Luxobarges are more trouble that they are worth

737max

As the owner of a modest luxobarge which is off the road but in perfect working order I'm beginning to struggle to see the benefit of them.
honestly, i'd prefer to drive my modern focus sized car.
modern cars of this size are now near as refined as luxobarges of a decade ago.

with 25mpg on average for a luxobarge, loaded insurance, high tax on higher CC engine, more frequent NCTs with testers giving themselves a hernia to find fault with the car and just the general upkeep on a car which is in good general order but getting on in years it isn't the most pleasant way of motoring.

My new car has extras I don't have on my luxobarge like parking sensors all around, cameras, auto everything, electric parking brakes, hilll hold, traction control, tpms, folding mirrors, glass roof, big screen with sat nav, bluetooth, media player, dsg transmission, heated seats, multi-zone climate control, quality interior materials, etc.....

the new car is easy on fuel, cheap to tax and insure, doesn't have to go near a workshop or test centre and warranted for years to come.

I can still appreciate where my luxobarge is better engineered but the new car is great in its own ways too and totally worry free.

My biggest issue is that luxobarges of 10 years ago don't have the technology of today's cars. I don't want to go back to a car with manual handbrake or without GPS which tells me where traffic jams are or the reversing camera or the parking sensors. I fear these features will in future be taken for granted and make luxobarges that are only 10 years old sale-proof.

If I didn't have the luxobarge in the morning and needed transport I'd probably be buying a well specified new car on Finance and it would cost me no more to run or probably less than the luxobarge.

That said, I'm not selling my luxobarge and I derive huge enjoyment from just starting it and admiring it from a distance or while listening to the engine revving when I press the accelerator.

Sh1tbag OToole

The fog lights on my new car aren't bright enough rabble rabble

daRobot

Doesn't sound like your luxobarge is a luxobarge at all.

What car is is anyway?

737max

I avoid mentioning the model of either new or old car as the tread will just descend in to a thread to insult my cars.
Actually my luxobarge has multi-zone climate control and reversing sensors and has an engine with plenty of cylinders and extras you'd still find rare on mainstream modern cars but not the extras that people value now.

Toyotafanboi

I think the main people into luxobarges are generally also members of the "there's no replacement for displacement" gang , that and/ or the "patina appreciation society".

I'd have to agree for the most part though. Running a luxobarge in a lot of cases can be a costly, stressful, thankless exercise. Given the bills involved I don't see the appeal myself vs a more modern vehicle, when looking at how technology has progressed, as pointed out. But I guess some people enjoy smoking too, so common sense doesn't always prevail in life; enjoyment, yada yada.

I think luxobarging is probably more enjoyable and easier to appreciate in other countries where tax and fuel are cheaper and parts are less scarce.

biko

Don't paint all luxobarges with one stroke because you're not happy with your particular one.

daRobot

737max wrote: »

I avoid mentioning the model of either new or old car as the tread will just descend in to a thread to insult my cars.

Well your thread has little purpose then. It's just a generic rant.

737max

biko wrote: »

Don't paint all luxobarges with one stroke because you're not happy with your particular one.

I'm happy with my luxobarge and it took me a long time to find it having had a version of it previously that wasn't quite what I wanted.

ba_barabus

So basically you have an old car that's expensive to run and you've bought a new car which has been surprisingly cheap to run and well specced.

It's called progress and it happens with every generation of cars.

bear1

It's not a Lexus by any chance is it?

Mycroft H

Or an Alfa 166


:pac::pac::pac::D



I joke, I joke.....

*Kol*

Given the choice I would rather put the equivalent cost of running a luxobarge into running a really nice newer car i.e. Put the money that would be used on fuel, motor tax, maintenance etc into paying a loan off. I guess it's personal preference at the end of the day.

ba_barabus

I bet it's a Pug 607

Voodoomelon

Funny you chose a Focus as a comparison, my father has one and compared to my 7, it is a toy car in my view. I can't believe people actually spend over €20,000 on something with zero refinement, plastic everywhere, horribly uncomfortable seats, ridiculous levels or road noise and hardly any spec. I feel so vulnerable sitting in it.

Plenty of 10 year luxobarges have the specification you mention above. You're right to question the hassle though, there is inherent unreliability with any 10 year old car and the costs are very high. But not a chance are standard modern cars any more comfortable, better specced or as refined as a large engined flagship.

