Gardai to get new high powered motorway vehicles.

hi5

At long last it looks like we will get a dedicated motorway patrol with some decent wheels under them.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/fleet-of-200-new-cars-to-help-garda-take-on-roaming-burglary-gangs-34123724.html


Sources say the Garda fleet will consist of high-powered Audi vehicles, motorbikes, vans and BMWs for undercover gardaí. This will include specially commissioned Audi Q7 four-wheel drives kitted out to the highest spec by the German manufacturer.


These vehicles will be given to the armed Emergency Response Unit, which will fit compartments for assault rifles and handguns. The 4WDs will be used for checkpoints and high-speed motorway pursuits of roaming burglary gangs.


"They have very high horsepower - they are a serious piece of kit," a senior source said.

listermint

hi5 wrote: »

At long last it looks like we will get a dedicated motorway patrol with some decent wheels under them.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/fleet-of-200-new-cars-to-help-garda-take-on-roaming-burglary-gangs-34123724.html


Sources say the Garda fleet will consist of high-powered Audi vehicles, motorbikes, vans and BMWs for undercover gardaí. This will include specially commissioned Audi Q7 four-wheel drives kitted out to the highest spec by the German manufacturer.


These vehicles will be given to the armed Emergency Response Unit, which will fit compartments for assault rifles and handguns. The 4WDs will be used for checkpoints and high-speed motorway pursuits of roaming burglary gangs.


"They have very high horsepower - they are a serious piece of kit," a senior source said.

180bhp, vram vram :P

Comhrá

Election 2016 campaign . . . . . and they're off!!!!

SEPT 23 1989

Why would you announce this and give the thieves the heads up?

JC01

Good idea but I'd be very curious as to how "high-powered" the cars they order will actually be. 2.0 tdis are "powerful" in this country after all.

I also see traffic corps getting a lot of these to chase down speeding tickets rather than the organised gangs that are robbing half the countryside blind at the minute. One makes money and the other doesn't.

LollipopJimmy

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Why would you announce this and give the thieves the heads up?

Because then it carries no political weight, no point doing it without the electoral kudos it brings.

ironclaw

Welcomed news but if the majority are going to the armed response, they'll never been seen. There are plenty of high powered Volvo's and X5's on the rounds, but I believe they (used) spend a good deal of time in Limerick and I've only seen them once in Dublin. That said, as long as they don't spend their time hiding and doing tax / insurance / speed checks, and actually take the time to police 'real' driving, then I'm happy with that.

I'm also hoping against hope they might assign even 5 of them to the M50 full time. Its the most major road in the country and badly needs a visible and active presence. I'll vote for any party that promises this! :pac:

munchkin_utd

listermint wrote: »

180bhp, vram vram :P

the 3L TDI does 0-100kmh in 6seconds and is more like 268bhp

The diesel Hybrid has 373 PS aparantly.

So, a little more than your standard paddy spec (give me a car for that cheap tax bracket) waggon

K.Flyer

All we need now is a High Powered judicial system that locks up criminals and keeps them locked up, instead of the revolving door system which we seem to have.

Special Circumstances

K.Flyer wrote: »

All we need now is a High Powered judicial system that locks up criminals and keeps them locked up, instead of the revolving door system which we seem to have.

Why would they want to discourage their best customers? :mad:

MugMugs

What's the actual point to this?

Why do An Garda Siochana need high powered cars for our Motorway network?

Most of the consequences of speeding isn't felt on Motorways. It's felt on roads not fit for purpose and no amount of power is going to do you any good in a pursuit.

Where's the logic to this ?

Special Circumstances

MugMugs wrote: »

What's the actual point to this?

Why do An Garda Siochana need high powered cars for our Motorway network?

Most of the consequences of speeding isn't felt on Motorways. It's felt on roads not fit for purpose and no amount of power is going to do you any good in a pursuit.

Where's the logic to this ?

The article suggests it is more to do with a clampdown on travelling gangs using the motorway network to reach vulnerable parts of rural Ireland quickly. Rather than joe public speeding.


