Norweigan to begin Cork - Boston

pajoguy

To be announced in the next few weeks according to front page of tomorrows Examiner.

alphasully

If it does come to pass it will be some boost to the Airport and the local economy.

Crumbs868

Will be interested to see what aircraft they use, surely their 787s are too large?

They are due a320NEOs in 2016...

vonbarracuda

It's in the Irish times New York and Barcelona rumoured to follow in 2017

Van.Bosch

Great news for Cork airport if true. After years of rumours and discussion hopefully it is supported and does well.

I doubt IAG will react as their focus will be DUB.

Excellent news for Cork, now people of Cork get out there and make it work. You don't want to get yourselves a bad name as an airport and community that wants wants wants but when given a service don't use it.

keithclancy

Crumbs868 wrote: »

Will be interested to see what aircraft they use, surely their 787s are too large?

They are due a320NEOs in 2016...

No way, Runway length is 2133 meters (6988 feet)

787 MTOW (Minimum runway required for takeoff at Max Takeoff Weight.) requires 3140 meters (10300 feet)

http://planes.axlegeeks.com/compare/293-459/Boeing-787-8-Dreamliner-vs-Boeing-757-300

JCX BXC

Hmm, an A320. On windy days will they have to make a fuelstop at SNN? (Sorry)

man98

NAX are notorious for cheap long haul flights, which is just what the Irish love. While some among us like to have a checked bag or a meal on a long haul flight, this won't be an issue I would say.

keithclancy

keithclancy wrote: »

No way, Runway length is 2133 meters (6988 feet)

787 MTOW (Minimum runway required for takeoff at Max Takeoff Weight.) requires 3140 meters (10300 feet)

http://planes.axlegeeks.com/compare/293-459/Boeing-787-8-Dreamliner-vs-Boeing-757-300

MTOW, Etihad/Emirates Dublin runway 16 to Dubai and Abu Dhabi 777-300s !!

MoeJay

I would bet that the 787 would have the performance even in Cork to make it, the question is what type of payload could it lift...? I.e. could it depart full?

keithclancy

Deleted User wrote: »

MTOW, Etihad/Emirates Dublin runway 16 to Dubai and Abu Dhabi 777-300s !!

If the wind is right, but if not they can always fall back to Runway 10.

Tabnabs

Ironically probably an Irish regged aircraft if and when it does happen

https://twitter.com/Fly_Norwegian/status/635772933852545025

Fabio

This is fantastic news, really great for Cork. I hope businesses in the area use it, that can really drive growth.

I wonder will they bring in a 757 for this or will they use an A320NEO. The NEO has the range but not sure of runway length needed for MTOW. Norwegian have 737-800s on the books too but not sure if they are ETOPS certified.

MoeJay

MoeJay wrote: »

I would bet that the 787 would have the performance even in Cork to make it, the question is what type of payload could it lift...? I.e. could it depart full?

Personally I don't think I'll be a 787, they barely have enough of them to run their current schedule and don't have any more on order. They have a 737 base now in Boston.

The pertinent question is does the 737-800 have the range for the route without a payload issue.

keithclancy

keithclancy wrote: »

If the wind is right, but if not they can always fall back to Runway 10.

My point is stop getting hung up on MTOWs, heavier aircraft can do further on shorter runways.

I'm sure the range off Cork with MTOW for the runway would be enough to do that route and that's assuming it's a 787. Personally I think it'll be a 737.

Tabnabs

Norwegian's longest route currently with the 737 800 is Oslo - Dubai (about 3190 miles). Cork to Boston is 2920 miles.

Of course, they use Arlanda as an alternative if running low on fuel...

Tabnabs

Tabnabs wrote: »

Norwegian's longest route currently with the 737 800 is Oslo - Dubai (about 3190 miles). Cork to Boston is 2920 miles.

Of course, they use Arlanda as an alternative if running low on fuel...