_Kaiser_

737max wrote: »

As the owner of a modest luxobarge which is off the road but in perfect working order I'm beginning to struggle to see the benefit of them.
honestly, i'd prefer to drive my modern focus sized car.
modern cars of this size are now near as refined as luxobarges of a decade ago.

with 25mpg on average for a luxobarge, loaded insurance, high tax on higher CC engine, more frequent NCTs with testers giving themselves a hernia to find fault with the car and just the general upkeep on a car which is in good general order but getting on in years it isn't the most pleasant way of motoring.

I'd agree with some of this... as the owner of a 2005 3.0 TDI A6 the fuel bill is significant (but then I do anywhere from 1000-1500km a week), the tax bill is extortionate (€1600 a year or €420 every quarter), and now that she's over 10 years, an annual NCT has to be factored in alright.

My new car has extras I don't have on my luxobarge like parking sensors all around, cameras, auto everything, electric parking brakes, hilll hold, traction control, tpms, folding mirrors, glass roof, big screen with sat nav, bluetooth, media player, dsg transmission, heated seats, multi-zone climate control, quality interior materials, etc.....

Actually my car has most of that and more....
Auto xenon lights with cornering and coming/leaving home functions, auto wipers, front/rear parking sensors with display, folding/electic mirrors with auto-dimming and they even dip when you stick it in reverse to make parking easier, full color screen, multi-zone climate, Bose Audio with USB connections, electronic handbrake, DSG-style gearbox with paddle shifts, leather electric memory seats, electric rear sunblinds etc

Trying to find a modern equivalent with all that is nigh on impossible IMO. I'll probably need to trade up to an A8 next because it has a higher base spec.

My biggest issue is that luxobarges of 10 years ago don't have the technology of today's cars. I don't want to go back to a car with manual handbrake or without GPS which tells me where traffic jams are or the reversing camera or the parking sensors. I fear these features will in future be taken for granted and make luxobarges that are only 10 years old sale-proof.

As above, my issue is finding a newer car in the same bracket with all that

That said, I'm not selling my luxobarge and I derive huge enjoyment from just starting it and admiring it from a distance or while listening to the engine revving when I press the accelerator.

Ah yes... I still get a smile from mine every day almost 3 years later. Still looks fresh, the interior has worn very well, and with nearly 300,000km on her she still runs perfectly, and the extra power is very handy when you need it, not to mention far more comfortable on a motorway trip.

If anything, it has me spoiled and going to anything less would be VERY hard - hence why I'm considering A8's and even CLS Mercs as possible replacements (at some stage next year ideally).

The Sidewards Man

What defines a luxobarge? value, type of car etc.

daRobot

The Sidewards Man wrote: »

What defines a luxobarge? value, type of car etc.

For me anyway, it's the brands flagship saloon. 7 series, S class, A8, Lexus LS etc.

*Kol*

daRobot wrote: »

For me anyway, it's the brands flagship saloon. 7 series, S class, A8, Lexus LS etc.

That would be my idea of a luxobarge too.

In fairness though, apart from the big engine what equipment would a luxobarge have in addition to a really well specced non luxobarge?

Edit. I am not directing that at you daRobot. Just tagging onto your post.

bazz26

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Actually my car has most of that and more....
Auto xenon lights with cornering and coming/leaving home functions, auto wipers, front/rear parking sensors with display, folding/electic mirrors with auto-dimming and they even dip when you stick it in reverse to make parking easier, full color screen, multi-zone climate, Bose Audio with USB connections, electronic handbrake, DSG-style gearbox with paddle shifts, leather electric memory seats, electric rear sunblinds etc

Trying to find a modern equivalent with all that is nigh on impossible IMO. I'll probably need to trade up to an A8 next because it has a higher base spec.



As above, my issue is finding a newer car in the same bracket with all that



Ah yes... I still get a smile from mine every day almost 3 years later. Still looks fresh, the interior has worn very well, and with nearly 300,000km on her she still runs perfectly, and the extra power is very handy when you need it, not to mention far more comfortable on a motorway trip.

If anything, it has me spoiled and going to anything less would be VERY hard - hence why I'm considering A8's and even CLS Mercs as possible replacements (at some stage next year ideally).

You would be surprised the number of cars that have most of those features these days. My nearly 5 year old modest F10 has most of that in it and VW were offering them as part of a free upgrade on Golfs and Passats earlier in the year. Your biggest problem will be finding a post 2007 big engine. They are all down scaling on engine capacity nowadays in favor of extra turbos and whatever.

