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Harsh ?

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  • 10-10-2015 11:29am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,332 ✭✭✭


    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/oct/10/mother-jailed-after-son-drowned-as-she-checked-facebook

    Harsh in my opinion. The bit about the kid being nearly knocked down isn't great but I think the blaming on her more concerned about facebook is a bit much.

    Accidents can happen in a heartbeat and it seems she tried to save the child as soon as she coped as to what was happening.

    You can't watch kids 24/7. Accidents happen and its tragic but on the face of it 5 years seems lengthy.

    Perpetrators of intentional savage assault get away with suspended sentences.

    I'm taking this on the article. There may be more than meets the eye.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭Very Bored


    From the article it sounds like she didn't watch her kid at all nevermind not being able to watch him 24/7.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,379 ✭✭✭donegaLroad


    children need constant supervision when playing in, or near water.

    It is really sad, but this girl was found to have seriously neglected her child before when she allowed him to play in the road, and almost got hit by a car as a result.

    The 5 year sentence should be a warning to other parents who are in the habit of starring into their iphones while their children wander around the place unsupervised.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,754 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    From the article -
    Barnett, who has since moved to Nottingham, was interviewed by police and gave officers varying accounts of what happened in the garden of her former home.

    The court also heard how she had let Joshua play out in the road when she lived in Hull in August 2013. Neighbours contacted social services after he narrowly avoided being hit by a car. Barnett pleaded guilty to four counts of child cruelty.

    Judge Jeremy Richardson told her: “Your son died due to your neglectful conduct. You will have to live with that for the remainder of your life. For a parent to behave as you did, repeatedly, amounts to consistently bad parenting.


    For four counts of child cruelty, I don't think the sentence was at all harsh tbh.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,332 ✭✭✭Heckler


    Very Bored wrote: »
    From the article it sounds like she didn't watch her kid at all nevermind not being able to watch him 24/7.

    One incident of nearly being knocked down. Hows that translate to never minding her kid ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,068 ✭✭✭Tipsy McSwagger


    The court also heard how she had let Joshua play out in the road when she lived in Hull in August 2013. Neighbours contacted social services after he narrowly avoided being hit by a car. Barnett pleaded guilty to four counts of child cruelty.

    Any decent mother would have taken this as a massive eye opener and been a lot more vigilant to knowing where their son was at all times. Mistakes can be made by parents but you learn from them and become extra cautious if your child has a habit of wandering off.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,332 ✭✭✭Heckler


    From the article -




    For four counts of child cruelty, I don't think the sentence was at all harsh tbh.

    In this PC bull**** world 'won't somebody think of the children age' denying a child a bar of chocolate or access to facebook is considered an act of child cruelty. Until I hear what those 4 charges were actually for I'll hold off judging her.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭Very Bored


    @Heckler Who the hell lets their two year old play in the road? I have a six year old and I wouldn't let him do it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,687 ✭✭✭✭Penny Tration


    He was two when he died in March 2014. She let him play alone on a road in August 13, so he could have been even younger than 18 months.

    Sounds like the first incident didn't cop her onto herself so yeah, I agree with the sentencing


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭Very Bored


    Exactly, letting an eighteen month old play out in the road unsupervised. Doesn't equal good parenting in my book.

    And can we put this c**p that denying a kid a chocolate bar or access to Facebook is seen as child abuse to bed? No it is not, that's hyperbole in the extreme. But neglecting your child is abuse in most people's eyes, politically correct or otherwise.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,754 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Heckler wrote: »
    In this PC bull**** world 'won't somebody think of the children age' denying a child a bar of chocolate or access to facebook is considered an act of child cruelty. Until I hear what those 4 charges were actually for I'll hold off judging her.


    I wasn't judging her, I was saying that a five year sentence for four counts of child cruelty isn't harsh. She has already plead guilty to those four counts, and been judged, and sentenced. Denying a child a chocolate bar or access to facebook isn't considered an act of child cruelty one is likely to be charged with as a criminal offence.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,332 ✭✭✭Heckler


    Very Bored wrote: »
    @Heckler Who the hell lets their two year old play in the road? I have a six year old and I wouldn't let him do it.

