No wonder web summit moved to Portugal

thomasj

I know not all of this was transport related but it was factored in and says it all
http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/1015/735042-web-summit/

:mad:

Macy0161

Isn't it normally event organisers that propose a Traffic Management plan? They seem to very keen to pin the decision on someone else. It isn't the Governments role to interfere in hotel bookings, wifi issues, the venue - the RDS is a commercial operation.

MrMorooka

Macy0161 wrote: »

Isn't it normally event organisers that propose a Traffic Management plan? They seem to very keen to pin the decision on someone else. It isn't the Governments role to interfere in hotel bookings, wifi issues, the venue - the RDS is a commercial operation.

Well, from Appendix 2 it seems that other cities were willing to pay for the venue and traffic management plans, and wifi. Assuming those bids were accurate, Ireland made basically no attempt to match them. Instead our government just sent some 'Received, will reply | Sent from my iPhone' emails and a completely substance-less 'plan for a plan' .

The wifi issues, well, that seems to be the purview of the RDS so I'm not sure why WS mention it, but when you look at Appendix 2 it seems the competing cities were willing to resolve the issue somehow. Maybe it wouldn't have worked, but they at least had a 'can-do' attitude, our government had a 'not my department/job mate' attitude.

Definitely worth reading this https://static.rasset.ie/documents/news/web-summit-correspondence.pdf

thomasj

Macy0161 wrote: »

Isn't it normally event organisers that propose a Traffic Management plan? They seem to very keen to pin the decision on someone else. It isn't the Governments role to interfere in hotel bookings, wifi issues, the venue - the RDS is a commercial operation.

irrespective of whether or not it was their area, they should have lead the way to try and resolve the issues, maybe host meetings with the parties involved. It was in their interest, to resolve this.

no interest despite the organisers constantly stating that they wanted to remain in ireland.

Crocked

Sounds more like the organiser didn't get the money he wanted and has now thrown the toys out of the pram by running to the press with his sob story.

He's moved it to Portugal, time to get over himself.

hardCopy

The wifi issue is a very strange one, surely it was in the RDS' interest to retain such a big event? Would love to know what this bit means:

Wifi: Finally, the RDS are blocking a simple wifi solution in the RDS. They need to understand that putting up barriers that increase the cost to over €1 million this coming year, when it's free and reliable in other cities, just adds significantly to the pressures forcing us out of Dublin.

I can't really see how the government could force the RDS to implement a WiFi solution.

Macy0161

thomasj wrote: »

irrespective of whether or not it was their area, they should have lead the way to try and resolve the issues, maybe host meetings with the parties involved. It was in their interest, to resolve this.

no interest despite the organisers constantly stating that they wanted to remain in ireland.

I'm still not convinced it's the Governments role. They made a commercial decision - why do they feel the need to be so defensive about it? Only read the article, which mentions the interest the UK showed... and then they went to Portugal anyway.

Given the disruption the summit caused, I'd be annoyed if the Government did any of the things asked for without a full cost benefit analysis tbh, as it wasn't like it came cost free (in terms of disruption/ lost work time etc) for the city even before whatever they were looking for this time.

noelfirl

hardCopy wrote: »

I can't really see how the government could force the RDS to implement a WiFi solution.

Nor force hotels to engage in some sort of pricing charter. No matter how much they may gouge attendees.

Chris_5339762

Interesting how the other CITIES were proposing solutions, but they are blaming the GOVERNMENT here. Why didn't they hassle DCC?

Gumbo

If we start paying for management plans, traffic plans etc for this event, will we have to pay for them for every other event in the city !!!!

Private issues here in my opinion.

markpb

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Interesting how the other CITIES were proposing solutions, but they are blaming the GOVERNMENT here. Why didn't they hassle DCC?

Irish cities don't have much devolved power.

annfield1978

They should have prepared their own event traffic management plan, and then get it approved by DCC/NTA. Its not rocket science

Its strange that they wanted someone else to do that for them

n97 mini

Crocked wrote: »

Sounds more like the organiser didn't get the money he wanted and has now thrown the toys out of the pram by running to the press with his sob story.

