Electrical estimating software

Randyleprechaun

Just wondering what's the most commonly used electrical estimating software(s) in use in Ireland.

With updated prices databases and possibility to print multiple reports etc. Easy to use and reasonable costs

For small/medium contractor

Thanks

2011

I have used Excel spreadsheets populated with information gathered over the years.

Stoner

Estimation.co.UK by amtech

Tefral

Amtechs Estimation is the one used most often by the likes of Mercury and Kirbys but I find the whole thing very cumbersome. I'm an Electrical QS and do all mine up on excel for clients.

The thing is you have to put the prices into estimation and theres a job every two weeks to update the price of cable in it.

2011

cronin_j wrote: »

Amtechs Estimation is the one used most often by the likes of Mercury and Kirbys but I find the whole thing very cumbersome. I'm an Electrical QS and do all mine up on excel for clients.

This is they way I see breakdowns of quotations presented by small and large contractors so I always assumed that excel was used to generate the estimates in the first place.

Tefral

2011 wrote: »

This is they way I see breakdowns of quotations presented by small and large contractors so I always assumed that excel was used to generate the estimates in the first place.

No what happens is in estimation it spits out all the cable and terms etc in a jumbled mess really and it requires extra time and work to tidy it to a format someone who wants to review will understand.

Randyleprechaun

I've actually used amtech estimation quite a bit in the past. If setup correctly and used correctly it should require no extra work to present all the information on a bid in seconds. It can actually present dozens of different reports if information is inputted correctly.

I was just wondering if there was anything else being used out there. That software is quite expensive for irish users. It requires a subscription etc.

Advantage of the likes of estimation is how quick it makes doing take offs, which is what takes the longest afterall

2011

cronin_j wrote: »

No what happens is in estimation it spits out all the cable and terms etc in a jumbled mess really and it requires extra time and work to tidy it to a format someone who wants to review will understand.

I think it depends on the project. I can't see how anything could beat Excel when pricing some projects. I have no doubt that it would be lacking for other projects.

I reviewed a number of tenders for projects in the pharmaceutical industry and I had to provide input in a estimating exercise for a project in the semi-conductor industry not so long ago. In all of these cases Excel was the only tool used and these were not small projects.

Most of the expensive kit was free issued so the electrical contractor was supplying very little in terms of materials apart from cabling, containment and unistrut. After that it was down to calculating the hours. The experienced contractors (all of them) already knew what it would cost to install, connect, terminate, test / commission / loop check and complete the necessary paperwork for each device. Then there is the "x-factor", as in trying to estimate time lost organising permits, method statements etc.

Tefral

2011 wrote: »

Then there is the "x-factor", as in trying to estimate time lost organising permits, method statements etc.

I normally price that into a markup for prelims.

agreed though nothing beats excel!

The real question out there is a type of software that could count all the lights and sockets. I find that most tedious and time consuming part.

Ive 3 primary care centres on my desk at the moment and im blue in the face from counting sockets etc

Stoner

Tbh I've used many estimating software packages. Imo excel is how everyone starts off but it has limits

With estimation.

You can pay for auto prices updates, and set up templates for your standard commodity items.
Estimation has excellent reporting features, you can group like items, auto generate a BOQ, a schedule of rates, quantified schedule of rates, buying list. You can build a database of kits for complete item sets eg lighting points etc.

As pointed out there is a lot of database work involved in the set up and training is required.

With estimation you can update your costs for old estimates with your new labour and material rates.

Excel doesn't handle costheads very well either so it is a job to build a budget from it if win you a job. It's fast but limited and won't imo teach the discipline required to estimate certain projects.

Pleanty of contractors only use excel. Its fast on the initial quote but it's easy to make a mistake when altering it.

If you want something that has more global benefit to your business then estimation is the way to go but not unless you have the time and ability to learn to use it. With excel you have to have the uptodate material costs too, you still need to get this information


For example some might add an amount of money into the prelims for non productive time, like airport work or prison work, that's fine, but if the estimate changes in size you have to make sure you go back and adjust the prelims too. As estimates get bigger excel requires a good bit of work to reflect a single change. Some people are very good at this though. Also if you are being tracked on additions via a set of rates your labour rates would need to be corrected or compensated constantly unless you tracked the non productive time to the labour norm.

In estimation in the labour set up you can add an element for non productive time that will track your overall labour hours in the job. You can change your project to shift work quickly too.

Tbh excel is great, people know how to use it and its fast. If you price similar types of work excel is good. It's good for schedules too.

Sometimes estimation just wont work, like for domestic work, you'd need excel or both.

But excel is not part of a company database and its speed is enhanced by its isolation outside an ERP set up, its biggest advantage is its biggest downfall imo, but its certainly essential.

Stoner

2011 wrote:

I know that CAD has a "find and replace" function for text, I assume that it will work for symbols (but I don't know for sure). When it is used it will count how many it has replaced. So perhaps you find all of the socket symbols and replace them with a near identical symbol using this function and it will count the number it replaced. Then you will know how many are on each drawing very quickly. Just a thought

Tbh this has a lot of downsides there are software's designed for this that use ocr on pdfs they colour the symbols they count, still needs a visual check though.

Helpmefarm

Pay a Electrical QS I find is the best solution for jobs you want done accurately and have a chance of getting. If pricing a job that a builder is pricing 20 others and then goes to Dutch auction, just fire a rough price at it and if in the running double check then if needs be.

Tefral

Helpmefarm wrote: »

If pricing a job that a builder is pricing 20 others and then goes to Dutch auction, just fire a rough price at it and if in the running double check then if needs be.

That's all well and good but how then do you know how far to drop your price without actually taking away from your bottom line?

Tefral

Stoner wrote: »

Tbh this has a lot of downsides there are software's designed for this that use ocr on pdfs they colour the symbols they count, still needs a visual check though.

