Wages two weeks late and still not paid

I started work in a new job at the end of June, the job was advertised as "looking for someone to create content and update website". When I started work I discovered that they didn't actually have a website even though they had paid a web designer to build one. I ended up building a site for them and have been working there for the past few months. In the time I've been there I've built a website and then had to build an entirely new one due to a single friend of the owner telling them that they think the site would look better with a hero image on the main page. It was an annoyance but nothing major and I enjoyed building a second site.

Now during this time I was also doing a variety of other jobs including answering the phone, working on the floor when it got busy and dealing with suppliers and the like. I didn't get paid for the first 6 weeks I was working there and had to repeatedly chase the boss to get paid. Since then I have rarely been paid on Friday as was agreed upon and it was often up to a week or two late.

Today the boss sat down and told me that the reason I have not been paid for the past two weeks is down to the fact that the business is down almost 20,000 due to me working there and that I'm not being paid till the website does a minimum of 1,000 a day. Now the first figure is absolutely ridiculous and if the business is down that much it's due to the complete and utter mismanagement of the business as a whole. I've been responsible for close to 8,000 in sales on the shop floor since I started which makes it even more insulting that I'm being blamed for their inability to run the business. The figure of 1,000 a day for the website is unreachable at the minute given that I'm not allowed to do any advertising of the site and I'm still waiting for her to sort out the online payments side of the business.

The only thing keeping me from walking out the door is that I'm owed two weeks wages and want to know where I stand. I've signed no contract or anything and am aware that she can fire me on the spot if she so wishes but at the same time I'm here 40 hours a week and as such feel that I should be paid for it.

Mrs OBumble

Sounds like an utter chancer, and the business is in serious financial trouble.

Contact NERA (https://www.workplacerelations.ie/) and tell them what she told you.

Check with Revenue and Welfare to see if your tax and stamps for the period have been paid over to them.

Start looking for another job (any job) right now. Leave the second you find one - I'm picking that your chances of being paid what you are owed are slim to nil.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Do you have a way of locking the site, or taking it down? I'd definitely threaten that, this isn't the first case I've heard of web designers getting done over.

frag420

If you still have access to the site then put up a new landing page outlining that regular access will be back to normal once staff are paid for the work they have done. Send your boss a screen shot before it goes live and give her 12 hrs to pay you or it goes live....and follow through if she does not pay you in full into your account, no cheques!!

I have had the misfortune of having a similar boss last year who blamed their inability to run a business on everyone but themselves. No surprise it went into liquidation two weeks ago.

Stand up to this mare and stand your ground!!

I've been on to a few places about it and have decided if I'm not paid by the end of the weekend that I'll be taking the site offline. As has been suggested, I already have an alternate landing page ready to go if I don't get paid and as I'm the only one with access to the admin side of the site figure that if I don't get paid then the site will be used to tell the world of how poorly run the business is.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Good man. I think a lot of this kind of messing is caused by employers not understanding how much work it takes to set up and good site, and also failing to grasp that just because you are "online" you are not entitled to a profit.

donkeyoaty0099

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Good man. I think a lot of this kind of messing is caused by employers not understanding how much work it takes to set up and good site, and also failing to grasp that just because you are "online" you are not entitled to a profit.

I've tried to explain that building an online business is a slow process that can take months, if not years. Simply having an online site is just the first step on the journey. She seems to think that once the site is there people will flock to it and spend thousands but as I've tried to explain, without advertising and time you'd be as well to spend you time trying to turn coal into gold.

ChippingSodbury

DONT put anything derogatory on the website. However, a simple "website off-line" page or something like that should serve your purpose.

ChippingSodbury

ChippingSodbury wrote: »

DONT put anything derogatory on the website. However, a simple "website off-line" page or something like that should serve your purpose.

Don't worry, I plan to ensure that I am covered every which way. I'm not going to leave myself open to any trouble. All I want is to get what is owed to me, it's as simple as that and I've explained it to her a number of times.

ChippingSodbury

Did you get paid?

Nothing as of yet but promises that I will be, though I've heard it all before. Will give it till tomorrow evening and if I've not been paid by then I'll be putting all my hard work behind a password that only I will have

KERSPLAT!

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Nothing as of yet but promises that I will be, though I've heard it all before. Will give it till tomorrow evening and if I've not been paid by then I'll be putting all my hard work behind a password that only I will have

I'm sure they'd be able to contact their hosting provider for passwords etc so it may be best to remove the site (download it to a USB or Dropbox) and just leave a landing page, so even if they get access they won't have the site

Zombienosh

wheter paid or not you should get out of there as fast as, sound like a right bunch of chancers.

KERSPLAT!

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

I'm sure they'd be able to contact their hosting provider for passwords etc so it may be best to remove the site (download it to a USB or Dropbox) and just leave a landing page, so even if they get access they won't have the site

The great thing about it is that it's all in my name, the boss wanted nothing to do with any aspect of it and told me to set up accounts for hosting, domain name, etc using my own name.

KERSPLAT!

