Is Zebo a better fullback than Kearney

hype101

My view

Defence: Kearney probably shades it.
Positioning: Kearney but only because of experience.
Fielding: Kearney, as he may be the best in the world at this skill. That's not to say it's a weakness of Zebo.

Tactical kicking: Not much in it.
Attack, counter-attack & line-breaking ability: Zebo, no doubt.
Playmaking, creativity & X-factor: Zebo, hands down.

Kearney is undoubtedly a better 'goalkeeping' fullback that offers really assurance to those playing in front of him. However, his lack of creativity and cutting edge is a real negative and really limits our counter-attack. I also think that FB is Zebo's best position.

dub_skav

No

Tim Robbins

hype101 wrote: »

My view

Defence: Kearney probably shades it.
Positioning: Kearney but only because of experience.
Fielding: Kearney, as he may be the best in the world at this skill. That's not to say it's a weakness of Zebo.

Tactical kicking: Not much in it.
Attack, counter-attack & line-breaking ability: Zebo, no doubt.
Playmaking, creativity & X-factor: Zebo, hands down.

Kearney is undoubtedly a better 'goalkeeping' fullback that offers really assurance to those playing in front of him. However, his lack of creativity and cutting edge is a real negative and really limits our counter-attack. I also think that FB is Zebo's best position.

For severn's or Tag, I would say Zebo.
For full Rugby, Kearney hands down on everything.

hype101

dub_skav wrote: »

No

I think you're wrong but it's a matter of outlook.

ArmchairQB

NO!

Bandana boy

I also think No

you state No Doubt against Attack and counter attack , I dont agree I would have Rob ahead in this

Against Playmaking and creativity you say hands down , I put it close

Against X-Factor this is a really naff singing competition and a buzzword from TV3 it relates to nothing

That Said I would start Zebo on the wing against the French

First Up

hype101 wrote: »

I think you're wrong but it's a matter of outlook.

I think he's right and its a matter of fact.

vienne86

Which would we prefer to start the big games? Kearney for me, without question.

rrpc

Zebo attacks like the winger he is. He tends to drift across to the touchline and eat up space for the man inside him which happens a lot when he's playing full back. He's also (and I know he made good passes in the last match) inclined not to look to fix a defender with a view to making a pass.

When he's got time and space he'll usually make the right decision. In tighter traffic, he can be a bit blinkered to his options.

Drop the Ball

vienne86 wrote: »

Which would we prefer to start the big games? Kearney for me, without question.

100% Agree.

First Up

vienne86 wrote: »

Which would we prefer to start the big games? Kearney for me, without question.

Agree. In all the games we will have from here on in the WC, Kearney's fundamentals are a major asset and even the OP admits Kearney is better or at least as good at those. (He didn't mention line-kicking, which is sort of important too and which Kearney shades it on account of being pretty well as good with either foot, whereas Zebo has a big left boot and a right leg for standing on.)

Zebo has a part to play and undoubtedly will - maybe even at 15 at times. But it is no contest for the starting spot.

hype101

Bandana boy wrote: »

I also think No

you state No Doubt against Attack and counter attack , I dont agree I would have Rob ahead in this

Against Playmaking and creativity you say hands down , I put it close

Against X-Factor this is a really naff singing competition and a buzzword from TV3 it relates to nothing

That Said I would start Zebo on the wing against the French

I have to say I disagree. The amount of times I have seen Kearney gather the ball in space and simply run ten yards forward and get creamed is just maddening. Unless there is a obvious opportunity in front of you a proper counter-attacking FB should instinctively either run or pass the ball to the opposite wing as that is where the space is.

X-factor, I agree, is a wishy-washy phrase but I guess it essentially means creativity.

In response to another poster, I would play Zebo at FB against Italy and give Kearney 30 mins in the second half, shifting Zebo to the wing. I would judge then but if he had a stormer like last weekend, I would play Zebo at FB against France.

