Paternity Leave

Toplink

Did I read something recently about the fact that paternity leave might be increased to 2 weeks. Currently all I get is 2 days.

Seems like a bit of a pipedream, can anyone confirm?

seamus

There's a parental leave bill that's been sitting in committee stage since 2014. This bill allows for the standard 18 weeks maternity leave to be shared between mothers and fathers (but not at the same time).

But separately there have been rumblings since the start of this year about two weeks paternity leave for fathers. Chances are they'll scrap the above bill (which is actually still crap by EU standards), and announce paternity leave in the budget speech next Tuesday.

lazygal

Paternity leave is up to an employer to grant at the moment. I wouldn't plan for the immediate future just yet. You can take parental leave, which is unpaid, but it is up to the employer as to how it is used.

tHE vAGGABOND

Yes, be shocked if something in this area was not done in budget next week - they want to buy votes with this budget, and this is one thing that would affect many folks over whole country from all backgrounds,,,

Cabaal

Budget announced two weeks paternity leave which comes into affect in September 2016,

tHE vAGGABOND

So it comes into effect in 12 months, after an election, and before a new government is formed..

They may as well promise a free little green man from mars for every new parent, to help clean the house and do all the cooking

Orion

Cabaal wrote: »

Budget announced two weeks paternity leave which comes into affect in September 2016,

Correction: Budget announced an intent to publish legislation for two weeks paid paternity leave from next September.

Easy to announce that when an election is looming and no time between now and then to get this through all stages unless they guillotine it which is unlikely.

Cabaal

tHE vAGGABOND wrote: »

So it comes into effect in 12 months, after an election, and before a new government is formed..

They may as well promise a free little green man from mars for every new parent, to help clean the house and do all the cooking

Very true,
As we know its very possible if the gov gets reselected or if FF or SF or whoever get into power they very well could scrap the whole thing.

Still if it happens its a start, personally I'd like to see the ability for a couple to split maternity leave if they so wished. Not all women want to stay home for 6 months and in some instances the women might be the main income in the house so its good to have a choice.

The upshot is it actually equals the employment playing field for women, while some employers will opt for men over women because of maternity leave requirements (yes they won't admit it, but it happens). If men can take leave as well/instead then it lessons the bias and levels the employment playing field for women.

Cabaal

Orion wrote: »

Correction: Budget announced an intent to publish legislation for two weeks paid paternity leave from next September.

Easy to announce that when an election is looming and no time between now and then to get this through all stages unless they guillotine it which is unlikely.

Oh crap so, wasn't aware of that.

Right so, we "might" have it by 2030 in that case

Sunny Dayz

tHE vAGGABOND wrote: »

They may as well promise a free little green man from mars for every new parent, to help clean the house and do all the cooking

TBH that would be far more helpful to all parents than 2 weeks paternal leave...

pwurple

I think it does need a lead in, if only so employers can reword their maternity policy to include paternity policy.

But yeah, step in the right direction, long way to go.

tHE vAGGABOND

Details will be interesting - so I work in IT and already have two weeks [and will be taking them in around a month [:o] - but for those like me on good salaries, interesting to see the details? Does my employer get the full wack of salary from government or wha?

baldbear

So do babies have to be born from September or what's the craic? If a baby is due in August can the father take his paternity level when the Mrs goes back to work around Jan 2017?

pwurple

tHE vAGGABOND wrote: »

Details will be interesting - so I work in IT and already have two weeks [and will be taking them in around a month [:o] - but for those like me on good salaries, interesting to see the details? Does my employer get the full wack of salary from government or wha?

No, "paid" means the govt maternity pay, which is 230 taxable euro. Not anywhere near your salary I imagine.

What happens for maternity where the employer covers the leave, is that the govt pays the employer the 230, and the employer pays the rest.

Where the employer doesn't cover salary, the employee gets the 230 from social welfare.

Lucuma

pwurple wrote: »

No, "paid" means the govt maternity pay, which is 230 taxable euro. Not anywhere near your salary I imagine.

What happens for maternity where the employer covers the leave, is that the govt pays the employer the 230, and the employer pays the rest.

Where the employer doesn't cover salary, the employee gets the 230 from social welfare.

Yeah so it'll be interesting IF it does in fact come in to see if the companys which currently top up the statutory mat pay to full salary will also adopt the policy of topping up the paternity pay to full salary for 2 weeks?

