Disputing claim regarding damage to car

Colemania

I'm currently trying to help out my mother in a claim made against her for damage done to a car. We are attending legal aid tomorrow so will find out more then but i'd like to get opinions here first.

So basically what happened was my mother was a passenger in a car which was parked. She opened her door to get out and as it was very windy, the wind blew the car door open which hit the car next to it. The owner of the car was sitting in the car at the time (what are the chances) and got out to exclaim that there was damage done to the car. My mother explained it was accidental but both parties agreed there was no major damage, if any at all done to the car.

So my mother thought that was it and went in to do her shopping. When she came out, the guy was standing beside her car giving out that there actually was damage done to the car..... He took photos of her insurance and license plate and she started taking pictures of the car door, which shows no damage. The guards were called but after waiting half an hour, the other guy left to collect his kids and my mother continued to wait. The guards eventually came and took her details. He then also made contact with the other guy in question and started in his follow up report that no damage was done to the car.

So in the meantime, my mother's insurers call her to say a claim has been made against her and an engineer is going to assess the damage done to the car. From this point to the point of the engineer's report, no contact was made to my mother and after 1 quotation and an engineers report (a month after the incident), a bill was sent to my mother for 700 euro!! The car had already been fixed before my mother even knew about it! It stated on the report that the fee had been agreed with my mother and that there was "moderate impact" to the car!

So now we're at a point where the insurers want to claim against her insurance and we're seeking legal aid to see how we can dispute the claim. I'd also like to mention that my mother admitted to the door blowing open and hitting the car but also stated that no damage was done to the car.

The guards report hasn't been consulted by the insurers also and it has recently been sent to them but they have declined to comment on it. The guy who repaired the car also didn't know how much he charged for the repair which is quite odd.....

Anyway I hope we get it sorted as my mother is getting awful stressed by the situation.

To Elland Back

Can I ask what you mean by 'the insurers want to claim on her insurance'? Just trying to understand.

Colemania

To Elland Back wrote: »

Can I ask what you mean by 'the insurers want to claim on her insurance'? Just trying to understand.

Her own insurers want either my mother to pay the claim or put it through her insurance, so in essence affecting her no claims bonus and increasing her insurance next year. Yes she won't have to pay any money for the claim in theory but her insurance will go up by a few hundred I imagine

goldenhoarde

Colemania wrote: »

I'm currently trying to help out my mother in a claim made against her for damage done to a car. We are attending legal aid tomorrow so will find out more then but i'd like to get opinions here first.

So basically what happened was my mother was a passenger in a car which was parked. She opened her door to get out and as it was very windy, the wind blew the car door open which hit the car next to it. The owner of the car was sitting in the car at the time (what are the chances) and got out to exclaim that there was damage done to the car. My mother explained it was accidental but both parties agreed there was no major damage, if any at all done to the car.

So my mother thought that was it and went in to do her shopping. When she came out, the guy was standing beside her car giving out that there actually was damage done to the car..... He took photos of her insurance and license plate and she started taking pictures of the car door, which shows no damage. The guards were called but after waiting half an hour, the other guy left to collect his kids and my mother continued to wait. The guards eventually came and took her details. He then also made contact with the other guy in question and started in his follow up report that no damage was done to the car.

So in the meantime, my mother's insurers call her to say a claim has been made against her and an engineer is going to assess the damage done to the car. From this point to the point of the engineer's report, no contact was made to my mother and after 1 quotation and an engineers report (a month after the incident), a bill was sent to my mother for 700 euro!! The car had already been fixed before my mother even knew about it! It stated on the report that the fee had been agreed with my mother and that there was "moderate impact" to the car!

So now we're at a point where the insurers want to claim against her insurance and we're seeking legal aid to see how we can dispute the claim. I'd also like to mention that my mother admitted to the door blowing open and hitting the car but also stated that no damage was done to the car.

The guards report hasn't been consulted by the insurers also and it has recently been sent to them but they have declined to comment on it. The guy who repaired the car also didn't know how much he charged for the repair which is quite odd.....

Anyway I hope we get it sorted as my mother is getting awful stressed by the situation.

Who's car was she in, her own or a third party?

Are they trying to claim of a policy on another car/home?

What's the excess on the policy in question?

Did you mother admit liability on the day and agree to repair the car?

goldenhoarde

goldenhoarde wrote: »

Who's car was she in, her own or a third party?

Are they trying to claim of a policy on another car/home?

What's the excess on the policy in question?

