Extra "free" preschool year

Millem

I am just trying to get my head around this as my boy will be 3 in January 2017.
I read on citizens information that you join the scheme in September, January, or April. I presume it is the 1st? If so my boy can only join from April. Does get more hours per week paid for? (Read something old on a government website that weekly grant is more if starting it later?)

I am viewing a stand alone montesorri in 2 weeks for next year and a crèche (in case he is not toilet trained . Both accept the ECCE scheme.

January

It's not starting until Sept 2016.

Diamond Doll

Millem wrote: »

I am just trying to get my head around this as my boy will be 3 in January 2016.
I read on citizens information that you join the scheme in September, January, or April. I presume it is the 1st? If so my boy can only join from April. Does get more hours per week paid for? (Read something old on a government website that weekly grant is more if starting it later?)

I am viewing a stand alone montesorri in 2 weeks for next year and a crèche (in case he is not toilet trained . Both accept the ECCE scheme.

Millem he'll only be 2 in January 2016! (We were in the January 2014 mums group together.)

Millem

Diamond Doll wrote: »

Millem he'll only be 2 in January 2016! (We were in the January 2014 mums group together.)

Gosh sorry I am getting all confused!! I will edit original post
Sorry he is enrolling in sept 2016 but won't be 3 until January 2017

Primary school is sept 2018.

January

Haha that's ok then, I'm presuming the January 2016 intake will be just for kids that turn 3 on or before January 1st or they may have a mid date of January in mind.

I doubt he'll get more hours paid for though.

Moonbeam

Here it is summed up - http://www.dcya.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=3624

Millem

January wrote: »

Haha that's ok then, I'm presuming the January 2016 intake will be just for kids that turn 3 on or before January 1st or they may have a mid date of January in mind.

I doubt he'll get more hours paid for though.

I think your right January
There was this old link on the Montessori's school website http://www.dcya.gov.ie/documents/childcare/ecce_scheme_pack/guide_for_parents_final_240909.pdf
It says that the gov pay €48.50 per week but if child starts in January they pay €64.50

Ms2011

So my son is doing his ECCE year this year, does that mean he will be able to register for an extra year starting Sept 2016 or is it just new applicant that this applies to??

January

Ms2011 wrote: »

So my son is doing his ECCE year this year, does that mean he will be able to register for an extra year starting Sept 2016 or is it just new applicant that this applies to??

He can also do Sept 2016.

Q. My child is eligible for ECCE this year but as I don’t intend on him/her starting primary school until September 2017 I was waiting until September 2016 to use the ECCE entitlement. If I register my child for the ECCE Programme now will s/he also be eligible for ECCE for the 2016/17 Programme year?

A. Currently, children who are aged between 3 years 2 months and 4 years 7 months (Born between 2nd February 2011 and 30th June 2012 inclusive) are eligible for 38 weeks’ of free pre-school when they register for the programme.

The change announced in Budget 2016 means that, from September 2016, children will be able to register for free pre-school when they are aged 3, and will be able to remain in pre-school until they make the transition to primary school (provided they are not older 5 years 6 months at the end of the pre-school year i.e. the end of June).

The change to the pre-school programme announced in yesterday's budget take effect from September 2016.

Children who are currently enrolled for the free pre-school programme (i.e. on the basis of the eligibility criteria which applied in September this year) will be able to continue in the programme in September 2016 - once they are not older than 5 years and 6 months at the end of the current pre-school year i.e. June 2017)

From September 2016 the minimum enrolment age for free pre-school is age 3. years 7 months (Born between 2nd February 2011 and 30th June 2012 inclusive) are eligible for 38 weeks’ of free pre-school when they register for the programme.

The change announced in Budget 2016 means that, from September 2016, children will be able to register for free pre-school when they are aged 3, and will be able to remain in pre-school until they make the transition to primary school (provided they are not older 5 years 6 months at the end of the pre-school year i.e. the end of June).

The change to the pre-school programme announced in yesterday's budget take effect from September 2016.

