Direction changes at bridge in Celbridge

Peppa Pig

KCC Link
The maps don't appear to be up yet but from what I can make out
-Traffic coming from village must turn left after crossing the bridge
-No right turn from Hazelhatch road
-Traffic coming from Ardclough can only turn left.

A lot of traffic being diverted into housing estates, it won't suit some but will certainly suit the flow at the bridge itself.

I presume the long term solution is still another bridge.

Movie Maestro

This is an absolutely ridiculous change to make, bound to cause chaos! My daily commute is driving over the bridge from the main street and out the Hazelhatch road. Am I correct in saying that now when I will drive over the bridge from the main street that I'll be forced to turn left and drive all the way to Supervalu, stop at the lights, turn right and continue all the way around to the Hazelhatch road again to continue on my journey. This is craaaaaaaaazy and will add an extra 10 minutes at least to my journey time:mad::mad::mad:

My current morning commute is green:)
My diverted route is red:mad:

Peppa Pig

Movie Maestro wrote: »

I'll be forced to turn left and drive all the way to Supervalu, stop at the lights, turn right and continue all the way around to the Hazelhatch road again to continue on my journey. This is craaaaaaaaazy and will add an extra 10 minutes at least to my journey time

It's only 500m to the Supervalu turn and then another 500m back to the Hazelhatch road, and you need to factor in the time you will save both turning from English row and not being stopped at the bridge.

I think it will reduce your commute time. I do the reverse trip sometimes from the GAA club and it is certainly not anywhere near 10 minutes.

seamusk84

I have been living on the Ardclough road my whole live and will strongly oppose this if they try and implement it.

ronaneire

Peppa Pig wrote: »

It's only 500m to the Supervalu turn and then another 500m back to the Hazelhatch road, and you need to factor in the time you will save both turning from English row and not being stopped at the bridge.

I think it will reduce your commute time. I do the reverse trip sometimes from the GAA club and it is certainly not anywhere near 10 minutes.

Only 500m. However you have to contend with everyone else who will be either turning right for Ardclough or for Newcastle.

The problem I see is the lane for turning right at Supervalu is not long enough, and at peak the traffic will be backed up to the bridge anyhow.

In a sense it is a great idea. I would be opposed to it. If you are coming from Ardclough, you have to turn right and drive through a housing estate. Can't see the residence being too happy.

2ndcoming

My current commute! You'll live...

quadrifoglio verde

I can't see the residents of wolstans or simmonstown being happy. Short term, it makes sense but should only be put in place on the basis that a new bridge will be built.
Kildare county council approved planning applications for lots of development that has taken place in the last 20 years in celbridge which caused this problem to be so bad and collected levies from developers in doing so. It should come as no surprise to them that a new bridge is required.
Still though, it makes more sense than those stupid traffic lights they tried 15 years ago

Stealthirl

Hopefully it will help the flow out of the Town in the morning as IMHO its cars turning up the hatch rd that case a standstill.
There should also do something with the timeing of the 2 sets of lights at Apple and make the right turn lane longer.

The diversion through simmonstown was never going to be liked but that road was always going to be part of a ring road network.

quadrifoglio verde

Actually after watching traffic at the bridge today for a while and thinking about it, without widening the bridge and the main street, the only way to achieve a freeer flowing bridge and overall traffic in celbridge is my making it one way.
So if you're coming from Dublin, you can only turn left over the bridge towards clane.
So if your heading towards castletown etc you need to turn right after raphaels and down via tesco.
Then heading towards dublin the only way to do so would be coming down through the village and turning left onto the bridge

This plan for the hazel hatch and ardclough roads won't alleviate traffic as it stands, turning right into the village causes the traffic to back up to supervalu in rush hour. Likewise waiting for a break in traffic coming from the clane direction will still cause the back up in the village that we currently see everyday.

2ndcoming

The problem is two fold, but the first part of it is people turning right to go up the Hatch or Ardclough Rds when heading out of town over the bridge. This causes a backlog on the main st from both directions which then causes people to get blocked up on their way into the town who want to turn right or into the Village Inn Car park. People invariably block the yellow boxes on both sides or sit for a wet week waiting to turn because they can't drive, but there's not much you can't do about that.