As mentioned above, they actually know who all these people are * and crime rates would probably drop massively if a certain hardcore of people were actually locked up for an actual 10 years their 20th offence.

But low crime rates equals less free legal aid profits for vested interests...


*natives at least. Anectdotal evidence points to certain other thefts being the work of criminal gangs from the continent hitting a shopping list of outboard motors or BMWs with dire security flaws.

afatbollix

MugMugs wrote: »

What's the actual point to this?

Why do An Garda Siochana need high powered cars for our Motorway network?

Most of the consequences of speeding isn't felt on Motorways. It's felt on roads not fit for purpose and no amount of power is going to do you any good in a pursuit.

Where's the logic to this ?

These won't be for your local gardai it will be for the highly trained pursuit drivers & armed response gaurds who need to be somewhere quick and a 1.6 Hyundai is not the car to get them there.

Where I went to School had a traveling gang come to town one night they robbed a couple of pharmacies and a couple of pubs and then the credit union (Which only opens once a week) which had an alarm which alerted the local station. They had a Audi and our local Gaurd had a fiesta who gave chase. he gave it all he got being a local but just coulnt keep up with a normal spec Audi. All he could do was call ahead and hope they blocked them. These guys know all they need is a faster car than a Mondeo and they can do what they like.

MugMugs

Special Circumstances wrote: »

The article suggests it is more to do with a clampdown on travelling gangs using the motorway network to reach vulnerable parts of rural Ireland quickly. Rather than joe public speeding.

afatbollix wrote: »

These won't be for your local gardai it will be for the highly trained pursuit drivers & armed response gaurds who need to be somewhere quick and a 1.6 Hyundai is not the car to get them there.

SO basically, it's a pile of bollox and is an election ploy.

We have Gardai driving around in **** heaps of Hyundai's not fit for purpose. We have Gardai driving around with no actual training just using "Chiefs Permission" and doing nothing but putting their lives at risk as well as everybody else's if they're put in a situation they don't know how to deal with at speed.

We have a fantastic organisation called CAB surely still seizing assets which instead of being liquidised could be re deployed into the AGS fleet

It sounds to me that the state are looking at investing in some very expensive dust gatherers.

Those lads in the Volvo's, they are afraid to engage when the crap hits the fan because they know their motors won't be replaced if they do and end up damaging them.

Special Circumstances

A 1.6 hyundai is perfectly fine for many things. Picking up that triple digit conviction shoplifter etc.

There is no "one size fits all" garda. There is no "one size fits all" garda vehicle.
Would I like to see them all in police special crash-barred Dodges? Probably not. Could we do with a few of them in certain areas? Be no harm I suppose.

There is definitely a case for specific units with more advanced equipment and training. Or maybe a separate force altogether like you see in some other countries.

Toyotafanboi

I know it's been thrashed out many many time but the i40's are fine for purpose imo.

MugMugs

I remember reading that the Hyundai's were failing quite easily on the Gardai.

It's not just a case of them being used to pick up shoplifters etc. These are average par Family saloons being used for 21 - 22 hour days in short journeys.

Why not employ a car maker to build a car specific to the purpose that it's going to be used instead of picking up a good deal off a cheap supplier.

Buy cheap, buy twice. Those Hyundai's aren't going to last.

Special Circumstances

MugMugs wrote: »

I remember reading that the Hyundai's were failing quite easily on the Gardai.

It's not just a case of them being used to pick up shoplifters etc. These are average par Family saloons being used for 21 - 22 hour days in short journeys.

Why not employ a car maker to build a car specific to the purpose that it's going to be used instead of picking up a good deal off a cheap supplier.

Buy cheap, buy twice. Those Hyundai's aren't going to last.

What's going wrong on them? Injectors? Oil pump shaft drive made of cheese? Crank/timing chain fatal design flaws and complete denial of the situation? Just general poor timing chain materials? From a few examples I've hear, the Ford electrics weren't playing nice with garda conversion at one stage. Poltergeist stuff.

