Nest, Hive, or Climote or other smart thermostat?

runswithascript

So with winter coming and the current Bord Gáis radio advertising campaign I have been reminded how handy one of these would be. Basically I am looking for a smart thermostat/timer that can be remotely accessed from smart devices to control the heating. When I looked at this in the past I was set on a Nest but then discovered the range or swing between when it turns the heat back on after turning it off was something like 2 degrees, and this could not be altered. That is say you have it set to turn the heating off at 20 degrees, it does this, but then will not turn it back on until 18 degrees. This may be something I could learn to live with but I would like the option to set this as low as 0.5 degrees should I want to.

Have any of you experience of all three, or did any of you consider all three (or similar devices) and settle on one for one reason or another?

I have seen mention of install prices for Nest and Hive, I wonder if you were handy enough could you fit them yourself, or get a local electrician to...

caseygkcg

I did not like the idea that climote had a monthly fee so I wanted something that would run on wifi.
I bought a device from Heatmiser which works very well as a drop in replacement for a traditional controller.
At the time the Nest box would not control both heating and hot water - not sure if that's still the case

While it may not have the "marketing cred" of nest, I'm very happy with it and a small issue I had was handled very well by their customer service.

micks

I looked into this and never went through with it BUT http://www.heatmisershop.co.uk/ seemed to rate highly

Worth looking into

yllw.ldbttr

Just to add to this thread rather than starting a new one.
I have water, upstairs and downstairs zones separate, so I need a three zone controller. Upstairs and downstairs have separate thermostats.
I'm looking for something that I can remote control, via Web or app, don't mind if there's a monthly fee but I would like more than three on or off periods per day and seven day planning. Is there anything on the market that will give me this functionality?

Dazzy

yllw.ldbttr wrote: »

Just to add to this thread rather than starting a new one.
I have water, upstairs and downstairs zones separate, so I need a three zone controller. Upstairs and downstairs have separate thermostats.
I'm looking for something that I can remote control, via Web or app, don't mind if there's a monthly fee but I would like more than three on or off periods per day and seven day planning. Is there anything on the market that will give me this functionality?

Based on a conversation I had recently with Bord Gas, the current Hive unit only supports 2 zones but the next version will support more zones. The new unit is out at the end of the year.

However, they struggled to answer almost all of the questions I had about the Hive so I'm not sure how reliable the above informaiton is.

MOTM

Some useful info here comparing several options. https://recombu.com/digital/article/smart-energy-systems-nest-hive-evohome-heat-genius-owl-tado-salus-it500-cosy_M13058.html

DGOBS

Dazzy, if you have any questions about Hive, I am pretty sure I could answer them, here or PM.

Kirk Van Houten

Has anyone got experience of setting up Hive with an oil boiler?

Who did you buy it from?
Can and/or did you control your hot water separately?
Did you fit it yourself or if not who did? (Bord Gais?)

Thanks
Kirk

Heroditas

Netatmo is another single zone thermostat but cheaper than Nest or Hive.
You also don't need to hardwire the room stat. It can be used to replace an existing hardwired room stat or you can move it from room to room. My mum and brother both have one

Galego

I have Tado for almost a year now and no regret or soever. I have the version two. I fitted it myself in no time and with no previous experience in this. It controls heat and hot water through its physical thermostat, its app or website. It will also be able to control more than one heating zones soon and they are also releasing some cool radiator led tvrs which can be controlled remotely too. It also has a IFTTT channel which is handy.
Overall I am very happy with it and would recommend it to anyone looking to have a bit more control on their heating and hot water.

At the time I bought Tado I considered all of the above names mentioned. Nest, doesn't do not water. Hive, wasnt available in ireland. Heatmiser, more expensive than Tado. The others, just couldn't find anything better than Tado for the price.

If anyone has any questions about Tado I am happy to answer them.

DGOBS

Yes, I have Hive operating an oil boiler, but it's not yet available to purchase as an installed unit for oil (should be shortly)
Yes I control my hot water independently (using Hive and motorvalve)

dmca77

I have this

---

http://www.salus-tech.com/products/thermostat/it500/

One installed in Belfast on a oil boiler for over 12 months and never had a problem.