Did you mother admit liability on the day and agree to repair the car?

based on your latest post Did your mother admit liability on the day and agree to repair the car? if she did she either pays the bill or lets it through her insurance?

listermint

This is what insurance is for, Your mother may have to pay some money depending on policy some insurers expect you to pay a portion of the claim up to for example 200 / 400 / 800 depending on what policy they signed up under. and the insurance company handles the rest.

The fact is your mothers car damaged another car, that is unfortunately not in dispute here. I suggest that the quotes for work are examined you could insist on a second or third quote. But it sounds like it maybe in the realms of 100-300.

goldenhoarde

if the assessor who viewed the car deemed there was damage then that's what the insurance company will accept that and not the guards report who may have noted no visible damage if they even inspected the car that is (which is unlikely!)!

cml387

listermint wrote: »

This is what insurance is for, Your mother may have to pay some money depending on policy some insurers expect you to pay a portion of the claim up to for example 200 / 400 / 800 depending on what policy they signed up under. and the insurance company handles the rest.

The fact is your mothers car damaged another car, that is unfortunately not in dispute here. I suggest that the quotes for work are examined you could insist on a second or third quote. But it sounds like it maybe in the realms of 100-300.

Not mother's car. She was a passenger (it's in the first line of the second para).
So is the owner of the car liable?
It's similar to the passenger opening a door onto the street and casuing damage. Car owner is liable I would guess. I don't see how it can affect your mother.

To Elland Back

I'll make the assumption your mother was in the passenger seat of her own vehicle.

Bottom line is she was liable for the damage, strong wind or not. The 3rd party is entitled to get their vehicle fixed at a garage of their choosing and it appears that her insurers have verified the estimate. There is no policy excess for 3rd party claims. Without bonus protection, repaying the outlay is the only way to stop a premium increase

Colemania

goldenhoarde wrote: »

Who's car was she in, her own or a third party?

Are they trying to claim of a policy on another car/home?

What's the excess on the policy in question?

Did you mother admit liability on the day and agree to repair the car?

Ok to answer these in order.

She was in her own car, my dad was driving.

Just trying to claim on that cars policy.

Don't know what the excess is, maybe 400-500.

She never agreed to repair the car and as mentioned, she informed the claimant and guard that the door swung open due to the wind and hit the car but stated no damage was caused, therefore nothing to repair. Is that admitting liability? Perhaps

cml387

Colemania wrote: »

Ok to answer these in order.

She was in her own car, my dad was driving.

Just trying to claim on that cars policy.

Don't know what the excess is, maybe 400-500.

She never agreed to repair the car and as mentioned, she informed the claimant and guard that the door swung open due to the wind and hit the car but stated no damage was caused, therefore nothing to repair. Is that admitting liability? Perhaps

Slightly clearer.
Basically there's no doubt about what happened. What's in dispute is the amount of damage.
Leave it to the insurers.
Unfortunately claiming that the wind blew it and it's not your mother's fault doesn't diminish the fact that damage was casued (the amount is in doubt) to someone else's car.

Colemania

To Elland Back wrote: »

I'll make the assumption your mother was in the passenger seat of her own vehicle.

Bottom line is she was liable for the damage, strong wind or not. The 3rd party is entitled to get their vehicle fixed at a garage of their choosing and it appears that her insurers have verified the estimate. There is no policy excess for 3rd party claims. Without bonus protection, repaying the outlay is the only way to stop a premium increase

To be honest, if the supposed damage was 100-200 euro, she'd probably pay it to prevent it from dragging on and so her insurance won't increase but 700 euro for a non existent scratch is madness! My dad recently had a large dent on the car repaired, which had been caused by the bull bars of a jeep hitting into it, and it only cost 250.

goldenhoarde

Colemania wrote: »

Ok to answer these in order.

She was in her own car, my dad was driving.

Just trying to claim on that cars policy.

Don't know what the excess is, maybe 400-500.

She never agreed to repair the car and as mentioned, she informed the claimant and guard that the door swung open due to the wind and hit the car but stated no damage was caused, therefore nothing to repair. Is that admitting liability? Perhaps

Okay then the policy on the car is liable as she admitted that the door of the car hit the other one. That to the insurance company is admitting liability. The insurance company sent out an assessor who deemed there to be damage so they have paid out and now are recouping of you or you can have it paid via the insurance. However this 700 may be the excess for any claim! The person who's car was hit is entitled to have their car repaired and put back as new.

Probably would have been cheaper to get a garage yourself to repair it but generally insurance pay top dollar

goldenhoarde

A few years ago a van reserved at low speed into our car Didn't look like there was much damage - couple of hundred both parties though - Assessor priced it at 2,500 as there was damage under the hood.

