OK with that.

RainyDay

ThisRegard wrote: »

I've actually worked with one who insisted I worked at home until they audited the office. In other cases we've got around the IP range by VPN'ing into our own network and hopping from there into the client. You have to go through a variety of firewalls and security measures so they're usually OK with that.

Would be interesting to understand their logic that the home was more secure than the office, had they audited the home environment?

ThisRegard

It was regards to over the shoulder surfing of their sensitive client data, colleagues and others sharing the office say working on a competitors project didn't have the clearance I had at the time.

With encryption on my laptop and VPN they were happy with that type of security and that it wasn't very likely a neighbour was going to try hack and decrypt my packets.

It was the lesser of two evils I suppose and a box ticking exercise for their compliance audit.

Dravokivich

Dravokivich wrote: »

Ehm... VPN?

That's what my job has. And our clients use it as well.

A VPN that can only be created from specific remote public IP addresses that are allowed through the firewall, this required the client to have a fixed IP address.

Muahahaha

Apple down in Cork have lots of customer service jobs that are done from home.
I'd imagine there is somewhere in the region of 50,000 call centre workers in Dublin, the vast majority who could work from home. Call centers already run software in house to track productivity of workers, time spent on each call, % of first call resolution, number of calls taken per week, etc so ensuring each employee is productive at home would be no more difficult than it is right now in an office environment. It seems to work well for Apple so no reason it couldn't work likewise for ebay, PayPal, Hertz, etc.

ThisRegard

It depends on the role you're doing, if you're working in trouble shooting you need little security as the most you might be dealing with is a customers name and address. If you're on development you'll have access to proprietary and expensive software and IP. Doing support for banking, insurance etc you'll have access to highly confidential data, both belonging to the client you work for and their clients.

It's not so black and white in a lot of instances.

mockingjay

Absolutely dreading the thought of another year commuting on this M50.... feels like I'm taking my life in my hands every day... very happy in my job but the M50 commute puts a knot in my stomach every morning Leaving the house at silly am, arriving at work one and half hours before I'm due to start - constantly exhausted... if I leave this job I'll have to go back on temporary unreliable contracts with few prospects of a permanent position... no other transport options available for my commute unfortunately.

gogreen81

mockingjay wrote: »

Absolutely dreading the thought of another year commuting on this M50.... feels like I'm taking my life in my hands every day... very happy in my job but the M50 commute puts a knot in my stomach every morning Leaving the house at silly am, arriving at work one and half hours before I'm due to start - constantly exhausted... if I leave this job I'll have to go back on temporary unreliable contracts with few prospects of a permanent position... no other transport options available for my commute unfortunately.

DITTO!!

fortunately i got an option to work in the city centre office of mine from the day i was supposed to take the M50 after change of house..
not been on M50 for last 1 yr but the thought going back to that road and playing with your life was dreadful.

savagethegoat

It does make me wonder how some of you would fare on some of the UK motorways which really are busy, M25 for instance. The key thing about the M50 is there aren't many miles of it and no jam on it can be truly huge surely.

Where on earth can you be coming from mockingjay to necessitate being 1.5 hours early for work? No journey on the m50 even at the very peak would take and hour and a half surely

mockingjay

[quote="savagethegoat
Where on earth can you be coming from mockingjay to necessitate being 1.5 hours early for work? No journey on the m50 even at the very peak would take and hour and a half surely[/quote]

Just outside Swords to near Saggart, if I'm not on the M50 by 6.50, I'm caught in gridlock - get to work at 7.30, if I leave at 7.20 or later I'm sitting in queues and often push it to be in for 9 (using a tank of petrol!) - too unreliable, too stressful sitting at Blanchardstown wondering if I'll move at all, constantly alert... inching, inching forward. Very strict on punctuality in our place, (like others I know). Don't tolerate M50 excuses. I'm doing this journey for the past five years, so I know the routine well, three years ago I could leave at 7.40 and be there with ease, year before last 7.20 and last year 6.50 - it's getting crazy

Also lived in the UK before - variety of jobs often enables you to work closer to home or use alternative transport systems, always tried to live near a tube station! If I took public transport here it would take me as long!

plodder

mockingjay wrote: »

Just outside Swords to near Saggart, if I'm not on the M50 by 6.50, I'm caught in gridlock - get to work at 7.30, if I leave at 7.20 or later I'm sitting in queues and often push it to be in for 9 - too unreliable, too stressful sitting at Blanchardstown wondering if I'll move at all. Very strict on punctuality in our place, (like others I know). Don't tolerate M50 excuses. I'm doing this journey for the past five years, so I know the routine well, three years ago I could leave at 7.40 and be there with ease, year before last 7.20 and last year 6.50 - it's getting crazy

Email your TDs and other election candidates, and tell them to get the finger out with Metro North, Dart underground etc. The M50 is only going to get worse at peak times.

mockingjay

plodder wrote: »

Email your TDs and other election candidates, and tell them to get the finger out with Metro North, Dart underground etc. The M50 is only going to get worse at peak times.

Thanks plodder - that will help.... in about ten years!!!

Dravokivich

Deleted User wrote: »

A VPN that can only be created from specific remote public IP addresses that are allowed through the firewall, this required the client to have a fixed IP address.

Digital certificates, One time use Authentication codes. It really doesn't need all that messing about with IP Addresses. And my clients are financial groups and wealth management companies.