Deleted User wrote: »

The great thing about it is that it's all in my name, the boss wanted nothing to do with any aspect of it and told me to set up accounts for hosting, domain name, etc using my own name.

More stupidity on their part but happy days for you!

KERSPLAT!

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

More stupidity on their part but happy days for you!

At the time I repeatedly asked if they were sure and now it just makes things a hell of a lot easier for me.

Manach

My sympathies are with the OP, but just as an FYI in that based on prior legal cases the ex-employee can be forced to handover the password if a court decides against them.

Mrs OBumble

Manach wrote: »

My sympathies are with the OP, but just as an FYI in that based on prior legal cases the ex-employee can be forced to handover the password if a court decides against them.

I'm sure that the ex-employee would cheerfully do so, once the appropriate court-order was issued. (mmm, wonder how many weeks that takes ...)

hanna200

again (2nd time i randomly open boards and hear story from galway 'business' people), bunch of chancers.
years ago i was asked to create an inventory system, someone has deleted the whole data from hdd and then i was one blamed for it.
i saw story on boards when daughter of one of business owners from galway admitted deleting whole thing and posted it here as a work mishap. i lost job at the time.
now again galway business man tries to talk to employee as if he was a contractor. -
OP make sure you keep records of all relationship. if you have no contract i tend to say that owner is trying to bully you for the business loss (perhaps see in you an opportunity to recover losses) not by sales but for suing you for loss of revenue due to not fulfilling the contractual obligations.
Make sure to keep record of everything.
At least ask for one payslip this will cover your back that you was not independent contractor but ee.

Be consequent in what you do.

BabySlam

OP, be wary of taking down the website and asking for money to be paid before you restore it, because that sounds like blackmail to be honest. However, my sympathies lie with you and if the site is owned by yourself then that seems ok to take it down (you could offer to sell it to the business if they show interest in having it back). Meantime, I think you should leave as I doubt they will pay you. If you are being regarded as an independent contractor have you invoiced them for your work?
/why not send them an invoice seeking settlement in 10 days ?

If you want to pursue being regarded as an "employee" then note you have few legal rights until 12 months has gone by.

hanna200

BabySlam wrote: »

OP, be wary of taking down the website and asking for money to be paid before you restore it, because that sounds like blackmail to be honest. However, my sympathies lie with you and if the site is owned by yourself then that seems ok to take it down (you could offer to sell it to the business if they show interest in having it back). Meantime, I think you should leave as I doubt they will pay you. If you are being regarded as an independent contractor have you invoiced them for your work?
/why not send them an invoice seeking settlement in 10 days ?

If you want to pursue being regarded as an "employee" then note you have few legal rights until 12 months has gone by.

No need to send them invoice and put himself/herself in a position as a contractor. He might lose much more than 2wks pay.

BabySlam

hanna200 wrote: »

No need to send them invoice and put himself/herself in a position as a contractor. He might lose much more than 2wks pay.

For example?

FAILSAFE 00

Best of luck OP.

Get your 2 weeks pay and get out of there. Restricted access to the site is a great idea to make sure you get paid and that they stop jerking you around.

Starokan

Its hard to believe an employer would actually come up with that story. I would keep requesting my pay until it almost becomes impossible to refuse you and then as soon as you are paid up to date I would be getting out as quickly as I could op because if they are choosing to not pay you then they simply do not value you as much as other employees.

You would want to be careful with taking the site down not because of any legal threat but simply because its very possible they want you to leave and may use the site being down as an excuse not to pay you and then just get someone else to build a new one when they are ready

FAILSAFE 00

Any cowboy employer will simply look at the cost of legal action vs paying whats owed and pay what is owed.

They may try the bully tactic of threatening legal action but thats all it is, a threat.

rubberdiddies

as someone suggested earlier, contact NERA.
At the very minimum, an employer must provide you with some form of contract of employment within 2 months of starting.

i'm presuming that you don't have that?

loyatemu

Manach wrote: »

My sympathies are with the OP, but just as an FYI in that based on prior legal cases the ex-employee can be forced to handover the password if a court decides against them.

if there's no contract and he hasn't been paid, how is he an employee (ex or otherwise)?

Hollister11

Wait until they have meetings with important people/clients then walk in and ask "Are you going to pay me, or keep ****ing me over ?",

Streetwalker

I'd walk out the door and refuse to make any more contact with them. Even if they offered me double my wages sooner or later you have to be able to stand up for yourself from piss takers like that. If they come looking for the passwords through the legal route you've signed no contract per say so it's their word against yours. Deny everything feck all they can do.

stevenmu

I would be very wary of taking the site offline.

Even though you haven't been paid, it would be considered the property of the business you work for. If you take it offline they could conceivably take civil action against you to recoup the costs of rebuilding the website, any losses incurred by the site being offline and reputational damage that may be suffered by the business. They could also involve the gardaí and make it a criminal matter, and it could be considered to be criminal damage.

IANAL etc, but I think that legally it would be very similar to walking on to the shop floor and smashing up a bunch of equipment/stock. It's ****ty that they're not paying you, but it unfortunately doesn't give you the right to do anything like this.

ads20101

It all comes down to who has the intellectual rights of the site.

