The Haka: What would AH suggest as the best response?

Carlo Ancelotti

15 elderly priests in wheelchairs shouting FECK OFF !!

Fleawuss

Samaris wrote: »

I really don't care if they haka - actually, I lie a bit, I'd prefer them to keep the haka. It's a bit of performance, it's entertaining and it's a bit of actual passion in sport, which is pretty rare.

I see no harm in it. I'm assuming that the French team crossed the 10m line, which is what they actually got done for.

Do something in return - although don't go for deliberate rudeness. I don't think we could quite get away with dancing, but I dunno, a howl or something. Sure, it'll look demented the first time, but I bet the NZ team wandering out and starting to dance looked a bit insane the first time too.

To whoever was complaining about the throat-slitting gesture being obscene, nah, I can't agree with that. At least, not any more than I'd agree that the lines in various national anthems are obscene or threatening, for example;

No more our ancient sire land/Shall shelter the despot or the slave - Ireland, I wonder who they're talking about..?

"We swear by the lightning that destroys, By the streams of generous blood being shed"
"When we spoke, none listened to us, So we have taken the noise of gunpowder as our rhythm, And the sound of machine guns as our melody" - Algeria

Mercenary swords, they're feeble reeds. The Austrian eagle has already lost its plumes. The blood of Italy and the Polish blood it drank, along with the Cossack. But it burned its heart." - Italy, specifically having a go at Austria! Although they do follow up with the rather defeatest;

“Let us join in the cohort
We are ready to die!
We are ready to die!"

"Render your chest as armor and your body as trench!" - Turkey, being worrying and somewhat incomprehensible, but definitely threatening

"Do you hear in the countryside, the roar of these savage soldiers, they come right into our arms, to cut the throats of your sons!" Hi France!

"The path to glory is built by the bodies of our foes." - Vietnam, probably not offering a cup of tea.


Nope, not too worried about a throat-slitting gesture in a Haka war dance.

Seeing as Iwas the poster immediately before this post it seems strange you couldn't just quote but each to their own. Great research into national anthems: note how the French one identifies throat slitters with invasion. Singing a song is a huge step away from being forced to face a group of men who make throat slitting gestures. Making such a gesture directly towards people is obscene. There should be no exemptions for rugby players.

peasant

There must be a few Lederhosen left behind in the Aviva ... put them on, do this

osarusan

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Try reading what I wrote again. Neither team can advance past their own 10m line. The All Blacks can't advance and neither can the opposition.

If you want to link arms and advance, then start on the 22m and march forward to the 10m line. Simple.

Try reading what I wrote again - if there are rules which limit the opposition regarding what they are allowed to do, then they are (blatantly obviously) not allowed to do whatever they want.

It is baffling that you can't understand what 'whatever you want' means.

katydid wrote: »

From what I understand, they must not cross over the line; that is the reason they would be fined.

The problem is that you don't understand - you were unaware until this morning that they could be fined. You still managed to miss the link on the previous page highlighting how a team was fined for not facing the haka - another limitation on how they can behave during the haka.

Dyr

Another example of why rugby is a load of oul cobblers, if it was gaelic the opposition would just start a digging match as soon the macarena nonsense was started

Samaris

Fleawuss wrote: »

Seeing as Iwas the poster immediately before this post it seems strange you couldn't just quote but each to their own. Great research into national anthems: note how the French one identifies throat slitters with invasion. Singing a song is a huge step away from being forced to face a group of men who make throat slitting gestures. Making such a gesture directly towards people is obscene. There should be no exemptions for rugby players.

Oh, were you? I'd been skimming back and forth a bit and lost your post; didn't remember who it was. But look, I quoted this time!

I don't really know that it is, to be honest. One is singing or verbally threatening your general foe without really meaning it, the other is a physical gesture as part of the dance to a general foe without really meaning it. One can argue that it is much more directed to the people in front of them, buuut...

I dunno. I can compare it a bit to a middle finger during it, which I think would be rather more inappropriate. But that seems a fine line to draw. Alright, I take your point, I just draw the line in a slightly different place.

Fleawuss

Samaris wrote: »

Oh, were you? I'd been skimming back and forth a bit and lost your post; didn't remember who it was. But look, I quoted this time!

I don't really know that it is, to be honest. One is singing or verbally threatening your general foe without really meaning it, the other is a physical gesture as part of the dance to a general foe without really meaning it. One can argue that it is much more directed to the people in front of them, buuut...

I dunno. I can compare it a bit to a middle finger during it, which I think would be rather more inappropriate. But that seems a fine line to draw. Alright, I take your point, I just draw the line in a slightly different place.

"Without really meaning it." If it's so meaningless why does it need protection in IRB rules. Personally I think it's a bizarre primitive ritual best answered with ridicule or if they're taking themselves seriously, arrest.

sonofenoch

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

What they gonna do? Kick the ****e outta ya, its rare that NZ lose in rugby

I could care less really, I never went to a private school.....like most everyone else I might watch rugby for the occasion bit like Wimbledon in the Summer but the truth be known I could give a toss for tennis or rugby

Yeah_Right

osarusan wrote: »

Try reading what I wrote again - if there are rules which limit the opposition regarding what they are allowed to do, then they are (blatantly obviously) not allowed to do whatever they want.

It is baffling that you can't understand what 'whatever you want' means.



The problem is that you don't understand - you were unaware until this morning that they could be fined. You still managed to miss the link on the previous page highlighting how a team was fined for not facing the haka - another limitation on how they can behave during the haka.