Plenty of alternates on the way for a refuel to Boston namely Bangor, Halifax and St Johns if needed.

roundymac

keithclancy wrote: »

No way, Runway length is 2133 meters (6988 feet)

787 MTOW (Minimum runway required for takeoff at Max Takeoff Weight.) requires 3140 meters (10300 feet)

http://planes.axlegeeks.com/compare/293-459/Boeing-787-8-Dreamliner-vs-Boeing-757-300

If you go by those figures then even SNN would have trouble trying to operate a 787-8 SNN being 3200.
Great news especially if JFK is to follow, it will save me my annual trip to SNN to drop and more importanly collect the O/H.

Del2005

Will Cork get US pre clearance? Might not be much of a time saving if you end up queuing when you land.

roundymac

Doubtful, can't see US officials making that trip,,,,,from SNN:)

Del2005

Del2005 wrote: »

Will Cork get US pre clearance? Might not be much of a time saving if you end up queuing when you land.

For one flight three times a week !!! No it won't. While it would be great, the costs involved wouldn't be justifiable. The time saving is negligible as you would still need to arrive at Cork airport earlier to ensure you were processed in time. The time saving is getting off the plane and walking out the door after getting your bags rather than off the plane and getting into a queue to be processed.

Avada

Del2005 wrote: »

Will Cork get US pre clearance? Might not be much of a time saving if you end up queuing when you land.

Won't happen imo. Especially with a low cost carrier, afaik the carrier has to levy a charge for CBP, plus would require major infrastructure works to put into ORK.

martinsvi

why even mention MTOW for a plane that can do 7355 NM for a route that's just over 2500NM? it will pretty much fly with half empty tanks or even emptier, if you account for full seats + 20KG bag each you get nowhere near MTOW unless you take elephants in your cargo

737-800 across the pond? very unlikely, with the jet streams in the winter where they are when even 757s struggle, I don't see that happening, people will quickly get annoyed by fuel stops every flight and will take their money elsewhere

Given than Norwegian has no feeder network into Cork, starting a longhaul service there only makes sense if the plane will be coming from somewhere else and use Cork as a stopover. That's what they've been doing in Europe, they have routes from Stansted to Canaries that stop in Copenhagen or Oslo for more pax.. if they use the same model - A321 Neo, coming from let's say Oslo stopping at Cork for fuel and more Pax, and most likely from Boston continuing on to one of the Caribbean islands with a different call sign and crew.. A321 Neo will just have that missing set of legs that 737-800 just don't have at the moment

roundymac

It may not be all year round so the winter jet stream would not interfere with it. Could very well be that they would operate Boston-Cork-Boston instead of the other way around. No positioning flight then. We can really only speculate untill the press release.

smurfjed

Engines Turn or Passengers Swim..... do the 737-800 have ETOPS approval?

martinsvi

smurfjed wrote: »

Engines Turn or Passengers Swim..... do the 737-800 have ETOPS approval?

as you probably know ETOPS is a 2 tier process - you need your type approval and operator approval. All 737 NGs are ETOPS 180 type approved, but as far as I know Norwegian does not hold operators certificate for 737 ETOPS

highlydebased

They are taking delivery of 737 max which they say will be used for "Small European Cities" to USA routes, so it's a given they would use it in Cork. First delivery not til 2017 though...

http://www.routesonline.com/news/29/breaking-news/249343/norwegian-to-use-737max-to-boost-transatlantic-network/

Bigcheeze

Do we even know if these flights are direct? Remember Wow announcing Dublin to Boston flights via Iceland.

To be honest even if I lived in Cork I'd debate driving to Shannon for pre clearance. On a bad day it can be several hours on the other end.

flanzer

Cork Airport press release
https://www.corkairport.com/gns/at-the-airport/latest-news/15-09-25/Cork_Airport_Wins_Its_First_Transatlantic_Routes.aspx

The airline plans to operate its new Cork transatlantic services with a narrow bodied Boeing 737-800 aircraft and the new Boeing 737MAX when it becomes available.

Interesting that

vetinari

Fantastic news! Been living in Boston for nearly 10 years, never thought I'd see a direct flight option to Cork!

Bigcheeze wrote: »

Do we even know if these flights are direct? Remember Wow announcing Dublin to Boston flights via Iceland.