The OP has stated that only he has access to the domain, that he designed it, and ultimately he created it.

On the other side the company requested that this site goes online and is obviously a portal for the company.

However, the manager is stating (implying at least) that the site isn't generating her expected income and therefore is not meeting her needs.

The OP has not been paid for the expertise he has provided. He has tried to promote his view points on how to proceed (ie advertising to augment the site) but this has been ignored.

I think the OP is perfectly within his rights to take down the site. Primarily for the reason that he has provided a service, the client has criticised it, and has not been paid for his services. The OP would be making a judgement call that his services are not what the manager requires based on all reasonable verbal and actioned evidence and leave.

I think that the manager would be insane to take this to a civil court when there is a good chance that it would not result in a successful outcome for her.

If you want to cover your back OP then just replace with a basic site. identifying business contact information (nothing negative).

Oh, and one more thing, after you leave invoice the company. They asked you to do a service, you spent time, money and expertise doing it and you deserve to be compensated.

FAILSAFE 00

There won't be any court cases lol.

Jezzz, it's just a cowboy employer who definitely will not want to be paying lawyers for something that can be easily sorted by paying whats owed.

I am waiting for someone to post about what can happen at the high courts next

Ant695

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

There won't be any court cases lol.

Jezzz, it's just a cowboy employer who definitely will not want to be paying lawyers for something that can be easily sorted by paying whats owed.

I am waiting for someone to post about what can happen at the high courts next

Skip the high court and go straight to the EU!!!!!!

corkonion

Maybe you'd be better off giving up on the wages owed as they have a hold on you while you stay and try and get what you are due. Walk away, but also offer to sell them your website for what you think its worth, I think that would put you in a stronger bargaining position,

5rtytry56

Deleted User wrote: »

She seems to think that once the site is there people will flock to it and spend thousands

Common misconception among business people who are'nt current with IT.

tayto lover

Best of luck OP in whatever you do.
I know i'd not leave without making things very hard for them.

Got paid one weeks wages meaning that once again I'll be owed two weeks wages come Friday, going to give them an ultimatum of either pay me what I'm owed or I'm taking the website with me. Was offered another job last night so I won't be stuck for work if I walk out of my current job this weekend.

CliCliW

Worst case scenario, go in and sit there taking up space and do absolutely nothing. If they're total cowboys you might be able to get them to cough up that way. It's crap you're in that position, hope you get sorted out soon.

Matteroffact

Absolutely disgusted that anyone could treat someone like this OP. You would be better off leaving this company as it looks like you are always going to have hassle with them. I can't advise you what to do but I would hate to be dealing with people like that.

Galway K9

got i remember having a job liek this. take the website down, replace with a default page. Gte a new job and demand to be payed for the domain to be released and the websiite.

God i hate employers like this.

Accepted new job and was going to work here till the Friday before I start the new job but decided that I'm going to demand both weeks wages I'm owed and then tell the current boss that I'm quitting. Going to take a week and lay on the couch at home playing video games and watching films. Last night is the first night in months that I slept all the way through the night and I believe it's because all that stress I've had with being paid and the bully by my current boss is no more. I know that in the new job on pay day I'll be paid and the working environment is one where they seem to value their employees.

Mrs OBumble

Delighted to hear you got a new job - and I'll repeat my previous advice:

Check with Revenue and Welfare to see if your tax and stamps for the period have been paid over to them.

You need to find out if there are any nasty surprises, eg your current job not having handed over the cash for your PAYE to Revenue.

It happens, especially from the sort of employer you have described, and it's one of the worst things an employer can do, because Revenue can be looking to you for the cash later on

kazamo

Deleted User wrote: »

Got paid one weeks wages meaning that once again I'll be owed two weeks wages come Friday, going to give them an ultimatum of either pay me what I'm owed or I'm taking the website with me. Was offered another job last night so I won't be stuck for work if I walk out of my current job this weekend.

When you were paid, did you get a payslip ?

Have payslips for each week, just not the necessary money transferred to me. Really came to head the other day when I rang up my bank to reinstate my direct debit and they asked was I in full time employment. I said I was and the reply was "sorry, just looking at your account and the payments in are so sporadic that it doesn't look like you are".

I've already contacted Revenue and waiting on a call back from them and at this stage just happy to know that starting soon I won't dread waking up on pay day and praying my wages are in.

kazamo

Deleted User wrote: »

Have payslips for each week, just not the necessary money transferred to me. Really came to head the other day when I rang up my bank to reinstate my direct debit and they asked was I in full time employment. I said I was and the reply was "sorry, just looking at your account and the payments in are so sporadic that it doesn't look like you are".

I've already contacted Revenue and waiting on a call back from them and at this stage just happy to know that starting soon I won't dread waking up on pay day and praying my wages are in.

Having all the payslips is more evidence and if an employer issues a payslip but doesn't pay the employee, that only makes your case stronger.

Re revenue, they are only concerned with paye/prsi/usc and if you haven't been paid they don't care about that. It is likely that your employer is behind in P30's or has lowballed them.

It may be time to speak to a solicitor