Well over asking price and seller refuses

TearFairy

Hi guys,

We have been bidding on a house for over 3 weeks, we are now the only bidders left and the price is 27K over the price. Spoke to EA who said the seller thinks he can get more and has refused our offer. He said he advised him to take our offer, it was a fair price etc

I know this happens all the time but its incredibly unfair. The house was on at a price (possibly slightly underpriced no doubt to get people interested) but our offer is more than fair given the location, work its needs doing etc.
I understand the seller is out to make as much as possible but there really sure be some sort of ethics and fairness to this process!

As much as it galls me because I don't want to give him a penny now given he is being greedy we are just left in limbo and are leaving our offer on the table. Obviously we will keep looking at other houses but I guess there is nothing else we can do regarding this house? We wont withdraw our offer because we do want the house and hope he doesn't get anymore bids in but the seller said he is prepared to risk us withdrawing our offer for the chance of getting a higher one. Should we just forget the house??

sweetie

He's entitled to do what he likes, its not a shop. You could put a time limit on your offer but he may still hold out.

Slydice

Leave the offer with them if you want but ...

Walk.

Willfarman

Tell them that's fine and withdraw your offer. He won't stand as good a chance of a higher offer with no offer to outbid if you follow me. Auctioneer may not be telling you the whole truth as well.

alias no.9

Don't necessarily withdraw your offer but ask to view another house on the same estate agents books

MarkAnthony

You've a bankers vendors - they're a fairly large club.

Keep looking and say nothing, you'll have the last laugh if they come back to you and you're closing on somewhere nicer and cheaper.

Also fairness in buying and selling houses, best joke I've heard in a while. :pac:

gaius c

They are either greedy or not actually selling.
Move on.

In other news, some states in the US have it that if you get a bid of the asking price, you have to pay the agent their fee. Gets rid of the messers pretty quick.

MarkAnthony

gaius c wrote: »

They are either greedy or not actually selling.
Move on.

In other news, some states in the US have it that if you get a bid of the asking price, you have to pay the agent their fee. Gets rid of the messers pretty quick.

I could see how that's turn out here :pac:

gaius c

Well there's an incentive to actually sell the property because otherwise you'll be paying them their fee just for the craic.

They've done their job and brought you a bidder at the asking price (or better). Why shouldn't they get paid?

MarkAnthony

gaius c wrote: »

Well there's an incentive to actually sell the property because otherwise you'll be paying them their fee just for the craic.

They've done their job and brought you a bidder at the asking price (or better). Why shouldn't they get paid?

Because every bidder would be suspiciously named Ted and live in Kerry with no way of being contacted.

I understand where you're going but let's get the current process a bit more transparent before we start this craic!

c montgomery

gaius c wrote: »

Well there's an incentive to actually sell the property because otherwise you'll be paying them their fee just for the craic.

They've done their job and brought you a bidder at the asking price (or better). Why shouldn't they get paid?

I actually think it's a great idea.

davo10

TearFairy wrote: »

Hi guys,

We have been bidding on a house for over 3 weeks, we are now the only bidders left and the price is 27K over the price. Spoke to EA who said the seller thinks he can get more and has refused our offer. He said he advised him to take our offer, it was a fair price etc

I know this happens all the time but its incredibly unfair. The house was on at a price (possibly slightly underpriced no doubt to get people interested) but our offer is more than fair given the location, work its needs doing etc.
I understand the seller is out to make as much as possible but there really sure be some sort of ethics and fairness to this process!

As much as it galls me because I don't want to give him a penny now given he is being greedy we are just left in limbo and are leaving our offer on the table. Obviously we will keep looking at other houses but I guess there is nothing else we can do regarding this house? We wont withdraw our offer because we do want the house and hope he doesn't get anymore bids in but the seller said he is prepared to risk us withdrawing our offer for the chance of getting a higher one. Should we just forget the house??

Print off this post, laminate it and put it aside, to be taken out and viewed by you when it is your turn to sell and the purchaser comes to you and tells you that what he/she offered you is fair and that you should sell for what they offer even though you think it is worth more.

