Making it a requirment to have emergency pack in cars in Ireland

Cabaal

Or so it seems...

http://theliberal.ie/failing-to-carry-an-emergency-pack-in-your-car-may-cost-you-e50-in-fines-soon-enough/

According to documents released, Gardai would want to make it an offence not to carry the following equipment: working torch, breakdown triangle, high-visibility vest, first-aid kit and a fire extinguisher

Already carry everything but the fire extinguisher in my car since around 2009 so I don't see this as a big deal at all, works well in europe so why not here since we're so big on saying Europe is better for roads etc

Most of the contents are just common sense,

Alanstrainor

I reckon it's a good idea. I've been meaning to pick up a fire extinguisher for my car... Not that I expect it to burst into flames, but it just seems like a good thing to have!

listermint

Good idea.

Enforceable.

How?

Penalty Points?

And what road side checks ??

Toyotafanboi

i reckon it's a load of ****. if you don't have the common sense to carry some of those items now, then you won't have the common sense to use them when you need them anyway.

imagine getting points because the batteries in the torch in your boot had ran flat. ffs.

i carry an extinguisher, i think that's a decent idea in an old car. but the odds of me actually needing are slim to nil, but if i did need to use it, i would. the sort of character who doesn't see the need to bring an extinguisher is the same chap who wouldn't know how to use it if the situation came to life anyway.

i don't see too much point for any of the other items, but it would be a typically Irish for it to be a punishable offense not to carry a packet of plasters on board at all times.

jimgoose

No harm at all. I already carry have all that stuff, and more, in both cars.

Cabaal

listermint wrote: »

Good idea.

Enforceable.

How?

Penalty Points?

And what road side checks ??

I'd imagine its enforceable the same way it is in France etc, if you don't have it you get points or a fine.

thomas anderson.

Should be added to the NCT as a check

Cabaal

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

i don't see too much point for any of the other items, but it would be a typically Irish for it to be a punishable offense not to carry a packet of plasters on board at all times.

Typical Irish?...even though its already a requirement in two other European country's
http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/touring_tips/compulsory_equipment.pdf

demanufactured

More ways to grab money from the tax payer..

In fairness though it should be more of a common sense thing to have an emergency kit in the car... Along with a basic tool kit.

It should also be a license requirement to know how to change a wheel.. Even if your physically unable to do it.. Just know what do to.

dar83

Would these added items be deemed modifications by our insurers, or would it be a requirement for them to come as standard from the factory?


:pac:

Alkers

Agree with it in theory but I would be concerned that it gives the Gardai an excuse to look in your boot. NCT check would be a good idea.

Toyotafanboi

Cabaal wrote: »

Typical Irish?...even though its already a requirement in two other European country's
http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/touring_tips/compulsory_equipment.pdf

i understand a lot of places already do it. it's still a load of sack though imo, carrying around a boot full of crap. what will you do with them?

if i flip the car over a ditch, what will i be able to do with a plaster, an alcohol wipe and a plastic scissors?
if i get a puncture in the dark i'l need two hands for pretty much the whole procedure so i can't hold the torch anyway.
if i have to abandon the car, it already has reflectors built into the rear tail lights and built in hazard warning lights, so now i have to carry a warning reflector for my warning reflectors?

the extinguisher and the hi-viz, i can see a logic to.

if they wanted to do something that would genuinely benefit road safety, there should be stricter laws around tyres. there should be an approved list of manufacturers that can pass an NCT, that would be sensible, and people could spend the cost of a first aid kit and all that rubbish going for good tyres over eastern european plastic. that'd genuinely improve road safety and safe lives in no time.

ianobrien

The first aid kit is a joke. Most basic first aid kits are just for minor injuries. What I'm afraid of is "hero's" coming to an accident armed with a €4.99 first aid kit and knowledge from Grey's Anatomy and the like. If I'm injured (unless the car is burning) I'm going to wait for the professionals. Also, if you hand over your kit at the scene of an accident, could the injured party sue me as the kit was "insufficient causing aggravated injuries" and the like. Are they going to define what the kit contains as all I have to do is throw a band-aid and duck tape in a box and call it a first aid kit. I've marshalled at enough rallies to know (and you are always told) if there's an injury, leave it to the professionals. Only move the person if the car is burning and only stick your finger over a burst artery. Otherwise don't touch!