I have one installed in Dublin for 3 weeks to gas and don't expect to have a problem, they have came down in price.

I purchased my first one in Belfast and installed myself but the one in Dublin, I had to get an electrician out as the thermostat was wired up differently.

oceanclub

MOTM wrote: »

Some useful info here comparing several options. https://recombu.com/digital/article/smart-energy-systems-nest-hive-evohome-heat-genius-owl-tado-salus-it500-cosy_M13058.html

That page shows Hive as not supporting multizone - however, elsewhere people say it does now support multizone? I'd be happy with just 2 zones - upstairs and downstairs.

P.

yllw.ldbttr

dmca77 wrote: »

I have this

---

http://www.salus-tech.com/products/thermostat/it500/

One installed in Belfast on a oil boiler for over 12 months and never had a problem.

I have one installed in Dublin for 3 weeks to gas and don't expect to have a problem, they have came down in price.

I purchased my first one in Belfast and installed myself but the one in Dublin, I had to get an electrician out as the thermostat was wired up differently.

Looks interesting.

Would it replace my timer or my thermostats, or both, would I need two of them? Site isn't clear whether it supports three zones or not.

Any idea what price they go for, no prices included on that site so I'm assuming they sell via resellers or whatever rather than direct.
I like the look of it though.

Galego

I reply to you on your questions regarding the Salus if you do not mind.

It will depend what you have at the moment. If you have only a timer then the relay will replace this and the thermostat can either be fixed to a wall or portable.

The Salus supports only two zones as far as I know. It can either be 2 heating zones (then you will need an extra sensor for the second heating zone) or one heating zone and one for hot water.
You can buy these in Amazon.

DGOBS

That page shows Hive as not supporting multizone - however, elsewhere people say it does now support multizone? I'd be happy with just 2 zones - upstairs and downstairs.

I supports 2 zones - one heating, one hot water at the moments.
Multi heating zones will be early in the new year

dmca77

yllw.ldbttr wrote: »

Looks interesting.

Would it replace my timer or my thermostats, or both, would I need two of them? Site isn't clear whether it supports three zones or not.

Any idea what price they go for, no prices included on that site so I'm assuming they sell via resellers or whatever rather than direct.
I like the look of it though.

I have mine on a single zone but you can wire it up to two zones and water heating.
I purchased my first one in Maplins and my second one with amazon.

Have you heard of rad fans? These things have made a massive different to my comfort and my gas/oil bills.
IMG_0202.JPG

IMG_0201.JPG

runswithascript

There is a lot of great advice here, and the article linked comparing the different systems helps wade through the differences. I have still to compare them all properly but I have a question...

Would any of these systems support zoning of all rooms easily, allowing the user to say turn heat on an off in different rooms though an app on their phone or tablet? We have individual pipes running to each rad if that makes any difference. From our plumber's point of view the only two zones we have are the radiators and the hot water.

Galego

dusf wrote: »

Would any of these systems support zoning of all rooms easily, allowing the user to say turn heat on an off in different rooms though an app on their phone or tablet? We have individual pipes running to each rad if that makes any difference. From our plumber's point of view the only two zones we have are the radiators and the hot water.

Honeywell Evohome does exactly what you ask there. No cheap though but may be the best suitable for your set up.

runswithascript

Galego wrote: »

Honeywell Evohome does exactly what you ask there. No cheap though but may be the best suitable for your set up.

Thanks, I watched a few videos on Honeywell's Evohome last night, and that is some system!

Definitely not cheap, we were planning to spend around €200-€300 on a smart thermostat but after I went through the design plan on Honeywell's website they quoted ~£950 for the equipment alone, installation would be extra.

That said, although I am still comparing all of the systems mentioned so far, I think being able to control the heat in each individual room would really allow us to make our home more comfortable, no more cold spots in the house etc, AND - save us money by keeping the heat off in rooms we are not using.