Moflojo

Not for the way Ireland and the rest of the home nations tend to play rugby. The single most important factor in determining the fullback's worth for these teams is his ability to field a high ball, and Kearney wins that contest by a considerable margin. Outside of that, it's a real toss-up between the two. I much prefer Zebo going forward - Kearney has been running down blind alleys for far too long in my opinion.

basillarkin

No. Zebo nowhere near Kearneys level and isn't even first choice at FB for Munster. I don't get the whole Zebo love.

CatFromHue

No

wp_rathead

No
He is an adequate backup - but no way is he a better FB than Rob Kearney

rrpc

hype101 wrote: »

I have to say I disagree. The amount of times I have seen Kearney gather the ball in space and simply run ten yards forward and get creamed is just maddening. Unless there is a obvious opportunity in front of you a proper counter-attacking FB should instinctively either run or pass the ball to the opposite wing as that is where the space is.

There's actually a very good reason for why he does this. When you collect the ball from an opposition kick, people seem to think you have only two options: kick it back or counter-attack.

In the first instance the kick back needs to be very good to gain any territory and relies on a good chase and/or pin point accuracy. To counter attack, you have to have at least two players (ideally more as the ABs sometimes do) with you to change the point of attack; one guy running at you with the ball is very easy to contain.

The third and often missed option is to run the ball back to your support as quickly as possible in order to minimise the amount of gain line the opposition can accrue and keep the possession. This is what Kearney does.

I think Zebo has been proving an awful lot of doubters wrong over the last year and is playing terrific rugby at the moment.

But at Full back Kearney is a critical part of how we play and is in great form. Zebo is a pretty big step down from Kearney in many aspects of full back play and I don't think his best position is full back, he is a winger and a damn good one that can do a job at full back.

Kearney get's a lot of stick for playing the exact way Joe asks him to play and he clarified much of this in an article recently. I think we are blessed to have two quality players that can play FB, but Kearney is one of the first names on the team sheet and Zebo may not get on the team sheet.

dub_skav

To quote myself, quoting the42, quoting Rob

“I think that’s maybe a little bit reflective of the opposition that some of the teams are playing against. Teams with a well-organised kick-chase, as a back three player you’re literally running into a wall of 12 or 13 players.

“If you pass the ball twice across the field, that’s 10 metres the opposition are getting on you whereas you haven’t moved the ball forward. It’s not pretty but generally the most effective thing to do is just get the ball and eat up the space as quickly as you can, try and win the halfway line.

You give your forwards a really clear idea of where the breakdown is going to be, you give them a clear idea of their barrels as opposed to maybe dancing around and not giving them a clear picture of where their contact is going to be.

“Obviously that will work later on in games when kick-chase might be a little bit more unorganised or after a little bit of kick tennis when teams are a little bit more organised, but it’s all very dependent on the style of game.”

Edit: By quoting myself I mean that I posted this last week too.

Nialler15

Lads you are forgetting about the best full back in the squad who is playing 13.

Payne plays most of his rugby for Ulster and is better than both in my opinion. Kearney is a great fielder and kick the leather off it merchant. His defence is a big negative for him as is his attack. He carries it back well but normally into contact. Doesnt link and rarely instigates anything.

Payne can field and kick well but his counter attack is streets ahead. Almost alwasys beats the first defender and his link play is brilliant. If we had another viable option at 13 I would love to see Payne given a run at 15.

Podge_irl

hype101 wrote: »

Defence: Kearney probably shades it.
Positioning: Kearney but only because of experience.
Fielding: Kearney, as he may be the best in the world at this skill. That's not to say it's a weakness of Zebo.

His positioning may be better only because of experience but that doesn't change the fundamental fact that is still much, much better and that is an absolutely enormous part of playing fullback.

blackdog1

Nialler15 wrote: »

Lads you are forgetting about the best full back in the squad who is playing 13.

Payne plays most of his rugby for Ulster and is better than both in my opinion. Kearney is a great fielder and kick the leather off it merchant. His defence is a big negative for him as is his attack. He carries it back well but normally into contact. Doesnt link and rarely instigates anything.

Payne can field and kick well but his counter attack is streets ahead. Almost alwasys beats the first defender and his link play is brilliant. If we had another viable option at 13 I would love to see Payne given a run at 15.