Also I was wondering - ok the Dad can get 230 euro per week for 2 weeks but is his company obliged to give him the 2 weeks off and not deduct it from his holidays? Coz that's as big an issue as whether he gets full pay for 2 weeks or not? Haven't seen that mentioned anywhere

lollpop

It's statutory leave so yes employers will be obliged to grant it - same as maternity leave. As it can be taken any time before 26 weeks, it's not clear if the employer can have a say in when exactly it's taken. It's also not clear if it can be broken up (e.g. taken as 2 separate weeks rather than 2 weeks together) but i'd imagine it can't.

pwurple

Lucuma wrote: »

Yeah so it'll be interesting IF it does in fact come in to see if the companys which currently top up the statutory mat pay to full salary will also adopt the policy of topping up the paternity pay to full salary for 2 weeks?

Also I was wondering - ok the Dad can get 230 euro per week for 2 weeks but is his company obliged to give him the 2 weeks off and not deduct it from his holidays? Coz that's as big an issue as whether he gets full pay for 2 weeks or not? Haven't seen that mentioned anywhere

I would imagine Paternity leave would be set up the same as Maternity Leave and Adoptive leave. The current ones are both 'protected' leave. Which means they do not come out of your holidays. In fact you still continue to accrue holidays during that time. So, if there was a bank holiday during your time off, you add that onto the end.

part time punk

As others have said a small step in the right direction and details on this are very sketchy. TBH I doubt there's much more anyone knows on this. D/Finance will have to focus on the big tax measures etc.

But am I right in thinking it's paternity leave so it's only for new babies born after whenever the bill becomes law. I.e. it's no good to me if I don't plan on having any more kids.

Sorry if answered above, I only scanned the thread here in work. Thanks

Cabaal

I'm expecting small firms etc to object to this proposal as time goes on,

pwurple

Cabaal wrote: »

I'm expecting small firms etc to object to this proposal as time goes on,

If they do I would taking that as an opportunity to study their hiring record. I know a particular small firm who doesn't hire women at all, just in case the employee ever went out on mat leave.

LegacyUser

pwurple wrote: »

If they do I would taking that as an opportunity to study their hiring record. I know a particular small firm who doesn't hire women at all, just in case the employee ever went out on mat leave.

At the end of the day, if any firm is short-sighted enough to do that, it's their loss.They cut themselves off from a huge chunk of the employee market.I understand companies have to make money to survive but equally, any good business accepts that humans reproduce, and has a system in place to deal with it.

Paternity leave is long overdue but will come late for us this time round :-)....wondering could I use it to persuade OH to try for number 3 ;-)

murphyaii

first we got the parenting grant removed from our wages and basically handed over to women.
ireland is the last place in europe where fathers rights are basically non-existent.
apart from the more recent family law bill.
it is way overdue the paternal leave as women get leave so why shouldn't fathers i ask?

Pawwed Rig

I can see maternity hospitals being very quiet in July and August of 2016 followed by a mini baby boom.

tickingclock

I'm still confused!! I've a baby born in January 2014. I'm hoping to send her to school in September 2018. She will be 4 years 8 months. Do I benefit from the extra year?

Lucuma

tickingclock wrote: »

I'm still confused!! I've a baby born in January 2014. I'm hoping to send her to school in September 2018. She will be 4 years 8 months. Do I benefit from the extra year?

Clearly you are confused as you're posting in the paternity leave thread

seamus

Cabaal wrote: »

I'm expecting small firms etc to object to this proposal as time goes on,

They'll grumble, but the cost to them will be small. It's two weeks, and they won't have to pay the employee. So it'll certainly be inconvenient, but it'll be sporadic. There'll also be informal expectations of the employee. Where woman goes out for maternity leave, cover is arranged, and you're basically a non-employee for six months. People know you're gone and have other arrangements in your absence.

But where you're out for two weeks, they won't arrange cover for your absence and although nobody will be allowed say it, it would be expected that you'd be available if anything really important came up. In much the same way it is when you go on a week's holiday.

tickingclock wrote: »

I'm still confused!! I've a baby born in January 2014. I'm hoping to send her to school in September 2018. She will be 4 years 8 months. Do I benefit from the extra year?

Wrong thread, but I'll answer it anyway
She'll be 3y8m in September 2017, so she'll be eligible for the ECCE scheme from that date until July 2019. So you can avail of two full years (Sept 2017 & Sept 2018) of the ECCE scheme and send her to school in Sept 2019 if you wish.

tickingclock

So sorry was half asleep or possibly fully asleep! It was meant for the other thread on this topic. Thanks for clarifying. Apologies again

Lucuma

seamus wrote: »

Wrong thread, but I'll answer it anyway
She'll be 3y8m in September 2017, so she'll be eligible for the ECCE scheme from that date until July 2019. So you can avail of two full years (Sept 2017 & Sept 2018) of the ECCE scheme and send her to school in Sept 2019 if you wish.

