Is appealing the driving test decision worth it?

my3cents

fin12 wrote: »

Hey that's the same man I'm talking about it, he's actually failed it now 12 or 13 times. Its a joke, I think they shouldn't be allowed fail anyone after 10 times. Nobody really drives the way they do when they are doing the driving test, I dont anyway. Its a money racket with them.

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I'd put money on the fact he never took any lessons between the tests because he was such an experienced driver :rolleyes:

OP when was the last time you took a driving lesson?

SillyBeans

fin12 wrote: »

Well can you explain so how somebody can be driving for the past 40 years, never had an accident and yet has failed the test 13 times. Clearly there's something wrong there?? Do you not agree that most people drive different than they normally do on their driving test?

Maybe they've never been in an accident because they're just very lucky. Maybe there has been a lot of close calls that perhaps the person isn't aware of. Not having an accident doesn't mean you're safe. I know plenty of awful drivers who have never been in an accident. I also know plenty of great drivers who have been.

I do agree that most people drive differently to how they do during a driving test. That's not really the issue though. There has to be some sort of test to prove competency. Would you be happy to have an operation by a surgeon who failed their exams 10 times and passed automatically then? Maybe they work differently when they're not being supervised or examined, most people do, doesn't mean they should be allowed to practice. Why have a test at all if they get an automatic pass after multiple failures?

You seem to be getting very irate about this...

fin12

Well I passed the test first time as well and it was because I took a lot of driving lessons and had a very good driving instructor and also knew not to drive the way I normally do. ya I agree about the exaggerated head movements.

fin12

my3cents wrote: »

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I'd put money on the fact he never took any lessons between the tests because he was such an experienced driver :rolleyes:

OP when was the last time you took a driving lesson?

a few months ago before I passed my test, why? and I took nearly 30 of them and they are the reason why i passed.

ash1511

my3cents wrote: »

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I'd put money on the fact he never took any lessons between the tests because he was such an experienced driver :rolleyes:

OP when was the last time you took a driving lesson?

2 days back

my3cents

fin12 wrote: »

a few months ago before I passed my test, why? and I took nearly 30 of them and they are the reason why i passed.

Sorry not aimed at you, but if someone is complaining that they failed and doesn't take anymore lessons then I don't really see how they can expect to pass. The OP seems to be doing the right thing.

fin12

my3cents wrote: »

Sorry not aimed at you, but someone is complaining that they failed and doesn't take anymore lessons then I don't really see how they can expect to pass. The OP seems to be doing the right thing.

oh right sorry, I agree with you because I know a friend who is going for the test for the second time and has taken no lessons and I've basically said I dont think they will pass without some lessons. The lessons teach you how to drive to pass the test but who normally drives like that after?

fin12

Sorry guys, my reason for saying they shouldn't be allowed fail anyone after 10 times is because these people that keep doing the test multiple times are determined to drive and stay on the road so regardless of whether they pass or not they are going to continue driving. I just think its unfair to keep taking these people's money when they have failed multiple times before.

They have to come up with a new way of dealing with people who keep failing because it just doesn't seem fair to me.

Pizzle

fin12 wrote: »

Sorry guys, my reason for saying they shouldn't be allowed fail anyone after 10 times is because these people that keep doing the test multiple times are determined to drive and stay on the road so regardless of whether they pass or not they are going to continue driving. I just think its unfair to keep taking these people's money when they have failed multiple times before.

They have to come up with a new way of dealing with people who keep failing because it just doesn't seem fair to me.

I don't agree. Just because they are determined to drive doesn't mean they should. It could be a case that they just aren't cut out for driving. They shouldn't be entitled to a driving license unless they can demonstrate that they are a competent and safe driver.

ash1511

my3cents wrote: »

Sorry not aimed at you, but if someone is complaining that they failed and doesn't take anymore lessons then I don't really see how they can expect to pass. The OP seems to be doing the right thing.

Right thing and then too failed thrice unfairly

ash1511

Pizzle wrote: »

I don't agree. Just because they are determined to drive doesn't mean they should. It could be a case that they just aren't cut out for driving. They shouldn't be entitled to a driving license unless they can demonstrate that they are a competent and safe driver.

And for that, I think the RSA should think of a better way to test people, be it the 1st time or 10th time someone is sitting for a test. You can't question the tester's decision is the worst rule.

biko

My ex failed 3 times. I knew she wasn't great at progress and after driving with her a summer she did the test again and passed.

Pizzle

It does seem crazy that the examiners decision is final. It's a shame that a dash cam or something can't be attached to your car when sitting the test.