Marty McFly

I've never owned a luxobarge but have always said I see myself in one someday.

I'm slowly moving towards one first wanted something fast so git the 330i then came two kids now in a 530D I did consider a 7 series briefly running costs did worry me a but in saying that can't imagine it being to more expensive than my last or current car.

I'll always stop and admire a luxobarge though the refinement and comfort are very appealing I like to think of myself in one when I'm grey.

I'd much rather drive a ten year old luxobarge than any brand new middle range Opel or ford.

Trojan

I thought the whole point of a luxobarge is that you're getting a better specced car than you could with a larger budget for a more modern car. The comfort, build quality and large engine are important, but so are the PDC, CC, GPS, etc. Otherwise surely you're talking about bangernomics, not luxobarge, which is a different argument.

Truckermal

Silly argument OP my GS cost 3.5K and has way more extras than our new Audi which cost 40K and is well specced for the particular model. I love driving my car especially the power, comfort, refinement and I could go on..

Eric Cartman

the OP's post is laughable really.

My 1999 e38 7 Series has :

3 zone climate control
front and rear parking sensors
servotronic steering
traction control
Xenon headlights
widescreen display
satellite navigation with TMC and 2015 maps
reversing camera
AV input
heated front and rear seats
power adjustable seats front and rear (including headrest adjustment and rear lumbar support)
interior comfort lighting (footwells, led illumination of the console, door handles in and out
enough nappa leather that it would have killed half a herd to make
soft close boot
keyless entry
volumetric alarm
immobiliser (can even set a code that has to be entered before it starts)
separate woofers and tweeters in each door (soon to be the more advanced DSP system that has even more)
iPod kit including control
bluetooth.

all OEM with the exception of the iPod kit and the physical reversing camera itself (OEM camera is serious cash, ebay one was 50 notes)

you'd be hard pushed to find even 90% of that list on a brand new car for under 45k today.
I bought mine for just under a grand , and with extras and bits I'm just under 5k piled into it , flew through 2 nct's , the tax is a bit annoying but its the price I pay for some that lovely 3.5 V8 pushing me about.

bmstuff

That's how you do it :cool:

4.4L V8 from the previous century with 2015 navigation system from BMW F15, fully functional. High definition screen, reverse camera, digital TV, digital radio, navigation etc
The hell with their electronic parking brake that breaks all the time :eek: And their timing chains :rolleyes:

jimgoose

I wish I had that Focus. Then I could sell it and buy four beautiful Jaaaaags.

737max

Calling my post laughable or silly isn't really going to convince anyone least of all me.

Since last posting I did a 60km round trip in comfort at motorway speeds listening to my Bose sound system(harmon kardon in the other one) with the gearbox shifting itself while key remains in pocket and all done at 4.7l/100KM while avoiding traffic jams using the built-in sat-nav. With panoramic sunroof above me and heated sport seats below me I was happy as a pig in sh1te.
This isn't bragging as the class of car which I drive is attainable for most people on moderate incomes these days.
There is a reason why the demand for vehicles above a certain size is shrinking as time goes by.

jimgoose

737max wrote: »

Calling my post laughable or silly isn't really going to convince anyone least of all me.

Since last posting I did a 60km round trip in comfort at motorway speeds listening to my Bose sound system(harmon kardon in the other one) with the gearbox shifting itself while key remains in pocket and all done at 4.7l/100KM while avoiding traffic jams using the built-in sat-nav. With panoramic sunroof above me and heated sport seats below me I was happy as a pig in sh1te.
This isn't bragging as the class of car which I drive is attainable for most people on moderate incomes these days.
There is a reason why the demand for vehicles above a certain size is shrinking as time goes by.

Couldn't care less. It's not a Jaaaaag.

Eric Cartman

737max wrote: »

Calling my post laughable or silly isn't really going to convince anyone least of all me.

