Is having children a cruel and purely selfish act?

DareGod

What are your thoughts?

The world is viciously overcrowded and unable to cope. Increasing the population only damages us even further.

What good does having children do for anyone but satisfy ones own longing for children?

Is it purely damaging to the current world population, which is already unable to cope with its size, to have children?

Is it also cruel to create a new sentient being and forcing it to live in a crumbling society/world?

Is having children purely cruel and selfish?

Don't take offence to this suggestion. It comes with zero judgement. If you feel judged, you have not been judged. The desire to procreate is one of the most natural things in the world, after breathing. I'm just asking whether you agree that these are facts or not, and if you disagree, why.

BoJack Horseman

No.

If we are to support the level of social services we in Europe enjoy, population growth is an absolute necessity.

Parts of the world may overproduce people, but not in our corner of the globe.... parents are frankly, doing their bit so that workers today have some sort of state pension in the future.

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

That's enough of AH for me this evening!

we'llallhavetea

my daughter is a carbon copy of me, so to not have had her would be denying the world of perfection.

LETHAL LADY

I've 3 sprogs and I can confirm I'm a cruel and selfish bitch.

Menas

No.

fineso.mom

I have 3 children. I am not worried that I have inflicted the world upon them, rather that I have inflicted them upon the world.😆

Edit.. They're lovely really.

Fluffy Cat 88

People who don't want children are often classified as "selfish" too.

Damned if ya do and damned if ya don't.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

DareGod wrote: »

What are your thoughts?

The world is viciously overcrowded and unable to cope. Increasing the population only damages us even further.

What good does having children do for anyone but satisfy ones own longing for children?

Is it purely damaging to the current world population, which is already unable to cope with its size, to have children?

Is it also cruel to create a new sentient being and forcing it to live in a crumbling society/world?

Is having children purely cruel and selfish?

Don't take offence to this suggestion. It comes with zero judgement. If you feel judged, you have not been judged. The desire to procreate is one of the most natural things in the world, after breathing. I'm just asking whether you agree that these are facts or not, and if you disagree, why.

No, this country is not overcrowded and a loving place for a child of caring parents to grow.
Having a child is the most selfless act at times, as your every motive of every day is to their good.
You have a twisted view of society if you think it could benefit from having no children and therefore no future and no hope of progression.

VinLieger

Having 1-3 children is fine as it keeps the human race growing.

What is a purely selfish act is where in indian culture they have as many children as possible in the hope they will all be boys so they take care of the parents in their old age, which is the main reason for the ridiculous population numbers in India

Rhys Essien

As an island of our size and in order to function properly,we are well underpopulated.If we never had the genocide of 1845-1850,our population would now be somewhere between 20-30 million.We were around 2/3 of Britains population back then.Now they are 64m,imagine us having 42m.

OP, whose taxes will pay to your pension?

Into The Blue

DareGod wrote: »

What are your thoughts?

The world is viciously overcrowded and unable to cope. Increasing the population only damages us even further.

What good does having children do for anyone but satisfy ones own longing for children?

Is it purely damaging to the current world population, which is already unable to cope with its size, to have children?

Is it also cruel to create a new sentient being and forcing it to live in a crumbling society/world?

Is having children purely cruel and selfish?

Don't take offence to this suggestion. It comes with zero judgement. If you feel judged, you have not been judged. The desire to procreate is one of the most natural things in the world, after breathing. I'm just asking whether you agree that these are facts or not, and if you disagree, why.

Not being bad, but if you reread your post with euthenasia on your mind....

Sam Kade

DareGod wrote: »

What are your thoughts?

The world is viciously overcrowded and unable to cope. Increasing the population only damages us even further.

What good does having children do for anyone but satisfy ones own longing for children?

Is it purely damaging to the current world population, which is already unable to cope with its size, to have children?

Is it also cruel to create a new sentient being and forcing it to live in a crumbling society/world?

Is having children purely cruel and selfish?