Children who are currently enrolled for the free pre-school programme (i.e. on the basis of the eligibility criteria which applied in September this year) will be able to continue in the programme in September 2016 - once they are not older than 5 years and 6 months at the end of the current pre-school year i.e. June 2017)

From September 2016 the minimum enrolment age for free pre-school is age 3.

monflat

So to clarify a child born between 2 feb 2011 and 30 th June 12 can avail of a free year now and another free year in sept 16
They then will start school in
Sept 2017 5 yrs and a few months old?

Ms2011

That's great, was on the fence as to whether or not to start him in primary school at 4.5 or 5.5, was leaning more towards 5.5 but didn't know what to do with him for the year in between, this has definitely helped make my mind up

pwurple

Ah Ffs. So they have changed the starting age from 3 years 2 months to 3 years? Basically shifting the birthday slightly so shedloads of children won't qualify. What a load of complete tripe. We will still only get one year so.

Millem

pwurple wrote: »

Ah Ffs. So they have changed the starting age from 3 years 2 months to 3 years? Basically shifting the birthday slightly so shedloads of children won't qualify. What a load of complete tripe. We will still only get one year so.

Yes pwurple....best case scenario for us is 1 year and from April of previous year. Tbh if you work full time it won't really make a huge saving
I don't see why they couldn't tackle the actual problem of childcare fees ie €1000 per month for a baby in a creche :mad: I work with a girl who had a baby then twins a year later...she has been on career brea because her childcare bill was going to be €2,400 :eek:

pwurple

I'm grasping, but Maybe the 'termtime' of play school will cover the summer? Starting in April for a few weeks and then summer off could be unsettling for a child that age.

cyning

I think the whole thing is they want to stop kids going to school until they are 5 or just 5...

S was born in March so will start in April and get two years and 3 months: she won't be starting school until she's 5. Which we had decided anyway even before this.

yellow hen

cyning wrote: »

I think the whole thing is they want to stop kids going to school until they are 5 or just 5...

S was born in March so will start in April and get two years and 3 months: she won't be starting school until she's 5. Which we had decided anyway even before this.

My son is the same as your little one cyning. I had already decided he'd start school at 5.5 so this just makes the financial pain a little easier.

strongback

cyning wrote: »

I think the whole thing is they want to stop kids going to school until they are 5 or just 5...

S was born in March so will start in April and get two years and 3 months: she won't be starting school until she's 5. Which we had decided anyway even before this.

I'm a bit confused. It seems to me that the length in weeks of the second free pre school year is dependent on what month a child is born.

My boy was born in February 2014 so it seems he will get to errol in the 3 rd term of 2017 and the 12 weeks April to June will be one of his preschool years. His second free preschool year will be Sept 2017 to June 2018.

The government said the average length of the new free preschool year will be 23 weeks. If a child is born in the summer they will get the full two years.


Here's an explanation I read on one of the big cresches website.

Some examples of how we expect it will work from September 2016:

• If a child turns three in August 2016, they will join the ECCE programme in September 2016 and will remain in pre-school until they choose to start school in either September 2017 or September 2018.

• If a child turns three in November 2016, they will join the scheme in January 2017 and stay until they start school in September 2018.

• If a child turns three in February 2017, they would join pre-school in April 2017 and stay in the ECCE programme until they start school in September 2018.

cyning

That's completely unfair... I had read it differently. So basically a few extra weeks? Fantastic altogether.

John Mason

this is all speculation, the finer details haven't been pinned down yet.

I think this is great, my monkey wont be starting until he is 5.5, I had planned on deferring his free year until the year before he went to big school!

Professionally this is a nightmare for me, I am dying a little inside just thinking about all the additional meetings and arguments this is going to cause. LOL

pwurple

Yes, looks like a birthday lottery. If the child is born in May, June, July or August the parents get the most benefit from this.

New random edict:
Henceforth, the population is to have procreative sex only in September, October, November or December. All children conceived outside this window will be penalised accordingly.