Which software is this?

Stoner

cronin_j wrote:

Which software is this?

Counterfire

Helpmefarm

Well when this generally happens someone takes it below cost regardless so why bother wasting good time pricing it right. You only get used for a price to win a job and then the vultures come and undercut at any price. That the way it rolls in our neck of the woods.

Tefral

Stoner wrote: »

Counterfire

Got a link?

Stoner

cronin_j wrote:

Got a link?

http://www.countfire.com

Randyleprechaun

Helpmefarm wrote:

Pay a Electrical QS I find is the best solution for jobs you want done accurately and have a chance of getting. If pricing a job that a builder is pricing 20 others and then goes to Dutch auction, just fire a rough price at it and if in the running double check then if needs be.

I am an electrical qs and that's why I'm looking for some software that can speed things up a little for me. I cannot see how excel could be of any benefit. I only use it at the minute to compile the figures for filling into the tender breakdown. It would be of no benefit to me in doing the actual take offs, which is where i see a chance for speeding things up.

Looks like estimation is the only option.

Stoner

Estimation won't help with take off time at all. Just input and manipulation afterwards.
Look at the link above to speed up take offs

And look at the masters in Collaborative BIM. QS steam to prepare for taking quantities from a BIM model and pricing using qs packages

Tefral

Randyleprechaun wrote: »

I am an electrical qs and that's why I'm looking for some software that can speed things up a little for me. I cannot see how excel could be of any benefit. I only use it at the minute to compile the figures for filling into the tender breakdown. It would be of no benefit to me in doing the actual take offs, which is where i see a chance for speeding things up.

Looks like estimation is the only option.

What way have you your sheets? I use excel and it doesnt take that long at all. I find the biggest waste of time is sitting down with a highlighter and taking off all the fittings etc. Hopefully the software named above actually does the job. I have requested a trial.

Stoner

I had a think about this and read that you used this before, you must have used the digitizer pad for your kits etc. You are correct when set up correctly it does save time. Particularly when you use your kit library with it.

Randyleprechaun

Stoner wrote:

I had a think about this and read that you used this before, you must have used the digitizer pad for your kits etc. You are correct when set up correctly it does save time. Particularly when you use your kit library with it.

I've never used the digitiser. Basically, i want to find a quicker way than using biro and paper to do take offs.

Used estimation when worked for bigger company. Working alone now.

Had conversations worth amtech but their cheaper packages for smaller contractors aren't suitable for ireland as don't have euro darabase.

Stoner

Ok Lads,

2011 and I are in agreement, I verified the user above that is associated with the estimation software,

To be fair I linked it originally.

So it seems to be interesting to some users here that have a genuine requirement.

I know a bit about these systems and if you want l can expand on some of the free tools mentioned in his last text with some links to some videos etc it might help.

I don't want to breach advertising laws here, but we are putting users requirements out front, I'm confident that we can get some help from Will, save me looking into it more too.

Helpmefarm

You know what would be fun lads. If we got a set of plans. We all price it with the same hourly rate and % margin and see Wat we all come up with. ???

Tefral

Helpmefarm wrote: »

You know what would be fun lads. If we got a set of plans. We all price it with the same hourly rate and % margin and see Wat we all come up with. ???

If your gonna do it do it small. Like one floor of an office. Couldnt be arsed wasting my time otherwise ha ha

Will J

Stoner wrote: »

Ok Lads,

2011 and I are in agreement, I verified the user above that is associated with the estimation software,

To be fair I linked it originally.

So it seems to be interesting to some users here that have a genuine requirement.

I know a bit about these systems and to be fair if Will would like to expand on some of the free tools mentioned in his last text with some links to some videos etc it might help.

I don't want to breach advertising laws here, but we are putting users requirements out front, I'm confident that we can get some help from Will, save me looking into it more too.

Hi Guys,

As Stoner mentioned above, the mods have agreed to me posting on the basis there's a genuine interest, and that the spirit of it is for the good of the community.

The free tools I mentioned are the following:

- Document comparison — Automatically highlights changes between two specifications:

http://www.rapidtender.com/document-comparison


- Change finder — Automatically finds changes between two sets of tender information:

http://www.rapidtender.com/change-finder

Document comparison in particular has been a huge time saver for me when pricing large projects as when you receive a revised specification it allows you to upload your two specs, and then have the changes auto highlighted.

Hopefully these free tools help and I'm happy to answer any questions.


Will

2011

Great stuff, thanks Will.

stingking

Just wondering if anyone knows of a book or PDF that would list common electrical assemblies or kits we use in Ireland or the UK?? I want to make prepopulated ones to use in estimates. By assemblies / kits I mean

2 GANG SOCKET

2.5 T&E - 8M
FLUSH BOX METAL - 1
2 RED PLUGS
2 SCREWS
2 GANG SOCKET FACEPLATE
ETC.


I would like to have this for conduit, tray, etc

Stoner

The Talking Bread wrote:

If you look at the lyrics of Mountains of Pomeroy it is pretty clear that they are far more offensive if you think Murray was digging out a song to take a dig at Mickey Harte. It is about a young woman who gets killed.

TBH it's a mornings work to make your own , a couple of hours would see you straight imo
I don't know of a book with them written in them

The truck is to keep it generic

Build small kits that can be used as blocks for bigger ones

stingking

I am just afraid of forgetting some of the smaller items in assemblies I would not be overly familiar with. Maybe I am just trying to be too accurate on what is meant to be an estimate. Would love something to work off though

hufpc8w3adnk65

Your not going to price and list red rawl plugs. Use a unit rate per item. I.e €100 for a twin socket. This covers first and second fix. So when you look a a drawing you see 25 double sockets you know it 2500 and work the price out that way