Don't take offence to this suggestion. It comes with zero judgement. If you feel judged, you have not been judged. The desire to procreate is one of the most natural things in the world, after breathing. I'm just asking whether you agree that these are facts or not, and if you disagree, why.

Well done, your parents must be proud of you.

meeeeh

Oh I love "philosophers". They always manage to find a topic that was chewed up million times and redo it.

Anyway no. I don't actually cre about the world enough to feel selfish or not selfish.

Massimo Cassagrande

It's like willingly sacrificing your freedom so that another can have life. If you were selfish, you'd run a mile from having kids.

colossus-x

If you spend your time trying to sculpt and force them to be something you want them to be rather than who they are then yes it is.

Brian from Bray

No.

But if you are not in a position financially to look after children then I don't think you should have kids.

PARlance

DareGod wrote: »

What are your thoughts?

The world is viciously overcrowded and unable to cope. Increasing the population only damages us even further.

What good does having children do for anyone but satisfy ones own longing for children?

Is it purely damaging to the current world population, which is already unable to cope with its size, to have children?

Is it also cruel to create a new sentient being and forcing it to live in a crumbling society/world?

Is having children purely cruel and selfish?

Don't take offence to this suggestion. It comes with zero judgement. If you feel judged, you have not been judged. The desire to procreate is one of the most natural things in the world, after breathing. I'm just asking whether you agree that these are facts or not, and if you disagree, why.

And deny the world of gems like you? Never

mattP

Having a child is not selfish, it's selfless. I wouldn't consider scraping the bottom of the barrel for at least 18 years to be all that desirable
The only selfish thing would be to have a child and be unwilling to compromise and give of yourself.

You could say having children is selfish because it serves a self-interest; nobody has kids because they think "oh I'd better perform my biological duty and help populate the world for future generations", they have kids because they want to be parents (well, most of the time!) But if you were to denounce having children as selfish, you'd also have to denounce not having children as selfish. Everyone is selfish to some degree and that's not a bad thing - you have to live your life the way you want and do what's best for you. I'm never having kids 'cause I'd be a rubbish Dad and have no desire to devote my life to bringing up children. I don't believe that makes me a selfish person; it would be more selfish to have kids I don't want just to keep up appearances and whatnot.

It is true that some developing parts of the world are overpopulated; local traditions, lack of education, poor or non-existent family planning and children being seen as a sort of insurance policy among the reasons for that (thank you Junior Cert geography! ) but then at the other extreme end of the scale you have Japan; approximately 25% of the population (possibly even more than that) is aged 65+ and birth rates are extremely low. They're predicted to have major problems with their aging population in the next few decades if their younger generations don't start breeding like rabbits!

wakka12

No, europes population is ageing badly due to people not having enough babies. The world is not overcrowded, the current resources are simply badly misused. Water being wasted in leaky pipes, people driving instead of using public transport, 1/3 of food being thrown out in the western world. Its not the number of people, its what the people are doing.

So yeah, no having children is not a bad thing. Europeans should have more babies, an ageing population causes society to collapse. As there arent enough workers to support pensioners, schools can't stay open, villages get abandoned, people in small aged villages are supplied with less services ... the outcome of an ageing population with less children is no better than one with lots of children and a higher population..

wakka12

Also not to generalise but Id say the number of people described as selfish by others are many times more likely to not have children than those described as giving or kind.

moc moc a moc

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

If we are to support the level of social services we in Europe enjoy, population growth is an absolute necessity.

I can think of better ways of solving our country's social services issues.

One eyed Jack

DareGod wrote: »

What are your thoughts?

The world is viciously overcrowded and unable to cope. Increasing the population only damages us even further.

The world isn't overcrowded. When we're stacked on top of one another, then you can complain about not having enough room to swing your mickey sideways. Every new life we bring into the world is one more to clean up our shìt when we're gone. Hell we spent their formative years cleaning up their shìt, they owe us one. The earth will still spin on it's axis.

What good does having children do for anyone but satisfy ones own longing for children?

