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Wages two weeks late and still not paid

  • 25-09-2015 11:26AM
    #1
    Posts: 15,814 ✭✭✭✭


    I started work in a new job at the end of June, the job was advertised as "looking for someone to create content and update website". When I started work I discovered that they didn't actually have a website even though they had paid a web designer to build one. I ended up building a site for them and have been working there for the past few months. In the time I've been there I've built a website and then had to build an entirely new one due to a single friend of the owner telling them that they think the site would look better with a hero image on the main page. It was an annoyance but nothing major and I enjoyed building a second site.

    Now during this time I was also doing a variety of other jobs including answering the phone, working on the floor when it got busy and dealing with suppliers and the like. I didn't get paid for the first 6 weeks I was working there and had to repeatedly chase the boss to get paid. Since then I have rarely been paid on Friday as was agreed upon and it was often up to a week or two late.

    Today the boss sat down and told me that the reason I have not been paid for the past two weeks is down to the fact that the business is down almost 20,000 due to me working there and that I'm not being paid till the website does a minimum of 1,000 a day. Now the first figure is absolutely ridiculous and if the business is down that much it's due to the complete and utter mismanagement of the business as a whole. I've been responsible for close to 8,000 in sales on the shop floor since I started which makes it even more insulting that I'm being blamed for their inability to run the business. The figure of 1,000 a day for the website is unreachable at the minute given that I'm not allowed to do any advertising of the site and I'm still waiting for her to sort out the online payments side of the business.

    The only thing keeping me from walking out the door is that I'm owed two weeks wages and want to know where I stand. I've signed no contract or anything and am aware that she can fire me on the spot if she so wishes but at the same time I'm here 40 hours a week and as such feel that I should be paid for it.


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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,706 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Sounds like an utter chancer, and the business is in serious financial trouble.

    Contact NERA (https://www.workplacerelations.ie/) and tell them what she told you.

    Check with Revenue and Welfare to see if your tax and stamps for the period have been paid over to them.

    Start looking for another job (any job) right now. Leave the second you find one - I'm picking that your chances of being paid what you are owed are slim to nil.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,041 ✭✭✭zl1whqvjs75cdy


    Do you have a way of locking the site, or taking it down? I'd definitely threaten that, this isn't the first case I've heard of web designers getting done over.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,161 ✭✭✭frag420


    If you still have access to the site then put up a new landing page outlining that regular access will be back to normal once staff are paid for the work they have done. Send your boss a screen shot before it goes live and give her 12 hrs to pay you or it goes live....and follow through if she does not pay you in full into your account, no cheques!!

    I have had the misfortune of having a similar boss last year who blamed their inability to run a business on everyone but themselves. No surprise it went into liquidation two weeks ago.

    Stand up to this mare and stand your ground!!


  • Posts: 15,814 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I've been on to a few places about it and have decided if I'm not paid by the end of the weekend that I'll be taking the site offline. As has been suggested, I already have an alternate landing page ready to go if I don't get paid and as I'm the only one with access to the admin side of the site figure that if I don't get paid then the site will be used to tell the world of how poorly run the business is.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,041 ✭✭✭zl1whqvjs75cdy


    Good man. I think a lot of this kind of messing is caused by employers not understanding how much work it takes to set up and good site, and also failing to grasp that just because you are "online" you are not entitled to a profit.


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  • Posts: 15,814 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Good man. I think a lot of this kind of messing is caused by employers not understanding how much work it takes to set up and good site, and also failing to grasp that just because you are "online" you are not entitled to a profit.

    I've tried to explain that building an online business is a slow process that can take months, if not years. Simply having an online site is just the first step on the journey. She seems to think that once the site is there people will flock to it and spend thousands but as I've tried to explain, without advertising and time you'd be as well to spend you time trying to turn coal into gold.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,379 ✭✭✭ChippingSodbury


    DONT put anything derogatory on the website. However, a simple "website off-line" page or something like that should serve your purpose.


  • Posts: 15,814 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    DONT put anything derogatory on the website. However, a simple "website off-line" page or something like that should serve your purpose.

