35 days notice to break a fixed term lease?

Lester Freamon

Hi all,

Myself and my partner are currently tenants who are 6 months into a 12 month fixed term lease. Due to a unforeseen circumstances (change in jobs/offer that couldn't be refused), we now need to move again so we are looking to break our lease with minimum financial damage to us if at all possible. There doesn't seem to be any breakages clause in the lease. It is the standard 2004 Residential Tenancies Act.

Maybe I am incorrect, but am I reading the following link correctly by suggesting that we can break a fixed term lease by giving 35 days notice once the duration of our tenancy have been 6 months or more?

http://www.threshold.ie/advice/ending-a-tenancy/ending-your-tenancy/

Apologies if this seems a stupid question. I just have had so many different opinions from various people!

L1011

Lester Freamon wrote: »

Maybe I am incorrect

You are.

You can look to reassign the lease, however.

Lester Freamon

L1011 wrote: »

You are.

You can look to reassign the lease, however.

Thank you for the clarity.

So if in my shoes, you would give my landlord notice of leaving on the basis that you intend to sub-let for the remainder of the term?

Given that a 3 or 4 month term might not be attractive to renters, am I permitted to advertise the sub-let for 12 month term? I would assume the landlord would want this anyway?

testaccount123

Lester Freamon wrote: »

Thank you for the clarity.

So if in my shoes, you would give my landlord notice of leaving on the basis that you intend to sub-let for the remainder of the term?

Given that a 3 or 4 month term might not be attractive to renters, am I permitted to advertise the sub-let for 12 month term? I would assume the landlord would want this anyway?

Its not a sub-let, its lease reassignment. Tenancies work on 4 year cycles here, the 12 month term of the lease isnt relevant.

Lester Freamon

testaccount123 wrote: »

Its not a sub-let, its lease reassignment. Tenancies work on 4 year cycles here, the 12 month term of the lease isnt relevant.

Thank you. Could the landlord be difficult by suggesting the tenants for a reassigned lease must meet a certain criteria? Certainly if I was in his shoes, I'd be looking to ensure my existing tenants find suitable people to reassign the lease to? Is there any legal implications I would need to be aware of. I can't seem to spot anything in the 2004 Act.

testaccount123

Lester Freamon wrote: »

Thank you. Could the landlord be difficult by suggesting the tenants for a reassigned lease must meet a certain criteria? Certainly if I was in his shoes, I'd be looking to ensure my existing tenants find suitable people to reassign the lease to? Is there any legal implications I would need to be aware of. I can't seem to spot anything in the 2004 Act.

He can refuse your replacement but you are then free to terminate the lease anyway. As long as you dont drag in some homeless people as assignees you should be fine.

Lester Freamon

testaccount123 wrote: »

He can refuse your replacement but you are then free to terminate the lease anyway. As long as you dont drag in some homeless people as assignees you should be fine.

Thank you for all your help. My landlord isn't the most organised of people. My plan is to write to him requesting permission to re-assign. Where would I stand if he didn't bother to write back to me with formal permission? (a likely scenario!).

antoinolachtnai

If it is that sort of landlord I would say the easiest thing is to sit down with him and explain the situation and offer to help him find and get in a new tenant.

Lester Freamon

Hi folks,
Is a landlord legally permitted to deduct money from a tenants deposit for "expenses" (e.g. re-advertising, letting agent expenses) even if the landlord decided not to let a tenant reassign the lease.
The tenant gave the appropriate 35 days notice when moving out before the 12 month term was up.
I am not quite able to fully determine that point from here?

foggy_lad

Lester Freamon wrote: »

Hi folks,
Is a landlord legally permitted to deduct money from a tenants deposit for "expenses" (e.g. re-advertising, letting agent expenses) even if the landlord decided not to let a tenant reassign the lease.
The tenant gave the appropriate 35 days notice when moving out before the 12 month term was up.
I am not quite able to fully determine that point from here?

NO!

Once the tenant finds a person to reassign the lease to then it is up to the Landlord to accept that person or else pay for all re-advertising and other costs themselves!

Michael D Not Higgins

foggy_lad wrote: »

NO!

Once the tenant finds a person to reassign the lease to then it is up to the Landlord to accept that person or else pay for all re-advertising and other costs themselves!

It's better than that. The landlord refused to assign at all, so there's no obligation on the tenant at all following the notice period even without an assignee.

Black_Knight

foggy_lad wrote: »

NO!

Once the tenant finds a person to reassign the lease to then it is up to the Landlord to accept that person or else pay for all re-advertising and other costs themselves!