To be honest even if I lived in Cork I'd debate driving to Shannon for pre clearance. On a bad day it can be several hours on the other end.

Ah here, do you work for Shannon airport?

It's Boston airport not JFK / Miami.
You could be unlucky but most times I've done immigration in Boston I've been through well under an hour.

Whereas with preclearance in Shannon you have to
a) add on an hour in terms of arriving at the airport
b) Drive at least an hour and a half to Shannon

There's no comparison, the immigration queue would have to be consistently over 2 and a half hours to consider going through Shannon for preclearance.

Don't forget, you're also queueing for immigration at the same time your bags are coming off the plane so there's some time saving there as well.

highlydebased

Going by the press release it will in effect be BCN-ORK-BOS-ORK-BCN

onasis

Bigcheeze wrote: »

Do we even know if these flights are direct? Remember Wow announcing Dublin to Boston flights via Iceland.

To be honest even if I lived in Cork I'd debate driving to Shannon for pre clearance. On a bad day it can be several hours on the other end.

Not a chance. I live in Cork and wouldn't travel to Shannon unless I had no other option. The road is chronic in parts and the line for clearance is just as long at this end as it is at the other end. I generally fly via London just to avoid the Journey to Shannon. I'll be using the Cork route whenever possible.

9726_9726

onasis wrote: »

Not a chance. I live in Cork and wouldn't travel to Shannon unless I had no other option. The road is chronic in parts and the line for clearance is just as long at this end as it is at the other end. I generally fly via London just to avoid the Journey to Shannon. I'll be using the Cork route whenever possible.

The road to Shannon is downright dangerous. I hate driving it. This is great news for Cork. I would support this and the planned New York flights for sure. Great to see new aircraft making these routes possible at smaller airports!

onasis

9726_9726 wrote: »

The road to Shannon is downright dangerous. I hate driving it. This is great news for Cork. I would support this and the planned New York flights for sure. Great to see new aircraft making these routes possible at smaller airports!

I'd also love to see NY on the agenda going forward but will travel to Boston even if it's just to support Cork Airport - use it or lose it

Comhrá

A bit more detail:

http://www.independent.ie/life/travel/travel-news/cork-airport-announces-transatlantic-flights-to-boston-and-new-york-31557881.html

munchkin_utd

onasis wrote: »

I'd also love to see NY on the agenda going forward but will travel to Boston even if it's just to support Cork Airport - use it or lose it

go down to waterford and explain that concept to them !

but its great news for Cork and you'd expect they'll do ok with it.
Ireland is a very low cost carrier aware country so the lack of a heap of full service perks and lounges and whatnot shouldnt be an issue.
That its not a monster twin Aisle plane for the 5/6 hour journey wont bother people who otherwise would have been on a (non twin aisle) bus for 4 hours to Dublin to catch the onward flight.

And if its a through service from BCN, it'll put bums on seats too, ensuring it works.

slight tangent, but its funny to see Norwegian and a couple of others using a 737 from Ireland transatlantic yet the largest operator of the type in Europe (Ryanair) wont countenance trans atlantic without a larger plane again.

Strumms

It will be interesting to see the pricing on the route. Id love to see it do well for them but i wonder will the price be signicently cheaper for people not to want to go to SNN to avail of pre clearance and to avoid such a long flight in a 737 ? Good luck to them either way hope it works well..

onasis

munchkin_utd wrote: »

go down to waterford and explain that concept to them !

but its great news for Cork and you'd expect they'll do ok with it.
Ireland is a very low cost carrier aware country so the lack of a heap of full service perks and lounges and whatnot shouldnt be an issue.
That its not a monster twin Aisle plane for the 5/6 hour journey wont bother people who otherwise would have been on a (non twin aisle) bus for 4 hours to Dublin to catch the onward flight.

And if its a through service from BCN, it'll put bums on seats too, ensuring it works.

slight tangent, but its funny to see Norwegian and a couple of others using a 737 from Ireland transatlantic yet the largest operator of the type in Europe (Ryanair) wont countenance trans atlantic without a larger plane again.

