Tricolour burnings in Belfast - Should Irish government do more?

MakeEmLaugh

Do people think the Irish government should do more to prevent the burning of the Irish tricolour in Belfast and other parts of Northern Ireland?

Every year, around 12th July, hundreds of tricolours are burned.

As Bill Hicks once said, "a flag is just a piece of cloth", and perhaps laws shouldn't be enacted to stop people from burning this.

However, by never saying anything about flags being burned in Northern Ireland, isn't the Irish government contradicting itself?

According to an official document from the office of the Taoiseach...

The Irish Tricolour is intended to symbolise the inclusion and hoped-for union of the people of different traditions on this island, which is now expressed in the Constitution as the entitlement of every person born in Ireland to be part of the Irish nation (regardless of ethnic origin, religion or political conviction)

And, later in the same document...

The National Flag should never be defaced by placing slogans, logos, lettering or pictures of any kind on it.

Burning is a much more serious form of defacement.

desertcircus

Do what?

twinytwo

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

Do people think the Irish government should do more to prevent the burning of the Irish tricolour in Belfast and other parts of Northern Ireland?

Every year, around 12th July, hundreds of tricolours are burned.

As Bill Hicks once said, "a flag is just a piece of cloth", and perhaps laws shouldn't be enacted to stop people from burning this.

However, by never saying anything about flags being burned in Northern Ireland, isn't the Irish government contradicting itself?

According to an official document from the office of the Taoiseach...



And, later in the same document...



Burning is a much more serious form of defacement.

burned by a bunch of bigots... the irony is lost on them tbh. Leave them at it they are more to pitied than laughed at,

Galwayguy35

Most of them burn The Ivory Coast flag, they're too thick to notice they have it faced the wrong way.

MakeEmLaugh

desertcircus wrote: »

Do what?

Ask the British government to intervene to help stop Irish tricolours being burned.

Stheno

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

Ask the British government to intervene to help stop Irish tricolours being burned.

Seriously?

Iwasfrozen

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

Ask the British government to intervene to help stop Irish tricolours being burned.

They probably have asked.

MakeEmLaugh

desertcircus wrote: »

Do what?

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

Ask the British government to intervene to help stop Irish tricolours being burned.

Stheno wrote: »

Seriously?

So, in other words, you don't think the Irish government should do anything to stop the tricolour being burned in Northern Ireland every year.

Stheno

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

So, in other words, you don't think the Irish government should do anything to stop the tricolour being burned in Northern Ireland every year.

No to be honest. It would cause riots if they were to e.g. ask the PSNI to intervene when it was being done.

droidman123

The irish tricolour is defaced at every irish soccer game with stupid slogans and pub names scrawled across it,not much different imo.its disrespectful either way.

Chips Lovell

The Irish government reacting to it is exactly what would delight the flag burners.

It's like feeding the trolls.

Iwasfrozen

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

So, in other words, you don't think the Irish government should do anything to stop the tricolour being burned in Northern Ireland every year.

Nothing they can do. They've probably already asked the British govt to step up but that's not gonna happen.

MakeEmLaugh

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

They probably have asked.

I doubt they have.

The current Irish Minister for New Communities, Culture and Equalty recently posted a picture on Twitter of two chicken products in Tesco, one produced in Northern Ireland, the other in the Republic.

He then said

I have a big issue with branding in Tesco. Only one of these “Irish” products benefits our economy.

If a Government Minister is willing to complain about something as minor as that, I doubt he - or the rest of the Dáil - really see tricolours burned in Northern Ireland as 'their' problem.

The point is, as representatives of over four million Irish citizens in the Republic, should they do more to stop our nearest neighbour burning the national flag of Ireland?

El_Duderino 09

MakeEmLaugh wrote:

So, in other words, you don't think the Irish government should do anything to stop the tricolour being burned in Northern Ireland every year.

I hope that request finds its way to the appropriate place on the list of things that need to be sorted in NI.

strelok

we could use northern ireland as a training ground for the european reactionary syrian refugee strike force

once they show they can handle the flegs, they can be shipped over home to fight ISIS

Notavirus.exe

If I find out the names of the perpetrators, I'll burn their ****ing houses down.

Custardpi

On a scale of the indignities & humiliations visited upon the Irish Republic over the years the burning of a piece of cloth (which was probably made somewhere in Asia anyway) must come pretty far down the list.

Iwasfrozen

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

I doubt they have.

The current Irish Minister for New Communities, Culture and Equalty recently posted a picture on Twitter of two chicken products in Tesco, one produced in Northern Ireland, the other in the Republic.

He then said



If a Government Minister is willing to complain about something as minor as that, I doubt he - or the rest of the Dáil - really see tricolours burned in Northern Ireland as 'their' problem.

The point is, as representatives of over four million Irish citizens in the Republic, should they do more to stop our nearest neighbour burning the national flag of Ireland?

You would never know. You're assuming they didnt then complaining about it. Most likely they complained and were ignored.