Did you read that correctly? OP saying the LL didnt allow him to re-assign the lease. And the LL is now billing the OP for advertising. To me that sounds right/fair, and in line with all ive read.

Expected expenses (excluding missing rent, cleaning, wear and tear etc) would be advertising fees, letting agent fees, and PRTB registration fee (threshold listed these to me).

Black_Knight

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

It's better than that. The landlord refused to assign at all, so there's no obligation on the tenant at all following the notice period even without an assignee.

No obligation from the OP to find a new tenant, and they're now all clear to break the lease, but im pretty sure the LL can bill them for expenses incurred by them breaking the lease (as I listed above).

Lester Freamon

Black_Knight wrote: »

No obligation from the OP to find a new tenant, and they're now all clear to break the lease, but im pretty sure the LL can bill them for expenses incurred by them breaking the lease (as I listed above).

I have spoken to the PRTB today and you are wrong. The landlord has no right to use deposit money for re-advertising fees if they didn't consent to a tenant reassigning the lease and the tenant gave appropriate notice on the move out day.

Michael D Not Higgins

Black_Knight wrote: »

No obligation from the OP to find a new tenant, and they're now all clear to break the lease, but im pretty sure the LL can bill them for expenses incurred by them breaking the lease (as I listed above).

Don't think so, the law allows two situations
1. The landlord agrees and the tenant gets a suitable tenant to assign the lease to.
2. The landlord disagrees and the tenant may give notice of termination.

In case 1 which the tenant proposes, the landlord has no costs. Sure if the tenant doesn't assign the lease and leaves, they are liable to the costs of reletting but in refusing the assignment, the landlord is incurring the costs himself not being burdened by the tenant's actions.

Black_Knight

Lester Freamon wrote: »

I have spoken to the PRTB today and you are wrong. The landlord has no right to use deposit money for re-advertising fees if they didn't consent to a tenant reassigning the lease and the tenant gave appropriate notice on the move out day.

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Don't think so, the law allows two situations
1. The landlord agrees and the tenant gets a suitable tenant to assign the lease to.
2. The landlord disagrees and the tenant may give notice of termination.

In case 1 which the tenant proposes, the landlord has no costs. Sure if the tenant doesn't assign the lease and leaves, they are liable to the costs of reletting but in refusing the assignment, the landlord is incurring the costs himself not being burdened by the tenant's actions.

Excellent to know. I'm in the middle of my own situation at the moment, and the LL hasn't given me permission to reassign the lease. Infact, they just ignored any contact I made with them.

Michael D Not Higgins

Black_Knight wrote: »

Excellent to know. I'm in the middle of my own situation at the moment, and the LL hasn't given me permission to reassign the lease. Infact, they just ignored any contact I made with them.

If they're ignoring you, make sure that if you send a notice of termination it has all the required information as per the RTA 2004*, keep a copy and send it registered post.

This will keep you covered if they try to play silly buggers later.

*http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2004/act/27/enacted/en/print#sec62

Black_Knight

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

If they're ignoring you, make sure that if you send a notice of termination it has all the required information as per the RTA 2004*, keep a copy and send it registered post.

This will keep you covered if they try to play silly buggers later.

*http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2004/act/27/enacted/en/print#sec62

Yup. Casually text them to inform them of our change in circumstances and having to break the contract (also, did they want me to find a replacment). A couple of unreturned text/calls later I decided to send them a registered letter stating we're leaving, which although they received it, still didnt provoke any communication.

EDIT: Only slip up, I didnt enquire about re-assigning in the actual letter. Darn

Michael D Not Higgins

Black_Knight wrote: »

Yup. Casually text them to inform them of our change in circumstances and having to break the contract (also, did they want me to find a replacment). A couple of unreturned text/calls later I decided to send them a registered letter stating we're leaving, which although they received it, still didnt provoke any communication.

EDIT: Only slip up, I didnt enquire about re-assigning in the actual letter. Darn

I wouldn't worry about it, just keep the texts that mention reassigning the lease just in case. Make sure to send another to enquire about your deposit and if you don't get any joy open a PRTB dispute to get it back.

Black_Knight

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

I wouldn't worry about it, just keep the texts that mention reassigning the lease just in case. Make sure to send another to enquire about your deposit and if when you don't get any joy open a PRTB dispute to get it back.

Think this is a bit more accurate.

Captain Flaps

I was always under the impression that a lease simply prevented either party from changing the terms (such as payment amount etc) but that signing a 12 month lease didn't necessarily force you to remain in the property for the full 12 months if you needed to move. That's what both my previous landlords (one private and a letting agency) told me when I asked for clarification.