The proposed changes def aren't a total solution but I think it'll make a dent, but we'll have to wait and see. Most of this was caused by those stupid traffic lights up at the Castle Village shops diverting people back on to the Dublin Rd to avoid the traffic up there. Allowing the Aldi to be built without a roundabout going in caused that particular mess. As usual most of these problems are the result of continuous bad planning at various stages of the towns development.

Riskymove

ronaneire wrote: »

. If you are coming from Ardclough, you have to turn right and drive through a housing estate. Can't see the residence being too happy.

While I agree that the residents won't be happy, you won't actually be driving through an estate (i.e. no houses directly on that road) rather a series of estates are off that road.

There will also be considerable issues in getting back out onto Hazelhatch road without traffic lights

Basically people won't be happy with any inconvenience but I do think they need to try something until a new bridge is built. However, I think they should also incorporate a no right turn into main street if it is to work.

I do think that the changes could be restricted to rush hour rather than 24 hours a day.

I am among the most inconvenienced by the proposals

quadrifoglio verde wrote:

Actually after watching traffic at the bridge today for a while and thinking about it, without widening the bridge and the main street, the only way to achieve a freeer flowing bridge and overall traffic in celbridge is my making it one way.

I agree and have proposed similar for Dublin Road and Hazelhatch road in previous discussions but like this, many are against any inconvenience

L1011

Riskymove wrote: »

There will also be considerable issues in getting back out onto Hazelhatch road without traffic lights

With most of the traffic currently coming down the Hazelhatch Road towards there and hence blocking cars coming out diverted, there probably won't be. Still won't be an instant turn, obviously.

Riskymove

L1011 wrote: »

With most of the traffic currently coming down the Hazelhatch Road towards there and hence blocking cars coming out diverted, there probably won't be. Still won't be an instant turn, obviously.

? wont all the traffic diverted that wanted to go out Hazelhatch road still end up on that stretch?

it can already be very difficult around school hours due to the school at the GAA grounds

People will also be turning right out to Hazelhatch

L1011

Riskymove wrote: »

? wont all the traffic diverted that wanted to go out Hazelhatch road still end up on that stretch?

it can already be very difficult around school hours due to the school at the GAA grounds

People will also be turning right out to Hazelhatch

Turning left from the Willow/Primrose Gate/Whatever Road on to the Hazelhatch road can currently take an age due to traffic coming down the Hazelhatch road from the village

That traffic won't be there anymore.

Riskymove

L1011 wrote: »

Turning left from the Willow/Primrose Gate/Whatever Road on to the Hazelhatch road can currently take an age due to traffic coming down the Hazelhatch road from the village

That traffic won't be there anymore.

You are talking about a different junction

I am referring to the road linking Hazelhatch and Ardclough Roads

guil

Riskymove wrote: »

You are talking about a different junction

I am referring to the road linking Hazelhatch and Ardclough Roads

There should be relatively no difference to that junction because any traffic going all the way to the bridge from the ardclough road will now be turning right into simmonstown and then turning left at the bottom of that road onto the hatch road.

Any traffic coming across the road linking the Dublin road and hatch road would of been coming up the hatch road anyway so it's much of a muchness really.

Davidth88

TBH , I think this is the only conclusion they could come up with .

The road linking Hazelhatch/Ardclough roads was built as a through road and I don't believe there are houses actually built onto it ( Ill have to look to be sure ) but it's a bit late now for the residents to suddenly realise it may be used for the purpose it was built.

They need to stop people parking in front of the Spar next to the Village Inn where there are double yellow lines already but more often than not someone is ignoring them, this does not help people turning right coming into the Village.


The should be a second bridge , but where you would build it I am not so sure . Really Celbridge does need a bypass coming from Clane with a new bridge upstream from the Village and join up with the Ardclough Rd.

Riskymove

Davidth88 wrote: »

The should be a second bridge , but where you would build it I am not so sure . Really Celbridge does need a bypass coming from Clane with a new bridge upstream from the Village and join up with the Ardclough Rd.

Have you seen the various proposals and preferred route for the new bridge?

There is an existing thread

2ndcoming

Davidth88 wrote: »

TBH , I think this is the only conclusion they could come up with .