Can anyone tell me, is having rooms zoned at their individual rads with say Evohome TRVs, or even regular TRVs, as energy efficient as zoning or turning off individual rooms from the manifold - which is how I think legacy zoning works? What I mean is, if you had something like Evohome TRVs turning off individual rads when you want, as the valve is off, am I right that stops any more hot water flowing down the individual pipe, so no further hot water is wasted going into the pipes where the TRVs have the rads turned off - and therefore is just as energy efficient as legacy zoning which would stop hot water entering individual pipes directly at the manifold?

runswithascript

These are the videos in case anyone is interested:

Galego

dusf wrote: »

Thanks, I watched a few videos on Honeywell's Evohome last night, and that is some system!

Definitely not cheap, we were planning to spend around €200-€300 on a smart thermostat but after I went through the design plan on Honeywell's website they quoted ~£950 for the equipment alone, installation would be extra.

That said, although I am still comparing all of the systems mentioned so far, I think being able to control the heat in each individual room would really allow us to make our home more comfortable, no more cold spots in the house etc, AND - save us money by keeping the heat off in rooms we are not using.

Can anyone tell me, is having rooms zoned at their individual rads with say Evohome TRVs, or even regular TRVs, as energy efficient as zoning or turning off individual rooms from the manifold - which is how I think legacy zoning works? What I mean is, if you had something like Evohome TRVs turning off individual rads when you want, as the valve is off, am I right that stops any more hot water flowing down the individual pipe, so no further hot water is wasted going into the pipes where the TRVs have the rads turned off - and therefore is just as energy efficient as legacy zoning which would stop hot water entering individual pipes directly at the manifold?

Honeywell Evo is expensive but it is the best heating controller out in the market in my opinion. It may make more sense in big modern houses well insulated.

If you can be patience and wait some time Tado will do what you are after. They are releasing the multi heating zones this January and some fancy LED smart radiator valves next winter 2016. The company has recently got some big investment recently, siemens being one of the investors, so I can only see them getting better and better. As a start-up company, they are way more flexible to adapt to changes than Hive and others (Hive being the slowest in my view).

http://venturebeat.com/2015/10/07/germanys-nest-competitor-tado-raises-17-1m-to-grow-its-smart-home-climate-control-business/

yllw.ldbttr

Having done a lot of research it's down to either Heatmiser NeoKit 2 (and an extra Neostat for zone 2) or else Tado.
Looks like it will be another year or so before Tado can handle multi zones but I do like their idea of wireless TRVs, much like the Evohome product.
The Honeywell Evohome is probably the best option but prohibitively expensive, I have 26 rads in the house so the budget would be shot.

I will probably order direct from Heatmiser in the UK in the next few days.
Does anyone have any experience with installation, should my local electrician be able to do it or will I need a plumber as well, or someone who has experience installing them? I don't know anyone in Cork who has experience with the product.

Wearb

Excuse me if I missed it, but I didn't notice SmartZone mentioned on this thread. Well worth a look at. I think it's a Cork company.

yllw.ldbttr

Wearb wrote: »

Excuse me if I missed it, but I didn't notice SmartZone mentioned on this thread. Well worth a look at. I think it's a Cork company.

If I've understood correctly they require wires to be run to each rad? Fine for a new build but not really an option for a retrofit or upgrade?

Wearb

yllw.ldbttr wrote: »

If I've understood correctly they require wires to be run to each rad? Fine for a new build but not really an option for a retrofit or upgrade?

I didn't know that. In fact, I am very surprised that I missed that requirement.

Calibos

dmca77 wrote: »

I have mine on a single zone but you can wire it up to two zones and water heating.
I purchased my first one in Maplins and my second one with amazon.