The "asking price" is just the price at which it was brought to market, what it is "worth" is the maximum amount that someone is willing to pay for it, the seller believes, rightly or wrongly only time will tell, that the property is worth more.

Jen44

agreed, of course the seller is going to try get the best price, he may end up cutting off his nose to spite his face but its his decision to make, his house his sell.

TearFairy

Thanks for all the replies.

davo - I take your point but I don't think I'd ever have it in me to dick people around whether I was selling or not. If he wants X for the house, put it on the market at that price or close enough to it. Like I've said we have offered almost 30k over it, to me its taking the p++s after almost a month of bidding to turn around and say nah give me more. I understand its a business but there has to be some level of good faith and common decency. I don't agree with you, what its worth is what its worth. What someone is willing to pay for it can depend on a number of things - my reason is I commute 2 1/2 hours a day, I barely see my child, this house is close to work, family etc and we went way over for those reasons. It needs a lot of work, this price is more than what its 'worth' in monetary value. And yes sweetie he is entitled to ask what he wants for it my point is why not just ask for it at the very beginning!


I definitely think there needs to be some system in place to stop peoples time and energy being wasted - be that is the vendor get the asking price offered the EA gets his fee. We have had to email in all our bids so I am assuming this to provide some sort of transparency to the bidding process?
For some reason people seem to think its actually ok to do this when selling/buying a house yet we wouldn't accept it in any other type of purchase.

MarkAnthony - I hope you are right and we do get the last laugh!!!!

Flatzie_poo

TearFairy wrote: »

I definitely think there needs to be some system in place to stop peoples time and energy being wasted - be that is the vendor get the asking price offered the EA gets his fee.

That won't happen - the entire contract law process would be broken.

Think of Invitation to Treat.

TearFairy wrote: »

We have had to email in all our bids so I am assuming this to provide some sort of transparency to the bidding process?

There is a standards body over EA's, maybe so someone with more knowledge on their control/powers could chip in here... I'm out of my depth bar knowing it exists.

TearFairy wrote: »

MarkAnthony - I hope you are right and we do get the last laugh!!!!

I'm with you here. I was d!cked around for 2 weeks with an EA, ended up getting a really good deal in the meantime, and telling him to withdraw my offer was a highlight of my year so far!! Best of luck to you - there are bargains out there - they just need time & effort to find.

I saw my house, offered a price, and it was accepted the next day. In hindsight, to stop my time being wasted I would go to the Agent, offer "€xx" and say that the offer is valid for 4 days... If they'll sell at the price you offer, you'll find out by then - otherwise you save wasting your own time here.

Live an learn OP! Hang in there!

davo10

TearFairy wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies.

davo - I take your point but I don't think I'd ever have it in me to dick people around whether I was selling or not. If he wants X for the house, put it on the market at that price or close enough to it. Like I've said we have offered almost 30k over it, to me its taking the p++s after almost a month of bidding to turn around and say nah give me more. I understand its a business but there has to be some level of good faith and common decency. I don't agree with you, what its worth is what its worth. What someone is willing to pay for it can depend on a number of things - my reason is I commute 2 1/2 hours a day, I barely see my child, this house is close to work, family etc and we went way over for those reasons. It needs a lot of work, this price is more than what its 'worth' in monetary value. And yes sweetie he is entitled to ask what he wants for it my point is why not just ask for it at the very beginning!


I definitely think there needs to be some system in place to stop peoples time and energy being wasted - be that is the vendor get the asking price offered the EA gets his fee. We have had to email in all our bids so I am assuming this to provide some sort of transparency to the bidding process?
For some reason people seem to think its actually ok to do this when selling/buying a house yet we wouldn't accept it in any other type of purchase.

MarkAnthony - I hope you are right and we do get the last laugh!!!!

I'm sorry op but this really isn't true. The seller has not "dicked" you around, he has not accepted your bid and will not sell at that price.