He's moved it to Portugal, time to get over himself.

The WS brought in a huge amount of money from abroad.

From listening to the radio today the message came across that the authorities here weren't arsed basically, whereas those in several other places were, and made assurances that all the issues would be addressed.

uck51js9zml2yt

They had years in the RDS and had issues for years with their wifi. It was up to the event host to sort out their wifi, not the Government.
There's enough events in the RDS with large numbers of people attending that would have justified it.

As for the Government making private enterprises cut their room rates. In his interview on RTE he fudged the question. I cant imagine the Portugese Government making the hotels cut their rates.


In short - Its a cop out. He didn't get his at together over the last few years and now wants to blame everyone else.

strandroad

I've read the files and there is definitely a fundamental misunderstanding there. The government saw them as a prestigious business event and they were happy to engage to support them albeit in a limited manner, as it is a commercial undertaking after all. The organisers on the other hand saw the event as a blessing to the city and presented a long list of requirements ("asks"), many if not most of them are normally paid for and which they intended to receive for free. There was in fact an official plan to support the event, but not with the direct support they were looking for, in services given or fees waived. This is hardly surprising as the authorities would be taken to task for such spending, just imagine the headlines in relation to the homeless crisis. The government's reaction is therefore somewhat baffled, and Web Summit comes across as quite irritable at not being recognised.

If what they are saying is true and other cities were indeed happy to pay for it all plus guarantee hotel prices, and government ministers were in daily contact, clearly their priorities are different and the organisers should avail of them.

strandroad

noelfirl wrote: »

Nor force hotels to engage in some sort of pricing charter. No matter how much they may gouge attendees.

I'll be interested to see how it works out for them in Lisbon; they do raise their hotel prices for events too, I'm not sure how this could be prevented.
Public transport is much better though (excluding trams, which are often ancient and slow) and the expo area much more spacious.

alcaline

Dot com bubble 2.0 is inbound, let the Portuguese host it when it happens and they will be associated with the crash, then Dublin swoops back in to host once things pick up again.

thomasj

This time last year the taoiseach rang the NASDAQ opening bell from the web summit .

Today he stated

The Web Summit are fully entitled to make their decision, I expect that vacuum will be filled by others in a relatively short time

That reeks of we don't need you we can do better without you!

Jamie2k9

They followed the money, the key things they wanted bar the Wifi and expecting Goverment to interfere is a joke.

If they wanted to be fully open they would reveal how much they received....

Nichard Dixon

kceire wrote: »

If we start paying for management plans, traffic plans etc for this event, will we have to pay for them for every other event in the city !!!!

Private issues here in my opinion.

Not really. The RDS, the Conference centre, are where these type of events take place. You shouldn't need a different plan for each event, but a generic plan for events at these locations which can be tailored to a specific event.

I think the idea of these events as being entirely a private matter needs to examined as does the start from scratch approach every time. Plans for the RDS could cater for anything from the Horse Show to the Web Summit. There is also an attitude in Ireland that if a lot of people want to go somewhere that that is a nothing to do with public transport providers etc, whereas in many European cities public transport aims to cater for need.

Hotel rooms have maximum rates in many cities and I'm sure did in Ireland in the past. As Cosgrove said these rates don't have to be cheap, just not outrageous.

The WiFi is not the fault of the Taoiseach though.

bk

mhge wrote: »

I've read the files and there is definitely a fundamental misunderstanding there. The government saw them as a prestigious business event and they were happy to engage to support them albeit in a limited manner, as it is a commercial undertaking after all. The organisers on the other hand saw the event as a blessing to the city and presented a long list of requirements ("asks"), many if not most of them are normally paid for and which they intended to receive for free. There was in fact an official plan to support the event, but not with the direct support they were looking for, in services given or fees waived. This is hardly surprising as the authorities would be taken to task for such spending, just imagine the headlines in relation to the homeless crisis. The government's reaction is therefore somewhat baffled, and Web Summit comes across as quite irritable at not being recognised.

If what they are saying is true and other cities were indeed happy to pay for it all plus guarantee hotel prices, and government ministers were in daily contact, clearly their priorities are different and the organisers should avail of them.