I wonder is that even allowed? It would be beneficial to look back on the recording and see exactly where you went wrong.

SillyBeans

Don't get me wrong, it can of course be very harsh on the people who get extremely nervous when they do a test but at the same time, just giving them the licence won't really do any favours. 9 times out of 10 if someone fails, I'd imagine it was the right call. If I can't keep my composure to drive during a test, who's to say I'd keep my composure if an ambulance needed to get past, if there were poor driving conditions, if I had to drive my (non-existent) babies around? You do need to be able to keep your nerve to drive well so, even though it really sucks, it's a necessary evil in my opinion. Whether or not we follow the standard of driving required by the test after we have a licence is irrelevant. There is a standard required to pass. If you can't meet that standard, you fail. Nobody has the right to a driving licence.

The dash cam idea is good, if it could be linked to your speedo even better. The problem with not being able to challenge the examiner is that it is your word against theirs. They've been passed as competent to perform these tests so there word does count for more. How does the judge know you drove as well as you say. The only possible solution is to offer a free retest which I think is fair enough. If they just passed you on appeal, every woeful driver would just appeal the decision.

ash1511

Pizzle wrote: »

It does seem crazy that the examiners decision is final. It's a shame that a dash cam or something can't be attached to your car when sitting the test.

I wonder is that even allowed? It would be beneficial to look back on the recording and see exactly where you went wrong.

Exactly. But that would mean all the tests are conducting fairly. Which in turn means that they won't be able to make money on the re-tests.

SillyBeans

ash1511 wrote: »

Exactly. But that would mean all the tests are conducting fairly. Which in turn means that they won't be able to make money on the re-tests.

But they can't just change the result based on what you've said. A retest is the only fair option. Yes, you may have been treated harshly, but how could somebody else judge that. If you failed a leaving cert paper, would you expect them to give you an A without seeing the paper, just because you felt you deserved better? I'm not saying you weren't harshly treated but how can someone who wasn't there know that. The dash cam idea or having a second examiner is probably the only solution to those types of things unfortunately. Chalk it down to experience, work on the things they've mentioned and pass it with flying colours next time

ash1511

SillyBeans wrote: »

But they can't just change the result based on what you've said. A retest is the only fair option. Yes, you may have been treated harshly, but how could somebody else judge that. If you failed a leaving cert paper, would you expect them to give you an A without seeing the paper, just because you felt you deserved better? I'm not saying you weren't harshly treated but how can someone who wasn't there know that. The dash cam idea or having a second examiner is probably the only solution to those types of things unfortunately. Chalk it down to experience, work on the things they've mentioned and pass it with flying colours next time

Thanks SillyBeans. I have been tested thrice. Every time the tester comes up with something new. I show it to my instructor and he gets surprised. I take a pre-test before my tests everytime although my instructor tells me that I don't need it since I drive well. Trust me had there been a dash cam or something, I would have proved my point. Unfortunately, there isn't. & they make money out of this. Appealing , taking pre-tests before the test or even asking for a dash cam won't help.

SillyBeans

ash1511 wrote: »

Thanks SillyBeans. I have been tested thrice. Every time the tester comes up with something new. I show it to my instructor and he gets surprised. I take a pre-test before my tests everytime although my instructor tells me that I don't need it since I drive well. Trust me had there been a dash cam or something, I would have proved my point. Unfortunately, there isn't. & they make money out of this. Appealing , taking pre-tests before the test or even asking for a dash cam won't help.

But maybe you did make a mistake that you weren't aware of. Or indeed maybe you didn't. That's what I'm saying, I don't know if you did, the person who decides the appeals doesn't know if you did. In the examiners professional opinion, you didn't meet the standard. You instructor can be surprised all he wants, he wasn't there. I had a fault for messing up my gears on the test, I'd never done that in my lessons, my instructor was surprised, I still made the mistake. Having different mistakes on different tests is quite normal, no two trips in the car are identical so why would you expect to have the same faults?

hardCopy

Pizzle wrote: »

Would you be happy driving in a car with someone who got their license in this way? Or worse still, how about school bus drivers?

If someone fails TEN times they should be banned for life. I wouldn't trust them on a bicycle.

Simon2015

When I did my first driving test I knew straight away I was going to fail because I got a very bad vibe off the tester.

I did infact fail but I passed it 2 months later when I did the test again.