The road linking Hazelhatch/Ardclough roads was built as a through road and I don't believe there are houses actually built onto it ( Ill have to look to be sure ) but it's a bit late now for the residents to suddenly realise it may be used for the purpose it was built.

They need to stop people parking in front of the Spar next to the Village Inn where there are double yellow lines already but more often than not someone is ignoring them, this does not help people turning right coming into the Village.


The should be a second bridge , but where you would build it I am not so sure . Really Celbridge does need a bypass coming from Clane with a new bridge upstream from the Village and join up with the Ardclough Rd.

It definitely wasn't built as a through road, it was built as the main avenue of Simmonstown Park estate and ended as a cul de sac for a good few years until Hazelhatch Park was built and the two main avenues were linked. There aren't any houses built directly on to it though so it would pretty much serve the same purpose as the Aghards Rd does at present.

Davidth88

2ndcoming wrote: »

It definitely wasn't built as a through road, it was built as the main avenue of Simmonstown Park estate and ended as a cul de sac for a good few years until Hazelhatch Park was built and the two main avenues were linked. There aren't any houses built directly on to it though so it would pretty much serve the same purpose as the Aghards Rd does at present.

What I was trying to say is when the two roads were linked , that was the time to object .

TBH it was ' obvious to a blind man ' what was going to happen as soon as that became a through road. I am actually surprised it's taken so long.

Aghards Rd the ramps ( which are a damn pain .... I live up that way ) do a good job if you consider there is a school with 600 odd kids and a playground ( all be it a desolate abused one )

Certainly they could put ramps on that road , I can't see what else they could do.

The double set of lights at Supervalu need to be looked at and make sure they are in sync etc . I don't see many other issues its going to be a bit of a pain for the residents of The Grove coming from Celbridge , may encourage them to walk :-)

Stealthirl

2ndcoming wrote: »

It definitely wasn't built as a through road, it was built as the main avenue of Simmonstown Park estate and ended as a cul de sac for a good few years until Hazelhatch Park was built and the two main avenues were linked. There aren't any houses built directly on to it though so it would pretty much serve the same purpose as the Aghards Rd does at present.

Actually im nearly sure it was,i remember looking at plans and it was mentioned on them that it would eventually become a through road when Hazelhatch Park would be built. It was a rare case where the CC actually thought of the future

2ndcoming

Davidth88 wrote: »

What I was trying to say is when the two roads were linked , that was the time to object .

TBH it was ' obvious to a blind man ' what was going to happen as soon as that became a through road. I am actually surprised it's taken so long.

Aghards Rd the ramps ( which are a damn pain .... I live up that way ) do a good job if you consider there is a school with 600 odd kids and a playground ( all be it a desolate abused one )

Certainly they could put ramps on that road , I can't see what else they could do.

The double set of lights at Supervalu need to be looked at and make sure they are in sync etc . I don't see many other issues its going to be a bit of a pain for the residents of The Grove coming from Celbridge , may encourage them to walk :-)

There's already ramps up there, just enough too, they're not as much of a nuisance as the Aghards ones. Hopefully they keep it like that...

vektarman

I can't find the link but it was planned as a through road when I saw the plans, the obvious solution is to build a second bridge to relieve the traffic at the present bridge but I wouldn't expect that any time soon.

Buffman

The KCC Maps are up showing the details of the proposals.

My opinion is that it's worth a try to see if it helps traffic flow. However, the positions of the barrier posts and signs look a bit tight to me from a HGV and Bus point of view.

Also, the current 'rat run' up by Tony Kings garage and Beaufield Vets will have to be closed or it'll be overrun.

In time the right turn from the bridge onto Main Street will need to be looked at, even something like a rush hour 'bus only' right turn. The 'straight on' from Main Street to English Row (Clane Road) should go completely.

I can't see us getting another bridge any time this decade, so hopefully it will ease traffic a bit. Although, I don't see why they can't trial the changes with some temporary signage and traffic cones before commiting money to permanent road markings, barriers and signs.

Riskymove

Buffman wrote: »

In time the right turn from the bridge onto Main Street will need to be looked at, even something like a rush hour 'bus only' right turn. The 'straight on' from Main Street to English Row (Clane Road) should go completely.

agreed

As I see it, the morning rush hour of traffic heading to Dublin will be improved but the return in the evening will have the same issues with the backup of traffic from the right turn into main street.