:pac:

Spread the love

So glad they brought in a 2nd year. My daughter is an August baby and I don't think she'll be ready for school when she's just turned 4. The only thing is for variation, I want her to do the 2 years in 2 separate preschools. My local Naionra are great but she'd just be doing the same thing 2 years in a row and I obviously don't want that. I'm thinking of sending her to another preschool further away for her first year in September 2016. I'm wondering how this might work and does anyone know if she was in for the full week, how much approx would this cost?

Neyite

It's worked out well for us. Toddler is in his ECCE year since last month, but I'd also made the decision to hold off school until he was just gone 5, which would have meant that I'd have had another year of full crèche fees. I know I wont get a full year out of it, but it will make a nice dent in the overall crèche bill.

John Mason

Spread the love wrote: »

So glad they brought in a 2nd year. My daughter is an August baby and I don't think she'll be ready for school when she's just turned 4. The only thing is for variation, I want her to do the 2 years in 2 separate preschools. My local Naionra are great but she'd just be doing the same thing 2 years in a row and I obviously don't want that. I'm thinking of sending her to another preschool further away for her first year in September 2016. I'm wondering how this might work and does anyone know if she was in for the full week, how much approx would this cost?

there is no problem in changing crèches. you just get the old crèche to complete a leavers form (well that is the situation at the moment, who knows what will happen next year).

the cost would depend on the facility

Lucuma

Neyite wrote: »

It's worked out well for us. Toddler is in his ECCE year since last month, but I'd also made the decision to hold off school until he was just gone 5, which would have meant that I'd have had another year of full crèche fees. I know I wont get a full year out of it, but it will make a nice dent in the overall crèche bill.

Does the creche charge you less if your child spends part of the day in pre-school then?

John Mason

Lucuma wrote: »

Does the creche charge you less if your child spends part of the day in pre-school then?

you get a reduction of 62.50 or 48.50 each week. Depending on whether you are on 38 or 50 week

cyning

Here it seems to be what I was saying originally alright: https://www..ie/briefing-for-members-budget-2016/

Basically a child born Jan - March will get two full years and 3 months of 3 hours per day...

Millem

cyning wrote: »

Here it seems to be what I was saying originally alright: https://www..ie/briefing-for-members-budget-2016/

Basically a child born Jan - March will get two full years and 3 months of 3 hours per day...

Can't get link to work! But I presume that is if I delay sending him to primary school? I work full time so I would have an extra years (big)bill of childcare after ECCE scheme payment

pwurple

cyning wrote: »

Here it seems to be what I was saying originally alright: https://www..ie/briefing-for-members-budget-2016/

Basically a child born Jan - March will get two full years and 3 months of 3 hours per day...

I think that's only if you keep them out of school until they are nearly 6.

cyning

https://www.earlychildhoodireland.ie/briefing-for-members-budget-2016/

Sorry right link there now I hope!

S will be starting at 5.5... I think 4.5 is too early but I know lots of people don't so she will get a decent amount of time.

RentDayBlues

My second is a Feb baby so we're in the process of deciding what to do. She's wel beyond her age as it is and I can't imagine keeping her off any form of school until September 2017, because although the scheme allows enrolments in April no where will be able to take her as they will all be full! It's ridiculous, it should have been an extra year with the same conditions

Suucee

My daughter was doing 2 days a week in preschool since sept. I was paying. She would have been eligible for free yr since she was 3yrs 4mnths in sept but i had planned on starting school at 5.4. So now we are going to get a refund for what we paid already. The preschool doesnt have space for 5 days but will give her 3 under the ecce. Im happy with that though. Then next yr she will do it again 5 days a week.

