Employee warning?

Lau2976

Hope this is an appropriate forum for this!

I have a student working for me at the moment and all has been going well but I recently discovered that a friend came to the premises on an evening in which she was working and I was not present and that said friend locked the door and put up a closed sign while someone was on the premises shopping. She speaks to them and they leave, the customer who often buys from me, contacted me about this and how upset they were. I've reviewed the security footage and it looks like the employee heads to the back to get something and that's when her friend does it. The customer leaves before she returns. They don't reopen the permises and stay until she was meant to actually close up.

Im not really sure what to do in this instance. Should it be a formal warning? Something like a chat? It's the first issue we've had but I'm starting to wonder If that is just because I'm usually present! I have that I warn her about anything previously and I'm not sure how hard to come down on her on this. I want her to know it isn't acceptable.

Any guidance would really help as I'm torn on what do to her. Or a suggestion as to something else that I could do instead?

PM me nudes

Sackable offence imo.
She put the reputation of the business and a valued customers custom at risk to have a chat with her friend. Inexcusable.

Chemical Byrne

is she working for you less than six months? If so you're within your rights to give her a (figurative) boot up the hole out the door with no formal procedures.
That's what I'd do. Either that or dock her the average takings for that particular weekday for period they closed up early.
I'd be doing the former, that is simply unacceptable. At the very least I think you should shout at her.

Less than 6 months (or is it a yr), you can sack anyone for any reason (except the holy 9 discrimination categories). You can decide you don't like someone's hairstyle, their shoes or the way they looked at you and turf them out on the street.

dreamers75

Have an investigation chat, ensure she has a copy of your discplinary procedure (doing the above as that would cost you about 5k).

Review the details from the investigation, then make your decision based on that and that alone. If you dont have a disciplinary procedure and you sack her, she will claim and will win.

Doing what either of the 2 above mentioned will cost you minimum 5k....and you will be on this website in the near future. https://www.workplacerelations.ie/en/Cases/2015/August/

Lau2976

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

is she working for you less than six months? If so you're within your rights to give her a (figurative) boot up the hole out the door. That's what I'd do. Either that or dock her the average takings for that particular weekday for period they closed up early.
I'd be doing the former, that is simply unacceptable.

Yeah she started working late July. Thanks for the advice.

Lau2976

dreamers75 wrote: »

Have an investigation chat, ensure she has a copy of your discplinary procedure (doing the above as that would cost you about 5k).

Review the details from the investigation, then make your decision based on that and that alone. If you dont have a disciplinary procedure and you sack her, she will claim and will win.

Doing what either of the 2 above mentioned will cost you minimum 5k....and you will be on this website in the near future. https://www.workplacerelations.ie/en/Cases/2015/August/

Thanks for the link!

stoneill

Who locked the door - the employee or your friend?

Lau2976

stoneill wrote: »

Who locked the door - the employee or your friend?

Her friend.

Chemical Byrne

Lau2976 wrote: »

Yeah she started working late July. Thanks for the advice.

In that case OP:

Penny Tration

Lau2976 wrote: »

Yeah she started working late July. Thanks for the advice. It's nice to know where I stand too with other options!

If she started working in late July, you can sack her once it's not under the nine discrimination grounds (which it's not).

If she's there less than 13 weeks, you can sack her for no reason, with no notice period - unless you gave her more rights in her contract!

Ashbx

As its a first instance, I personally would give her a verbal warning but not necessarily count it as a formal warning. Did she know her friend closed the door? If not, I definitely wouldn't go too hard on her but I would definitely pull her aside and tell her you saw it all on cctv, that a customer complained about it and tell her outright that its unacceptable. Hopefully the verbal warning itself would be enough - I know it would if it was me and my boss.

I would make it clear that just because you are not in the premises does not mean you don't know whats going on. Even exaggerate a bit and tell her you have access to the CCTV at home so you could be watching at home for all she knows. Don't let her get away with it anyway because she will probably take advantage then but I wouldn't go as far as giving her a formal warning right from the start.

Best of luck!

Chemical Byrne

OP, why don't you just sack her. She's only in the door and is taking the piss already! Get rid of her pronto.

What sort of shop is it?

Ashbx

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

OP, why don't you just sack her. She's only in the door and is taking the piss already! Get rid of her pronto.

What sort of shop is it?