Riskymove

vektarman wrote: »

I can't find the link but it was planned as a through road when I saw the plans, the obvious solution is to build a second bridge to relieve the traffic at the present bridge but I wouldn't expect that any time soon.

the problem is that the preferred option is not a bridge directly at the end of that road but one nearer the Grove

so you have a series of junctions to navigate in order to get around from Dublin Road to the new bridge rather than a straight through road

2ndcoming

Big Facebook petition doing the rounds to block the changes, I'm pretty sure they don't actually mean anything though.

daheff

seamusk84 wrote: »

I have been living on the Ardclough road my whole live and will strongly oppose this if they try and implement it.

they are trying to implement this. Time to get opposing it.


the fundamentals of the idea is good & needed. Like everything else in this country the execution is appalling. the terms of reference for the consultants only cared about alleviating traffic delays at the bridge. No need for consultants to care what happens after they remove the delays at the bridge.

daheff

to those saying that the through road from simmonstown to hazelhatch road doesnt go through estates, it does. 3 residential estates are passed through(not beside or around) by this road.

If KCC wanted this to be a ring road then they shouldnt have allowed it to be built through 3 residential estates.

this plan is crazy. take traffic miles out of the way and onto minor roads through residential areas. Which genius thought this was a good idea?

a more sensible version of this plan would make traffic stay left going over the bridge, come over shinkeen road, go right back down primrose hill towards the bridge & back onto the ardclough road at the bridge. its a shorter distance, stays on main roads and doesnt affect residents of hazelhatch park, simmondstown manor or calendars mill.

Stealthirl

daheff wrote: »

a more sensible version of this plan would make traffic stay left going over the bridge, come over shinkeen road, go right back down primrose hill towards the bridge & back onto the ardclough road at the bridge. its a shorter distance, stays on main roads and doesnt affect residents of hazelhatch park, simmondstown manor or calendars mill.

Nothing to stop people doing that. Except it would cause traffic to build up comeing down the hatch road.


The road from the hatch rd to dublin rd via tony kings would need to be closed off aswell

Peppa Pig

Frank O'Rourke just wants a trial on the Hazelhatch road

The current section 38 proposal for the junction at the Liffey Bridge in Celbridge is unacceptable. This will affect residents in Simmonstown Manor, Hazelhatch Park and Callenders Mill.

Peppa Pig

This is not going ahead
Link

That's all fine and dandy but it's still a mess at the bridge so we need something else (preferably a new bridge)

Doodah7

The issue was raised in the Dail last night:

http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015112400029?opendocument#BB00200

Movie Maestro

Glad to hear it's not going ahead

Joe Public

Traffic leaving Celbridge over the bridge moved very well today while road works had the Hatch Rd. exit blocked off.
I think it's definitely worth a proper trial just blocking off access to the Hatch Rd. rather than the overcooked all or nothing plan.

Don't make a political football out of it and do what the people of Celbridge need.

Stealthirl

Joe Public wrote: »

Traffic leaving Celbridge over the bridge moved very well today while road works had the Hatch Rd. exit blocked off.
I think it's definitely worth a proper trial just blocking off access to the Hatch Rd. rather than the overcooked all or nothing plan.

Don't make a political football out of it and do what the people of Celbridge need.

That was talked about years ago but again the residents up there rejected it from what i heard back then,it would make it difficult for them :rolleyes:

Joe Public

Stealthirl wrote: »

That was talked about years ago but again the residents up there rejected it from what i heard back then,it would make it difficult for them :rolleyes:

It's the traffic that's leaving Celbridge and heading directly to the Hazelhatch Rd. that causes the biggest delay so allow traffic out from the Hatch Rd. but not in. This one way idea has been talked about many times before and should have only minor disadvantages.

Stealthirl

Celbridge River Crossong Feasibility Report 2015 wrote:

4.2.10.1 Option 7A One-Way System on Primrose Hill, Away from Junction 9

It is assumed that, with this one-way system in place, traffic that currently enters Junction 9 via
Primrose Hill will divert via Shinkeen Road, turning left at Junction 10, and the R403 Dublin Road in
order to cross the existing River Liffey Bridge. With this in mind, the traffic at Junction 9 was redistributed accordingly and the junction was re-analysed. The full analysis results are provided in
Appendix E. The analysis indicated that Junction 9 would operate above practical capacity, with
associated queuing and delays, during the PM peak hour in 2019 and during both peak hours in
2029. As a result, this option was not deemed to be viable.