Why can't she send the child to preschool in Jan 2017 as soon as the child turns 3 and get a half year preschool, then a full year the following year, then send the child to school on her original intended date of Sept 2018?

seamus

Lucuma wrote: »

Why can't she send the child to preschool in Jan 2017 as soon as the child turns 3 and get a half year preschool, then a full year the following year, then send the child to school on her original intended date of Sept 2018?

Aha, you're right. I thought you had to enroll in September.

rekcaks

Bringing up an old thread here- Is there any more info on this? My wife is due to give birth in May and i was wondering if i was eligible for this leave?

I read somewhere it can be taken within 23 weeks of the birth. Is it retrospective?

seamus

This is the most recent article on it:
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/paternity-leave-legislation-to-be-fast-tracked-in-family-leave-bill-1.2583636

In short, the draft legislation has yet to be published, so it's impossible to say what exactly will be in it.

It's unlikely to be retrospective in scope, it's rare that laws are. It will also have requirements for minimum notice that an employer is entitled to before taking paternity leave, so even if you did just about qualify in September, you might be outside the minimum notice period.

Orion

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/leave_and_holidays/paternity_leave.html

Budget 2016: It was announced that statutory paternity leave of 2 weeks is to be introduced, together with a new Paternity Benefit, in respect of births from September 2016.

So no you won't be able to take the 2 weeks paternity leave but you are entitled to parental leave which is unpaid but can be taken up until the child is 8.

[edit]seamus is right - paternity leave isn't enacted yet

rekcaks

Bugger! Bad family planning!

chin nuts

Tell me about it, misses is due 24th August.

Markx

Are people taking it as a given that this will be in? Trying to plan annual leave for the year and would be nice to know if I can count on this entitlement or not......due early October

Meauldsegosha

Markx wrote: »

Are people taking it as a given that this will be in? Trying to plan annual leave for the year and would be nice to know if I can count on this entitlement or not......due early October

They can't even form a Government at the moment. If we don't have a second election it's unlikely this legislation will be a priority for a minority Government.

Markx

Meauldsegosha wrote: »

They can't even form a Government at the moment. If we don't have a second election it's unlikely this legislation will be a priority for a minority Government.

I'm aware of the technicalities of the situation, more wondering if anybody's HR dept has tacitly or otherwise indicated that they would be going along with it in Sept.

Pawwed Rig

Markx wrote: »

I'm aware of the technicalities of the situation, more wondering if anybody's HR dept has tacitly or otherwise indicated that they would be going along with it in Sept.

Mine responded that they will abide by legislation but they won't be paying paternity leave.

Markx

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Mine responded that they will abide by legislation but they won't be paying paternity leave.

Thanks - I guess that's a reasonable enough line to take.

Pawwed Rig

To be fair they don't pay maternity either so not discriminating as such

SEANoftheDEAD

I've a child due early October and am trying to sort time off with the job... What is the current law and is the 2 week thing in yet??

Moonbeam

No, it is still 0 days entitlement.

SEANoftheDEAD

Moonbeam wrote: »

No, it is still 0 days entitlement.

Thanks for the update.

It's very disappointing that in 2016, Ireland still has mindset from the last century regarding this.

Beanybabog

I'm hoping my husbands company pays. My own job doesn't pay maternity pay but his does, so I'm hoping they pay the paternity as well.

I'm really hoping it comes in! Due 26.11 - hoping the two weeks plus annual leave will gets us up to and over Christmas

Pawwed Rig

If they pay maternity and then don't pay paternity they are leaving themselves wide open for a discrimination claim unless it is allowed for in the legislation.

Beanybabog

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

If they pay maternity and then don't pay paternity they are leaving themselves wide open for a discrimination claim unless it is allowed for in the legislation.

That's what I figured. Now I hope it comes in!

Pawwed Rig

Beanybabog wrote: »

That's what I figured. Now I hope it comes in!

They have gone very quiet about it. When you look at the time that was wasted post election and the upcoming summer hols I wouldn't be surprised if this was delayed. They rarely achieve any targets they set for these kinds of issues as there are so many vested interests wanting to give their 2 cents.

Cabaal

One good thing out of the recent mention by the gov, company I worked for has rolled out 6 weeks paid paternity leave recently. Previously it was like 1 week.

Skittlebrau

I emailed my local TD about this who forwarded the query on to Leo.

Apparently it's the priority piece of legisation for his dept. and still on track to be in place by Sept.

The way these things go though.. that could change very quickly.

Moonbeam

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/set-to-be-a-new-dad-youll-be-benefiting-from-the-new-paid-paternity-leave-bill-34814805.html

Spook80

This is great. We're due October so sooner I see it officially signed in the better.