The rest are common sence and I have them already in the car. Most cars have dedicated storage places for the warning triangle, etc. My car even came with a mat for kneeling on to keep you clean when changing a tyre.

Atlantic Dawn

A post dated fine for non working headlights would be better use of resources.

meathstevie

ianobrien wrote: »

The first aid kit is a joke. Most basic first aid kits are just for minor injuries. What I'm afraid of is "hero's" coming to an accident armed with a €4.99 first aid kit and knowledge from Grey's Anatomy and the like. If I'm injured (unless the car is burning) I'm going to wait for the professionals. Also, if you hand over your kit at the scene of an accident, could the injured party sue me as the kit was "insufficient causing aggravated injuries" and the like. Are they going to define what the kit contains as all I have to do is throw a band-aid and duck tape in a box and call it a first aid kit. I've marshalled at enough rallies to know (and you are always told) if there's an injury, leave it to the professionals. Only move the person if the car is burning and only stick your finger over a burst artery. Otherwise don't touch!

The rest are common sence and I have them already in the car. Most cars have dedicated storage places for the warning triangle, etc. My car even came with a mat for kneeling on to keep you clean when changing a tyre.

That's the typical what if there's a solicitor's letter approach. There's a lot of minor and non life threatening injuries that can be if not treated adequately made a lot more comfortable with simple first aid skills.

There's no judge in the country who's going to award damages against anyone who applied first aid to the best and the limits of their ability. It's when clowns who think they're skilled overstep their knowledge and make things worse damages come into it.

By the way if you try stemming an arterial bleed by holding a finger on it I wish you good luck and a lot of tissues to clean yourself up after the casualty died.

Atlantic Dawn

Making it mandatory to have one of those lifeline tools that can break a window and cut seat belts would be a better option. Torches will have batterys that fail, fire extinguishers will have use by dates.

MarkAnthony

You'd have to be doing something pretty stupid for anyone to be successful in suing you. The act it self would have to be grossly negligent, probably causing damage where there was no need to act.

No one will ever be successfully sued in this country for performing CPR etc on a collapsed person. People die every day because someone was too frightened to act. The idiots that add the justice system to that worry need to be called on it. The majority of first aiders will tell you it's better to do something rather than nothing. There has been a public policy element to negligence pretty much since the bloody tort was invented.

Granted there are specific exceptions in regard to RTCs such as not removing a motorcyclists helmet unless absolutely necessary (such as vomiting) but who the bloody hell didn't know that one from about the age of 5? Another one that annoys me is the fact that people don't know defibrillators are designed to be used by untrained joe public.

Sorry for the rant but this sort of think really irks me.

As for the idea of carrying this stuff, I agree people with any common sense carry it. There is bugger all point making it law given most people don't even carry a spare bulb, know how to fit it or even worse can be arsed maintaining their cars (especially lights) and absolutely sod all is done about enforcement.

redlead

Another completely stupid rule that might make them a few more bucks (up there with novice plates). It just means that everyone will have to keep a load of junk in their boot that they'll never use. In fact I believe in France you need to have the hi vis jacket in the cabbin basically clogging up the passenger storage compartment.

Toyotafanboi

the only majorly useful thing you could carry in the car is a spare wheel and manufacturers have stopped giving them out :pac:

MarkAnthony

redlead wrote: »

Another completely stupid rule that might make them a few more bucks. It just means that everyone will have to keep a load of junk in their boot that they'll never use. In fact I believe in France you need to have the hi vis jacket in the cabbin basically clogging up the passenger storage compartment.