    Don't worry, I plan to ensure that I am covered every which way. I'm not going to leave myself open to any trouble. All I want is to get what is owed to me, it's as simple as that and I've explained it to her a number of times.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,379 ✭✭✭ChippingSodbury


    Did you get paid?


  • Posts: 15,814 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Nothing as of yet but promises that I will be, though I've heard it all before. Will give it till tomorrow evening and if I've not been paid by then I'll be putting all my hard work behind a password that only I will have


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 31,152 ✭✭✭✭KERSPLAT!


    Nothing as of yet but promises that I will be, though I've heard it all before. Will give it till tomorrow evening and if I've not been paid by then I'll be putting all my hard work behind a password that only I will have

    I'm sure they'd be able to contact their hosting provider for passwords etc so it may be best to remove the site (download it to a USB or Dropbox) and just leave a landing page, so even if they get access they won't have the site


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,911 ✭✭✭Zombienosh


    wheter paid or not you should get out of there as fast as, sound like a right bunch of chancers.


  • Posts: 15,814 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    KERSPLAT! wrote: »
    I'm sure they'd be able to contact their hosting provider for passwords etc so it may be best to remove the site (download it to a USB or Dropbox) and just leave a landing page, so even if they get access they won't have the site

    The great thing about it is that it's all in my name, the boss wanted nothing to do with any aspect of it and told me to set up accounts for hosting, domain name, etc using my own name.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 31,152 ✭✭✭✭KERSPLAT!


    The great thing about it is that it's all in my name, the boss wanted nothing to do with any aspect of it and told me to set up accounts for hosting, domain name, etc using my own name.

    More stupidity on their part but happy days for you!


  • Posts: 15,814 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    KERSPLAT! wrote: »
    More stupidity on their part but happy days for you!

    At the time I repeatedly asked if they were sure and now it just makes things a hell of a lot easier for me.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 9,833 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    My sympathies are with the OP, but just as an FYI in that based on prior legal cases the ex-employee can be forced to handover the password if a court decides against them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,706 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Manach wrote: »
    My sympathies are with the OP, but just as an FYI in that based on prior legal cases the ex-employee can be forced to handover the password if a court decides against them.

    I'm sure that the ex-employee would cheerfully do so, once the appropriate court-order was issued. (mmm, wonder how many weeks that takes ...)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66 ✭✭hanna200


    again (2nd time i randomly open boards and hear story from galway 'business' people), bunch of chancers.
    years ago i was asked to create an inventory system, someone has deleted the whole data from hdd and then i was one blamed for it.
    i saw story on boards when daughter of one of business owners from galway admitted deleting whole thing and posted it here as a work mishap. i lost job at the time.
    now again galway business man tries to talk to employee as if he was a contractor. -
    OP make sure you keep records of all relationship. if you have no contract i tend to say that owner is trying to bully you for the business loss (perhaps see in you an opportunity to recover losses) not by sales but for suing you for loss of revenue due to not fulfilling the contractual obligations.
    Make sure to keep record of everything.
    At least ask for one payslip this will cover your back that you was not independent contractor but ee.

    Be consequent in what you do.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 349 ✭✭BabySlam


    OP, be wary of taking down the website and asking for money to be paid before you restore it, because that sounds like blackmail to be honest. However, my sympathies lie with you and if the site is owned by yourself then that seems ok to take it down (you could offer to sell it to the business if they show interest in having it back). Meantime, I think you should leave as I doubt they will pay you. If you are being regarded as an independent contractor have you invoiced them for your work?
    /why not send them an invoice seeking settlement in 10 days ?

    If you want to pursue being regarded as an "employee" then note you have few legal rights until 12 months has gone by.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66 ✭✭hanna200


    BabySlam wrote: »
    OP, be wary of taking down the website and asking for money to be paid before you restore it, because that sounds like blackmail to be honest. However, my sympathies lie with you and if the site is owned by yourself then that seems ok to take it down (you could offer to sell it to the business if they show interest in having it back). Meantime, I think you should leave as I doubt they will pay you. If you are being regarded as an independent contractor have you invoiced them for your work?
    /why not send them an invoice seeking settlement in 10 days ?