Wow! Pedantic! The All Blacks can't advance past the 10m line and neither can the opposition. What part of that don't you understand. Behind those lines they can do whatever.

They weren't fined for not facing the Haka. That is a lie. They were fined for advancing past the 10m line. Do you understand?

osarusan

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Behind those lines they can do whatever.

Are teams allowed to huddle or do a warm-up while the Haka is being performed without being in trouble with the IRB?

booooring!

Just start mooning them during it.

Love to see that. Full blown brawl I'd say.

Yeah_Right

osarusan wrote: »

Are teams allowed to huddle or do a warm-up while the Haka is being performed without being in trouble with the IRB?

Ask the IRB.

katydid

Fleawuss wrote: »

A proportionate Western European response to being on the receiving end of a throat slitting gesture is to hand it to the police.

If it is a genuine threatening gesture, not if it's part of an ancient ritual dance.

osarusan

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Ask the IRB.

You haven't a notion, do you?

Post after post of nonsense, and you can't answer that simple question because you don't know.

The Herald understands that there is no reference in the SANZAR tournament laws to player behaviour during the haka, but the warning is clear that in future IRB tournaments, such as next year's World Cup in New Zealand, the haka must be treated with respect.

It has been made clear by international rugby's ruling body that while New Zealand rugby teams lay down the challenge, opposition teams are expected to stand motionless and make no reaction.

Yeah_Right

osarusan wrote: »

You haven't a notion, do you?

Post after post of nonsense, and you can't answer that simple question because you don't know.

I do have a notion. You're just boring me with your whinging about the Haka.

Yes they can huddle, sing, warm up, do a dance, pray, whatever. As teams have done.

What should Ireland do? What is your recommendation?

osarusan

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I do have a notion. You're just boring me with your whinging about the Haka.

Yes they can huddle, sing, warm up, do a dance, pray, whatever. As teams have done.

What should Ireland do? What is your recommendation?

Did you read the quoted text in my post?

IRB rule is that teams stand motionless and make no response.

Fleawuss

katydid wrote: »

If it is a genuine threatening gesture, not if it's part of an ancient ritual dance.

A ritual threatening and intimidating dance. Otherwise do it in s cultural center.

katydid

Fleawuss wrote: »

A ritual threatening and intimidating dance. Otherwise do it in s cultural center.

So, given that rugby players don't make a habit of carrying knives while playing rugby, what is the likelihood of the implicit threat being carried out?

Fleawuss

katydid wrote: »

So, given that rugby players don't make a habit of carrying knives while playing rugby, what is the likelihood of the implicit threat being carried out?

Who knows? Best let a court decide.

Fleawuss

katydid wrote: »

So, given that rugby players don't make a habit of carrying knives while playing rugby, what is the likelihood of the implicit threat being carried out?

PS If they had knives doing it they would cut their own throats.

katydid

Fleawuss wrote: »

Who knows? Best let a court decide.

I hardly think you need to go to a court to know that if someone doesn't have a knife, it's rather difficult, in fact impossible, for them to slit someone's throat.

Fleawuss

katydid wrote: »

I hardly think you need to go to a court to know that if someone doesn't have a knife, it's rather difficult, in fact impossible, for them to slit someone's throat.

Why don't you test it out? A threat to injure doesn't require the presence of a weapon at the time. If it is meaningless then it has to be fair game for ridicule.

katydid

Fleawuss wrote: »

Why don't you test it out? A threat to injure doesn't require the presence of a weapon at the time. If it is meaningless then it has to be fair game for ridicule.

So you think that the rugby players in question are going to slit their opponents' throats after the match.

I thought we were already in the realms of the ridiculous...

Fleawuss

katydid wrote: »

So you think that the rugby players in question are going to slit their opponents' throats after the match.

I thought we were already in the realms of the ridiculous...

We are with primitive war dances permitted. But not apparently according to the IRB. Aren't they awful eejits to go on with threats like it.

Samaris

Honestly, I'm kinda sad that people want to get rid of one of the few really good, unique bits of spectacle in sports. "Primative war dance" or not, sports appeals to primative instincts.

UnitedWeStand

The worst thing about the Haka is that World Rugby strictly prevents most forms of opposing it. You have to stand 10 metres away. If you advance any further or refuse to stand there your rugby union faces penalties.

Yeah_Right

osarusan wrote: »

Did you read the quoted text in my post?

IRB rule is that teams stand motionless and make no response.

Wrong. Read it again. If there is no response allowed then why are both teams allowed to do their challenges when PI teams play each other. Going by what you said only one team can do a challenge.

osarusan

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Wrong. Read it again. If there is no response allowed then why are both teams allowed to do their challenges when PI teams play each other. Going by what you said only one team can do a challenge.

Response to the Haka while the Haka is being performed. Not before, not after. While.

While it is being performed, the opposition stands there motionless and show it respect.

They shouldn't huddle, do warm-up exercises, or 'whatever they want.'

UnitedWeStand

Samaris wrote: »

Honestly, I'm kinda sad that people want to get rid of one of the few really good, unique bits of spectacle in sports. "Primative war dance" or not, sports appeals to primative instincts.

True. I love the haka. Even before I started playing rugby I knew of the haka. It is a great symbol of our sport.

osarusan

Samaris wrote: »

Honestly, I'm kinda sad that people want to get rid of one of the few really good, unique bits of spectacle in sports. "Primative war dance" or not, sports appeals to primative instincts.

I don't want to get rid of it, I love watching it.

But the IRB making it a rule that the opposition must stand and face it is nonsense.