    I agree if thats what happened. May be a case of just once the toddler got loose. Sure if she let him out like that lock her up.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    We need more sentencing like this to send a message. There was an inquest here this week where a baby died as a result of the airbag deploying while the 3 month old was on his mother's knee as she drove on the wrong side of the road and crashed. No criminal case was brought.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,332 ✭✭✭Heckler


    I wasn't judging her, I was saying that a five year sentence for four counts of child cruelty isn't harsh. She has already plead guilty to those four counts, and been judged, and sentenced. Denying a child a chocolate bar or access to facebook isn't considered an act of child cruelty one is likely to be charged with as a criminal offence.

    I was being facetious about the chocolate bar etc. When i was a nipper the wooden spoon across the back of the legs for a transgression was, while not often, used. This would be considered child abuse/cruelty these days.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭LDN_Irish


    Heckler wrote: »
    In this PC bull**** world 'won't somebody think of the children age' denying a child a bar of chocolate or access to facebook is considered an act of child cruelty. Until I hear what those 4 charges were actually for I'll hold off judging her.

    You couldn't make it up. Except that's exactly what you just did.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,687 ✭✭✭✭Penny Tration


    Heckler wrote: »
    I was being facetious about the chocolate bar etc. When i was a nipper the wooden spoon across the back of the legs for a transgression was, while not often, used. This would be considered child abuse/cruelty these days.

    What has that and your previous post got to do with a mother leaving her toddler unsupervised, resulting in him nearly being hit by a car and ultimately dying after the second time?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭Very Bored


    @Heckler Its unlikely her neighbours are so cruel as to report her to social services for an accident. Its likely to have been a repeated thing and the near accident was the final straw. I have a number of neighbours with kids. In similar circumstances I would support all but one of them because I know with them it would be an accident. The other I would report because she doesn't bother her a**e minding her kids at the best of times.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Heckler wrote: »
    In this PC bull**** world 'won't somebody think of the children age' denying a child a bar of chocolate or access to facebook is considered an act of child cruelty. Until I hear what those 4 charges were actually for I'll hold off judging her.

    Here's a fact for you ....... her child is dead.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,332 ✭✭✭Heckler


    LDN_Irish wrote: »
    You couldn't make it up. Except that's exactly what you just did.

    Fair enough. Like I said I was being facetious but theres no doubting that parenting 2 decades has changed and in my opinion for the worse.

    When I was young we were out all hours playing rounders, kick the can etc. if I didn't get home for dinner my mother knew I was being fed by my buddys mother.

    Nothing has changed in terms of dangers to kids except the hysterical nonsense spouted by social media especially Facebook where idiots burn down a pediatritions clinic because they don't know the difference between someone who abuses children and someone who saves them.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Heckler wrote: »
    Fair enough. Like I said I was being facetious but theres no doubting that parenting 2 decades has changed and in my opinion for the worse.

    When I was young we were out all hours playing rounders, kick the can etc. if I didn't get home for dinner my mother knew I was being fed by my buddys mother.

    Nothing has changed in terms of dangers to kids except the hysterical nonsense spouted by social media especially Facebook where idiots burn down a pediatritions clinic because they don't know the difference between someone who abuses children and someone who saves them.

    Nothing has changed??? :confused:

    Awareness has changed ......... and parents have had to change along with it ........ not sure if you're joking or not?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭LDN_Irish


    Heckler wrote: »
    Fair enough. Like I said I was being facetious but theres no doubting that parenting 2 decades has changed and in my opinion for the worse.

    When I was young we were out all hours playing rounders, kick the can etc. if I didn't get home for dinner my mother knew I was being fed by my buddys mother.

    Nothing has changed in terms of dangers to kids except the hysterical nonsense spouted by social media especially Facebook where idiots burn down a pediatritions clinic because they don't know the difference between someone who abuses children and someone who saves them.

    Actually agree with you about FB and the missing people being circulated for years despite being found the same day the post was made. Or scaremongering about "the new way gangs are finding women to rape" etc etc.

    Dunno if things have really changed the worse. There are kids playing outside my house right now. I was in my aunt's house last night and my son played outside with his friends. He's 6. I don't let my 2 year old out to play on her own. It's about assessing risks, this woman didn't do that. Would you leave a small child to play around a pond without supervision?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,754 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Heckler wrote: »
    Fair enough. Like I said I was being facetious but theres no doubting that parenting 2 decades has changed and in my opinion for the worse.