4.2.10.2 Option 7B One-Way System on Primrose Hill, Towards Junction 9

It is assumed that, with this one-way system in place, traffic that currently exits Junction 9 via
Primrose Hill will divert via the R403 Dublin Road, turning right at Junction 10, and Shinkeen Road in
order to access the R403 Hazelhatch Road, refer to the image overleaf. With this in mind, the traffic
at Junction 9 was re-distributed accordingly and the junction was re-analysed. The full analysis
results are provided in Appendix E. The analysis indicated that Junction 9 would operate below
practical capacity, with no significant queuing and delays, during both peak hours in 2019 and 2029.
However, the other significant impact of this proposed one-way system would be a significant
increase in the volume of traffic turning right from the R403 Dublin Road to Shinkeen Road at
Junction 10. This junction was therefore re-analysed with the additional right-turning traffic. The full
analysis results are provided in Appendix E. This analysis indicated that Junction 10 would operate
below practical capacity during both peak hours in 2019 but above practical capacity during both peak hours in 2029. As a result, this option was not deemed to be a viable long-term solution to the
current congestion issues at the existing River Liffey Bridge; however, it may be a viable short-term
solution while one of the other significant infrastructure options is developed.

My opinion would be to stop traffic going towards Newcastle and in the opposite direction no right turn onto Dublin Rd

paddythe goat

celbridge co kildare,, new local area plan ....out now christmas 2016.....have until end of jan 2017 to lodge submissions..............

proposed 3000 plus new houses/units all over celbridge.....we are already way over capacity on current roads, bridges, schools, footpaths, cycle lanes, bus lanes, water and sewage.........how can we cope with 3000 more houses in short time frame????????????????

look up plan on kcc web site or visit local library asap.....contact local councillors and tds.............and kcc in naas...........now

brian_t

paddythe goat wrote: »

celbridge new area plan out now 2017 to 2023.....object now

Study plan now - object later.

http://kildare.ie/CountyCouncil/Planning/DevelopmentPlans/LocalAreaPlans/DraftCelbridgeLocalAreaPlan2017-2023/

Draft Celbridge Local Area Plan 2017 - 2023

scheister

brian_t wrote: »

Study plan now - object later.

http://kildare.ie/CountyCouncil/Planning/DevelopmentPlans/LocalAreaPlans/DraftCelbridgeLocalAreaPlan2017-2023/

Draft Celbridge Local Area Plan 2017 - 2023

had a quick look online. going to try get my hands on a hard copy easier to read. Some of the locations for the new housing looks strange. Cant see where 30 house at crodaun will go unless they use the land the glebe was meant to be built

Joe Public

If you want to avoid all the waffle, on the Celbridge LAP, look at pages 12 & 13 and from page 61 down.

paddythe goat

new plan from kcc in naas..local area development plan for celbridge 2017 to 2023..has this road back in the mix...along with plans to build 3,000 new houses all around celbridge.
mostly on donaghcumper site as before....back of graveyard massive building at this location, calling it ballyoulster/loughlinstown in plan.
massive building plan for maynooth road, both sides near roundabout, from salesians all the way to oldtown road and on towards st wolstans school, on opposite side of maynooth road, next to crodaun forest park, think the duck people own this site, now out of nama, and getting ready to build.
100 units at least behind grotto close to main st and clane road, serious traffic pinch point here for last 20 years....
new bridges proposed all along ardclough road, first one near grove/simmonstown estate,running out on to hatch road, they hope, taking away car park near mill complex on clane road, second bridge being shown comes out at temple manor estate again running through housing estates.......and in future they would like outer ring road with bridge between chelmsford estate and new chelmsford manor.....crossing over to st wolstans school on clane road....take your pick??? no mention of widening present bridge or building new parallel bridge close to existing bridge, which at least would not run through residential areas...........plan on display now on kcc web site or in local library......submissions must be in by end of jan 2017...........not much time to object.......report is long,, about 70 pages