My son was a march baby. He will be 3 march 2017. I had planned on starting him sept 2017 but now you have me a lil confused cyning. I dont think they could really get that extra out of it. I was planning sept 2017 and sept 2018 and school 2019. Its confusing now with the april intake. No way will i send him to school at 4.
Ill ask As preschool next week. Its so far away anyway sure it will probably have changed by then again.

mirrorwall14

Ok I don't get any of this! I had a baby in january 2015 (ie this year). What am I looking at in terms of options? I would assume he should start school at 4 years 8 months rather than 5 years 8 months which would make him nearly 6

RentDayBlues

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Ok I don't get any of this! I had a baby in january 2015 (ie this year). What am I looking at in terms of options? I would assume he should start school at 4 years 8 months rather than 5 years 8 months which would make him nearly 6

Mine is February and I'm not keeping her off school until she's 5 1/2, she's a second child and she'd go now if she could! I think if they're more 4 1/2 consider sending them, but it's down to each individual child.

mirrorwall14

So how will you be running the "Free" preschool rentdayblues? This is my first baby so I've no idea how this stuff works

RentDayBlues

Suucee wrote: »

My daughter was doing 2 days a week in preschool since sept. I was paying. She would have been eligible for free yr since she was 3yrs 4mnths in sept but i had planned on starting school at 5.4. So now we are going to get a refund for what we paid already. The preschool doesnt have space for 5 days but will give her 3 under the ecce. Im happy with that though. Then next yr she will do it again 5 days a week.

I thought in order to qualify for ecce it had to be full time, not part time.

moving_home

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Ok I don't get any of this! I had a baby in january 2015 (ie this year). What am I looking at in terms of options? I would assume he should start school at 4 years 8 months rather than 5 years 8 months which would make him nearly 6

I'm sending my January baby at 4 and 8 months ie 2019. I don't know exactly but I think with the way the eligibility criteria works we will only be able to send them from the April intake so if we sending them at 4+8 they will only get 12 weeks from April - June 2018. Then will get the full year from Sept 2018 - June 2019. And start school September 2019.

cyning

Sorry Succee!

Ya basically babies born Jan - March are entitled to the longest amount of free time. If you look at the (second!) link I posted that's what Early Childhood Ireland are saying anyway. So for S it will be starting in April 2017 and going to school Sept 2019. Again details are still sketchy though.

For me id prefer to have them being 5/5.5 but like everything else it's personal preference 😊

Moonbeam

This sums up the weeks easier.

http://www.dcya.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=1143 might help too.

RentDayBlues

But the issue is that most montessori's won't be able to take in students at any time of the year other than September, is it not the case that they allocate a percentage of spaces for ecce and the rest for full fees?

So for us that means that we were going to send our youngest part time in September 2016, but now with this supposed second year we won't be able to get anyone to take the other part of the week and pay for it when they could otherwise get it free if they went full time. We're looking at having to pay for a full time place from September for a full year and then get the one free ecce year as we're not holding her back for school until she's 5 1/2. Likewise it doesn't make sense to keep her at home for that year or find somewhere else when her sister is already in the school.

Moonbeam

I don't think that there will be many kids left paying full fees,I also think in most places all ECCE places will be gone in the Sept.
I currently pay for my sons place and paid for a year each for the girls pre ecce too.

Suucee

RentDayBlues wrote:

I thought in order to qualify for ecce it had to be full time, not part time.

So did i. But i think we have been allowed as she is already in the preschool but there just wasnt a full time place available. The pre school runs the risk of losing 6 students. As they all qualified for this year but deferred until next yr in order to start school at 5. We had all been paying for part time up until now. now the second ecce yr was brought in we are taking up this years place.

RentDayBlues

Suucee wrote: »

So did i. But i think we have been allowed as she is already in the preschool but there just wasnt a full time place available. The pre school runs the risk of losing 6 students. As they all qualified for this year but deferred until next yr in order to start school at 5. We had all been paying for part time up until now. now the second ecce yr was brought in we are taking up this years place.

That works well for you. Our pre school is the opposite, they are now in the position of having to cancel on students for next year as some current students will stay on for another year. They're not going to increase the number of students so people are losing out here. We're not as bad as othera but its annoying that something meant to save us money will actually cost us more money now, typical government

angeldelight

Thanks for the chart Moonbeam, that simplifies it a lot! Looks like it actually won't make a difference to us. Our little girl was born end of April and when speaking to the school when enrolling her they said most kids they have starting are 4 so if we do same we'll still only get the one year

pwurple

I have to say, I'd hate to be someone running a preschool with this system. Children starting in January, April, September, but all ending in June. confused parents, staff requirements ramping up and down again all year. Who on earth is just going to want to work only from April to June when the max children are there?