Yeah cos it won't fit over the seat like a coat... :rolleyes:

In France they actually drive, the speed limit on the motorways is 130 and even 80 year old grannies from the country actually get motoring rather than sitting in the middle lane doing 90. If you think the risk of getting knocked down on the motorway is there one would assume you'd think it's there as you go to the boot to get the jacket.

Granted I'd rather we do more effective things like teach people how to drive (and break down) on a motorway safely but until the Irish driving standard get's to that of the French I don't think we've room to comment frankly.

The Mulk

The Good Samaritan Act can protect you

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2011/act/23/section/4/enacted/en/html

51D.— (1) A good samaritan shall not be personally liable in negligence for any act done in an emergency when providing—

(a) assistance, advice or care to a person who is—

(i) in serious and imminent danger, or apparently in serious and imminent danger, of being injured or further injured,

(ii) injured or apparently injured, or

(iii) suffering, or apparently suffering, from an illness,


A First Aid kit is essential imo.

redlead

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Yeah cos it won't fit over the seat like a coat... :rolleyes:
.

So you want people to drive around with a hiz viz jacket hanging over their seat at all times just in the off chance of a once in ten years breakdown that also happens to be at night time. That is absolutely ludicrous :eek:
You're the ideal type of candidate the RSA is looking for :rolleyes:

Atlantic Dawn

The Mulk wrote: »

A First Aid kit is essential imo.

I don't know what first aid kit you have but any I have used or seen in the workplace will only cover basic cuts, pretty much useless in a major crash.

Toyotafanboi

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

I don't know what first aid kit you have but any I have used or seen in the workplace will only cover basic cuts, pretty much useless in a major crash.

that's kind of how i feel. packet of plasters, packet of alcohol wipes, cotton wool and a **** scissors. pretty much useless for anything other than a 6 year old childs grazed knee.

a kit with more advanced tools, while more useful is not really something i'd want an amateur coming at me with.

this video kinda sums it all up. the last 3 seconds of the video are crucial, watch it through.

The Mulk

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

I don't know what first aid kit you have but any I have used or seen in the workplace will only cover basic cuts, pretty much useless in a major crash.

A well stocked one could save someone's life, i suppose they're only as good as the person using them.
I've plenty of cotton gauze and bandages that could help stop a bleed, a couple of those foil blankets(small when wrapped up) and a couple of aspirin tablets, these would be extra to a standard kit but fit in handy enough.
I have a kit more for myself and the kids, rather than attending an accident, as my car is usually close by when they're playing in the park or matches etc.

keithclancy

ianobrien wrote: »

The first aid kit is a joke. Most basic first aid kits are just for minor injuries. What I'm afraid of is "hero's" coming to an accident armed with a €4.99 first aid kit and knowledge from Grey's Anatomy and the like. If I'm injured (unless the car is burning) I'm going to wait for the professionals. Also, if you hand over your kit at the scene of an accident, could the injured party sue me as the kit was "insufficient causing aggravated injuries" and the like. Are they going to define what the kit contains as all I have to do is throw a band-aid and duck tape in a box and call it a first aid kit. I've marshalled at enough rallies to know (and you are always told) if there's an injury, leave it to the professionals. Only move the person if the car is burning and only stick your finger over a burst artery. Otherwise don't touch!

The rest are common sence and I have them already in the car. Most cars have dedicated storage places for the warning triangle, etc. My car even came with a mat for kneeling on to keep you clean when changing a tyre.

In before the "Denis O'Brien owns first aid kit making company"

jimgoose

keithclancy wrote: »

In before the "Denis O'Brien owns first aid kit making company"

Let me just point out at this stage that he in fact doesn't, for a change. Ye Fords of Hal do a rather tidy mini first-aid kit for €8. I use them meself:

http://www.halfords.ie/motoring-travel/tools-diy/breakdown-essentials/halfords-essentials-compact-first-aid-kit

Atlantic Dawn

The Mulk wrote: »

A well stocked one could save someone's life, i suppose they're only as good as the person using them.
I've plenty of cotton gauze and bandages that could help stop a bleed, a couple of those foil blankets(small when wrapped up) and a couple of aspirin tablets, these would be extra to a standard kit but fit in handy enough.
I have a kit more for myself and the kids, rather than attending an accident, as my car is usually close by when they're playing in the park or matches etc.