Those stories are not at all related.

What do you want them to do?

Notavirus.exe

Custardpi wrote: »

On a scale of the indignities & humiliations visited upon the Irish Republic over the years the burning of a piece of cloth (which was probably made somewhere in Asia anyway) must come pretty far down the list.

I despise our flag. It represents the peace between us green people and those orange people. Peace no more.

The Randy Riverbeast

Not much can really be done. Letting them do it is a handy way of finding out who to avoid.

Iwasfrozen

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

I despise our flag. It represents the peace between us green people and those orange people. Peace no more.

Like a Swastika represents strength? And a fasces represents the Roman Senate?

rockatansky

Any attempt by the Irish Government to try and prevent the burning of what is essentially a colourful piece of cloth only draws further attention to these brain dead morons and feeds their craving for attention. They do it to try and provoke a reaction and this is exactly the type of response they only dream about. There numbers are getting smaller and smaller each year. Best just to ignore them.

ancapailldorcha

Thread moved to Northern Ireland forum.

K-9

Mod:

Notavirus.exe banned.

riffmongous

I think they should do something alright, fund a few courses for kids in loyalist areas, educate them a bit and give them some positive views of Ireland and it's flag before they grow up full of some ridiculous hatred. There are already similar programs out there

Edgarfrndly

It is a testament to our maturity that we don't go around, intentionally burning flags of other countries with intent to provoke a reaction. It doesn't say much for the loyalist community, that they go out of their way to buy these flags in their droves just to burn them.

Ultimately, we can't do anything. And we shouldn't. That would only give them the fuel that they need. Let them act like apes, and we'll get on with our business. Most Unionists in the north and in Britain are tired of the hardcore loyalist community, and want nothing to do with them.

K.Flyer

Edgarfrndly wrote: »

[...] It doesn't say much for the loyalist community, that they go out of their way to buy these flags in their droves just to burn them.[..]

They buy them by the truck load...

Fratton Fred

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

Do people think the Irish government should do more to prevent the burning of the Irish tricolour in Belfast and other parts of Northern Ireland?

Every year, around 12th July, hundreds of tricolours are burned.

As Bill Hicks once said, "a flag is just a piece of cloth", and perhaps laws shouldn't be enacted to stop people from burning this.

However, by never saying anything about flags being burned in Northern Ireland, isn't the Irish government contradicting itself?

According to an official document from the office of the Taoiseach...



And, later in the same document...



Burning is a much more serious form of defacement.

Should boards lead The way by banning any one who calls the Union flag the butcher's apron?

Nichard Dixon

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Should boards lead The way by banning any one who calls the Union flag the butcher's apron?

No, that is a fair description, given Britain's history of killing and maiming throughout the world.

On the main issue, the Irish government might usefully suggest that the British government show Irish flags no less respect than other ones. I have a strong suspicion that burning Irish flags is Belfast is not treated the same way as burning Pakistani flags in Bradford would, for instance.

Fratton Fred

Nichard Dixon wrote: »

No, that is a fair description, given Britain's history of killing and maiming throughout the world.

On the main issue, the Irish government might usefully suggest that the British government show Irish flags no less respect than other ones. I have a strong suspicion that burning Irish flags is Belfast is not treated the same way as burning Pakistani flags in Bradford would, for instance.

Hypocrisy is rife on these boards.

tipptom

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Hypocrisy is rife on these boards.

Yep,and any forum about Ireland that you can put up your negative anti Irish views and your usual cop out of"I don't support these racist, sectarian,bigoted people but.....".

Samaris

Nichard Dixon wrote: »

No, that is a fair description, given Britain's history of killing and maiming throughout the world.

On the main issue, the Irish government might usefully suggest that the British government show Irish flags no less respect than other ones. I have a strong suspicion that burning Irish flags is Belfast is not treated the same way as burning Pakistani flags in Bradford would, for instance.

It's a rather difficult thing to try put to one side of what has been, after all, a bitter and long-term civil war "Now you play nicely with our flag! But we're still to be allowed say things about yours, because after all, you and your ancestors are bad people."

Uhm.

And yes, burning Pakistani flags in Bradford would almost certainly be treated differently. Because it's a very different situation. One is basically a relatively few people, generally unsupported by their communities, starting sh1t on a minority community without a long history of violence and hate (beyond the odd bouts, which in comparison to a seventy year "war" is more neighbourly squabbles. The other is a symptom of a much more endemic problem and any mistakes or misunderstandings in how it's handled could actually result in bombs and shootings. Again.

No-one wants that. Thus the NI situation is taken and dealt with more carefully as the complex problem it is.

Fratton Fred

tipptom wrote: »

Yep,and any forum about Ireland that you can put up your negative anti Irish views and your usual cop out of"I don't support these racist, sectarian,bigoted people but.....".

You will, I presume, be providing details to back up your statement about my anti Irish views?

Or apologise, one of the two.