Yes but he's the only natural distributor in the backline besides cave. Henshaw and others just don't have his passing skills. On the topic. Zebo has more potential than Kearney but untill he matches his aerial ability it's a no for me. From playing as a forward for years you can't beat a full back who returns every ball. Also like to say I don't think Kearney has better defense than zebo. I think both of them should watch isa defend. They might learn something.

hype101

dub_skav wrote: »

To quote myself, quoting the42, quoting Rob



Edit: By quoting myself I mean that I posted this last week too.

Thanks. The only thing I would say about that is I disagree that defences have to tire to be disorganised. There are many times in games where a scrambling defence manages to get the ball away under pressure resulting in disorganised defences and consequent space on the opposing side to where the kick came from. It is on these occasions when I find Kearney's (Schmidt's) conservative approach maddening. I totally accept that off plays where a defence is organised across the line (eg a box-kick from a successful line-out) the 'running to your support approach' is a good idea.

blinding

This is probably a bit mean of me but I think that Kearney's injury history precludes him from being called a great player. Everytime he starts on a good run he gets injured and we have to reset.

How Reliable is Zebo at Fullback. Certainly has not proven it yet and this is a position where you have to be reliable.

80% of Kearney(without the injuries) and 20% of Zebo(with reliability) would be one hell of a full back.

bilston

Zebo has really impressed me at FB, however I would still have Kearney every day starting the big games, but put it this way of Kearney can't play this weekend I'd have no concerns with Zebo.

Jawgap

God, no.

For every one instance of brilliance, there's 10 sh!t-the-jocks moments with him.

If being an FB was all about sprinting forward and unpicking a quick line then Zebo would be the man, but under a high ball? Or for the last gasp try-saving tackle? Kearney all the way.

And he should stop doing that stupid 'Z' sign!

locum-motion

RK's the best FB in the world, so SZ can't be better than him!

Nialler15

locum-motion wrote: »

RK's the best FB in the world, so SZ can't be better than him!

Outrageous claim. You dont have to look too far to find better than Kearney. As much as it hurts to say, Mike Brown is way ahead of Kearney as is Halfpenny. Shall I continue?

Brianderunner

^^ Leigh Halfpenny all the way and the next lions tour will once again prove that

Drop the Ball

Brianderunner wrote: »

^^ Leigh Halfpenny all the way and the next lions tour will once again prove that

For me, going on current form, I would have Mike Brown starting at FB on the next lions tour...but there is a lot of rugby to be played between now and then.

P_1

Is this this decade's Dempsey v Murphy? Keraney for me, defence wins trophies.

Best full back in the NH right now is a toss up between Mike Brown and Rob Kearney.

People go on about halfpenny but are clouded by his kicking. Kearney had more meters run and defenders beaten in the six nations (by significant margins) and frankly was only competing with Hogg as top FB due to injuries elsewhere.

Mike Brown is a terrific player and overall might edge Kearney currently, but it's marginal in my opinion.

Nialler15

P_1 wrote: »

Is this this decade's Dempsey v Murphy? Keraney for me, defence wins trophies.

How can you rate Kearneys defence? His one on one tackling is one of the biggest downsides of his game.

Moflojo

Deleted User wrote: »

Mike Brown is a terrific player and overall might edge Kearney currently, but it's marginal in my opinion.

I'd argue that Kearney is currently 4th behind Brown, Hogg, and Halfpenny. Brown is top of the home nations fullbacks at present, probably Halfpenny 2nd for his goal kicking, high fielding, and tackling. Hogg for his X-Factor (everybody drink!)

mfceiling

Watch the last warm up game against England and then come back again.

sydthebeat

Nialler15 wrote: »

How can you rate Kearneys defence? His one on one tackling is one of the biggest downsides of his game.

no FB is imperious in one on one tackling

Kearneys may appear worse because he actually gets himself in the position to make the tackle, where a lot of other FBs would not be in the position to even lay a hand.

i cant remember the last time he was bumped off by a straight runner... its always the guys who are in full flight and step which make the full back look bad.

sydthebeat

sydthebeat wrote: »

no FB is imperious in one on one tackling

Kearneys may appear worse because he actually gets himself in the position to make the tackle, where a lot of other FBs would not be in the position to even lay a hand.

i cant remember the last time he was bumped off by a straight runner... its always the guys who are in full flight and step which make the full back look bad.