You seem to think that the advertised price is the price that reflects its worth and that it should be sold at or close to that price. Worth is subjective, to one person the house might be worth X, to another it could be worth X + €100k if it is exactly what they want in the location they want. That is the reality of property purchase, just because you feel your offer equals its true value does not make it so. The seller may lose out by taking this course of action, but he also may make more money, only time will tell.

Don't be codding yourself that you wouldn't do the same. A time may come when you and your family outgrow your home and need to trade up. For every euro you sell below the maximum achievable price for your property, that will be another euro you will have to take from your savings/borrow from the bank to buy your new home, if you take the moral high ground and are happy to use €30k of your own hard earned money just so that you don't hurt the feelings of the people you are selling too, ( think how much you would have to earn in order to have €27k in your pocket to spend, I'd say it would be around €100k) you are a true Christian, but a bad business person who will have cost yourself and your family a lot of money.

TearFairy

But davo again my point is dont put the house on at a price you won't accept!! That is dicking people around. The seller is a landlord with several properties, this house was rented out until a few weeks ago so its not a case he is trading up. I keep agreeing its a business and he is out to make as much as he can but be upfront about it. State your price and then hold out till you get it.

I am far from a good Christian and of course I would want to get as much as possible for it if I was selling but I would advertise at the price I wanted to sell it at. We are the highest/only bid in now for over a week, according to EA the last two viewings where very quiet.

Anyway I put this up to get peoples opinions and I do appreciate hearing them. We would really like the house and I was just wondering if we stood any chance of getting it, we cant go any higher price wise so I guess its not to be!

Avatar MIA

I've no problem with what the seller is doing. He suspects you are desperate.

What I would do is ring the EA, drop your offer by as much as possible, what was the offer from the last remaining other bidder and say it is on the table until next Wednesday. Then don't contact them again unless you are willing to give them your first born child.

Willfarman

Letting a sound mortgaged buyer off the hook that is giving you the value of your house isn't sound business sense. It may of been so in the Celtic pantomime but not now.

sweetie

TearFairy wrote: »

But davo again my point is dont put the house on at a price you won't accept!! That is dicking people around. The seller is a landlord with several properties, this house was rented out until a few weeks ago so its not a case he is trading up. I keep agreeing its a business and he is out to make as much as he can but be upfront about it. State your price and then hold out till you get it.

I am far from a good Christian and of course I would want to get as much as possible for it if I was selling but I would advertise at the price I wanted to sell it at. We are the highest/only bid in now for over a week, according to EA the last two viewings where very quiet.

Anyway I put this up to get peoples opinions and I do appreciate hearing them. We would really like the house and I was just wondering if we stood any chance of getting it, we cant go any higher price wise so I guess its not to be!

You seem very naive about the housing market. It's all about marketing, some price higher whilst others price low to get interest and more bidding.
It is what it is.

TearFairy

Sweetie I am far form naive, I am very aware this happens all the time I just don't see the point in it. As I said previously we wouldn't accept this kind of crap in any other type of buying/selling arrangement. As I have pointed out, it was under priced possibly but not to the extent yer man reckons it is worth!

Avatar, I was actually considering that also thanks!

Willfarman, thanks. Yes we are mortgage approved, first time buyers so not in a chain. I actually thought that was a positive when it came to buying a house!

As for the comment they sense we are desperate - nope certainly never came across as that. We have viewed several other properties with the same agent during this process. We took our time with each bid we submitted and was involved in bidding on another house with the same agent before this and told him we had X price we would pay given the work needed doing and walked away as soon as it went over that. So the agent knows we wont go over what we say we will

seamus

Ring the EA this morning. Tell them the current offer is valid until 5pm today, after that it's gone.

If they ring you next week or in two months to "accept" your offer, tell them that offer is gone and offer asking again.

You have to actually follow through with this though, which can be tough when you've been looking for months.

Flatzie_poo

sweetie wrote: »

You seem very naive about the housing market. It's all about marketing, some price higher whilst others price low to get interest and more bidding.
It is what it is.