And that is exactly the problem.

Many in the Irish government and Irish civil servants are simply morons who don't understand the modern world.

The IT industry is at the absolute heart of the Irish economy. The success and growth of the Irish economy over the last 30 years is down purely to the IT industry in Ireland. The recent reversal of the Irish recession and return to growth is again down to the IT industry in Ireland.

But other countries and cities in Europe have woken up to how important the IT industry are and they are all now aggressively competing to bring the multinational IT companies to their cities and the best and the brightest young people from around the world to their cities to work at these companies.

The Irish government has to realise that it can't just sit back and rack in the money, that it has to work hard to keep these companies in Ireland and attract new ones to our shores. That it is of vital importance to the Irish economy.

The Web Summit was an event created here in Ireland that grew into a premier international event that brought a great deal of prestige to the Irish IT industry.

Frankly the government should have been bending over backwards to keep this event in Ireland. It doesn't matter that it is a commercial event, cities and countries are always expected to work hard to bring such events to them as it creates a great direct boast to the economy and an even more important long term effect to the industries of the country.

The things that the WS organisers are complaining about are things that any of us in this forum will be well aware of. The lack of proper public transport infrastructure in Dublin and organisation of it.

I have long said there are two different Irelands and we are seeing the clash of cultures here.

You have young, modern Ireland. The very well educated young people of Ireland working side by side with the best and brightest from all over the world at some of the top companies of the world, the Googles, Facebooks, Apples.

Incredibly smart and hard working professionals who expected top quality services and support.

Then you have what I call old Ireland. The former teachers and pub owners from rural Ireland who have become politicians and lazy civil servants. People who only care about getting re-elected, which means getting pot holes filled in their constituencies and turning up to every road opening and funeral, but do little else.

These people have little understanding what it means to be hard working and productive, what the multinationals need and the people who work for them expect.

High quality, well integrated public transport. High quality cycling infrastructure. Nice cities that are easy to live in with nice, large high quality apartments and the infrastructure needed to support them. High quality broadband available to all.

We have been saying over the last few weeks how they are failing miserably to look after this most important part of Irish society. Lack of regulation of building quality at Longboat Quay, cancellation of DART Underground and kicking Metro North down the road and now losing the Web Summit due to the lack of engagement.

The Irish government needs to wake the feck up! They need to realise that Dublin isn't competing with Mayo, that it is competing with Lisbon, Zurich, London, San Francisco and that it needs to do everything in it's power to keep top events like this and companies and their employees here in Ireland.

I don't like here politics, but I have to agree completely on this:

Renua Ireland leader Lucinda Creighton said the Coalition needed to learn that developing a cohesive, effective jobs policy was far more complex than "gallivanting" in front of the camera at carefully staged photo shoots.

And more excellent points here:

Chief Executive of the Dublin Chamber of Commerce Gina Quinn said there has been a failure in long-term planning for Dublin, including investment in infrastructure, which is now having a negative impact.

Speaking on RTÉ’s Morning Ireland, Ms Quinn said there is not enough money being spent on infrastructure in Dublin.

"Well I think that we have in Dublin, failed to actually put together effective long-term planning for the region. We have had, everybody knows, a long period of recession," she said.

"What that has meant is that we have not had building of hotels, of office accommodation, of housing. And all of those things now are coming back to bite us as the economy is picking back up."

She added that we have to now look at Ireland and Dublin's reputation as a tech hub that was nurtured and developed by having the Web Summit in Dublin and we also have to look at the kind of investment we are willing to make in these areas.

Exactly, this isn't just a one off event. It is evidence of systemic underinvestment in the infrastructure of Dublin due to rural pump politics.

Losty Dublin

Last year the Web Summit hired the RPSI to provide a train to bring some of them to Cork. They were horrified to discover days beforehand that there was no on board WIFI or barista bar on the 50 year old Craven set and kicked up blue murder over same

uck51js9zml2yt

I assume this is being held on the PARC de Nacoes - expo convention centre.
If that's the case public transport is very good in the area .