For a well stocked one, combined with a good sized fire extinguisher you would be looking at needing a small trailer to carry all this safety gear in.

jimgoose

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

For a well stocked one, combined with a good sized fire extinguisher you would be looking at needing a small trailer to carry all this safety gear in.

I use a polystyrene box with a lid, measuring about 18''x12'', secured in a corner of the boot with a couple of bungee cords.

DakarVert

Working Torch, If you need to change a wheel or something you need both hands.
Most people will already have a torch on their phone.


Breakdown triangle, Don't really see the need for these? I have reflectors and emergency flashers.


High-Visibility vest, Yes 100%! Fairly obvious why.


First- aid kit, Why? Pretty pointless only for minor cuts. Plus you need some basic 1st aid knowledge. Pointless me having one as I'd faint at the first sight of blood.


Fire extinguisher, Yes!! Have one retrofitted to my BMW under the seat. And I had to use it when I set my other BMWs carpet on fire!


Making this all a penalty point offence though? Bollox to that!! Getting stopped at a checkpoint and getting out and showing all your items to the Guard.


The type of person to use any of the above will already have some in their car.

The Mulk

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

For a well stocked one, combined with a good sized fire extinguisher you would be looking at needing a small trailer to carry all this safety gear in.

It's not too bad, my wife usually has to walk everywhere though:pac:

I'm still a but wary about driving around with a fire extinguisher in the boot, i've a fear about it exploding if i was rear ended, although i'm sure this is impossible.

jimgoose

The Mulk wrote: »

...I'm still a but wary about driving around with a fire extinguisher in the boot, i've a fear about it exploding if i was rear ended, although i'm sure this is impossible.

CO2 extinguishers can explode on impact, yes. But the dry-powder type approved for automotive use can't.

Uncle Ben

redlead wrote: »

So you want people to drive around with a hiz viz jacket hanging over their seat at all times just in the off chance of a once in ten years breakdown that also happens to be at night time. That is absolutely ludicrous :eek:
You're the ideal type of candidate the RSA is looking for :rolleyes:

Hapes of cars here in the wesht with hi viz jackets flung across the back seat. When I lived in Holland it was mandatory to carry all that gear, however you'd normally only see the police over there stopping UK and Ireland regd cars on the motorway for those checks. If you had a Dutch or German car you'd be flashed through so long as car was taxed etc.

Cabaal

DakarVert wrote: »

Working Torch, If you need to change a wheel or something you need both hands.
.

You've never heard of a headtorch have you?

jimgoose

Cabaal wrote: »

You've never heard of a headtorch have you?

...or a lantern-style torch that can also sit on it's arse on the road, like a mini-lighthouse! :pac:

Toyotafanboi

another useful one actually would be to carry a live canary, in a small cage suspended from the rear view mirror. if the canary drops, you know you have a Co2 problem on your hands and you need to open a window or door, fast.

an excellent solution for a problem that is extremely rare

galwaytt

...funny how it's mandatory on the continent, but when you rent a car none of this stuff is in the car. Can't see Ryanair let me carrying a 1.5kg extinguisher though...........there again, maybe tourists are of a class of driver above........... :rolleyes:

galwaytt

jimgoose wrote: »

I use a polystyrene box with a lid, measuring about 18''x12'', secured in a corner of the boot with a couple of bungee cords.

...sorry, but the 'boot' in my 911 if stuffed full of cylinders. 6 of them. Won't be giving any of them up........ :pac: :pac:

jimgoose

galwaytt wrote: »

...sorry, but the 'boot' in my 911 if stuffed full of cylinders. 6 of them. Won't be giving any of them up........ :pac: :pac:

Ah, a Kerryman's Volkswagen - it's got a spare injin in the boot!