You could also look at it that she's only in the door 2 months and the business owner is trusting her to close the shop already!? Surely the owner should be taking some responsibility too! Plus she's a student. I don't know how old but if it was my shop, I would be making sure I can trust the person who is left to look after it alone.

Obviously this staff member couldn't be trusted.

OP its your call but I don't think approaching this all guns blazing is the best approach.

seamus

Forget about docking pay or anything like that, it's just asking for trouble.

Tell them exactly what you have said above - a good customer complained, you reviewed the footage and saw that her "mate" closed the shop early.

Unless she has a really really good excuse, pay her outstanding wages (bring them and her P45 with you to save you the hassle) and tell her to leave.

Until a year has passed, she has basically no recourse for being fired.

Lau2976

The girl is 21 and isn't usually left alone as there's me and another full time member of staff. This situation was sadly the one time one of us hasn't been there which is why I'm worried that it wouldn't be an isolated situation.

I sell my art and also run a printing service for other artists. This customer buys a lot of my art work.

Calhoun

Lau2976 wrote: »

The girl is 21 and isn't usually left alone as there's me and another full time member of staff. This situation was sadly the one time one of us hasn't been there which is why I'm worried that it wouldn't be an isolated situation.

I sell my art and also run a printing service for other artists. This customer buys a lot of my art work.

Your not just running a clothes shop or a retail type store which would have a varied turnover of customers.

Your in a niche area that doesn't quite appeal to the masses and the services/product you offer come with an expectation of service level and professionalism from employees.

Hard to decide on what to do but what ever you do make sure you review training for new hires in the future so they know what you expect.

Mr.Carter

FFS....no need to go Rambo on the issue, have a small chat and move on....everyone has to learn from mistakes.
Some shower of "Hitlers" on here

Did she know what this friend did?

LegacyUser

You have actually already breached data protection laws by viewing the CCTV footage.

CCTV can only be used against staff when A, Its clearly outlined to the staff in advance that it can and the reasons why and
B, Its being used based on prior events or reasonable foresight ie watching the till due to concerns for staff thefts.

Your situation is not a reasonable circumstance nor would I assume based on this thread that you have forewarned your staff.

see: https://www.dataprotection.ie/docs/Case-Studies-2008/732.htm#6

Clearlier

Lau2976 wrote: »

Hope this is an appropriate forum for this!

I have a student working for me at the moment and all has been going well but I recently discovered that a friend came to the premises on an evening in which she was working and I was not present and that said friend locked the door and put up a closed sign while someone was on the premises shopping. She speaks to them and they leave, the customer who often buys from me, contacted me about this and how upset they were. I've reviewed the security footage and it looks like the employee heads to the back to get something and that's when her friend does it. The customer leaves before she returns. They don't reopen the permises and stay until she was meant to actually close up.

Im not really sure what to do in this instance. Should it be a formal warning? Something like a chat? It's the first issue we've had but I'm starting to wonder If that is just because I'm usually present! I have that I warn her about anything previously and I'm not sure how hard to come down on her on this. I want her to know it isn't acceptable.

Any guidance would really help as I'm torn on what do to her. Or a suggestion as to something else that I could do instead?

It sounds from your description like your employee was and probably still is unaware of what happened. Her 'friend' has behaved awfully here and certainly merits being refused entry on a permanent basis.

It might be worth imagining a scenario where the friend was your friend rather than hers and consider what you would do then.

Chemical Byrne

Perhaps you could demand that the takings that you would have got while closed are recouped from the friend?

Mrs OBumble

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

Perhaps you could demand that the takings that you would have got while closed are recouped from the friend?

Oh ffs! Would you ever spend about three seconds imagining how the advice would go if them employee came on here, told how things happened (including that some detailed about the "friend" - goodness only knows what the story, is but real friends don't try to get you fired) and said that she'd got sacked or the manager was garnishing hundreds from her wages.

You'd be the first to be posting about what a nasty piece the manager is, and how the ex employee should be aiming to get back at them.



OP - if she's worth keeping (subject area knowledge, sales skills, presentation, contacts she might have), then she needs some re-training about your expectations. If she's not, then you need to consider your induction for part-time workers a bit harder. Your call about what to do - you do have termination options, but art's a small world, do think about who you might annoy if you fire.