The assumption from the govt is of course that the parents will have to stump up the rest of the year's cost in Creche fees to the same facility. But I know that not all crèches are preschools.

Also, age 3 can have a various range of abilities with children. There are two purpose built ECCE preschools near me. Neither have baby changing rooms, the children need to be fully toilet trained. But I know plenty of 3 year old's are still a bit funny about toilets at that age. They get a lead in, but it must piss them off to have the goalposts moved like this without consultation.

sillysocks

It frustrates me that this has been billed as the childcare part of the budget. While it will save us money as we had planned on sending our youngest for 2 years to Montessori and would have paid for part time the first year, how does this help parents who are working really?

Unless you have childcare that's a pre-school and then crèche it actually adds to the dropping and collecting, and what do people who work do for afternoons and school holidays then? Still paying through the roof for childcare for those times.

Originally we had planned part time for the first year and could have worked that around family who work part time and could collect him, but I assume now the Montessori will only want full time kids.

Sorry I'm rambling and probably not making much sense!

Moonbeam

It helps people that are working full time as they get a portion of their creche and some childminders cost paid for 2 years instead 1.

pwurple

Moonbeam wrote: »

It helps people that are working full time as they get a portion of their creche and some childminders cost paid for 2 years instead 1.

Only if the Creche is also a preschool, AND doesn't require additional enrolment to keep staff employed, AND the parents want to keep the child in preschool until they are nearly six AND they were born in whatever birthday window allows it.

Talk about needlessly complicated.

Would a tax credit or just plain adding a second year not have been easier?

Anyway, I'll hold my moaning for the TD's who knock n the door, with the rest of my list. :> It's better than nothing.

Moonbeam

I would love an extra tax credit for the kids,we pay so much tax and i feel that we don't get a lot in return for it.

unklerosco

pwurple wrote: »

I have to say, I'd hate to be someone running a preschool with this system. Children starting in January, April, September, but all ending in June. confused parents, staff requirements ramping up and down again all year. Who on earth is just going to want to work only from April to June when the max children are there?

My wife runs a preschool, I don't think you're going to see what you mentioned happening.. (just to be clear, I only knows the basics of the system) Children won't be starting in Jan/April, I think what you'll find is parents will start their children in September and pay until Jan/April when it switches to ECCE.

Along with that you'll have parents looking for a part time place until the ECCE kicks in. I can see preschools not taking part time places, it may be the case that if you want a place you will have to take a full time spot until the ECCE kicks in.

As someone mentioned for some parents this will actually cost them more money... It's a beautiful example of Irish over-complication..

RentDayBlues

unklerosco wrote: »

My wife runs a preschool, I don't think you're going to see what you mentioned happening.. (just to be clear, I only knows the basics of the system) Children won't be starting in Jan/April, I think what you'll find is parents will start their children in September and pay until Jan/April when it switches to ECCE.

Along with that you'll have parents looking for a part time place until the ECCE kicks in. I can see preschools not taking part time places, it may be the case that if you want a place you will have to take a full time spot until the ECCE kicks in.

As someone mentioned for some parents this will actually cost them more money... It's a beautiful example of Irish over-complication..

But is it not also true that most playschools only take a certain number of ecce as they don't get as much for this as normal full time? Our school will no longer take part time

Millem

RentDayBlues wrote: »

But is it not also true that most playschools only take a certain number of ecce as they don't get as much for this as normal full time? Our school will no longer take part time

I have come across a few stand alone montessorris (who are attached to a junior school in south dublin) who have a fee even though it is finishing at 12.30! And it is in €2k+ per year and it is not optional. They said it's because they supervise kids from 8/8.15. But it is probably because the government money is not enough.