Is it supposed to do something I'm unaware of? I wasn't aware anyone had to justify their reasons for wanting to have children to anyone else, unless of course they were going down the adoption or surrogacy route, and here in Ireland at least, adoption isn't really an option any more, and assisted reproduction legislation is about as clear as mud.

Is it purely damaging to the current world population, which is already unable to cope with its size, to have children?

Care to volunteer yourself for the first cull of the human race? I thought not.

Concerned enough to identify the problem, not concerned enough to volunteer to take the first step to fix it. The ultimate project manager

Is it also cruel to create a new sentient being and forcing it to live in a crumbling society/world?

Yes it is. Fortunately for the next generation, that's not what anyone is doing, society isn't crumbling, in fact we're still basking in the glory of the marriage equality referendum, so many amazing things about society ahead of us. Although now I think about it, I may have to get back to you on that one - my son went to mosque with his friends this morning after a sleepover last night, came home wearing... crocs! Crocs I tell you! I nearly lost my life, could very handy have reduced the population by one in that moment alone!

In spite of this little fashion faux pas, no, neither society, nor the world, is crumbling, and if anything, I have great hope for my child's future and that of his friends! The future is bright, the future is rainbow coloured

Is having children purely cruel and selfish?

No, that's a weird notion that belongs in misanthrope land, where there are no other misanthropes because they all wanted a land to themselves, thinking that if only there was a way in which they could not have to tolerate all these people, they came up with the idea of trying to convince people that having children was a bad idea. People laughed, which made the misanthropes hate them even more. No wonder they think people are cruel and selfish, when they bring it upon themselves.

(Not you DG, I'm making allowances as this isn't your usual style at all, I reckon someone raided the sherry cabinet? )

Don't take offence to this suggestion. It comes with zero judgement. If you feel judged, you have not been judged. The desire to procreate is one of the most natural things in the world, after breathing. I'm just asking whether you agree that these are facts or not, and if you disagree, why.

I hardly think anyone has taken offence really, tis After Hours after all, home of light hearted discussion. I don't personally feel judged, and I hope you're not feeling judged DG, unless you're wearing crocs right now. Then I will judge you, and I will judge you harshly!

In summary - I disagree, strongly.

booooring!

I prefer a pet goldfish, less maintenance and cheaper.

Reiver

The world is nowhere near overcrowded.

What's wrong with continuing the species? It's impetus to colonise the stars.

JustTheOne

It is a selfish act at the end of the day you're doing it to make yourself happy.

But I don't think its cruel act.

mohawk

My reading of the OP - people in Ireland/Europe are selfish for having kids because certain parts of the world are overpopulated....

cowboyBuilder

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

No.

If we are to support the level of social services we in Europe enjoy, population growth is an absolute necessity.

Parts of the world may overproduce people, but not in our corner of the globe.... parents are frankly, doing their bit so that workers today have some sort of state pension in the future.

Twaddle,
it's a global problem, people who have more then 2 kids (in Ireland seems to be normal to have 4,5,6 + kids) are irresponsible idiots.


Irony is they are leaving a worse quality of life for their own kids.

Stacksofwacks

DareGod wrote: »

What are your thoughts?

The world is viciously overcrowded and unable to cope. Increasing the population only damages us even further.

What good does having children do for anyone but satisfy ones own longing for children?

Is it purely damaging to the current world population, which is already unable to cope with its size, to have children?

Is it also cruel to create a new sentient being and forcing it to live in a crumbling society/world?

Is having children purely cruel and selfish?

Don't take offence to this suggestion. It comes with zero judgement. If you feel judged, you have not been judged. The desire to procreate is one of the most natural things in the world, after breathing. I'm just asking whether you agree that these are facts or not, and if you disagree, why.

No i dont think its selfish its part of human nature. However, it dosent preclude people from having kids who are selfish by nature or who choose to have kids for purely selfish reasons.
That aside, i think its a noble aspiration in life and the whole thing about population control\overcrowding etc its unfair to expect one person to be governed by that, its society's duty to deal with that potential problem

cowboyBuilder

Reiver wrote: »

The world is nowhere near overcrowded.