Since last posting I did a 60km round trip in comfort at motorway speeds listening to my Bose sound system(harmon kardon in the other one) with the gearbox shifting itself while key remains in pocket and all done at 4.7l/100KM while avoiding traffic jams using the built-in sat-nav. With panoramic sunroof above me and heated sport seats below me I was happy as a pig in sh1te.
This isn't bragging as the class of car which I drive is attainable for most people on moderate incomes these days.
There is a reason why the demand for vehicles above a certain size is shrinking as time goes by.

and with the exception of the sunroof being panoramic I and others can happily do all of that at 11l/100km but with the lovely note of 8 cylinders banging away and a car that still turns heads despite stopping production almost 15 years ago. and all of that is just at cruising speed. I have the sheer childish joy of hitting the loud peddle and grinning from ear to ear, an option which almost no 4 banger will ever deliver.

Hachiko

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I'd agree with some of this... as the owner of a 2005 3.0 TDI A6 the fuel bill is significant (but then I do anywhere from 1000-1500km a week), the tax bill is extortionate (€1600 a year or €420 every quarter), and now that she's over 10 years, an annual NCT has to be factored in alright.


Actually my car has most of that and more....
Auto xenon lights with cornering and coming/leaving home functions, auto wipers, front/rear parking sensors with display, folding/electic mirrors with auto-dimming and they even dip when you stick it in reverse to make parking easier, full color screen, multi-zone climate, Bose Audio with USB connections, electronic handbrake, DSG-style gearbox with paddle shifts, leather electric memory seats, electric rear sunblinds etc

Trying to find a modern equivalent with all that is nigh on impossible IMO. I'll probably need to trade up to an A8 next because it has a higher base spec.

No disrespect but my 7 year old Lexus has most of that and its not even a barge.

A Luxobarge is a different kettle of fish than most modern main stream cars that the OP pointed out, even ones fully kitted out. The ride and build quality will be far better. He never said what barge he actually drives which could have a bearing on things.

Marty McFly

Eric Cartman wrote: »

and with the exception of the sunroof being panoramic I and others can happily do all of that at 11l/100km but with the lovely note of 8 cylinders banging away and a car that still turns heads despite stopping production almost 15 years ago. and all of that is just at cruising speed. I have the sheer childish joy of hitting the loud peddle and grinning from ear to ear, an option which almost no 4 banger will ever deliver.

As much as I love a good petrol engine and no diesel ever comes close in terms of the smile a good petrol can bring to your face.

For me a luxobarge doesn't have to be petrol I'd still be quite happy in a diesel a8 or 7 series

pablo128

ba_barabus wrote: »

I bet it's a Pug 607

Nah, I'm guessing a Ford Scorpio.:pac:

Bigus

What annoys me about modern luxobarges especially BMW 7s and A8s i.e. post 2010 , is that they try to be pseudo sports cars which to me is compromise too far ,

if I want a sports car I'll have a hard riding low profile hard edged one and

conversely my barge needs to be a barge, and not overly sporty hard riding 22 inched wheel 45 zr profile hard riding tyres which really is an oxymoron.

Also too much overly fussy high tech is a turn off, especially with the laughable tiny screens traditional car manufacturers tack on or pop up.

Tesla really have caught the mainstream luxury manufacturers with their collective pants down on all fronts,namely , ride , handling, safety , innovation, simplicity ,efficiency display size, maintenence ( pushed software and other upgrades) bragging rights in the golf club etc etc,

in effect in 2015 most of the reasons to buy something special like an s-class over an escort in the 1980's have been cancelled out by the high quality of today's mainstream rep mobiles , but perhaps with a Tesla are or the right track, just look at the Californian luxury car sales figures, where I believe the model s outsells combined sales of A8, seven, S class, XJ, quatroporte , panamerica .

Eric Cartman

Bigus wrote: »

What annoys me about modern luxobarges especially BMW 7s and A8s i.e. post 2010 , is that they try to be pseudo sports cars which to me is compromise too far ,

if I want a sports car I'll have a hard riding low profile hard edged one and

conversely my barge needs to be a barge, and not overly sporty hard riding 22 inched wheel 45 zr profile hard riding tyres which really is an oxymoron.

Also too much overly fussy high tech is a turn off, especially with the laughable tiny screens traditional car manufacturers tack on or pop up.

Tesla really have caught the mainstream luxury manufacturers with their collective pants down on all fronts,namely , ride , handling, safety , innovation, simplicity ,efficiency display size, maintenence ( pushed software and other upgrades) bragging rights in the golf club etc etc,

in effect in 2015 most of the reasons to buy something special like an s-class over an escort in the 1980's have been cancelled out by the high quality of today's mainstream rep mobiles , but perhaps with a Tesla are or the right track, just look at the Californian luxury car sales figures, where I believe the model s outsells combined sales of A8, seven, S class, XJ, quatroporte , panamerica .