I'm not saying the hyundais are awesome, but in a modern world where all the cars seem to made to barely squeeze out the end of warranty before obvious flaws rear their heads, they are probably just fine.

Toyotafanboi

Hasn't every Garda car ever been a badged up family saloon, the i40 is no exception there. Focus, Mondeo, Avensis, Corolla, Primera, Astra, Vectra etc, the same as most other European countries.

The Hyundais weren't cheap, they may have offered the most competitive tender package but on the retail market they are on a par with their rivals price wise, so "buy cheap buy twice" doesn't really apply. They are probably no softer than any other car given the same task.

Crazy idea to even suggest comissioning completely bespoke vehicles for the Irish police force. We can't even afford to keep stations open never mind build one off cars.

listermint

munchkin_utd wrote: »

the 3L TDI does 0-100kmh in 6seconds and is more like 268bhp

The diesel Hybrid has 373 PS aparantly.

So, a little more than your standard paddy spec (give me a car for that cheap tax bracket) waggon

I know full well what it does and the spec, Where in the report quoted does it back up your assessment of these being anything remotely similar ?

Stephenc66

I came across this some time ago on a tender site we use for work

I wonder if this is what might be going for V8 Diesel in excess of 350BHP

"Notice Summary
Title: UK-Port Talbot: Tender for the Supply of Audi Q7 4.2 TDI S Line Plus Quattro Vehicles
Document Ref: GB003M18629
Published By: Abertawe Bro Morgannwg Local Health Board
Document Source: Lower Value Tender
Date Published: 21 November 2014
Deadline Date: 10 December 2014
Document Type: Contract Notice - Open Procedure"

Very often it comes down to the weight a vehicle will be carrying and the effect that this will have on performance.

ThisRegard

MugMugs wrote: »

SO basically, it's a pile of bollox and is an election ploy.

You're wrong there. I can't see how you fail to understand that this is a good thing unless you're just one of those people that like to beat the government for any sort of reason.

MugMugs wrote: »

We have a fantastic organisation called CAB surely still seizing assets which instead of being liquidised could be re deployed into the AGS fleet

And you think this isn't being done already?

MugMugs

ThisRegard wrote: »

You're wrong there. I can't see how you fail to understand that this is a good thing unless you're just one of those people that like to beat the government for any sort of reason.

No, I am the kind of prick that lost a good friend because he was driving an old ill maintained Garda car and lost control when responding to a call.

I have little interest in berating the state. I have ever interest in not seeing network of friends and family torn apart by a repeat of what I've endured because somebody was too tight to have a car inspected.

ThisRegard wrote: »

And you think this isn't being done already?

With the exception of the two armour plated BMW's, yeah, I genuinely don't believe it is being done.

I know how this country works and I'd say the $$ signs fill top brasses eyes and the motors are auctioned off quicker than they're taken in (once the state have full control of assets)

RandomAccess

All I can say is lock up your RS4's etc.

Special Circumstances

RandomAccess wrote: »

All I can say is lock up your RS4's etc.

Yup, when a passat or an avensis isn't going to cut it anymore then the boys will have to up their standards of "shopping" list.

Donnelly117

They should get them a fleet of Impreza STi's and Evo X's like that UK TV show, the ones with the big interceptor badges on them Id pull over if id one of those on my tail, and there's not many cars in Ireland that would shake them in a hurry!!
Having said that any cars that could shake them will be promptly stolen!

Mycroft H

MugMugs wrote: »

SO basically, it's a pile of bollox and is an election ploy.

We have Gardai driving around in **** heaps of Hyundai's not fit for purpose. We have Gardai driving around with no actual training just using "Chiefs Permission" and doing nothing but putting their lives at risk as well as everybody else's if they're put in a situation they don't know how to deal with at speed.

We have a fantastic organisation called CAB surely still seizing assets which instead of being liquidised could be re deployed into the AGS fleet

It sounds to me that the state are looking at investing in some very expensive dust gatherers.