    When I was young we were out all hours playing rounders, kick the can etc. if I didn't get home for dinner my mother knew I was being fed by my buddys mother.

    Nothing has changed in terms of dangers to kids except the hysterical nonsense spouted by social media especially Facebook where idiots burn down a pediatritions clinic because they don't know the difference between someone who abuses children and someone who saves them.


    Can you fathom at all why this woman was charged with four counts of child cruelty?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,379 ✭✭✭newacc2015


    We need more sentencing like this to send a message. There was an inquest here this week where a baby died as a result of the airbag deploying while the 3 month old was on his mother's knee as she drove on the wrong side of the road and crashed. No criminal case was brought.

    I'm sorry but we have been handing putting ****ty parents in jail for hundreds of years. Yet we still have ****ty parents. Even death sentences for neglect parenting probably wouldn't do much.

    Some people just lack intelligence. Personally I think everyone in receipt of child benefit should be made do a parenting course. I guarantee it never crossed that mother's mind to put a safety net on that pond. Instead of just putting ****ty mothers in jail to make it clear to others to be better mothers. Why not give parents the knowledge to be better parents ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,332 ✭✭✭Heckler


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    Nothing has changed??? :confused:

    Awareness has changed ......... and parents have had to change along with it ........ not sure if you're joking or not?

    I'm not joking at all. Kids are too closeted and wrapped up in woolly blankets. We are living in a paranoid age where noone is to be trusted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,687 ✭✭✭✭Penny Tration


    Heckler wrote: »
    I'm not joking at all. Kids are too closeted and wrapped up in woolly blankets. We are living in a paranoid age where noone is to be trusted.

    So it's okay that she left a toddler unattended on a road and at a pond?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,332 ✭✭✭Heckler


    Can you fathom at all why this woman was charged with four counts of child cruelty?

    Of course I can. But give me the details of this cruelty. UK judges have a history of conflating what I would call pissy offences into melodramas.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    newacc2015 wrote: »
    I'm sorry but we have been handing putting ****ty parents in jail for hundreds of years. Yet we still have ****ty parents. Even death sentences for neglect parenting probably wouldn't do much.

    Some people just lack intelligence. Personally I think everyone in receipt of child benefit should be made do a parenting course. I guarantee it never crossed that mother's mind to put a safety net on that pond. Instead of just putting ****ty mothers in jail to make it clear to others to be better mothers. Why not give parents the knowledge to be better parents ?

    We've been putting murderers, rapists and thieves in prisons for hundreds of years too ......... prison isn't preventative (and it doesn't generally rehabilitate), it's punishment and/or preventative of future crimes by an individual.

    Human beings to do not need to be taught that a vulnerable child is at almost constant risk if left unsupervised .......... "I'm sorry your Honour, I didn't realise my 2 year old didn't know that he couldn't swim" ......... bullsh*t in my opinion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,622 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Heckler wrote: »
    I'm not joking at all. Kids are too closeted and wrapped up in woolly blankets. We are living in a paranoid age where noone is to be trusted.
    I don't think this particular case should be championed as an example of your cause.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Heckler wrote: »
    I'm not joking at all. Kids are too closeted and wrapped up in woolly blankets. We are living in a paranoid age where noone is to be trusted.

    I'm not paranoid .......... I don't trust anybody I don't know with my children, I don't trust my children to be 100% aware of the dangers that surrounds them, that's my job ......... I'm a realist.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Samaris


    newacc2015 wrote: »
    Some people just lack intelligence. Personally I think everyone in receipt of child benefit should be made do a parenting course.

    Because obviously it's only the poorer people in society that would ever harm or neglect their kids.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,332 ✭✭✭Heckler


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    I'm not paranoid .......... I don't trust anybody I don't know with my children, I don't trust my children to be 100% aware of the dangers that surrounds them, that's my job ......... I'm a realist.

    Its this social media driven paranoia that allows distressed children to be ignored for fear that if someone, especially a male, trys to lend a hand they'll be branded a pedophile. If I saw an upset child I'd ask for a females help before I ever approached them. Thats a sad reflection on our current society.


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