I personally think the large tablet thing on the teslas interior is just wrong, all screens in a car should be landscape oriented. I would agree though that I hate fiddly pop up jobs or this new craic of "stick a thing that looks like a tablet to the dash"

I don't think tesla will be dethroning the 7 series / s-class market any time soon, and I would prefer if they didn't to be honest.

I don't think the advantage has been wiped out either. the brand new 7 series is a serious innovation and has some tech that won't appear in a rep mobile for another decade, and thats the way it always is really. Flagship cars are still a decade ahead of mainstream ones in terms of new innovations. The quality of materials also. no matter how far you want to go, you cannot make a mondeo with the attention to detail and materials of a flagship CEO wagon, unless you like selling cars at a loss.

Oafley Jones

Bigus wrote: »

What annoys me about modern luxobarges especially BMW 7s and A8s i.e. post 2010 , is that they try to be pseudo sports cars which to me is compromise too far ,

if I want a sports car I'll have a hard riding low profile hard edged one and

conversely my barge needs to be a barge, and not overly sporty hard riding 22 inched wheel 45 zr profile hard riding tyres which really is an oxymoron.

Also too much overly fussy high tech is a turn off, especially with the laughable tiny screens traditional car manufacturers tack on or pop up.

Tesla really have caught the mainstream luxury manufacturers with their collective pants down on all fronts,namely , ride , handling, safety , innovation, simplicity ,efficiency display size, maintenence ( pushed software and other upgrades) bragging rights in the golf club etc etc,

in effect in 2015 most of the reasons to buy something special like an s-class over an escort in the 1980's have been cancelled out by the high quality of today's mainstream rep mobiles , but perhaps with a Tesla are or the right track, just look at the Californian luxury car sales figures, where I believe the model s outsells combined sales of A8, seven, S class, XJ, quatroporte , panamerica .

As much as I like them, the Tesla's interior quality is a bit "American". And the touchscreen is horribly integrated into the dash.

Hachiko

How is the Tesla even brought up in this thread. It never was and never will be a barge. Its a very fast saloon with people who have money to blow and has a big chunky lithium ion 18650 array underneath that gives it masses of torque that you can view with the hideous display. The interior build quality of a Tesla falls well short that of what is expected of a barge also.

Its not a car I ever want to own, give me a nice V6/V8 hybrid any time, without a monstrous display looking at me.

ION08

OP, genuine question; what exactly is so amazing about an electronic parking brake that wouldn't make you want to go back to a car with a manual handbrake??

To me, a manual handbrake is far far superior.

I see absolutely zero benefit to electronic handbrakes and I find them to be nothing but a fiddly, unintuitive gimmick waiting to go wrong.

... unless I'm missing something???

Eric Cartman

ION08 wrote: »

OP, genuine question; what exactly is so amazing about an electronic parking brake that wouldn't make you want to go back to a car with a manual handbrake??

To me, a manual handbrake is far far superior.

I see absolutely zero benefit to electronic handbrakes and I find them to be nothing but a fiddly, unintuitive gimmick waiting to go wrong.

... unless I'm missing something???

theres something incredibly trustworthy about a brake that works to stop your car moving even when the battery is out. they definitely have their place.

Bigus

Hachiko wrote: »

How is the Tesla even brought up in this thread. It was and never will be a barge. Its a very fast saloon with people who have money to blow and has a big chunky lithium ion 18650 array underneath that gives it masses of torque that you can view with the hideous display.

Its not a car I ever want to own, give me a nice V6/V8 hybrid any time, without a monstrous display looking at me.

It's brought up because it's outselling and outsmarting every luxury car in California and Norway , and after all it's the people who buy luxury cars NEW that dictate the market, smart money follows smart tech, V8s and V12s are old hat in 2015 whether we like it or not.

737max

ION08 wrote: »

OP, genuine question; what exactly is so amazing about an electronic parking brake that wouldn't make you want to go back to a car with a manual handbrake??

To me, a manual handbrake is far far superior.

I see absolutely zero benefit to electronic handbrakes and I find them to be nothing but a fiddly, unintuitive gimmick waiting to go wrong.

... unless I'm missing something???