Those lads in the Volvo's, they are afraid to engage when the crap hits the fan because they know their motors won't be replaced if they do and end up damaging them.

Cheif's permission is gone since 2014.

MugMugs

Mycroft H wrote: »

Cheif's permission is gone since 2014.

I know of several instances where it's still happening.

Jawgap

Not much point in getting in higher performance vehicles if the driving isn't up to snuff.

I don't think there's too many Guards undergo pursuit driving training and I've never seen / heard of the Guards practicing or pulling off proper tactical pursuit and containment maneuvers.

listermint

Not much point in doing anything if there are no prison places. Government announce multi billion euro plan to buy back the electorate and nothing in it to tackle the prison situation. All the 600 guards in the world to catch people and they waltz out the door as soon as they are in front of a judge.


Revolving door justice Ireland.

ThisRegard

Jawgap wrote: »

I don't think there's too many Guards undergo pursuit driving training and I've never seen / heard of the Guards practicing or pulling off proper tactical pursuit and containment maneuvers.

It is being done, and I'd imagine it will/should only increase when they get the new fleet.

Like most I know a few gardai, one of which is in one of those tactical units, and he's pretty impressed with the specially trained gardai when he's teamed with them and gets involved in a pursuit or call out. He's done the regular training himself.

bmstuff

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

I know it's been thrashed out many many time but the i40's are fine for purpose imo.

For tesco shopping yeah not to keep up with a stolen bmw e60 m5 like it happened a number of times...

Toyotafanboi

bmstuff wrote: »

For tesco shopping yeah not to keep up with a stolen bmw e60 m5 like it happened a number of times...

How many times?

Special Circumstances

bmstuff wrote: »

For tesco shopping yeah not to keep up with a stolen bmw e60 m5 like it happened a number of times...

Only a good guy with a bmw e60 m5 can stop a bad guy with a bmw e60 m5!


I'm going out on a limb here.... but maybe... just maybe, the fact that they are getting high powered cars for high powered jobs (clue is in the title and article linked to in first post) and low powered cars for low powered jobs makes sense.

Although maybe not to out and out fanboys and other people who just want to pretend that all other police forces are equipped with solely with beasts of cars and that it is inconceivable for day-to-day jobs to be carried out in an i40 or equivalent.

Mister Jingles

I heard or actually read a few months back somewhere that the Hyundai's they bought this year would be the last and that Ford will have the tender next time around.

RandomAccess

Jees makes it sound like there's a remake of Ronin out on the motorways.

Special Circumstances

Mister Jingles wrote: »

I heard or actually read a few months back somewhere that the Hyundai's they bought this year would be the last and that Ford will have the tender next time around.

Mustangs and interceptors would have to be the only yokes on the shopping list to satisfy some posters here.
My moneys on Focus estates and mondeos though.

bmstuff

Yeah or a big turbo diesel cause the m5 will run out of gas twice before you reach half your tank

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Only a good guy with a bmw e60 m5 can stop a bad guy with a bmw e60 m5!


I'm going out on a limb here.... but maybe... just maybe, the fact that they are getting high powered cars for high powered jobs (clue is in the title and article linked to in first post) and low powered cars for low powered jobs makes sense.

Although maybe not to out and out fanboys and other people who just want to pretend that all other police forces are equipped with solely with beasts of cars and that it is inconceivable for day-to-day jobs to be carried out in an i40 or equivalent.

Toyotafanboi

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Only a good guy with a bmw e60 m5 can stop a bad guy with a bmw e60 m5!

We certainly shouldn't adjust a fleet of hundreds of vehicles to offer a better chase to <1% of stolen/ criminal vehicles. It's not all about power anyway.

If the Gardai had an M5 to catch the stolen M5, what will they do then?

1- nudge the stolen M5 off the road to stop it and in the process write it off too.

or

2 - pursue it until the driver writes it off while giving chase.

Once your car is stolen, it's ****ed, regardless of whether the Gardai can catch up or not!

bmstuff

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

How many times?