A small scratch could mean the whole door or panel needs to be resprayed plus a panel beater to remove any dent

Peregrinus

Did your mother send to the insurer her own photographs showing that there was no damage to the other driver's car?

listermint

The Owner of the car is liable. She can either pay the damage (which i presume is what the owner is trying to get her to do) or the owner can claim on their insurance which is what insurance is for.

The owner may see things differently though, but thats irrelevant.

To Elland Back

There will be no excess for a payment to a 3rd party only

_Brian

The big question is how many years experience your mother has as an insurance assessor or panel beater ??

Otherwise how can she seem there was no damage done ??

Even a small mark on a door panel can be very costly to repair and repaint.

She either pays up or uses insurance and be more careful next time it's windy.

I really hate the way people damage cars with door due to lack of care and attention, and it's not always kids either.

Colemania

If she could have had it fixed it a garage herself, she would have no doubt! They just didn't give her that option. Communication throughout was very poor. I don't see what the claimant has to gain from this. If he had settled it in an amicable manner with my mother, it would have been finished in a week. I don't meant to discriminate but I wouldn't expect less from the claimant in question....

Colemania

_Brian wrote: »

The big question is how many years experience your mother has as an insurance assessor or panel beater ??

Otherwise how can she seem there was no damage done ??

Even a small mark on a door panel can be very costly to repair and repaint.

She either pays up or uses insurance and be more careful next time it's windy.

I really hate the way people damage cars with door due to lack of care and attention, and it's not always kids either.

I have loads of scratches and tiny dents on my car from kids, people opening their door on to mine, and just general scratches so I should have opened a few claims of my own in that case, but I'm not that petty.

I'll always regret not claiming for when i was hit while parked one day after only buying the car a week previous. Didn't realise the scale of the damage until I got home. To me it's just a few scratches but if it was to go to an insurance claim, the whole bumper would have to be replaced to return it to its previous condition.

To Elland Back

Colemania wrote: »

If she could have had it fixed it a garage herself, she would have no doubt! They just didn't give her that option.

That is never an option that the person who caused the damage has a right to. The injured party goes to a garage of their choosing, end of.

Arbiter of Good Taste

Colemania wrote: »

If she could have had it fixed it a garage herself, she would have no doubt! They just didn't give her that option. Communication throughout was very poor. I don't see what the claimant has to gain from this. If he had settled it in an amicable manner with my mother, it would have been finished in a week. I don't meant to discriminate but I wouldn't expect less from the claimant in question....

Yes, communication was poor - on your mother's side. Your mother should have gotten in touch with the other side to see whether they would be willing to compromise in terms of where the repair was done.

Same thing happened to me about nine years ago. A neighbour swung open his car door into my split new car. Tiniest of scratches - but my garage assessed it at €1000 of damage. I was willing to split the cost, but the neighbour was being an idiot. Ended up in court and he had to write me a cheque for €1,500 plus cover his own costs. Go figure.

challengemaster

Colemania wrote: »

I have loads of scratches and tiny dents on my car from kids, people opening their door on to mine, and just general scratches so I should have opened a few claims of my own in that case, but I'm not that petty.

Just because you don't care about your own vehicle, doesn't mean everyone has the same feelings.

Colemania

challengemaster wrote: »

Just because you don't care about your own vehicle, doesn't mean everyone has the same feelings.

Of course i care about my car! I'm just saying in the scale of things, I wouldn't be claiming off anyone for the scratches on my car as they're so minute.

Colemania

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

Yes, communication was poor - on your mother's side. Your mother should have gotten in touch with the other side to see whether they would be willing to compromise in terms of where the repair was done.

I'm sorry but she was told by the guards that there was no damage done and not to worry. When she was informed about the engineer's report, she called the claims guy on the case and could never get through to him. She requested at least 3 callbacks and the first time she heard from him was to inform her of the claim amount AFTER the car was fixed. Everything she did was by the book. On the other side, it was dealt with very poorly

nuac

While Gárdaí are not motor assessors, they are experienced at inspecting damage to vehicles.

This looks like an inflated trumped up claim.

Your mother should get written confirmation from the Gárda, and send it her own insurers together with her own photographs and her own statement.

Insurers often compromise relatively small claims rather than go to the expense of defending them. As a NCB is at risk your mother should request that they deny liability

ohnonotgmail

nuac wrote: »

While Gárdaí are not motor assessors, they are experienced at inspecting damage to vehicles.

This looks like an inflated trumped up claim.

Your mother should get written confirmation from the Gárda, and send it her own insurers together with her own photographs and her own statement.