Calhoun

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

Perhaps you could demand that the takings that you would have got while closed are recouped from the friend?

Not sure if that would work to be honest and would assume it would be hard to do much legally on it .

uck51js9zml2yt

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Oh ffs! Would you ever spend about three seconds imagining how the advice would go if them employee came on here, told how things happened (including that some detailed about the "friend" - goodness only knows what the story, is but real friends don't try to get you fired) and said that she'd got sacked or the manager was garnishing hundreds from her wages.

You'd be the first to be posting about what a nasty piece the manager is, and how the ex employee should be aiming to get back at them.



OP - if she's worth keeping (subject area knowledge, sales skills, presentation, contacts she might have), then she needs some re-training about your expectations. If she's not, then you need to consider your induction for part-time workers a bit harder. Your call about what to do - you do have termination options, but art's a small world, do think about who you might annoy if you fire.

Have to agree with Mrs O. Is she worth keeping?
What's she been like the last few months.

If she's worth keeping. Have a chat, let her do the talkng, so open questions!
Based on her response make a decision. You can retrain her, sack her or extend her probation period when the time comes.
Whatever you do put a verbal warning on her file and ban the friend.

Galwayguy35

Mr.Carter wrote: »

FFS....no need to go Rambo on the issue, have a small chat and move on....everyone has to learn from mistakes.
Some shower of "Hitlers" on here

It wasn't a mistake, they left the door locked and she basically did no work until it was clocking off time.

Wasters like that don't deserve a job, give the position to someone who will appreciate the work.

bikermartin

Jobs are so hard to be got this behaviour is unacceptable. Loads of people that can be trusted out there. This employee can not. I would let her go.

C.K Dexter Haven

I think it would be worth deciding based on your experience of her to date. if you've found her a conscientious worker to date and you think she's good for your business, then a very clear, frank discussion maybe all that's required, outlining that her behaviour is not acceptable, and also explain the impact it has had on your customer, and business.

I think depending on her reaction and response, I'd then make my decision. If she's defensive and dismissive, then I think parting is the best approach. If she appears apologetic (genuinely) and looks like she has learnt something from the experience AND you think she's good for your business, then I'd consider keeping her on.

I think the best test is- would you trust her in the future? If ultimately, the answer is only "maybe", then there's your answer.

Bicycle

seamus wrote: »

Forget about docking pay or anything like that, it's just asking for trouble.

Tell them exactly what you have said above - a good customer complained, you reviewed the footage and saw that her "mate" closed the shop early.

Unless she has a really really good excuse, pay her outstanding wages (bring them and her P45 with you to save you the hassle) and tell her to leave.

Until a year has passed, she has basically no recourse for being fired.

The Year is not a real year.

• Its 365 days e.g. it runs from the 1st October 2014 to the 30th September 2015.
• It must include any holidays not taken
• It must include any notice period

So really the "year" when you have the opportunity to dismiss someone without them having the opportunity to take a case of Unfair Dismissal against you is really best treated as 11 months.

nadroir

Just talk to her. These days people get so caught up in sides and forgot to talk. A good chat to explain your worries and you may turn her into best employee you ever had. She can't learn if not told her mistakes. If not then your can fire her with good reason and clear conscience. Would people have kids kicked out of school cause got homework wrong?

davo10

If your employee is contracted to work certain hours, she neglected her duty by closing early thereby potentially impacting your business. Allowing a non employee to interact with a customer on your behalf is another breach of duty.

Unfortunately in this cases your employee's poor judgement and. dereliction of duty is hard to overcome and though it is a hard lesson to learn, termination of employment is the appropriate action.

To the earlier poster who said viewing the camera is a breach of employee rights, only if the employee had not been made aware that cctv is present and only if it is present to record what the employee does. In this case the camera would seem to have been directed toward the door so it is a security device .

davo10

If your employee is contracted to work certain hours, she neglected her duty by closing early thereby potentially impacting your business. Allowing a non employee to interact with a customer on your behalf is another breach of duty.

Unfortunately in this cases your employee's poor judgement and. dereliction of duty is hard to overcome and though it is a hard lesson to learn, termination of employment is the appropriate action.

To the earlier poster who said viewing the camera is a breach of employee rights, only if the employee had not been made aware that cctv is present and only if it is present to record what the employee does. In this case the camera would seem to have been directed toward the door so it is a security device .