I don't think he's naive, I think he's frustrated.

It's a very long drawn out process, you see a house you like listed at a price you can afford and you find out it's not available for what you thought it was.

Anyone who gets a mortgage for 300k, instantly goes to Daft or MyHome & looks for a property within those parameters. OP did the same.

You're not wrong in what you say whatsoever about the market, but I think OP's reaction is normal. Disappointment. Later comes acceptance!

AlanG

They may be just trying to value the house so they can sell it to a part owner or relative. You should just ask the EA has he got anything similar who is serious about selling.
After that set a deadline and walk away.

Sunny Dayz

OP if the house is owned by a landlord with a number of properties, it's not by any chance a receivership sale? I seen with a house near us a receiver was appointed and put the house on the market, the couple renting it put in a good bid, it was rejected and the seller wanted more, the tenants wouldn't bid any higher, no other interest in the property and it ended up in an Allsop auction going for less than what the tenants had offered!


OP put a time limit on your bid, if he's serious about selling it he would be mad not to accept.

horsebox7

I can empathise completely. A good friend of mine also had to pay well over the asking price. If you don't feel doing this is worth it you really have to walk away. But if you think you like the area and the house is good for you as much as it hurts the only thing that talks out there is not ethics or morals its hard cash unfortunately.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

What? You're not entitled to it. It's his property and he can hold out for as much as he likes, in fact he'd be a fool not to get as much as he possibly could. If that doesn't suit you, maybe look for somewhere else

ec18

eh it's not asking price ono....why shouldn't the seller get as much as possible for it?......I'd do the same in his place

TearFairy

Flatzie_poo - you have summed it up thank you. Its very frustrating but hey I have read enough on here to know unfortunately its the norm. You spend ages going through the mortgage process, then trying to find a house within your budget, then weeks of bidding to be the highest bidder only to be told they want more money - frustrating isnt the word.

thanks for all the advice ref where to go next regarding where to go next with this. Will think about it over the weekend and hope that somewhere else comes up that we might have a chance of getting!

anvilfour

alias no.9 wrote: »

Don't necessarily withdraw your offer but ask to view another house on the same estate agents books

I think this is the best advice, the estate agent may subtly let the seller know you are shopping around.

3DataModem

I think we should move to the Scottish system, done through solicitors (not EAs) and where you can price your house on a "first offer that meets it" basis.

TearFairy

Lexi/ec Im not disputing he shouldn't get what he can for it. We have ONLY ever viewed properties within out budget. This house was within our budget, its wasting my time and others if they never intended selling for that price. l can only hope that the fact its still advertised at the asking price but when someone enquires or views is told its well over it that's what is and will continue to put people off!

TearFairy

TearFairy wrote: »

Lexi/ec Im not disputing he shouldn't get what he can for it. We have ONLY ever viewed properties within out budget. This house was within our budget, its wasting my time and others if they never intended selling for that price. l can only hope that the fact its still advertised at the asking price but when someone enquires or views is told its well over it that's what is and will continue to put people off!

Asking under what they expect to get is a tactic to generate viewings.

I know you are frustrated, but you are personalising it too much, there will be other houses that are close to work and close to family, if you had to email in your bids its indicates the EA is professional in their job so possible not messing you around. I would say the seller has come across the information that you are very keen on the house and that what making them hold out.

Until you have paid the deposit on a house keep looking even when you are bidding on a particular house and do it with the same EA that's selling the house you want, keep a polite professional relationship going with the EA.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Well then just give them a time frame. You're the one with the cash in your pocket. "This offer is on the table until Wednesday evening", and if it's not accepted, withdraw it. You're not asking for the house for free. He is not going to come back to you in a months time and say "yeah I can't get anything more for it, it's yours".

pink_polkadot

A very long discussion over something very simple:

-Asking price is an unreliable indicator of what people think the house might go for.
-A house is worth what someone will pay for it.
-If someone doesnt want to sell, its their prerogative. You cannot force them to sell just as you cannot be forced to buy.
-If after discussions they are still looking for more than you are willing to bid, then move on.