Enough times so the government finally decided to buy a fleet of high power cars to tackle the problem?

Wossack

was that a cited reason on the proposal?

Henry Ford III

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Mustangs and interceptors would have to be the only yokes on the shopping list to satisfy some posters here.
My moneys on Focus estates and mondeos though.

V8 Mustangs only.

Special Circumstances

Henry Ford III wrote: »

V8 Mustangs only.

True dat. Anything less would be hardly fit for chasing BMW Granny Tourers round the Tesco carpark.

Gazzmonkey

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

We certainly shouldn't adjust a fleet of hundreds of vehicles to offer a better chase to <1% of stolen/ criminal vehicles. It's not all about power anyway.

If the Gardai had an M5 to catch the stolen M5, what will they do then?

1- nudge the stolen M5 off the road to stop it and in the process write it off too.

or

2 - pursue it until the driver writes it off while giving chase.

Once your car is stolen, it's ****ed, regardless of whether the Gardai can catch up or not!

I'd say they only care about catching the occupants that may have committed a serious armed robbery on a family home only moments before hand.

Atlantic Dawn

250 high speed cars with a budget of €5.3 million works out at €21,200 per car, I don't know where they are buying their high speed cars for that money but it's certainly not the same place I am buying them from. I don't know any car with a sub 7 second 0-60 that can be bought for that money.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/new-garda-fleet-to-tackle-scourge-of-criminal-gangs-1.2398613

Special Circumstances

Minus VAT and VRT? I presume!

What does that make 21k equivalent to in Joe PAYE euros?

Rough calcs, 21k * 1.23 *1.25 = 32k ish. Still not very promising is it.
(Pre-vat price + VAT + estimated average VRT of 25%, is that the right way to calculate?)

Toyotafanboi

bmstuff wrote: »

Enough times so the government finally decided to buy a fleet of high power cars to tackle the problem?

But what will the high power car resolve?

Atlantic Dawn

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Minus VAT and VRT? I presume!

What does that make 21k equivalent to in Joe PAYE euros?

Yes your probably up to €35k without the VAT/VRT.

What I can't understand is if they get high speed cars what will they actually do when they catch up with a criminal on the motorway? Do the Gardaí even have stingers to deploy ahead of cars, I've never heard of them ever been used. Without stingers the Gardaí will need a deathwish to stop a car on a motorway at that speed.

Mister Jingles

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

250 high speed cars with a budget of €5.3 million works out at €21,200 per car, I don't know where they are buying their high speed cars for that money but it's certainly not the same place I am buying them from. I don't know any car with a sub 7 second 0-60 that can be bought for that money.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/new-garda-fleet-to-tackle-scourge-of-criminal-gangs-1.2398613

Could be just a very good deal from the manufacturers. A few years ago BMW offered to do a very good deal/discount on police spec cars back when the Avensis was chosen.

RustyNut

If nothing else it should seriously reduce travel time to the airport.

Special Circumstances

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Yes your probably up to €35k without the VAT/VRT.

What I can't understand is if they get high speed cars what will they actually do when they catch up with a criminal on the motorway? Do the Gardaí even have stingers to deploy ahead of cars, I've never heard of them ever been used. Without stingers the Gardaí will need a deathwish to stop a car on a motorway at that speed.

At the moment I just don't think they can tail them long enough to narrow down where they need to put a road block. I getcha though - cars will be lost to dirtbags trying to ram their way through roadblocks. Not sure what the alternative is - stingers half a mile back from the roadblock? They will probably need a written note from the president to use a stinger on yobs in a 150mph stolen car, in case the poor diddums would be hurt.

A) pursue them until a road block can be organised by another rapid response unit. Something something. Arrest them and see them released shortly afterwards on bail then given a token sentence incorporating several more crimes concurrently. :mad:

pursue them on a quiet (entrances and exits closed off by other units) motorway until their robbed and ragged car develops a fault leading to a fiery explosion and melty scumbags?

Better than not having the cars at all I suppose!