What's wrong with continuing the species? It's impetus to colonise the stars.

Sure is overcrowded, we don't need to be having 4 kids to be "continuing"
the species", people should have 1-2 kids , keep the population stable.

People worry about global warming (the least of our worries) yet keep their heads firmly stuck in the sand when it comes to over population.

Stacksofwacks

Brian from Bray wrote: »

No.

But if you are not in a position financially to look after children then I don't think you should have kids.

true. to that also i would add emotionally. then you are just passing your problems onto your kids

Mother Brain

Personally I won't be having children as I don't like the idea of forcing another being into existence. Could care less about the economic impact but I'm just a bit of a misanthrope and reckon I would have preferred not to have been born given the choice.

I don't like the world and I wouldn't wish the life sentence (and subsequent death sentence) on another conscious being.

I don't think it's selfish in the normal sense that you are having kids because it will benefit you in some material way, but it is certainly a decision people take because they want to be parents.

Except for the "accidents" of course!

wakka12

cowboyBuilder wrote: »

Twaddle,
it's a global problem, people who have more then 2 kids (in Ireland seems to be normal to have 4,5,6 + kids) are irresponsible idiots.


Irony is they are leaving a worse quality of life for their own kids.

The average woman in Ireland, and almost every woman in the western world has an average of less than 2 children. Thats not enough for a population to sustain itself..
In Ireland its not normal to have 6 children, thats a large exaggeration. Maybe you thinking of 1950's Ireland
Its a developing world problem only.

wakka12

cowboyBuilder wrote: »

Sure is overcrowded, we don't need to be having 4 kids to be "continuing"
the species", people should have 1-2 kids , keep the population stable.

People worry about global warming (the least of our worries) yet keep their heads firmly stuck in the sand when it comes to over population.

Again how many times does this need to be repeated. Europe's population is declining and this population decline will lead to problems worse than overcrowding ever could. Over population is literally the least of Europes future problems, we should be encouraging people to have more children here.

cowboyBuilder

wakka12 wrote: »

Again how many times does this need to be repeated. Europe's population is declining and this population decline will lead to problems worse than overcrowding ever could. Over population is literally the least of Europes future problems, we should be encouraging people to have more children here.

I find that extremely difficult to believe that the population of Europe is declining - perhaps the birth rate is ? but with migration surely it's not - again problem in developing worlds is our problem too - a global one!!!

Reiver

cowboyBuilder wrote: »

I find that extremely difficult to believe that the population of Europe is declining - perhaps the birth rate is ? but with migration surely it's not - again problem in developing worlds is our problem too - a global one!!!

Europe has a greying population. It's well known. I'm not sure all the migrants are specifically moving here to become residential care workers.

Why is the problem in the developing world our problem? They don't pay my ESB bill.

Mother Brain

Reiver wrote: »

Why is the problem in the developing world our problem? They don't pay my ESB bill.

Finite resources I would say. If 3 billion more people in the developing world are demanding oil based products and energy services in the next 20-30 years then you and / or your children will definitely be feeling the impact of that demand on your ESB bill.

wakka12

cowboyBuilder wrote: »

I find that extremely difficult to believe that the population of Europe is declining - perhaps the birth rate is ? but with migration surely it's not - again problem in developing worlds is our problem too - a global one!!!

At this very minute the population isn't declining but it is ageing. Importing immigrants will only solve the problem for a while, they will age too. And then the population will decline quite rapidly

Pherekydes

VinLieger wrote: »

Having 1-3 children is fine as it keeps the human race growing.

Having one child won't even maintain the status quo.

Reiver

Mother Brain wrote: »

Finite resources I would say. If 3 billion more people in the developing world are demanding oil based products and energy services in the next 20-30 years then you and / or your children will definitely be feeling the impact of that demand on your ESB bill.

Right by that logic I should have loadsa kids so the NWO has plenty of conscripts to use in its resource wars against the developing world.

_Brian

Surely having children is a selfless act.
Your ensuring the continuation of the human race.
You're willing to give up the single lifestyle to do no matter what it takes to raise your children and give them the best start possible.