Have you heard of rad fans? These things have made a massive different to my comfort and my gas/oil bills.
IMG_0202.JPG

IMG_0201.JPG

Recently got more interested in these smart controllers/thermostats. Not so much interested in the remote control aspects when not in the house (There is someone in the house 24/7) and more interested in the set and forget aspect, self adjusting based in interior and/or exterior ambient etc, family members able to adjust the system with an easy to understand touch screen interface and not have to be going round the house adjusting TRV's and messing with our Sunvic controller. I can operate the Sunvic no problem yet other family members can operate Smartphones and yet can't seem to grasp cycling pushbutton menus on a simply Sunvic. Can't understand that but how and ever

Seems like what I want is almost here but not quite, or here now but at an exorbitant cost. So it looks like 2016/17 I'll likely have what I want at a price I am prepared to pay.

Funnily enough I've had something like the Radfan in mind for many more years almost since just after we moved back in after a Renovation in 2010. Once we settled back into the house I decided/realised that I wanted radiator cabinets for certain rads for aesthetic reasons, other rads under certain windows and bays I wanted cabinets integrated into wainscoting detailing I wanted to do under the windows, other rads ended up with furniture ontop/infront of them. When brainstorming a ducted fan cooling system for a Gaming PC modding project I was doing, the thought occurred to me that thermostatically controlled fans fitted to the radiators would mitigate a lot of the issues caused by blocking/enclosing ones radiators. Initially I was thinking Full DIY but was pleasantly surprised there was already a product on the market. However after seeing the price for what one got I realised that what I would do myself would be to buy the cheapest/smallest radfan units and harvest the controller units but supply and fit my Own PC fans. I could buy much better, quieter and cheaper PC fans and mount them my own way in my own custom radiator cabinets.

Great to hear that the radfans are working well for you and that the principle is sound and making a real difference.

Galego

yllw.ldbttr wrote: »

Having done a lot of research it's down to either Heatmiser NeoKit 2 (and an extra Neostat for zone 2) or else Tado.
Looks like it will be another year or so before Tado can handle multi zones but I do like their idea of wireless TRVs, much like the Evohome product.
The Honeywell Evohome is probably the best option but prohibitively expensive, I have 26 rads in the house so the budget would be shot.

I will probably order direct from Heatmiser in the UK in the next few days.
Does anyone have any experience with installation, should my local electrician be able to do it or will I need a plumber as well, or someone who has experience installing them? I don't know anyone in Cork who has experience with the product.

Actually you can already order additional smart thermostats from Tado.

From their website:
For multi-zone homes or underfloor heating with more than one zone you can get Additional Smart Thermostats to control each zone individually.

These are exactly the same as the Smart Thermostats only without the tado° Bridge which connects the system to the internet. This is why they require the tado° Smart Thermostat Starter Kit (see above).

yllw.ldbttr

After further consideration I'm going to give Netatmo a go.
Ticks all the boxes for me in terms of heating.


I will look at a different solution for hot water.
Also probably going to go with Lightwave RF wifi enabled TRVs as I have 16 rads in one zone (too much) and switching them on and off manually is a pain in the ass, this scheduler will help with that.

H.E. Pennypacker

caseygkcg wrote: »

I did not like the idea that climote had a monthly fee so I wanted something that would run on wifi.
.

l

Just to clarify - Climote doesn't have a monthly fee. It costs €36 per year after the first (free) year

Redgirl82

I have climote, from what I can gather it can only do water if you have combi boiler?

I have single zone system with manual tape to regulate flow of water into hot water system so I was told I would not be able to use....I guess this is correct?

The Tado system looks interesting.....

Wearb

If your only way of controlling hot water is a manual tap, then no system can control your hot water separately. You will need to replace that tap with a motorised valve.

ted1

H.E. Pennypacker wrote: »

l

Just to clarify - Climote doesn't have a monthly fee. It costs €36 per year after the first (free) year

So 3 quid a month

worded

I've two zones and use climote. I don't use the remote option I just control it in the house:

It's totally free from SSE and bird gas I hear.

I find I excellent

Go to you tube and type in nest climote for a comparison

Free is better than 36 per year but I hear its a superior product, and free

worded

Climote tech support is free as well and 2 year guarantee

I've no affiliation with them

worded

Tech support is in ireland.