Good luck to them getting the hotels to keep their prices down though!

n97 mini

I've just read the files. While there is a very laid back attitude from the govt e.g. days to answer emails - and then with one liners, and a certain degree of hand-washing and book-passing, it reads like Paddy Cosgrove knew what he was dealing with, was expecting the govt to trip up, and kept pushing them till they did.

Presumably he chose not to deal with "the city" as they have no control over IE, DB etc.

n97 mini

Losty Dublin wrote: »

They were horrified to discover days beforehand that there was no on board WIFI

Very easily and cheaply provided.

Losty Dublin wrote: »

or barista bar

I'm sure that could have been provided too.

Assuming they were asked for from he outset?

Eugene Norman

n97 mini wrote: »

The WS brought in a huge amount of money from abroad.

From listening to the radio today the message came across that the authorities here weren't arsed basically, whereas those in several other places were, and made assurances that all the issues would be addressed.

If Dublin is crowded anyway why would anyone care about this. Dublin can clearly handle rock concerts, big games of rugby and football. Maybe it just can't handle the web summit ( who wudda thought).

delahuntv

thomasj wrote: »

irrespective of whether or not it was their area, they should have lead the way to try and resolve the issues, maybe host meetings with the parties involved. It was in their interest, to resolve this.

no interest despite the organisers constantly stating that they wanted to remain in ireland.

why?

Maybe every event should contact Taoiseach's office for everythig they want.

Next Cosgrave will be demanding for the sun to shine everyday and dictate the colour of taxis turning up.


Think - Ploughing championship have noissues running an event with 280,000 people attending over 3 days.

Maybe Cosgrave just isn't up to it?

delahuntv

Remeber this is a PRIVATE money making event organised by a PRIVATE company who charge plenty themselves.

Why shoudl the taxpayer cointribute to every whim of Mr Cosgrave?

Also, it may yet come out, some European cities after showing interest in holding the event, decided not to pursue it! - It would be interesting to know why!

munchkin_utd

delahuntv wrote: »

Remeber this is a PRIVATE money making event organised by a PRIVATE company who charge plenty themselves.

Why shoudl the taxpayer cointribute to every whim of Mr Cosgrave?

Also, it may yet come out, some European cities after showing interest in holding the event, decided not to pursue it! - It would be interesting to know why!

well, just look at the hotel income
Just an average of €250 per room (which actually seems to be on the low end), for 30,000 delegates staying for 3 nights is 22.5 million Euro coming into the country.
Add in spend per person on food, taxis etc and theres easily another 10+million, and just having people of influence in the country can bring in multiples of that if its the marginal difference in them being a little more favourable to Ireland with investment or job announcements.

something went amiss here, but maybe the lesson to be learnt is that a horse loving argicultural society isn't the best location for high tech events, and Ireland maybe needs to build something appropriate instead.

Losty Dublin

n97 mini wrote: »

Very easily and cheaply provided.



I'm sure that could have been provided too.

Assuming they were asked for from he outset?

It was provided for in both cases, yes, but they paid for it. It was only when they contacted the society demanding asking for an outside company to access for a coffee to board the train that they found out that vintage train sets actually aren't t fitted out with functioning barista bars or full on WIFI

bk

I'm sorry but people are nuts to defend this madness!!

Conferences are big money for cities and countries and they bring a great deal of prestige and focus to a city.

Having worked on some big conferences for IT multinationals in San Francisco, I can tell you that the City of San Fran has an entire department dedicated to running major conferences like these. The staff of this department work every day closely with the organisers of major events, leasing with the other city departments such as transport, police, etc. making sure everything goes smoothly.

They have invested heavily in their conference district, with great public transport around there and lots of parking with excellent control getting too and from the events. And it goes to show in just how well SF is doing and growing.

What I read from these communications it was purely amateur hour from the Irish government.

And it is really just an extension of the terrible focus on Dublin and infrastructure of Dublin by our government and as someone who works in the IT industry it is down right scary how bad our government are at this. It really seems like they are trying to kill the goose that laid the golden egg!

And unfortunately non of this is surprising to me. I've experienced it from government departments over the last 15 years in terms of building quality broadband infrastructure in Ireland and again with public transport infrastructure.