I have to parallel park every day in a very, very tight spot on a hill with a 20% gradient.
between the parking sensors, camera and handbrake I can get in and out of a spot which is only a metre longer than my car. You don't have to release an electronic parking brake.

Hachiko

Bigus wrote: »

It's brought up because it's outselling and outsmarting every luxury car in California and Norway , and after all it's the people who buy luxury cars NEW that dictate the market, smart money follows smart tech, V8s and V12s are old hat in 2015 whether we like it or not.

Some people have more money than sense. The Tesla never ever will be a barge.

decade + old barges from Mercedes or Lexus have better interior build and finishing than a Tesla.

Bigus

ION08 wrote: »

OP, genuine question; what exactly is so amazing about an electronic parking brake that wouldn't make you want to go back to a car with a manual handbrake??

To me, a manual handbrake is far far superior.

I see absolutely zero benefit to electronic handbrakes and I find them to be nothing but a fiddly, unintuitive gimmick waiting to go wrong.

... unless I'm missing something???

Agreed, old tech can be superior to new gimmicks.

and this is the case with the new BMW seven , too much tech for a billionaire ex tradesman property developer to get their head around, sometimes a car needs to from from a to b without the driver having to think about multiple menu choices.

Bigus

Hachiko wrote: »

Some people have more money than sense. The Tesla never ever will be a barge.

decade + old barges from Mercedes or Lexus have better interior build and finishing than a Tesla.

It won't be hard for Tesla to match these interiors soon , but the reverse can't be said of established brands when it comes to selling clean sheet design, non legacy issue modern efficient Mercs and BM's that have to be made with new production techniques.

Sh1tbag OToole

Bigus wrote: »

Hachiko wrote: »

Some people have more money than sense. The Tesla never ever will be a barge.

decade + old barges from Mercedes or Lexus have better interior build and finishing than a Tesla.

It won't be hard for Tesla to match these interiors soon , but the reverse can't be said of established brands when it comes to selling clean sheet design, non legacy issue modern efficient Mercs and BM's that have to be made with new production techniques.

They'll just have to do some blue-sky thinking outside of the box and come up with a few ballpark figures on the back of an envelope. Going forward, without drawing the attention of too many monkeys

Eric Cartman

Bigus wrote: »

It won't be hard for Tesla to match these interiors soon , but the reverse can't be said of established when it comes to selling clean sheet design, non legacy issue modern efficient Mercs and BM's and production techniques.

yes it will. BMW , Mercedes , Bentley all the big boys have serious craftsmen involved in getting the hides to the right standard for the flagship machines. The money they spend on researching leather coatings and stitching methods for cars is insane. Tesla are looking to the future, and thats perfectly fine. But even trying to fathom the concept of opening and efficiently running a hide workshop like the big german boys do is a very alien concept to them. Also the best craftsmen are headhunted by the big automakers and coachbuilders. Elon would be laying out a serious investment there to try make this work

also electric cars are mostly targeted at hippies and environment lovers and those with rich guilt trying to make a statement. Fine woods cut from rare trees and fine leathers from animals don't fit the profile of that demographic.

Toyotafanboi

Eric Cartman wrote: »

the OP's post is laughable really.

My 1999 e38 7 Series has :

3 zone climate control
front and rear parking sensors
servotronic steering
traction control
Xenon headlights
widescreen display
satellite navigation with TMC and 2015 maps
reversing camera
AV input
heated front and rear seats
power adjustable seats front and rear (including headrest adjustment and rear lumbar support)
interior comfort lighting (footwells, led illumination of the console, door handles in and out
enough nappa leather that it would have killed half a herd to make
soft close boot
keyless entry
volumetric alarm
immobiliser (can even set a code that has to be entered before it starts)
separate woofers and tweeters in each door (soon to be the more advanced DSP system that has even more)
iPod kit including control
bluetooth.

all OEM with the exception of the iPod kit and the physical reversing camera itself (OEM camera is serious cash, ebay one was 50 notes)

you'd be hard pushed to find even 90% of that list on a brand new car for under 45k today.
I bought mine for just under a grand , and with extras and bits I'm just under 5k piled into it , flew through 2 nct's , the tax is a bit annoying but its the price I pay for some that lovely 3.5 V8 pushing me about.

you know, if i didn't know better i'd say you were clutching at straws for some of that spec. i mean, power steering, alarm and immobiliser might have been exciting on a 1980's spec list but it's clutching at straws tbh. particularly to list them as seperate items to elongate the list. similarly with AV, aux and bluetooth, sure you can buy a hub on ebay to sync all that up to your existing head unit for fitty pence these days.

i mean by comparison, my 12 Astra GTC

8 speaker system with Aux and USB in with iPod control, bluetooth connectivity and DAB tuner.