Is climote an irish product ?

ted1

worded wrote: »

Climote tech support is free as well and 2 year guarantee

I've no affiliation with them

Good products don't require tech support

worded

Plumber had never seen them before and zone 1 (heating ) stopped working.
Rang climote and was speaking to someone within 2 mins for 30 mins. Went the through all the settings with me and they remoted to it as well.

They troubleshooted it with me and disabled the thermostat to rule that out.

Anyway they said all looked good but if it was a bad climote they would ship a replacement FOC. Alt they send a tech on site but fee if it wasnt their problem = fair enough. I opted for the plumbers sparks to check it.

Climote told me to tell them to swap the zones wiring to see if it was the climote.

Problem was a motorised valve the plumer had fitted had died.

The climote was not the problem. They helped me Diag the problem.

You sometimes need tech support and its important they answer their phones.
Great product, great backup support / 2 year warranty

ted1

worded wrote: »

Plumber had never seen them before and zone 1 (heating ) stopped working.
Rang climote and was speaking to someone within 2 mins for 30 mins. Went the through all the settings with me and they remoted to it as well.

They troubleshooted it with me and disabled the thermostat to rule that out.

Anyway they said all looked good but if it was a bad climote they would ship a replacement FOC. Alt they send a tech on site but fee if it wasnt their problem = fair enough. I opted for the plumbers sparks to check it.

Climote told me to tell them to swap the zones wiring to see if it was the climote.

Problem was a motorised valve the plumer had fitted had died.

The climote was not the problem. They helped me Diag the problem.

You sometimes need tech support and its important they answer their phones.
Great product, great backup support / 2 year warranty

A multimeter and a good hanyman should have troubleshooter it in minutes.

belmulletman

dmca77 wrote: »

I have mine on a single zone but you can wire it up to two zones and water heating.
I purchased my first one in Maplins and my second one with amazon.

Have you heard of rad fans? These things have made a massive different to my comfort and my gas/oil bills.
IMG_0202.JPG

IMG_0201.JPG

Where did you get those heater fan things?

Redgirl82

worded wrote: »

Tech support is in ireland.

Is climote an irish product ?

Yes Irish company

cletus

Hi, just to jump in on this thread. Looking at the salus it500, quick question about installation. I presume the boiler receiver in the pack is just wired in place of the current switch I have in the utility room for the boiler. (Its a two zone system with a combi boiler)

belmulletman

cletus wrote: »

Hi, just to jump in on this thread. Looking at the salus it500, quick question about installation. I presume the boiler receiver in the pack is just wired in place of the current switch I have in the utility room for the boiler. (Its a two zone system with a combi boiler)

Before you go for the Salus, check out their app. It's pretty terrible! Especially on Android. A friend has it and it's just awful!

FatBeard

DGOBS wrote: »

Yes, I have Hive operating an oil boiler, but it's not yet available to purchase as an installed unit for oil (should be shortly)
Yes I control my hot water independently (using Hive and motorvalve)

Hi @DGOBS, can i ask where you got the hive. I recently purchased one off Amazon w/ self install. when i went to register it they said because it was off amazon it was meant for british gas and couldn't give me an account to use it remotely? I would have to buy from bord gais w/ installation.

prochida

Looking for a Evohome installer in Cork. I am looking at installing this system in a 4 bed Semi with 12 rads and 2 kick space heaters plus the hot tank.
I could theoretically buy the kits from http://theevohomeshop.co.uk and just replace the heads on my TRVs but I am entitled to 600 curios grant for heating upgrade and would be obliged to use a certified installer.

I may only start with the bare minimum and possibly add to it later.

cheers

fuse

I have a 3 zone system (upstairs, downstairs, hot water).

Ideally would like to get a Nest, but I know they only cover 2 zones. But I was thinking that I'd be happy to have it control downstairs and then either the upstairs or hot water.

Upstairs is probably fine to put on a manual timer as the heating times would be pretty predictable.