    If you want to pursue being regarded as an "employee" then note you have few legal rights until 12 months has gone by.

    No need to send them invoice and put himself/herself in a position as a contractor. He might lose much more than 2wks pay.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 349 ✭✭BabySlam


    hanna200 wrote: »
    No need to send them invoice and put himself/herself in a position as a contractor. He might lose much more than 2wks pay.

    For example?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,459 ✭✭✭FAILSAFE 00


    Best of luck OP.

    Get your 2 weeks pay and get out of there. Restricted access to the site is a great idea to make sure you get paid and that they stop jerking you around.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 746 ✭✭✭Starokan


    Its hard to believe an employer would actually come up with that story. I would keep requesting my pay until it almost becomes impossible to refuse you and then as soon as you are paid up to date I would be getting out as quickly as I could op because if they are choosing to not pay you then they simply do not value you as much as other employees.

    You would want to be careful with taking the site down not because of any legal threat but simply because its very possible they want you to leave and may use the site being down as an excuse not to pay you and then just get someone else to build a new one when they are ready


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,459 ✭✭✭FAILSAFE 00


    Any cowboy employer will simply look at the cost of legal action vs paying whats owed and pay what is owed.

    They may try the bully tactic of threatening legal action but thats all it is, a threat.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 717 ✭✭✭rubberdiddies


    as someone suggested earlier, contact NERA.
    At the very minimum, an employer must provide you with some form of contract of employment within 2 months of starting.

    i'm presuming that you don't have that?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,912 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    Manach wrote: »
    My sympathies are with the OP, but just as an FYI in that based on prior legal cases the ex-employee can be forced to handover the password if a court decides against them.

    if there's no contract and he hasn't been paid, how is he an employee (ex or otherwise)?

    Put your money where yer mouth is... Subscribe and Save Boards!

    https://subscriptions.boards.ie/



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Hollister11


    Wait until they have meetings with important people/clients then walk in and ask "Are you going to pay me, or keep ****ing me over ?",


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,906 ✭✭✭Streetwalker


    I'd walk out the door and refuse to make any more contact with them. Even if they offered me double my wages sooner or later you have to be able to stand up for yourself from piss takers like that. If they come looking for the passwords through the legal route you've signed no contract per say so it's their word against yours. Deny everything feck all they can do.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭stevenmu


    I would be very wary of taking the site offline.

    Even though you haven't been paid, it would be considered the property of the business you work for. If you take it offline they could conceivably take civil action against you to recoup the costs of rebuilding the website, any losses incurred by the site being offline and reputational damage that may be suffered by the business. They could also involve the gardaí and make it a criminal matter, and it could be considered to be criminal damage.

    IANAL etc, but I think that legally it would be very similar to walking on to the shop floor and smashing up a bunch of equipment/stock. It's ****ty that they're not paying you, but it unfortunately doesn't give you the right to do anything like this.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,453 ✭✭✭ads20101


    It all comes down to who has the intellectual rights of the site.

    The OP has stated that only he has access to the domain, that he designed it, and ultimately he created it.

    On the other side the company requested that this site goes online and is obviously a portal for the company.

    However, the manager is stating (implying at least) that the site isn't generating her expected income and therefore is not meeting her needs.

    The OP has not been paid for the expertise he has provided. He has tried to promote his view points on how to proceed (ie advertising to augment the site) but this has been ignored.

    I think the OP is perfectly within his rights to take down the site. Primarily for the reason that he has provided a service, the client has criticised it, and has not been paid for his services. The OP would be making a judgement call that his services are not what the manager requires based on all reasonable verbal and actioned evidence and leave.

    I think that the manager would be insane to take this to a civil court when there is a good chance that it would not result in a successful outcome for her.

    If you want to cover your back OP then just replace with a basic site. identifying business contact information (nothing negative).

    Oh, and one more thing, after you leave invoice the company. They asked you to do a service, you spent time, money and expertise doing it and you deserve to be compensated.


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