I think there some testers out there who get pleasure out of failing people.

ash1511

SillyBeans wrote: »

But maybe you did make a mistake that you weren't aware of. Or indeed maybe you didn't. That's what I'm saying, I don't know if you did, the person who decides the appeals doesn't know if you did. In the examiners professional opinion, you didn't meet the standard. You instructor can be surprised all he wants, he wasn't there. I had a fault for messing up my gears on the test, I'd never done that in my lessons, my instructor was surprised, I still made the mistake. Having different mistakes on different tests is quite normal, no two trips in the car are identical so why would you expect to have the same faults?

Maybe you missed one of my replies. I've been driving in different countries (with stricter rules) since 10+ years now. There was no way in hell I would have failed three times that too here. On top of it, the tester was too rude to explain me my faults twice. I was marked for 'progress' 4 times - one of them being too slow in the estate (I was driving on 2nd gear). I was always told by my instructors to drive slowly inside the estate and keep it in 2nd gear. That's what I did. So yeah, maybe I should never even think I'm gonna pass 'coz I drive better than the testers.

ash1511

Simon2015 wrote: »

When I did my first driving test I knew straight away I was going to fail because I got a very bad vibe off the tester.

I did infact fail but I passed it 2 months later when I did the test again.

I think there some testers out there who get pleasure out of failing people.

I've got such testers thrice now

Simon2015

ash1511 wrote: »

Maybe you missed one of my replies. I've been driving in different countries (with stricter rules) since 10+ years now. There was no way in hell I would have failed three times that too here. On top of it, the tester was too rude to explain me my faults twice. I was marked for 'progress' 4 times - one of them being too slow in the estate (I was driving on 2nd gear). I was always told by my instructors to drive slowly inside the estate and keep it in 2nd gear. That's what I did. So yeah, maybe I should never even think I'm gonna pass 'coz I drive better than the testers.

It sounds like your tester is a gob****e.

fin12

ash1511 wrote: »

Maybe you missed one of my replies. I've been driving in different countries (with stricter rules) since 10+ years now. There was no way in hell I would have failed three times that too here. On top of it, the tester was too rude to explain me my faults twice. I was marked for 'progress' 4 times - one of them being too slow in the estate (I was driving on 2nd gear). I was always told by my instructors to drive slowly inside the estate and keep it in 2nd gear. That's what I did. So yeah, maybe I should never even think I'm gonna pass 'coz I drive better than the testers.

Ya Sure your supposed to drive under 30km in housing estates, that's what I was told by my driving instructor.

ash1511

Simon2015 wrote: »

It sounds like your tester is a gob****e.

I second you on that

ash1511

fin12 wrote: »

Ya Sure your supposed to drive under 30km in housing estates, that's what I was told by my driving instructor.

Please don't forget to pm me after you have clarified with your mum on what she did on the test day. Thanks!

SillyBeans

ash1511 I'm not doubting you, of course there are absolute ars*s out there in every line of work. All I'm saying is that there are also some ars*s who do driving tests (not that you're one of them!) and the person who decides the appeals doesn't know you're not one. The only reasonable solution is a free retest, they can't really give more than that based on your word against his. Your tester does sound like a gobsh!te for what it's worth. To be honest, I'd maybe have some lessons with a different instructor though, just to see if they might point out a few things to you? Just one or two, don't mention what your faults were and see if they pick you up on it? Maybe the tester was looking for you to be in third gear but at the same speed? Ask the new instructors opinion on that?

Anyway, best of luck with the retest, it's great that you have the confidence in your own driving, 4th times the charm!

fin12

ash1511 wrote: »

Please don't forget to pm me after you have clarified with your mum on what she did on the test day. Thanks!

Ya I will, shes at work il have to ring her later.

ash1511

SillyBeans wrote: »

ash1511 I'm not doubting you, of course there are absolute ars*s out there in every line of work. All I'm saying is that there are also some ars*s who do driving tests (not that you're one of them!) and the person who decides the appeals doesn't know you're not one. The only reasonable solution is a free retest, they can't really give more than that based on your word against his. Your tester does sound like a gobsh!te for what it's worth. To be honest, I'd maybe have some lessons with a different instructor though, just to see if they might point out a few things to you? Just one or two, don't mention what your faults were and see if they pick you up on it? Maybe the tester was looking for you to be in third gear but at the same speed? Ask the new instructors opinion on that?

Anyway, best of luck with the retest, it's great that you have the confidence in your own driving, 4th times the charm!

Thanks, SillyBeans . I just hope I pass this time. I really need the luck - coz this is what a driving test here depends on.

ash1511

fin12 wrote: »

Ya I will, shes at work il have to ring her later.

Thanks, fin12