Joe 90

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

another useful one actually would be to carry a live canary, in a small cage suspended from the rear view mirror. if the canary drops, you know you have a Co2 problem on your hands and you need to open a window or door, fast.

an excellent solution for a problem that is extremely rare

I thought that canaries wre for CO. Dunno what bird you need for CO2

_Kaiser_

Oh we're back to this again eh? Are they still expecting people to use that €5 medkit to administer First Aid too? Will such people be trained?

As for torches... is that not why we have roadside assistance included in insurance policies? Speaking for myself I wouldn't be trying to manhandle a wheel off at the side of a motorway in the dark.

Hi-Viz vest and triangle I'd have no issue with but the rest just seems like more ridiculous rules to try and extort money from people TBH

Toyotafanboi

Joe 90 wrote: »

I thought that canaries wre for CO. Dunno what bird you need for CO2

According to wikipedia which is always right :pac: a canary is just fine for Co or Co2 and apparantly methane too!

booooring!

Don't agree with the guards having the power to check your boot. Should be able to get everything into a small case under one of the seats.

Triangle is definitely needed because what if someone can't get to you for two or three hours and the battery goes dead with no hazard lights. How is an old person expected to move the car of the centre of the road? Also on a freezing night it would be good to be able to keep the heating on for as long as possible if car is banjaxed. High vis jacket and torch definitely needed on country roads as sometimes it's pitch black when moon isn't out and might see another car for 6 hours on the same road. I've seen cars on fire, bales of hay on fire with tractors abd a trucks trailer on fire at the side of the road so yep a fire extinguisher would be good where people can help.
First aid kit definitely needed as well as if someone is cut its essential to apply pressure which can be done with bandages. If your living in the backend of Cork, Kerry, Tipperary, Galway, Mayo etc. Then yes it's a very very good idea to have all these items including a blanket.

Nichard Dixon

jimgoose wrote: »

...or a lantern-style torch that can also sit on it's arse on the road, like a mini-lighthouse! :pac:

Indeed, I bought a multi LED light in Aldi that does that job very well.

robtri

What sort of extinguisher will be needed? a small powder extinguisher won't put out anything really.. be useless against a fire

will it have to be inspected every year?

will training on how to use an extinguisher be compulsory

CIP4

I literally have all of that stuff listed in the first page in my car boot along with other important items. Are they 100% necessary maybe not but I'd rather have them and not need them than need them and not have them. I can't really see the issue with carrying them they don't exactly take up a lot of space.

moleyv

A fella from the AA on the rte news said a fire extinguisher was a bad idea.

He said their advice if there was a fire is get well away from the car and call the fire brigade.

I would think it should be a judgement call as to what a person could reasonably handle with a fire extinguisher. Although some people might try and act the hero when it isn't safe. Interesting argument.

iano.p

This is a great idea. I have all these things in the car the past 10 years I got a fire extinguisher off a lad that was checking the ones in work but he said himself if the car is going up let it go you wouldn't have enough to control a big fire.

rhino1

Its funny to hear people fighting a good idea.
I think all items specified have benefits beyond the immediate obvious.Mandatory first aid kits in cars might reduce the amount of idiots clogging up a&e and calling ambulances for minor injuries.Nobody is suggesting that people become amateur surgeons.
Would a first aid kit have to be defined somehow in law ?
It could probably be implemented for under 50 euro per car

Sh1tbag OToole

Will they ever stop coming up with silly little new rules for motorists to follow?

Someone close to the Guards is already gearing up to order a million fire extinguishers from China, or pre-assembled packs from China for 10 quid each or less, so if they sell them for 40-50 quid each that's a nice little windfall for the group behind this idea

robtri

maybe Sitserv are moving into the first aid and vehicle emergency kit packs... possibly selling them through Topaz.....