Comfort lighting pack with illumination in the footwells, door handles, center console and headliner as well as puddle lights.

Automatic, cornering headlights with tunnel detection, high beam assist and guide me home functionality too.

Auto wipers.

Auto dimming rear view mirror.

Auto retractable door mirrors that dip when you enter reverse.

Half pleather interior.

Heating elements in the rear, but also in the side windows and mirrors for quick demisting of the whole car.

Hyerlink front suspension and Watts link rear suspension with 235/50/18 Alloys which leave the car very well planted.

Traction control and tyre pressure monitoring.

Parking sensors

Cruise control with speed re stricter and retarder.

if we are to get into the real nitty gritty it has adaptive power steering, an ultrasonic alarm and an immobiliser, remote locking, but so has every car ever; i think i had a POS 106 a good many years ago with a PIN code immobiliser.

admittedly it's only a 1.4 turbo 4 banger but it'l crack 0-100kmh in 9 seconds flat, only a second slower than the 735i; "in the words of JC, look at your watch, count out one second and then tell me that that's a long time" :P

in an Astra.

now admittedly, no sat nav but it was an option on that model. luckily i have a smartphone and a bit of common sense so i'd have no real need for the nav unit. no powered seats either, which would be nice but i guess adjusting my seat the day i buy a car and never adjusting it again is pretty difficult :pac:

we can all probably thrash this out until the cows come home, but isn't the idea of a flagship model to showcase just what the manufacturer can do. so isn't it only right to expect to see stuff you seen in flagship models 10-15 years ago to be knocking around in the more common makes and models today.

I feel i should point out i'm not trying to say the Astra is "better" or that the 7'er is "worse", merely that a lot of stuff that was considered "flagship spec" in luxobarges has filtered right down to stuff as mundane as an Astra.

Eric Cartman

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

you know, if i didn't know better i'd say you were clutching at straws for some of that spec. i mean, power steering, alarm and immobiliser might have been exciting on a 1980's spec list but it's clutching at straws tbh. particularly to list them as seperate items to elongate the list. similarly with AV, aux and bluetooth, sure you can buy a hub on ebay to sync all that up to your existing head unit for fitty pence these days.

i mean by comparison, my 12 Astra GTC

8 speaker system with Aux and USB in with iPod control, bluetooth connectivity and DAB tuner.

Comfort lighting pack with illumination in the footwells, door handles, center console and headliner as well as puddle lights.

Automatic, cornering headlights with tunnel detection, high beam assist and guide me home functionality too.

Auto wipers.

Auto dimming rear view mirror.

Auto retractable door mirrors that dip when you enter reverse.

Half pleather interior.

Heating elements in the rear, but also in the side windows and mirrors for quick demisting of the whole car.

Hyerlink front suspension and Watts link rear suspension with 235/50/18 Alloys which leave the car very well planted.

Traction control and tyre pressure monitoring.

Parking sensors

Cruise control with speed re stricter and retarder.

if we are to get into the real nitty gritty it has adaptive power steering, an ultrasonic alarm and an immobiliser, remote locking, but so has.

admittedly it's only a 1.4 turbo 4 banger but it'l crack 0-100kmh in 9 seconds flat, only a second slower than the 735i; "in the words of JC, look at your watch, count out one second and then tell me that that's a long time" :P

in an Astra.

now admittedly, no sat nav but it was an option on that model. luckily i have a smartphone and a bit of common sense so i'd have no real need for the nav unit. no powered seats either, which would be nice but i guess adjusting my seat the day i buy a car and never adjusting it again is pretty difficult :pac:

we can all probably thrash this out until the cows come home, but isn't the idea of a flagship model to showcase just what the manufacturer can do. so isn't it only right to expect to see stuff you seen in flagship models 10-15 years ago to be knocking around in the more common makes and models today.

I feel i should point out i'm not trying to say the Astra is "better" or that the 7'er is "worse", merely that a lot of stuff that was considered "flagship spec" in luxobarges has filtered right down to stuff as mundane as an Astra.