Michael D Not Higgins

Captain Flaps wrote: »

I was always under the impression that a lease simply prevented either party from changing the terms (such as payment amount etc) but that signing a 12 month lease didn't necessarily force you to remain in the property for the full 12 months if you needed to move. That's what both my previous landlords (one private and a letting agency) told me when I asked for clarification.

No there are only certain conditions to break a fixed term lease without penalty. Some examples:
There's a break clause in the lease
Assigning the lease as discussed above
Landlord/tenant not meeting their obligations

Captain Flaps

Surely once you're 6 months into the lease your tenancy becomes a Part 4 and thus you can break the lease once you give enough notice?

Michael D Not Higgins

Captain Flaps wrote: »

Surely once you're 6 months into the lease your tenancy becomes a Part 4 and thus you can break the lease once you give enough notice?

Part 4 runs concurrently with the fixed term, it doesn't replace it until the term has run its course.

Edit: additionally in clause 58 of Part 5:

"...shall be construed as including a term enabling its termination by means of a notice of termination that complies with this Part (but, in the case of a tenancy that is for a fixed period, unless it provides otherwise, only where there has been a failure by the party in relation to whom the notice is served to comply with any obligations of the tenancy)."

Black_Knight

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Part 4 runs concurrently with the fixed term, it doesn't replace it until the term has run its course.

But a fixed term can be broken, whereby the tenant is either responsible for reassigning the lease/expenses incured due to not reassigning, or is not given permission to reassign which entitles them to just leave.

Easy to see how people get confused.

Captain Flaps

According to the PTRB site it does, unless I'm misreading it?

FIXED TERM TENANCIES AND PART 4
The existence of a fixed term tenancy does not preclude the operation of Part 4. Part 4 runs with a fixed term tenancy, so that the continuous occupation by a tenant under a fixed term tenancy for a period of 6 months, means the tenant shall, as in the normal course, become entitled to the protections of a Part 4 tenancy. In cases of fixed term tenancies however, the rights under Part 4 only apply to the extent that they benefit the tenant over and above the rights afforded to him or her under the terms of the fixed term tenancy.

...

A tenant can terminate a Part 4 tenancy at any time and without reason, provided he or she gives the requisite notice and complies with the provisions for termination of a tenancy under the Act, which includes the service of a valid notice of termination.

Going by that it seems that the issue is down to whatever notice is specified in the tenant's lease.

Michael D Not Higgins

Captain Flaps wrote: »

According to the PTRB site it does, unless I'm misreading it?



Going by that it seems that the issue is down to whatever notice is specified in the tenant's lease.

See RTA 2004 clause 58. If the lease doesn't allow for it, then you can't issue a notice of termination in line with Part 4.

Captain Flaps

Good to know. I'm about to renew my lease (been there 2 years at the end of the month), must have another read.

gaius c

Black_Knight wrote: »

Did you read that correctly? OP saying the LL didnt allow him to re-assign the lease. And the LL is now billing the OP for advertising. To me that sounds right/fair, and in line with all ive read.

Expected expenses (excluding missing rent, cleaning, wear and tear etc) would be advertising fees, letting agent fees, and PRTB registration fee (threshold listed these to me).

Disagree. He'd have to pay some of those on a standard re-let anyway.

athtrasna

Captain Flaps wrote: »

Good to know. I'm about to renew my lease (been there 2 years at the end of the month), must have another read.

No need to sign a new lease, you can inform your landlord that you are going to continue your tenancy as a part four tenancy.

Fkall

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

No there are only certain conditions to break a fixed term lease without penalty. Some examples:
There's a break clause in the lease
Assigning the lease as discussed above
Landlord/tenant not meeting their obligations

For the avoidance of doubt the assignment of a fixed term lease is at the descretition of the landlord.

L1011

Fkall wrote: »

For the avoidance of doubt the assignment of a fixed term lease is at the descretition of the landlord.

Landlord rejection of assignment is generally accepted to be an exit clause in and of itself.

Fkall

L1011 wrote: »

Landlord rejection of assignment is generally accepted to be an exit clause in and of itself.

It may be generally accepted but legally the tennat remains liable until the end of the fixed term unless the landlord agrees to the assignment.

Michael D Not Higgins

Fkall wrote: »

It may be generally accepted but legally the tennat remains liable until the end of the fixed term unless the landlord agrees to the assignment.

Wrong. It's not generally accepted, it's part of law. If the landlord doesn't agree to an assignment then the tenant can issue a notice of termination without any obligation to the fixed term.