TBH i'd travel on a broomstick just to go direct. The plane size won't bother me in the slightest and as for food/drinks - we eat too much when it's free si I've no problem there either as long as the price is right.

roundymac

Hope it goes ahead unlike the previous attempt with Ryan Air/Slattery travel Tralee. They pulled out because of poor booking. My wife was gutted as was I, I had to go to SNN to drop her off and go back in the early morn to collect her. @ Bigchezze, it will be worth it even without preclearence, the flight home means you land in Cork and you home (well I am anyway) in 10mins after clearing customs.

Jamie2k9

go down to waterford and explain that concept to them !

If Cork was quicker from Waterford City then maybe but i'ts not or only by 10-15 minutes at most......

It's up to people where/when they fly, it's Cork people from Cork particularly North Cork which are doing the biggest damage to Cork by using Shannon. You often see people say north of Mallow and it's Shannon.

Us Waterford people don't really care if Cork Airport closes or loses routes as it doesn't affect the vast majority of us as we have UK connections and bucket and spade will always be at Cork for that few.

fr336

Great news for Cork, well done to them. Not such good news for those who think Ireland should only have one airport...as an outsider, this amuses me no end.

highlydebased

Nevermind impacting SNN I'd be surprised if it has no impact on ORK-LHR/AMS, especially if they launch a JFK flight too for there would surely be a downturn in conx passengers there

martinsvi

you can book a direct flight with norwegian on dreamliner from Stockholm to JFK for just about 300 eur return - no food, no baggage, no seat reservation included, but at that price it's nearly 50% cheaper than competition. If the prices are just as good or even better from Cork, this will definitely leave an impact to the market, you'll see people going from every part of the country to fly for that fare..

fr336

martinsvi wrote: »

you can book a direct flight with norwegian on dreamliner from Stockholm to JFK for just about 300 eur return - no food, no baggage, no seat reservation included, but at that price it's nearly 50% cheaper than competition. If the prices are just as good or even better from Cork, this will definitely leave an impact to the market, you'll see people going from every part of the country to fly for that fare..

From zero to hero eh

smurfjed

787-8 DRY Runway limited will be around 425,000 lbs at 10C, that allows for a 100,000 payload with fuel around 65000.

Problem is that the 787-8 will be WET VMCG limited and requires a 7700 ft runway.

Taken from 787-8 QRH.

Jamie2k9

Call a spade here low cost or no, all SNN ops are narrow body and people think a B787 could be profitable from Cork. Really?

martinsvi

fr336 wrote: »

From zero to hero eh

will see how this plays out, I guess I'm too old to be cramped on a 738 for 6-7 hours, the layout and seat pitch is pretty much the same as on Ryanair so that would be a no from myself, but the thought of increasing competition and refined products always excite me

martinsvi

smurfjed wrote: »

787-8 DRY Runway limited will be around 425,000 lbs at 10C, that allows for a 100,000 payload with fuel around 65000.

Problem is that the 787-8 will be WET VMCG limited and requires a 7700 ft runway.

Taken from 787-8 QRH.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Call a spade here low cost or no, all SNN ops are narrow body and people think a B787 could be profitable from Cork. Really?

the 787 talk is soo this morning, get on with times,will ya? No one's talking about 787 anymore, we've established it will be 738 in summer and then at some point replaced by 737MAX

LeChienMefiant

munchkin_utd wrote: »

slight tangent, but its funny to see Norwegian and a couple of others using a 737 from Ireland transatlantic yet the largest operator of the type in Europe (Ryanair) wont countenance trans atlantic without a larger plane again.

It's a brave LCC that come into Ryanair's yard. If this works out for Norwegian then they have proved the business case for Ryanair. Like how Easyjet blazed a trail for Always Getting Better. Incidentally, Ryanair are going to have 200 new planes to fill.

JCX BXC

LeChienMefiant wrote: »

It's a brave LCC that come into Ryanair's yard. If this works out for Norwegian then they have proved the business case for Ryanair. Like how Easyjet blazed a trail for Always Getting Better. Incidentally, Ryanair are going to have 200 new planes to fill.

How exactly? The most Ryanair can do is ORK-BCN.