Insurers often compromise relatively small claims rather than go to the expense of defending them. As a NCB is at risk your mother should request that they deny liability

with respect to gardai they are not experts in estimating repair costs. that isnt their job. If the assessor has confirmed the damage then the OPs mother is on the line for the cost of the repairs. Unless she wants to fight it in court of course. but she would be only fighting on the amount of damages not liability.

Colemania

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

with respect to gardai they are not experts in estimating repair costs. that isnt their job. If the assessor has confirmed the damage then the OPs mother is on the line for the cost of the repairs. Unless she wants to fight it in court of course. but she would be only fighting on the amount of damages not liability.

Yes it's going to boil down to disputing damages rather than liability at this stage as many posters have mentioned, regardless of the wind effect, it is her fault for not opening the door more carefully.

gctest50

Colemania wrote: »

I'm sorry but she was told by the guards that there was no damage done and not to worry.

they were just calming her down on the day - the car was gone no ?

Colemania wrote: »

The guards were called but after waiting half an hour, the other guy left to collect his kids and my mother continued to wait.

Colemania wrote: »

When she was informed about the engineer's report, she called the claims guy on the case and ...........

game over probably - pay up or leave the insurance do what they are paid to do

unless you want to get another engineer and so on and so on

whippet

It's amazing how many people are experts on the cost of repairs!

I had a car tip off the side of mine and what looked like a small scrap turned out to be almost 2.5k worth of damage to the two doors etc.

If the panel was bent back and popped back out after the impact there will more than likelihood be damage somewhere which isn't obvious to your mother / father and

Arbiter of Good Taste

nuac wrote: »

While Gárdaí are not motor assessors, they are experienced at inspecting damage to vehicles.

This looks like an inflated trumped up claim.

Your mother should get written confirmation from the Gárda, and send it her own insurers together with her own photographs and her own statement.

Insurers often compromise relatively small claims rather than go to the expense of defending them. As a NCB is at risk your mother should request that they deny liability

Have you ever had damage done to a car? It cost me €1k - actually €1.1k if I recall correctly, to repair what look like a slight nick on the door. Gardai are not engineers or mechanics.

MarkAnthony

Colemania wrote: »

So basically what happened was my mother was a passenger in a car which was parked. She opened her door to get out and as it was very windy, the wind blew the car door open which hit the car next to it. The owner of the car was sitting in the car at the time (what are the chances)

So, if there was no one in the car she'd have just jogged on? Sounds like she's getting what she deserves to a certain extent.

It's all relative, I put a very small dent in a new 3 series BMW, €900 later it was fixed, it all depends on the car, is it leased etc.

If you're too close to another car in the wind ask the driver nicely to repark. If not and you do damage (wo)man up and pay it. You're bothering legal aid with this nonsense?

Colemania

MarkAnthony wrote: »

So, if there was no one in the car she'd have just jogged on? Sounds like she's getting what she deserves to a certain extent.

It's all relative, I put a very small dent in a new 3 series BMW, €900 later it was fixed, it all depends on the car, is it leased etc.

If you're too close to another car in the wind ask the driver nicely to repark. If not and you do damage (wo)man up and pay it. You're bothering legal aid with this nonsense?

Didn't expect so many hostile responses on this! So you're saying if your car door blew open and hit a car with nobody inside, you'd stay there to inform the driver when they return that you hit their car even there's no damage? Give me a break! It probably happens your car and my car in car parks every week and we don't notice as there's no visible damage.

Note to the mods: please close the thread as I've gotten all the information I need and it risks turning even more hostile....

Dial Hard

Colemania wrote:

Didn't expect so many hostile responses on this! So you're saying if your car door blew open and hit a car with nobody inside, you'd stay there to inform the driver when they return that you hit their car even there's no damage? Give me a break!.

I dinged an empty car in a car park and left a note under the windscreen with my details. You never know when the same thing might happen to you and then you'll be hoping it was someone with a bit of common decency.

MarkAnthony

Colemania wrote: »

Didn't expect so many hostile responses on this! So you're saying if your car door blew open and hit a car with nobody inside, you'd stay there to inform the driver when they return that you hit their car even there's no damage? Give me a break! It probably happens your car and my car in car parks every week and we don't notice as there's no visible damage.

Note to the mods: please close the thread as I've gotten all the information I need and it risks turning even more hostile....

I'd leave a note, also we've only your side of the story there was no damage. It's very easy to not see a dent that doesn't break the paint until you're in the right light.

Although I'd park well away from other cars on a windy day or tell the passenger to get out before I parked.

As for a hostile reply - what did you expect when you make the above implication? Many of us have had eejits damage our property and just jog on, a bit of honesty goes along way. To add gumming up legal aid with his sort of nonsense just added to the annoyance I'm afraid.

Pat Mustard

Thread closed at user request.