I know Nest is supposed to learn and know when to heat your house, but I presume you can control the timing of it yourself as well?

Does it make sense to just put downstairs heat on a thermostat? Or should it be whole house?

yllw.ldbttr

A boards user reached out to me via PM for some info on my Netatmo and I thought it worth posting my reply here also, for anyone else's benefit.


I bought direct from the manufacturer, I think it was 179 euro with free delivery.

My setup is a mess, as I bought a house last year and the previous owner hadn't really thought it out very well.
The house has all living/ dining/ kitchen downstairs and three downstairs bedrooms all on one zone. Upstairs is a separate zone (hardly ever used) and water separate again.
I didn't really care re water and upstairs zones as I have solar for water and the odd time I use upstairs I manually boost it.
So if you have one zone, or only want to automate one zone it really is the perfect solution IMHO. I had to supplement it with programmable TRVs which cut my usage in half (bedrooms on only in evening and mornings, living rooms and kitchen on by day only).

The thermostat itself is simple to install. I replaced a wired one, took maybe 15 minutes. What I really like about it is it allows unlimited on/off periods, none of the others offer more than 3 as far as I know. I control it from the app but it can be boosted from the thermostat itself. It has an e-ink screen instead of LCD display so long battery life. There's really not much to setting up the software.
Program the times you want it on and the temp each time, positioning of the thermostat is obviously important.
After two weeks it learns how long your house takes to heat up/ cool down etc and it offers you the chance to let it automate your heating subject to the timing/ program/ temperatures you've defined.
The difference here is that lets say you program heating for 19 degree at 5.30 PM.
In dumb mode the boiler will switch on at 5.30 and keep firing until it hits 19 degrees within your predefined tolerance (or until your ON period ends). It will keep the house at that temp as long as you've specified.
In smart mode, the thermostat will have figured out how long it takes to heat your house and factoring in outside temp etc it will fire up the boiler at whatever time it has calculated so that your house will hit 19 degrees at 5.30...

Which mode you want depends on your lifestyle I suppose, it offers a balance between economy and comfort.

The thermostat gives detailed stats, time on/ off etc, and a monthly report of hours of heating used, exceptions (boosts/ away mode etc) and a comparison of the performance of your house versus similar profile houses in your region.

It also offers integration with IFTTT, so you can log your usage to Google Drive, or get push notifications when the thermostat is manually boosted or the temperature is manually raised.

I think that covers all the basics.
Any questions give me a shout, will help where I can.

runswithascript

Looks like this house is going back to Electric Ireland to avail of a discounted Honeywell Evohome install of €1,200, payment plan, no recurring subscription for use, and their agent even mentioned an additional grant (not the €600 SEIA Better Energy Homes grant included in the price of €1,200):

https://www.electricireland.ie/residential/products/smarter-living/multi-zone-heating

I need to look through this thread again, but from the research I have done in the past the Honeywell Evohome is head and shoulders above the rest, the crux of which is that a single radiator in any room can turn the boiler on when necessary, just heating that room, before turning it off again.

Kirk Van Houten

Anyone ever used smartzone.ie? They are offering 2 zones and hot water for 299 euro installed with no ongoing charges.

rolion

Hi,

Any smart thermostats here that cant report back to its masters, online or cloud based please ?

I am looking for a smart system that can be controlled in a smart way BUT all end-to-end communication between system and myself, with no middle-man between ?

Thanks.

rolion

dusf wrote: »

Looks like this house is going back to Electric Ireland to avail of a discounted Honeywell Evohome install of €1,200, payment plan, no recurring subscription for use, and their agent even mentioned an additional grant (not the €600 SEIA Better Energy Homes grant included in the price of €1,200):

https://www.electricireland.ie/residential/products/smarter-living/multi-zone-heating

I need to look through this thread again, but from the research I have done in the past the Honeywell Evohome is head and shoulders above the rest, the crux of which is that a single radiator in any room can turn the boiler on when necessary, just heating that room, before turning it off again.

Hi,
Any updates / feedback on the move, installation, usage please !?
Tks