DarkyHughes

The vast majority of Loyalists who "celebrate" the 12th are a bunch of brain dead cheap cider drinking morons. Sure Irish people burnt British flags during the troubles but that was when tensions were high like after Bloody Sunday, The Hunger Strikers, Gibraltar etc... Loyalists do it because it's a part of their "culture" nothing bad has happened to them.

DarkyHughes

tipptom wrote: »

Yep,and any forum about Ireland that you can put up your negative anti Irish views and your usual cop out of"I don't support these racist, sectarian,bigoted people but.....".

I'm really starting to think he's Kevin Myers.+

Fratton Fred

DarkyHughes wrote: »

I'm really starting to think he's Kevin Myers.+

That's two threads (on this forum) that you've made stupid wild, baseless. allegations about me.

I will leave it up to the mods to make a judgment.

Jayop

It's only a ****ing flag. Who cares if a load of morons who obsess with such pointless symbols because their own culture is meaningless set fire to it.

K-9

Keep on topic please, next personal dig gets a ban.

ThemFifaGoals

I don't get the big deal about anyone burning a flag..they could be doing worse things...they probably went out & bought the flags so there just burning their own money..plus with them big bonfires there destroying their own area so if anything there doing more damage to themselves

Samaris

ThemFifaGoals wrote: »

I don't get the big deal about anyone burning a flag..they could be doing worse things...they probably went out & bought the flags so there just burning their own money..plus with them big bonfires there destroying their own area so if anything there doing more damage to themselves

It's a symbol and an insult. Actually, it's a pretty old insult at that. A sort of national method to bite one's thumb at one, sir!

In itself, it's a silly and pointless gesture. But in the sense of what the flag-burners are communicating, it is a pretty hateful gesture to make, despite that yes, at a strict and practical level, they are only harming themselves.

Fratton Fred

Fratton Fred wrote: »

You will, I presume, be providing details to back up your statement about my anti Irish views?

Or apologise, one of the two.

Still waiting.

Fratton Fred

tipptom wrote: »

Yep,and any forum about Ireland that you can put up your negative anti Irish views and your usual cop out of"I don't support these racist, sectarian,bigoted people but.....".

Mods: I have asked the poster to provide evidence to back up this wild and untrue accusation. As they have been unable to do so, please could it be deleted.

degsie

Flag manufactures should be mandated to use fire retardant materials only.

TOMASJ

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Should boards lead The way by banning any one who calls the Union flag the butcher's apron?

To a lot of Irish people that would be like asking to have Jews banned from boards for regarding the Swastika as a "butchers apron"

Metroboulot

Best thing to do is look on the flag burners as the total idiots they are and have enough self-confidence not to be even slightly annoyed by it.

They are making total fools of themselves and it looks absolutely horrendous in the international media and does terrible damage to the image of their own community.

If that's what they want to do, off the go!

Nichard Dixon

samaris wrote:

And yes, burning Pakistani flags in Bradford would almost certainly be treated differently. Because it's a very different situation. One is basically a relatively few people, generally unsupported by their communities, starting sh1t on a minority community without a long history of violence and hate (beyond the odd bouts, which in comparison to a seventy year "war" is more neighbourly squabbles. The other is a symptom of a much more endemic problem and any mistakes or misunderstandings in how it's handled could actually result in bombs and shootings. Again.

No-one wants that. Thus the NI situation is taken and dealt with more carefully as the complex problem it is.

So if you have a few prejudiced people, you apply the law to them. But when you have a lot of prejudiced people, whose prejudices are basically government policy, you leave them alone. As I said, this hypocrisy might be usefully exposed.

ThemFifaGoals wrote: »

I don't get the big deal about anyone burning a flag..they could be doing worse things...they probably went out & bought the flags so there just burning their own money..plus with them big bonfires there destroying their own area so if anything there doing more damage to themselves

A good deal of private property, looted from GAA clubs and the like, is burned on these fires. Is that OK with you too? Sure it is only a bit of craic.

Jayop

How would you get that from what he posted?

Smiles35

It's like around the Dublin suburbs at holloween, cat's, calor gas bottles, trollys. Fair few shaven headed monks with cans around after all the kids have gone home to bed that collected it.

Fratton Fred

TOMASJ wrote: »

To a lot of Irish people that would be like asking to have Jews banned from boards for regarding the Swastika as a "butchers apron"

Again, it's ok to disrespect their flag, but not for them to disrespect ours.

The hypocrisy never fails to show through.

danwhite88

The Irish Government should put a ban on the Manufacturing of the Irish flag and then they should become the sole distributor of the flags worldwide so when they buy the flags up north the government will make a huge profits.

Jayop

danwhite88 wrote: »

The Irish Government should put a ban on the Manufacturing of the Irish flag and then they should become the sole distributor of the flags worldwide so when they buy the flags up north the government will make a huge profits.

1) Ban flags
2) Make them yourself
3) ????
4) Profit!!!