I think we agreed in principal, my point was that these things were all on a car 16 years ago that was a flagship , I even forgot to mention the dimming mirror (i don't have dimming side mirrors but it was an option) (tpms and adaptive cruise were options too on the e38)

the OP was saying that his new midlevel car is great and has everything a barge has so they're pointless. My argument is that you can buy a barge now for relative pennies that spec for spec matches or very often bests the average midlevel car now.

737max

I've got a dimming mirror on both luxobarge and new focus sized car.
luxobarge will do about 500km on an approx 60 litre tank. new car will do 1200km.

JohnBoy26

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

you know, if i didn't know better i'd say you were clutching at straws for some of that spec. i mean, power steering, alarm and immobiliser might have been exciting on a 1980's spec list but it's clutching at straws tbh. particularly to list them as seperate items to elongate the list. similarly with AV, aux and bluetooth, sure you can buy a hub on ebay to sync all that up to your existing head unit for fitty pence these days.

i mean by comparison, my 12 Astra GTC

8 speaker system with Aux and USB in with iPod control, bluetooth connectivity and DAB tuner.

Comfort lighting pack with illumination in the footwells, door handles, center console and headliner as well as puddle lights.

Automatic, cornering headlights with tunnel detection, high beam assist and guide me home functionality too.

Auto wipers.

Auto dimming rear view mirror.

Auto retractable door mirrors that dip when you enter reverse.

Half pleather interior.

Heating elements in the rear, but also in the side windows and mirrors for quick demisting of the whole car.

Hyerlink front suspension and Watts link rear suspension with 235/50/18 Alloys which leave the car very well planted.

Traction control and tyre pressure monitoring.

Parking sensors

Cruise control with speed re stricter and retarder.

if we are to get into the real nitty gritty it has adaptive power steering, an ultrasonic alarm and an immobiliser, remote locking, but so has every car ever; i think i had a POS 106 a good many years ago with a PIN code immobiliser.

admittedly it's only a 1.4 turbo 4 banger but it'l crack 0-100kmh in 9 seconds flat, only a second slower than the 735i; "in the words of JC, look at your watch, count out one second and then tell me that that's a long time" :P

in an Astra.

now admittedly, no sat nav but it was an option on that model. luckily i have a smartphone and a bit of common sense so i'd have no real need for the nav unit. no powered seats either, which would be nice but i guess adjusting my seat the day i buy a car and never adjusting it again is pretty difficult :pac:

we can all probably thrash this out until the cows come home, but isn't the idea of a flagship model to showcase just what the manufacturer can do. so isn't it only right to expect to see stuff you seen in flagship models 10-15 years ago to be knocking around in the more common makes and models today.

I feel i should point out i'm not trying to say the Astra is "better" or that the 7'er is "worse", merely that a lot of stuff that was considered "flagship spec" in luxobarges has filtered right down to stuff as mundane as an Astra.

Now you are clutching at straws that's just a fancy name for a regular twist beam with a £20 link added to try and address some of the drawbacks associated with that type of suspension.

Tigger

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Funny you chose a Focus as a comparison, my father has one and compared to my 7, it is a toy car in my view. I can't believe people actually spend over €20,000 on something with zero refinement, plastic everywhere, horribly uncomfortable seats, ridiculous levels or road noise and hardly any spec. I feel so vulnerable sitting in it.

Plenty of 10 year luxobarges have the specification you mention above. You're right to question the hassle though, there is inherent unreliability with any 10 year old car and the costs are very high. But not a chance are standard modern cars any more comfortable, better specced or as refined as a large engined flagship.

big cheap cars if it was easy ; everybody would do it

Hachiko

Eric Cartman wrote: »

also electric cars are mostly targeted at hippies and environment lovers and those with rich guilt trying to make a statement. Fine woods cut from rare trees and fine leathers from animals don't fit the profile of that demographic.

what he said, Serious people know a barge when they see one and they wont buy a god damn tesla.

Top seller in California and Norway....:p

Barges always have a market, most high flying presidential type want to be ushered around on the worlds finest hide and interior craftsmanship.

Toyotafanboi

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

Now you are clutching at straws that's just a fancy name for a regular twist beam with a £20 link added to try and address some of the drawbacks associated with that type of suspension.

that was pretty much my point, though i may not have conveyed it well.

like there is a lot of talking up of BS extras that have been kicking around for ages. sure Toyota were doing the hyperlink suspension in the 80's.