3DataModem

3DataModem wrote: »

I think we should move to the Scottish system, done through solicitors (not EAs) and where you can price your house on a "first offer that meets it" basis.

I though the Scottish system was offers over the asking an important difference as you are trying to guess what the other bidder are doing it would not make the system more transparent although it would be a simpler.

sbsquarepants

It is a bit of a pain in the arse but that's just how it goes I'm afraid. There are some countries where if you advertise your house for sale at a certain price you are legally bound to accept the first offer you receive at that price - doesn't matter if the following day you're offered double you must take the first offer.
The theory is it stops estate agents artificially bumping prices but I doubt it works in reality, they probably just price it at the upper end and then let the bidders play out their game anyway.

Pac2015

This has happened to a house where I live too, its on for 390K and there is an offer on the table for 410K from some very interested people and the house needs repair and renovation has been on the market for close to 3 years now as the couple seperated and its not worth more then what is being offered but they are refusing this offer ( its not from me but someone I know ) as I think they feel they can get alot more but as I said maybe in the boom they could have but not now.
They really need to decide on their priorities and stop wasting people's time.

davo10

pink_polkadot wrote: »

A very long discussion over something very simple:

-Asking price is an unreliable indicator of what people think the house might go for.
-A house is worth what someone will pay for it.
-If someone doesnt want to sell, its their prerogative. You cannot force them to sell just as you cannot be forced to buy.
-If after discussions they are still looking for more than you are willing to bid, then move on.

Exactly right. But the problem is that we tend to get emotional about property rather than looking at it as a business transaction like any other. If a petrol station is charging more than other places, we don't buy there unless we either don't care or we need it there and then, but we don't get emotionally attached about petrol and we don't go around feeling dicked around, we just move on. Yet op you feel that a price advertised should be the price paid, that I'm afraid is a double edged sword as it implies that you should also not be able to buy at below that price, you can't have it both ways so start looking at this as a business transaction or an auction whereby th seller sets the reserve that must be met and only the highest bid will be successful unless you are a cash buyer.

TearFairy

Pac2015 that's just unreal, having the house on the market that long - unless they are renting it out or happy enough to live there for now is just crazy!

Look I am not taking it personally and I know it happens was just looking for advice as to whether people think its still possible we will get this house or should we walk away. Of course I know we have to decide for ourselves at the end of the day

pink_polkadot - not a terribly long discussion but a discussion none the less on a board that is set up to have this type of discussion on! What maybe 'simple' to some is very important to others - ie spending or trying to spend a few hundred thousand on a property in order to provide a home for our family. Of course though all you say is true, if he doesn't want to sell to us he won't

FAILSAFE 00

I'd get the ****s up the estate agent and the owner. Reduce the offer slightly 5k and explain that it will only get reduced further in x amount of time. EA are so used to the ole "We are looking at another property" line. Play some hard ball.

My guess is the owner wants to use your offer has leverage to get a better deal.

TearFairy

But in other areas of business this kind of thing wouldn't be tolerated. if I went into a garage to pay for petrol and get to the till only to be told the price advertised isn't what I was now paying I'd be rightly p++sed off! I do understand its a business transaction, they want to make money and as much as possible. But all I am saying is there has to be some way to stop genuine people from having a month of their time wasted.

davo10

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

I'd get the ****s up the estate agent and the owner. Reduce the offer slightly 5k and explain that it will only get reduced further in x amount of time. EA are so used to the ole "We are looking at another property" line. Play some hard ball.

My guess is the owner wants to use your offer has leverage to get a better deal.

This the best one yet, offer not accepted so that means you should offer less. All this when there is a severe shortage of houses and rents are going through the roof. Brilliant.

TearFairy

Failsafe - im sure he does want to use our offer. But I also think the fact its advertised at X price but when people call or view are told its actually that much over the asking price maybe putting people off.