Then there's the fact that you would change nappies, kill, mame and generally do anything to ensure their safety and well being.

How is this a selfish decision ??


The only thing I see as selfish are those who have children and them continue to live as if they had none !!

meeeeh

wakka12 wrote: »

At this very minute the population isn't declining but it is ageing. Importing immigrants will only solve the problem for a while, they will age too. And then the population will decline quite rapidly

Actually half of Europe already has declining population. If you draw a line from including Germany and Italy and go east you are in the minus countries.

Mother Brain

Reiver wrote: »

Right by that logic I should have loadsa kids so the NWO has plenty of conscripts to use in its resource wars against the developing world.

Sorry, I don't really understand what you mean. You asked why it's your problem and I gave a reason is all. As I said, I don't really care about the economic implications of having loads of kids but there will be a definite impact on scarce fossil fuel resources that we currently rely on as global population rises.

meeeeh

Mother Brain wrote: »

Sorry, I don't really understand what you mean. You asked why it's your problem and I gave a reason is all. As I said, I don't really care about the economic implications of having loads of kids but there will be a definite impact on scarce fossil fuel resources that we currently rely on as global population rises.

yeah it will be terrible, we will have to figure out how to use less of them. Oh the hassle of having to do this whole progress thing.

Reiver

Mother Brain wrote: »

Sorry, I don't really understand what you mean. You asked why it's your problem and I gave a reason is all. As I said, I don't really care about the economic implications of having loads of kids but there will be a definite impact on scarce fossil fuel resources that we currently rely on as global population rises.

Right. Because we're going to be dependent on fossil fuels forever.

Mother Brain

meeeeh wrote: »

yeah it will be terrible, we will have to figure out how to use less of them. Oh the hassle of having to do this whole progress thing.

Reiver wrote: »

Right. Because we're going to be dependent on fossil fuels forever.

If you read the post I said "currently rely on" I didn't imply we always would. There's also plenty of other things that are in finite supply that will be endangered due to massive population growth in the future.

Fossil fuels for a start don't solely deal with energy mind you. An absolute s**t ton of products from pharmaceuticals, plastics, chemicals etc are also based on hydrocrabons. Also there's things like rare earth metals used for computing products and so on.

I've no doubt in our ability as a species to largely deal with these problems but they shouldn't be dismissed out of hand.

Username here

DareGod wrote: »

What are your thoughts?

What good does having children do for anyone but satisfy ones own longing for children?

Is it purely damaging to the current world population, which is already unable to cope with its size, to have children?

Is it also cruel to create a new sentient being and forcing it to live in a crumbling society/world?

Is having children purely cruel and selfish?

I believe the children are our future
Teach them well and let them lead the way
Show them all the beauty they possess inside
Give them a sense of pride to make it easier
Let the children's laughter remind us how we used to be

CliCliW

Whether it's cruel and selfish depends.

If you want children just because you want to be a parent, and you don't have the resources to be able to nurture and support them to the level they need, then yes. It's ridiculously cruel and selfish.

It's quite difficult if you don't want children though, you're also called cruel and selfish then too. I don't want children and other than the fact that I'm only in my early 20's, I have reasons and anxieties about it that I don't think it's fair to impose on anyone else, much less a vulnerable child. I don't go into detail, I just say I don't want kids and everyone automatically assumes I'm selfish. I don't think I am, but whatever.

I love how philosophical and worldly everyone is about this, it's hilarious when you step back and think "hold on, do people actually think this when they talk about kids? Ageing populations? Resources? Declining population?" :-D

I'm guessing you all totally disagree with the law in China, where they limit the families to one child only? (Not sure if they do any more, but I did hear about it in the past)

Turtwig

Having children can only actually be selfish. The child gets no say in existence. The parent decides mostly all by themselves that for whatever reason they want kids. That's selfish.

Whether it's wrong or right is another matter. To answer the op's question if the child cannot give consent to its existence then the parent is having the child for its own reasons.