Feck off with your rationalisations, people are trying to bash Kearney here.

He's a better FB than Halfpenny and Hogg just looks like a wing playing FB to me (as evidenced by his overall crappy performances against Japan and USA). Brown is absolutely the real deal but he is an all out attack FB to Kearney's safety at the back FB.

Not much between them and both ahead of the rest.

Pudsy33

Nialler15 wrote: »

Outrageous claim. You dont have to look too far to find better than Kearney. As much as it hurts to say, Mike Brown is way ahead of Kearney as is Halfpenny. Shall I continue?

Brown is ahead of Kearney yeah, but the gap isn't huge. I'm really not sure about Halfpenney, he's a super player but I'd still prefer Kearney. The fact Halfpenney can kick goals makes him stand out but I'm reality I think Kearney is a better fullback.

jaansu

Has Dave Kearney played much FB?

wp_rathead

Pudsy33 wrote: »

Brown is ahead of Kearney yeah, but the gap isn't huge. I'm really not sure about Halfpenney, he's a super player but I'd still prefer Kearney. The fact Halfpenney can kick goals makes him stand out but I'm reality I think Kearney is a better fullback.

Don't think you're giving Halfpenny enough credit tbf, he is an amazing fielder of the ball (even better than Brown imo) and fantastic, hard tackler.
For me he is a better FB than Kearney (speaking as a Kearney fan)

RedemptionZ

Kearney for me against most teams. Really solid at basically everything. He won't be running in many tries after receiving a kick, but he'll very rarely give away possession needlessly. He makes the team better instead of going for glory a lot of the time. That said, I think there are scenarios where Zebo is the better option, against teams with a weak kicking game and strong pack for example. It's just the teams that fit that criteria are countries like Romania and Georgia, none of the top 8 would have very weak kicking out of hand. Zebo offers far less reliability but will be offering more in attack than Kearney.

Pepp1989

Brown is the best 15 on the world atm in my opinion. Kearney and zebo are different players. Suit different game plans. Delighted to have the option

Kev_2012

Kearney is better defensively and runs hard line. He a tough man to stop when he gets going.

Zebo has flair about him but he does cut out the space outside him a lot and his fielding was obvious brutal against England in the warm up.

As for the others, Halfpenny is good defensively and for kicking. He doesn't do much in terms of attacking but he is better than Kearney at the moment, but if Kearney was on form I'd pick him everytime.

Mike Brown is probably the best attacking FB in the Northern Hemisphere.

As for best in the world, that's between Ben Smith and Israel Folau I'd imagine!

laugh

That would be a no.

rrpc

Is there anything to be said for another mass Simon Zebo thread?

phog

Jawgap wrote: »

God, no.

For every one instance of brilliance, there's 10 sh!t-the-jocks moments with him.

If being an FB was all about sprinting forward and unpicking a quick line then Zebo would be the man, but under a high ball? Or for the last gasp try-saving tackle? Kearney all the way.

And he should stop doing that stupid 'Z' sign!

You have watched Kearney play, haven't you?

Pink Fairy

Most ridiculous thread ever!.......... Everyone knows the correct answer is Felix Jones!!

.ak

Pink Fairy wrote: »

Most ridiculous thread ever!.......... Everyone knows the correct answer is Felix Jones!!

Came here to post that!

thomond2006

Pink Fairy wrote: »

Most ridiculous thread ever!.......... Everyone knows the correct answer is Felix Jones!!

All hail Felix, King of the Fullbacks!

P_1

Pink Fairy wrote: »

Most ridiculous thread ever!.......... Everyone knows the correct answer is Felix Jones!!

Dunno, he never really picked things up after being cut by the Cowboys

feargale

Kearney when you're ahead and want to play it safe. Zebo for desperation stakes when you're 10 points behind with15 minutes to go and you need a miracle.