Pac2015

TearFairy wrote: »

Pac2015 that's just unreal, having the house on the market that long - unless they are renting it out or happy enough to live there for now is just crazy!

Look I am not taking it personally and I know it happens was just looking for advice as to whether people think its still possible we will get this house or should we walk away. Of course I know we have to decide for ourselves at the end of the day

pink_polkadot - not a terribly long discussion but a discussion none the less on a board that is set up to have this type of discussion on! What maybe 'simple' to some is very important to others - ie spending or trying to spend a few hundred thousand on a property in order to provide a home for our family. Of course though all you say is true, if he doesn't want to sell to us he won't

The house is empty and getting more into disrepair as the months go on they think they will get more money for it yet have it on at a certain price there is land with it and its in Dublin so they think they will get the prices from the boom for it obviously they paid too much problem is they wont as its not worth it anymore.

My advice to you would be to start looking around for another house, leave your offer on the table and say thats the max you will go and leave the ball in their court but make it clear you are now looking at other properties as the vendor is wasting your time.

TearFairy

We are looking at other properties and I have been in touch with the same EA about another viewing he has. He brought up this property and said he would be in touch regarding it, I just said yeah fine. I think maybe we will do/say nothing for now and just assume its a non runner!

FAILSAFE 00

TearFairy wrote: »

Failsafe - im sure he does want to use our offer. But I also think the fact its advertised at X price but when people call or view are told its actually that much over the asking price maybe putting people off.

The only bidder on the property and 27k over asking. The OP has more power than they think. The idea is to create the illusion of their only offer slowly melting away due to holding out. Go in with the mentality of "OMG not enough houses" you are going to get ****ed as a buyer.

Pac2015

TearFairy wrote: »

We are looking at other properties and I have been in touch with the same EA about another viewing he has. He brought up this property and said he would be in touch regarding it, I just said yeah fine. I think maybe we will do/say nothing for now and just assume its a non runner!

Good idea you dont want to miss out on other properties that might suit by holding out for this one.
You could put a time limit on the offer and say after that you will take it off the table and in the meantime look for something else that way you are not stressed waiting to hear back from the EA on this particular property.

DrPhilG

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

I'd get the ****s up the estate agent and the owner. Reduce the offer slightly 5k and explain that it will only get reduced further in x amount of time.

That's exactly what I was about to say!

Drop the offer by €5k per week. It's all well and good them thinking that the OP is the safe bet while they try to wangle something better elsewhere.

If that safe bet is steadily dwindling then it's time to shlt or get off the pot.

runawaybishop

TearFairy wrote: »

Lexi/ec Im not disputing he shouldn't get what he can for it. We have ONLY ever viewed properties within out budget. This house was within our budget, its wasting my time and others if they never intended selling for that price. l can only hope that the fact its still advertised at the asking price but when someone enquires or views is told its well over it that's what is and will continue to put people off!

You were bidding on it for a few weeks? So there is another bidder, the seller clearly sees that there is demand for his property and his asking price was too low (tactic or not). You really really need to take the emotion out of this, it is purely a business transaction and nonsense about "fairness" and comparing it to selling petrol has absolutely no place.

Decide what you are willing to pay and make that offer, stick a time limit of a week or 2 on it. Be prepared to walk away.

TearFairy

Runaway there were several bidders, the last one dropped off over a week ago. Im guess they walked away because the price got too high to a)be either to afford it or b) it gone up to more than they think its worth. Of course these things can go on for a few weeks, we bid on a Monday - it could be Tuesday or Wednesday before next bidder responds, another few days and we come back etc. That quickly adds up to a few weeks!

I dont think we are getting emotionally involved as such but jesus guys we are looking to spend a few hundred thousand on it, live in it for the rest of our lives hopefully (would not like to go through this process again!!) and I don't think its too much to ask for a bit of respect or fairness or whatever in the process. But its stressful and time consuming and I posted here to vent, get advice etc so cheers everyone

We never stopped looking at other houses, I am very aware that even sale agreed mean s++t until you have the keys in your hand